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#1: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-13 07:32:56 by Denny B

Just purchased a 2006 Dodge Caravan, anyone know who
makes the 3.3L engine? Also the tools required to work on
the vehicle, are they Metric or the standard N.American tools?

Thank you in advance
Denny B

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#2: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-13 15:31:36 by aarcuda69062

In article &lt;sawsj.19439$<a href="mailto:w57.17963&#64;edtnps90" target="_blank">w57.17963&#64;edtnps90</a>&gt;,
&quot;Denny B&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dmrbap&#64;telus.net" target="_blank">dmrbap&#64;telus.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Just purchased a 2006 Dodge Caravan, anyone know who
&gt; makes the 3.3L engine?

Chrysler

&gt; Also the tools required to work on
&gt; the vehicle, are they Metric or the standard N.American tools?

Everything is metric

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#3: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-13 23:24:24 by HLS

&quot;aarcuda69062&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nonelson&#64;sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">nonelson&#64;sbcglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:nonelson-844D1B.08313613022008&#64;news.chi.sbcglobal.net..." target="_blank">nonelson-844D1B.08313613022008&#64;news.chi.sbcglobal.net...</a>
&gt; In article &lt;sawsj.19439$<a href="mailto:w57.17963&#64;edtnps90" target="_blank">w57.17963&#64;edtnps90</a>&gt;,
&gt; &quot;Denny B&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dmrbap&#64;telus.net" target="_blank">dmrbap&#64;telus.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Just purchased a 2006 Dodge Caravan, anyone know who
&gt;&gt; makes the 3.3L engine?
&gt;
&gt; Chrysler

The OP might want to take a look at the following link for a little
history on the 3.3 L. It is apparently not a bad engine.
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html</a>

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#4: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-14 02:00:12 by no

&quot;Denny B&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dmrbap&#64;telus.net" target="_blank">dmrbap&#64;telus.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:sawsj.19439$<a href="mailto:w57.17963&#64;edtnps90..." target="_blank">w57.17963&#64;edtnps90...</a>
&gt; Just purchased a 2006 Dodge Caravan, anyone know who
&gt; makes the 3.3L engine? Also the tools required to work on
&gt; the vehicle, are they Metric or the standard N.American tools?
&gt;
&gt; Thank you in advance
&gt; Denny B
&gt;



All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for the past
25 years.

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#5: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-14 14:22:12 by Steve Austin

Bob M. wrote:
&gt; &quot;Denny B&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dmrbap&#64;telus.net" target="_blank">dmrbap&#64;telus.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:sawsj.19439$<a href="mailto:w57.17963&#64;edtnps90..." target="_blank">w57.17963&#64;edtnps90...</a>
&gt;&gt; Just purchased a 2006 Dodge Caravan, anyone know who
&gt;&gt; makes the 3.3L engine? Also the tools required to work on
&gt;&gt; the vehicle, are they Metric or the standard N.American tools?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thank you in advance
&gt;&gt; Denny B
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for the
&gt; past 25 years.

You don't work on Chevy trucks much, eh?

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#6: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-14 16:11:22 by cuhulin

Back in the 1960s or 1970s, either fed govt or somebody else was
wanting/trying to get everything in America on metric.I am used to good
old standard American measurements, I don't want to go metric.
cuhulin

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#7: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-14 19:58:21 by clifto

Bob M. wrote:
&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for the past
&gt; 25 years.

There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle having
some metric parts.

--
B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
campaign office is a Cuban flag with a picture of Che Guevara superimposed on
it.

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#8: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 03:46:47 by tegger

clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in
news:<a href="mailto:djfe85-edq.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com" target="_blank">djfe85-edq.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com</a>:

&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;
&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
&gt; having some metric parts.
&gt;



Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
at least the last 20 years.

In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
4&quot;) cubes.

With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
I'm sure.

--
Tegger

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#9: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 04:04:00 by Razor 616

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:46:47 +0000 (UTC), Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:tegger&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">tegger&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt;news:<a href="mailto:djfe85-edq.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com" target="_blank">djfe85-edq.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
&gt;&gt; having some metric parts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
&gt;at least the last 20 years.
&gt;
&gt;In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
&gt;4&quot;) cubes.
&gt;
&gt;With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
&gt;I'm sure.

Not exactly. I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
fasteners and bolts. So I bought one of those combination socket sets
to cover all the bases.

Nick

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#10: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 06:21:03 by clifto

Nicholas wrote:
&gt; Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:tegger&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">tegger&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
&gt;&gt;&gt; having some metric parts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
&gt;&gt;at least the last 20 years.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
&gt;&gt;4&quot;) cubes.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
&gt;&gt;I'm sure.
&gt;
&gt; Not exactly. I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
&gt; fasteners and bolts. So I bought one of those combination socket sets
&gt; to cover all the bases.

My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
years.

--
B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara
superimposed on it.

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#11: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 08:42:19 by Ray

Tegger wrote:
&gt; clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:djfe85-edq.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com" target="_blank">djfe85-edq.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
&gt;&gt; having some metric parts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
&gt; at least the last 20 years.
&gt;
&gt; In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
&gt; 4&quot;) cubes.
&gt;
&gt; With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
&gt; I'm sure.
&gt;

Yeah, but not all parts on all vehicles in the last 20 years are
designed in the last 20 years.
I own a 90 Beretta (3.1), a 90 Chevy 1/2 Ton (350) and an 01 Trans Am.
I've come across standard size bolts on both of the 90's. I'm trying to
remember exactly what (it's late), but I think it was either engine
related and/or rear axle related on the truck. Both engines on these
two vehicles are old enough designs to predate metric. I do know that
both shop manuals warn about the fact that they may use both measuring
systems.

There is a possibility that the parts on these vehicles that aren't
metric were replaced - on the Beretta, replacement balljoints and
tierods weren't metric. (That might also be brand specific too.. Moog
is say standard and TRW would be metric.)

I'm just a diy-er but generally buy tools in both SAE and metric. Even
if you own a 1970 Buick that's all standard, you might meet a cutie with
a 90 Beretta that's got a busted alternator... and eventually marry her. :)

Ray

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#12: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 09:42:23 by Razor 616

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:21:03 -0600, clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Nicholas wrote:
&gt;&gt; Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:tegger&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">tegger&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; having some metric parts.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
&gt;&gt;&gt;at least the last 20 years.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
&gt;&gt;&gt;4&quot;) cubes.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm sure.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Not exactly. I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
&gt;&gt; fasteners and bolts. So I bought one of those combination socket sets
&gt;&gt; to cover all the bases.
&gt;
&gt;My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
&gt;My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
&gt;the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
&gt;years.

Yep. It is a small PITA figuring out which a bolt head needs, but I'm
used to it by now. In some cases you can get away with either. For
example lug nuts: 3/4 inch vs 19mm. But on other stuff, smaller bolts
that can't afford that *tolerance,* you have to get the best fit you
can so as not to strip the bolt heads. Especially ones on the brake
system that can require high torque (caliper bracket bolts).
&gt;--
&gt;B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
&gt;his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
&gt;campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara
&gt;superimposed on it.

He went to Islamic Madrassas when he was a kid, so what do you expect?
He was Islamic. Don't know if he still is. But I won't hold that
against him. As long as he doesn't make me bow down to Mecca 4 times
a day and eat camel for supper.

Nick

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#13: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 14:03:40 by tegger

clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in
news:<a href="mailto:v2kf85-r3s.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com" target="_blank">v2kf85-r3s.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com</a>:

&gt; Nicholas wrote:
&gt;&gt; Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:tegger&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">tegger&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; vehicle having some metric parts.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in
&gt;&gt;&gt;Metric for at least the last 20 years.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm,
&gt;&gt;&gt;about 4&quot;) cubes.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that
&gt;&gt;&gt;long, I'm sure.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Not exactly. I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
&gt;&gt; fasteners and bolts. So I bought one of those combination socket
&gt;&gt; sets to cover all the bases.
&gt;
&gt; My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
&gt; My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
&gt; the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
&gt; years.
&gt;


You can tell I don't have much experience with domestic cars...

--
Tegger

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#14: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 22:18:22 by cuhulin

I once read somewhere years and years ago that Asian metrics are
different than European metrics.
cuhulin

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#15: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 22:36:38 by tegger

<a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-" target="_blank">17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-</a>
3256.bay.webtv.net:

&gt; I once read somewhere years and years ago that Asian metrics are
&gt; different than European metrics.
&gt; cuhulin
&gt;



That sounds just nutty enough to be possibly true...

And hey, I discovered a couple of years ago that my Japanese car has a
15/16&quot; bore master cylinder. It's even cast into the side of the barrel.

--
Tegger

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#16: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 22:46:40 by csr684NOT

Tegger wrote:
&gt; <a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-" target="_blank">17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-</a>
&gt; 3256.bay.webtv.net:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I once read somewhere years and years ago that Asian metrics are
&gt;&gt; different than European metrics.
&gt;&gt; cuhulin
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; That sounds just nutty enough to be possibly true...
&gt;
&gt; And hey, I discovered a couple of years ago that my Japanese car has a
&gt; 15/16&quot; bore master cylinder. It's even cast into the side of the barrel.
&gt;

There are a few different &quot;Metric Standards&quot;. You have the European
Industrial Standard and the Japanese Industrial Standard those are the
common automotive ones. Then if you go into aircraft you get into the
International Standard for Aircraft.
Plus there are also quite a few &quot;proprietary&quot; sizes and threads as well.
Then there are the real off beat ones where you get a metric threaded
stud/bolt that uses a common inch size for the head.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

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#17: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 22:52:56 by ratatouillerat

I have a Craftsman adjustable wrench that is both Metric and SAE -- On
one side it's clearly marked in inches and the other side is in
Millimeters &lt;g&gt;.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Pete

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#18: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-15 23:48:43 by cuhulin

Craftsman adjustable wrench (I have heard some people before call them a
Japanese socket set) that is both Metric and SAE.I have a big old pipe
wrench that will most anything.

A buddy of mine, one time he was making fun of his wife.He said she has
to use a pipe wrench to unroll a roll of toilet paper.
cuhulin

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#19: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 01:42:19 by Busman

Try owning a vintage Russian motorcycle (1952 M72). Even the local metric
fastener place is scared when I walk in!
Andy

&lt;<a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net..." target="_blank">17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net...</a>
&gt;I once read somewhere years and years ago that Asian metrics are
&gt; different than European metrics.
&gt; cuhulin
&gt;

Report this message

#20: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 02:42:46 by cuhulin

Russian Motorcycle? You can buy a Chinese copy of a pre-war BMW R-71
Motorcycle (with a sidecar) www.chang-jiang.com if you want one.

Heck, nowdays there are Chinese copies of everything.
cuhulin

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#21: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 04:00:27 by tegger

&quot;Steve W.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:fp5181$hsp$<a href="mailto:1&#64;aioe.org" target="_blank">1&#64;aioe.org</a>:

&gt; Tegger wrote:
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-" target="_blank">17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-</a>
&gt;&gt; 3256.bay.webtv.net:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I once read somewhere years and years ago that Asian metrics are
&gt;&gt;&gt; different than European metrics.
&gt;&gt;&gt; cuhulin
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; That sounds just nutty enough to be possibly true...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; And hey, I discovered a couple of years ago that my Japanese car has a
&gt;&gt; 15/16&quot; bore master cylinder. It's even cast into the side of the barrel.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; There are a few different &quot;Metric Standards&quot;. You have the European
&gt; Industrial Standard and the Japanese Industrial Standard those are the
&gt; common automotive ones.



What are the practical differences between those two (such that I'd notice
in everyday use)?

I Googled, but didn't come up with anything useful.





--
Tegger

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#22: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 09:13:16 by csr684NOT

Tegger wrote:
&gt; &quot;Steve W.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:fp5181$hsp$<a href="mailto:1&#64;aioe.org" target="_blank">1&#64;aioe.org</a>:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tegger wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-" target="_blank">17314-47B6019E-392&#64;storefull-</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; 3256.bay.webtv.net:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I once read somewhere years and years ago that Asian metrics are
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different than European metrics.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; cuhulin
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; That sounds just nutty enough to be possibly true...
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; And hey, I discovered a couple of years ago that my Japanese car has a
&gt;&gt;&gt; 15/16&quot; bore master cylinder. It's even cast into the side of the barrel.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; There are a few different &quot;Metric Standards&quot;. You have the European
&gt;&gt; Industrial Standard and the Japanese Industrial Standard those are the
&gt;&gt; common automotive ones.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; What are the practical differences between those two (such that I'd notice
&gt; in everyday use)?
&gt;
&gt; I Googled, but didn't come up with anything useful.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
The DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) EIS standards and the JIS share
a lot BUT there are more than a few gotchas in the mix. Depending on the
thread pitch itself the root diameters and thread wall angles may be
different. In practical use it means that you may have a M-8 bolt in JIS
and an M-8 hole in DIN and they will not go together. Things like head
bolts on German autos and bottom end parts are a couple of the OOPs
areas I have run into.

--
Steve W.

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#23: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 11:57:54 by Norm De Plume

<a href="mailto:cuhu...&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhu...&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote:
&gt; Back in the 1960s or 1970s, either fed govt or somebody else was
&gt; wanting/trying to get everything in America on metric.I am used to good
&gt; old standard American measurements, I don't want to go metric.
&gt; cuhulin

Does that mean you don't use sparkplugs? :)

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#24: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 12:03:49 by Norm De Plume

clifto wrote:
&gt; Nicholas wrote:
&gt; &gt; Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:tegger&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">tegger&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; having some metric parts.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
&gt; &gt;&gt;at least the last 20 years.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
&gt; &gt;&gt;4&quot;) cubes.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
&gt; &gt;&gt;I'm sure.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Not exactly. I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
&gt; &gt; fasteners and bolts. So I bought one of those combination socket sets
&gt; &gt; to cover all the bases.
&gt;
&gt; My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
&gt; My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
&gt; the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
&gt; years.
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
&gt; his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
&gt; campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara
&gt; superimposed on it.

You need to correct the factual errors in your postscript because I
saw Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. with his hand over his heart when the
national anthem played, and unlike when George Bush did it, he wasn't
playing with his left nipple.

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#25: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 12:13:23 by Norm De Plume

Nicholas wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:21:03 -0600, clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:clifto&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">clifto&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; &gt;B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
&gt; &gt;his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
&gt; &gt;campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara
&gt; &gt;superimposed on it.
&gt;
&gt; He went to Islamic Madrassas when he was a kid, so what do you expect?

But he didn't. It was a school where the boys and girls sat in the
same classrooms, something that never happens in a Madrassa.

&gt; He was Islamic.

His name and father are.

&gt; Don't know if he still is.

He never was. He's Methodist, just like Bush.

&gt; But I won't hold that against him.

You already did, in a cowardly, underhanded way, not the way a real
man would. But I won't hold that against you.

&gt; As long as he doesn't make me bow down to Mecca 4 times
&gt; a day and eat camel for supper.

The Bush family has been trying to do that to us for years and has
long been good buddies with the bin Ladens and the chief sponsor of
Islamic terrorism, the Saud family.

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#26: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 12:41:05 by Razor 616

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:13:23 -0800 (PST), Norm De Plume
&lt;<a href="mailto:norm_de_plume&#64;my-deja.com" target="_blank">norm_de_plume&#64;my-deja.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; But I won't hold that against him.
&gt;
&gt;You already did, in a cowardly, underhanded way, not the way a real
&gt;man would. But I won't hold that against you.

Enlighten me. Tell me what a Real Man is. After all these years, I'm
having a problem considering your proposal that I don't measure up.

Nick

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#27: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 13:48:42 by BobJ

<a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote:
&gt; Russian Motorcycle? You can buy a Chinese copy of a pre-war BMW R-71
&gt; Motorcycle (with a sidecar) www.chang-jiang.com if you want one.
&gt;
&gt; Heck, nowdays there are Chinese copies of everything.
&gt; cuhulin
&gt;

......and cheap copies , too. Even wheel and engine bearings

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#28: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 13:59:17 by kludge

Busman &lt;<a href="mailto:texaseitzHATESSPAM&#64;sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">texaseitzHATESSPAM&#64;sbcglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;Try owning a vintage Russian motorcycle (1952 M72). Even the local metric
&gt;fastener place is scared when I walk in!

I have worked on some Russian gear that was metric but with a different
thread profile than the standard M thread.

Kind of like 1/4-20 Whitworth...
--scott
--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#29: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 14:01:00 by kludge

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:16749-47B63F96-473&#64;storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net" target="_blank">16749-47B63F96-473&#64;storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net</a>&gt;,
&lt;<a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;Russian Motorcycle? You can buy a Chinese copy of a pre-war BMW R-71
&gt;Motorcycle (with a sidecar) www.chang-jiang.com if you want one.

You don't want one. That's actually a Chinese copy of the Russian Ural
copy of the BMW R-71. The Ural is better made than the Chinese one by
quite a bit... and it's not so well made although it IS a hell of a lot
of fun.
--scott

--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#30: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 14:29:56 by tegger

&quot;Steve W.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:fp65ut$p7c$<a href="mailto:1&#64;aioe.org" target="_blank">1&#64;aioe.org</a>:

&gt; Tegger wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Steve W.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">csr684NOT&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:fp5181$hsp$<a href="mailto:1&#64;aioe.org" target="_blank">1&#64;aioe.org</a>:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; There are a few different &quot;Metric Standards&quot;. You have the European
&gt;&gt;&gt; Industrial Standard and the Japanese Industrial Standard those are
&gt;&gt;&gt; the common automotive ones.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What are the practical differences between those two (such that I'd
&gt;&gt; notice in everyday use)?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I Googled, but didn't come up with anything useful.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt; The DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) EIS standards and the JIS
&gt; share a lot BUT there are more than a few gotchas in the mix.
&gt; Depending on the thread pitch itself the root diameters and thread
&gt; wall angles may be different. In practical use it means that you may
&gt; have a M-8 bolt in JIS and an M-8 hole in DIN and they will not go
&gt; together. Things like head bolts on German autos and bottom end parts
&gt; are a couple of the OOPs areas I have run into.
&gt;



I had NO idea, so thanks.

We have two Japanese cars, and Japanese is all I've ever owned (with the
exception of one Dodge Coronet).

Any Metric fasteners I've ever bought have come from all sorts of places,
from the auto dealer to auto parts jobbers to the corner hardware store.
I've never encountered any sort of problems with the fit of any bolt in any
hole. Nor have I ever been asked which standard of Metric fastener I
require.

I have a Metric tap and die set. The labeling does not specify the standard
to which the tools conform.

I'm thinking either most fasteners must be made to a single standard
(DIN?), or the standards are so similar you'd need to find yourself in
unusual situations to see any difference.

--
Tegger

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#31: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 14:34:14 by Comboverfish

On Feb 15, 7:03=A0am, Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:teg...&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">teg...&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:cli...&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">cli...&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote innews:<a href="mailto:v2kf85-r3s.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com" target="_blank">v2kf85-r3s.ln1&#64;remote.clifto.com</a>:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Nicholas wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:teg...&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">teg...&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;clifto &lt;<a href="mailto:cli...&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">cli...&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bob M. wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the past 25 years.
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; vehicle having some metric parts.
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Metric for at least the last 20 years.
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm,
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;about 4&quot;) cubes.
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;long, I'm sure.
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Not exactly. =A0I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
&gt; &gt;&gt; fasteners and bolts. =A0So I bought one of those combination socket
&gt; &gt;&gt; sets to cover all the bases.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
&gt; &gt; My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
&gt; &gt; the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
&gt; &gt; years.
&gt;
&gt; You can tell I don't have much experience with domestic cars...
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; Tegger

A good rule of thumb on domestic vehicles with mixed fasteners:

The bolts or studs that thread directly into the heads and block will
be standard, while all others will be metric.

They are slowly phasing in new designs/castings to take the place of
certain 30+ year old engines, so just be patient ;-)

Toyota MDT in MO

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#32: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 16:23:03 by kludge

Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:tegger&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">tegger&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt; The DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) EIS standards and the JIS
&gt;&gt; share a lot BUT there are more than a few gotchas in the mix.
&gt;&gt; Depending on the thread pitch itself the root diameters and thread
&gt;&gt; wall angles may be different. In practical use it means that you may
&gt;&gt; have a M-8 bolt in JIS and an M-8 hole in DIN and they will not go
&gt;&gt; together. Things like head bolts on German autos and bottom end parts
&gt;&gt; are a couple of the OOPs areas I have run into.
&gt;
&gt;I had NO idea, so thanks.
&gt;
&gt;We have two Japanese cars, and Japanese is all I've ever owned (with the
&gt;exception of one Dodge Coronet).
&gt;
&gt;Any Metric fasteners I've ever bought have come from all sorts of places,
&gt;from the auto dealer to auto parts jobbers to the corner hardware store.
&gt;I've never encountered any sort of problems with the fit of any bolt in any
&gt;hole. Nor have I ever been asked which standard of Metric fastener I
&gt;require.

Some of the thread profiles are the same, and the ones that aren't
are mostly close enough.

For most things, there's not a big deal, but if you have bolts that need
to be torqued precisely, it's a huge deal. This makes it a big deal for
the aircraft industry.

It's also a big deal on very small parts where the torque to seat them
and the torque to strip them are sometimes already very close. I encountered
that issue with M1.5 screw on the Studer (German) tape machines.

&gt;I have a Metric tap and die set. The labeling does not specify the standard
&gt;to which the tools conform.
&gt;
&gt;I'm thinking either most fasteners must be made to a single standard
&gt;(DIN?), or the standards are so similar you'd need to find yourself in
&gt;unusual situations to see any difference.

Yes, this is what makes it so insidious. Everything is mostly fine until
you find yourself in an unusual situation.

It't not QUITE as bad as Whitworth threads... a 1/4-20 Whitworth bolt will
fit into a 1/4-20NC nut but the 1/4-20NC bolt won't fit into a 1/4-20 Whitworth
nut. Or is it the other way around? Legions of folks ruined MG engine blocks
this way.
--scott
--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#33: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 16:39:10 by cuhulin

I have a lot of taps and dies and threading thingys.I bought them at
some pawn shops around here.Sometimes, there are some good tools for
sale in those pawn shops, you never know what you will find in there.

One of the pawn shops, about five miles me, you have to be carefull when
you walk through the door, there are all kinds of tools and tool boxes
on the floor, the shelves,everywhere.My favorite kind of pawn shop.
cuhulin

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#34: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 17:30:31 by tegger

Comboverfish &lt;<a href="mailto:comboverfish&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">comboverfish&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in news:ba725630-67c3-4f05-
<a href="mailto:849c-2200325e3b10&#64;n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">849c-2200325e3b10&#64;n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com</a>:


&gt;
&gt; A good rule of thumb on domestic vehicles with mixed fasteners:
&gt;
&gt; The bolts or studs that thread directly into the heads and block will
&gt; be standard, while all others will be metric.
&gt;
&gt; They are slowly phasing in new designs/castings to take the place of
&gt; certain 30+ year old engines, so just be patient ;-)
&gt;


According to an article I have in a British magazine...

In the 1950s, Ford of France sold the tooling for a particular vehicle
(called the &quot;Vedette&quot;) to Simca. Simca then produced the car as the Simca
Vedette.

The article says the car was identical in all ways to the Ford
design...except that Simca converted every single fastener from Imperial to
Metric. I wonder what that cost?

--
Tegger

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#35: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 23:33:16 by Comboverfish

On Feb 16, 9:23=A0am, <a href="mailto:klu...&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">klu...&#64;panix.com</a> (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

&gt; It't not QUITE as bad as Whitworth threads... a 1/4-20 Whitworth bolt will=

&gt; fit into a 1/4-20NC nut but the 1/4-20NC bolt won't fit into a 1/4-20 Whit=
worth
&gt; nut. =A0Or is it the other way around? =A0Legions of folks ruined MG engin=
e blocks
&gt; this way.

It would take so much less effort to simply let the MG blocks ruin
themselves...

Toyota MDT in MO

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#36: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-16 23:38:00 by Comboverfish

On Feb 16, 10:30=A0am, Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:teg...&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">teg...&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; According to an article I have in a British magazine...
&gt;
&gt; In the 1950s, Ford of France sold the tooling for a particular vehicle
&gt; (called the &quot;Vedette&quot;) to Simca. Simca then produced the car as the Simca
&gt; Vedette.

Does that rhyme with &quot;bidet&quot;? I sure hope so.

&gt; The article says the car was identical in all ways to the Ford
&gt; design...except that Simca converted every single fastener from Imperial t=
o
&gt; Metric. I wonder what that cost?

Please kill me if I ever have to work on a French built, Ford designed
car.

Toyota MDT in MO

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#37: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-17 00:17:00 by tegger

Comboverfish &lt;<a href="mailto:comboverfish&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">comboverfish&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote in
news:<a href="mailto:46c7886d-01a0-4a1e-a3d8-1c26d180bdbc&#64;q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">46c7886d-01a0-4a1e-a3d8-1c26d180bdbc&#64;q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com</a>:

&gt; On Feb 16, 10:30 am, Tegger &lt;<a href="mailto:teg...&#64;tegger.c0m" target="_blank">teg...&#64;tegger.c0m</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; According to an article I have in a British magazine...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In the 1950s, Ford of France sold the tooling for a particular
&gt;&gt; vehicle (called the &quot;Vedette&quot;) to Simca. Simca then produced the car
&gt;&gt; as the Simca Vedette.
&gt;
&gt; Does that rhyme with &quot;bidet&quot;? I sure hope so.



Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's pronounced vedd-ETT, like &quot;Corvette&quot;.
I think it means &quot;diplomat&quot;.


&gt;
&gt;&gt; The article says the car was identical in all ways to the Ford
&gt;&gt; design...except that Simca converted every single fastener from
&gt;&gt; Imperial to Metric. I wonder what that cost?
&gt;
&gt; Please kill me if I ever have to work on a French built, Ford designed
&gt; car.
&gt;


Would you like to be beat to death with a Metric, SAE, AF or Whitworth
wrench?

--
Tegger

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#38: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-17 02:55:27 by cuhulin

I used to work at a factory that manufactured auto and big heavy 18
wheeler and lawn mower batteries and every six months or so, we
manufactured a few pallet loads of six volt old timey looking batteries
for old MG cars.
cuhulin

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#39: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-17 20:03:46 by tegger

<a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote in news:<a href="mailto:21472-47B7940F-729&#64;storefull-" target="_blank">21472-47B7940F-729&#64;storefull-</a>
3252.bay.webtv.net:

&gt; I used to work at a factory that manufactured auto and big heavy 18
&gt; wheeler and lawn mower batteries and every six months or so, we
&gt; manufactured a few pallet loads of six volt old timey looking batteries
&gt; for old MG cars.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


6-volt tar-tops?

--
Tegger

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#40: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-18 00:45:53 by cuhulin

Yep, they were six volt batteries.One of the old cars I used to own in
the 1970s was a 1950 Ford six cylinder car, flat head engine with manual
shift transmission and overdrive.That was before I worked at the battery
factory, that old factory first opened up back around 1960 or 1961, I
think.The factory closed down about ten years ago, we were manufacturing
up to 14,000 batteries daily on two shifts.The factory ran five and a
half days each week, half a day on Saturdays.I went there and I bought
an eight volt battery for my 1950 Ford car.I had to adjust the regulator
with a pair of pliers so the eight volt battery could charge up
properly.That eight volt battery made the engine start up faster and the
head lights were brighter too.
cuhulin

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#41: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-19 01:57:11 by kludge

Comboverfish &lt;<a href="mailto:comboverfish&#64;yahoo.com" target="_blank">comboverfish&#64;yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;On Feb 16, 9:23=A0am, <a href="mailto:klu...&#64;panix.com" target="_blank">klu...&#64;panix.com</a> (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It't not QUITE as bad as Whitworth threads... a 1/4-20 Whitworth bolt will=
&gt;
&gt;&gt; fit into a 1/4-20NC nut but the 1/4-20NC bolt won't fit into a 1/4-20 Whit=
&gt;worth
&gt;&gt; nut. =A0Or is it the other way around? =A0Legions of folks ruined MG engin=
&gt;e blocks
&gt;&gt; this way.
&gt;
&gt;It would take so much less effort to simply let the MG blocks ruin
&gt;themselves...

Some folks claim they come already pre-ruined from the factory. But honestly,
the oil loss is a feature. The oil leaking from every corner of the block
soon coats the underside of the car and prevents rust.
--scott

--
&quot;C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;

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#42: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-19 02:23:18 by cuhulin

I was watching Junkyard Wars on tv yesterday.The two teams each cobbled
up some vehicles for a paintball contest.One of the teams dug out an old
Range Rover.The rear end of the frame on that Range Rover was so rotten,
they could pick that rotten frame metal off with their fingernails.
cuhulin

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#43: Re: Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

Posted on 2008-02-19 04:50:32 by Ray

<a href="mailto:cuhulin&#64;webtv.net" target="_blank">cuhulin&#64;webtv.net</a> wrote:
&gt; I was watching Junkyard Wars on tv yesterday.The two teams each cobbled
&gt; up some vehicles for a paintball contest.One of the teams dug out an old
&gt; Range Rover.The rear end of the frame on that Range Rover was so rotten,
&gt; they could pick that rotten frame metal off with their fingernails.
&gt; cuhulin
&gt;
sounds like my 86 Jimmy. When I parted it out, a guy wanted the doors
for the power window motors. Had a hard time getting the pin out of the
driver's door, so I just reefed it all the way open (like I said, he
wanted the guts not the skins) and the hinges peeled off the body. I
knew it was rusty, but I didn't realize I could pull the doors off...

Ray

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