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#1: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:35:21 by dlevy

Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
was a nice guy.

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#2: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:50:58 by WoodsChick

dlevy wrote:
> Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
> was a nice guy.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Mr. Levy.

My condolences to you, and to his family and friends.


Tami-

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#3: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 03:58:15 by dlevy

thanks.

&quot;WoodsChick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:TamiRowell&#64;msn.com" target="_blank">TamiRowell&#64;msn.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1153360258.537733.260720&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1153360258.537733.260720&#64;h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; dlevy wrote:
&gt;&gt; Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed.
&gt;&gt; He
&gt;&gt; was a nice guy.
&gt;
&gt; I'm really sorry to hear that, Mr. Levy.
&gt;
&gt; My condolences to you, and to his family and friends.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Tami-
&gt;

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#4: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 12:09:18 by scrapeNOTHANKS

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:35:21 -0500, &quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt;was a nice guy.

I'm very sorry to hear that, David.
My sincere condolensces.

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#5: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 14:02:09 by John

ouch, condolences all around

&quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:85Bvg.14090$<a href="mailto:Nt.3165&#64;bignews8.bellsouth.net..." target="_blank">Nt.3165&#64;bignews8.bellsouth.net...</a>
&gt; Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed.
&gt; He was a nice guy.
&gt;

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#6: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:01:34 by Wudsracer

&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:35:21 -0500, &quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt;was a nice guy.
&gt;



My condolences, David.
I am sorry for your loss.

Jim

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#7: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:12:02 by Joemomma

dlevy wrote:
&gt; Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt; was a nice guy.
&gt;
&gt;
Sorry to hear that!

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#8: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 17:20:53 by Rex McKinney

David sorry for your loss.

Rex McKinney

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#9: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:18:49 by DirtCrashr

&quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt;was a nice guy.
&gt;

sucks bad mojo-bummer dude.

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#10: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:23:37 by outofthe

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:35:21 -0500, &quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt;was a nice guy.
&gt;

I'm sorry to hear this. My condolences to you and his family.

Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#11: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-20 19:51:58 by moto

David,

please keep it safe up there.

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#12: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-21 08:36:59 by CrashTestDummy

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:35:21 -0500, &quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt;was a nice guy.
&gt;

My condolences also, David. The fellow that taught me (and a bunch
of other neighborhood kids) to ride, who routinely *took* us to ride,
and who was a friend of our family, also died in a plane crash. An
Aeronca Champ. He was the passenger:

<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp" target="_blank">http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp</a>

What the official report doesn't say is that although the PIC was a
student pilot with only 100 hours (and only 60 hours as PIC), he was
the son of the airport owner and was planning to eventually persue a
career as a commercial pilot. He grew up around planes, flying and the
airport. In other words, he wasn't your typical 18 year-old student
pilot.

The official report also doesn't note that his passenger -- our
family friend -- weighed close to 300 lbs at the time of the incident.
That probably had no bearing on the accident, but it certainly didn't
help matters.


CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#13: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-21 19:33:25 by DirtCrashr

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:36:59 GMT, CrashTestDummy
&lt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:35:21 -0500, &quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed. He
&gt;&gt;was a nice guy.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; My condolences also, David. The fellow that taught me (and a bunch
&gt;of other neighborhood kids) to ride, who routinely *took* us to ride,
&gt;and who was a friend of our family, also died in a plane crash. An
&gt;Aeronca Champ. He was the passenger:

Those are cool little planes, like a J3.

&gt;<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp" target="_blank">http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp</a>

It didn't pull-up, but I follow that it was an incident report.

&gt; What the official report doesn't say is that although the PIC was a
&gt;student pilot with only 100 hours (and only 60 hours as PIC), he was
&gt;the son of the airport owner and was planning to eventually persue a
&gt;career as a commercial pilot. He grew up around planes, flying and the
&gt;airport. In other words, he wasn't your typical 18 year-old student
&gt;pilot.
&gt;
&gt; The official report also doesn't note that his passenger -- our
&gt;family friend -- weighed close to 300 lbs at the time of the incident.
&gt;That probably had no bearing on the accident, but it certainly didn't
&gt;help matters.

In a plane that size it might, wouldn't it?

&gt;CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
&gt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

-k

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#14: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-21 20:52:13 by John

&quot;DirtCrashr&quot; &lt;
&gt; On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:36:59 GMT, CrashTestDummy
&gt;&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:35:21 -0500, &quot;dlevy&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:dlevy&#64;internets.com" target="_blank">dlevy&#64;internets.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Opened the paper this morning. My friend and flying instructor crashed.
&gt;&gt;&gt;He
&gt;&gt;&gt;was a nice guy.
&gt;&gt; My condolences also, David. The fellow that taught me (and a bunch
&gt;&gt;of other neighborhood kids) to ride, who routinely *took* us to ride,
&gt;&gt;and who was a friend of our family, also died in a plane crash. An
&gt;&gt;Aeronca Champ. He was the passenger:
&gt;
&gt; Those are cool little planes, like a J3.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp" target="_blank">http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp</a>
&gt;
&gt; It didn't pull-up, but I follow that it was an incident report.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; What the official report doesn't say is that although the PIC was a
&gt;&gt;student pilot with only 100 hours (and only 60 hours as PIC), he was
&gt;&gt;the son of the airport owner and was planning to eventually persue a
&gt;&gt;career as a commercial pilot. He grew up around planes, flying and the
&gt;&gt;airport. In other words, he wasn't your typical 18 year-old student
&gt;&gt;pilot.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The official report also doesn't note that his passenger -- our
&gt;&gt;family friend -- weighed close to 300 lbs at the time of the incident.
&gt;&gt;That probably had no bearing on the accident, but it certainly didn't
&gt;&gt;help matters.
&gt;
&gt; In a plane that size it might, wouldn't it?

7ac weigh about 750 lbs empty and have a useful
payload of 400-430 lbs, I rebuilt one from the frame
up they handle very similar to a J-3... the last time I
flew one was 20+ years ago, it's still a fond memory
john

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#15: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-21 23:32:25 by CrashTestDummy

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:52:13 GMT, &quot;john&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:john-----rmd---removedashes---&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">john-----rmd---removedashes---&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;&gt;&gt; The official report also doesn't note that his passenger -- our
&gt;&gt;&gt;family friend -- weighed close to 300 lbs at the time of the incident.
&gt;&gt;&gt;That probably had no bearing on the accident, but it certainly didn't
&gt;&gt;&gt;help matters.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In a plane that size it might, wouldn't it?
&gt;
&gt;7ac weigh about 750 lbs empty and have a useful
&gt;payload of 400-430 lbs... &lt;snip&gt;

If I had to guess, I'd say our friend weighed 275-280 at the time
of the incident. The pilot probably weighed 170-180. For a total
payload of 445-460lbs... definitely over John's &quot;useful payload&quot; range
for the 750lb airplane with the 75hp Continental engine., so weight
may have been a contributing factor. The official report (sorry the
link didn't work) is as follows:


NTSB Identification: SEA86FA155 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 31521.
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, July 04, 1986 in MULINO, OR
Aircraft: AERONCA 7AC, registration: N84463
Injuries: 2 Fatal.

THE PVT PLT HAD BEEN GIVING RIDES AROUND THE LOCAL AREA FOR ABOUT AN
HOUR. HE HAD JUST DROPPED OFF ONE PASSENGER AND PICKED UP ANOTHER. THE
ACFT TAXIED FROM THE RAMP TO THE RWY 30 AND MADE A NORMAL TAKEOFF.
DURING CROSSWIND TURN THE ENGINE STARTED TO MISS AND BACK FIRE. THE
ACFT MADE THE DOWNWIND TURN AT ABOUT 400 FT AGL AND A CURVING BASE TO
FINAL. THE ACFT STALLED AND CRASHED. WITNESSES REPORTED STRONG GUSTY
WINDS EAST AND SOUTH OF THE AIRPORT. EVIDENCE SUGGESTS THE ENGINE WAS
NOT OPERATING AT IMPACT; HOWEVER, POST ACCIDENT EXAM FAILED TO
DISCLOSE ANY FAILURE/ MALFUNCTION. THE ACFT WAS DESTROYED BY POST
IMPACT FIRE. ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS WERE CONDUCIVE TO CARBURETOR ICE
AT THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENT.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s) of this accident as follows:
REASON FOR OCCURRENCE UNDETERMINED
COMPENSATION FOR WIND CONDITIONS..NOT POSSIBLE..PILOT IN COMMAND
STALL..INADVERTENT..PILOT IN COMMAND


Contributing Factors

WEATHER CONDITION..UNFAVORABLE WIND



CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#16: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-22 00:40:14 by DirtCrashr

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:32:25 GMT, CrashTestDummy
&lt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; CARBURETOR ICE

Bad stuff in an airplane.

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#17: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-22 00:52:00 by DirtCrashr

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:52:13 GMT, &quot;john&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:john-----rmd---removedashes---&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">john-----rmd---removedashes---&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt; The official report also doesn't note that his passenger -- our
&gt;&gt;&gt;family friend -- weighed close to 300 lbs at the time of the incident.
&gt;&gt;&gt;That probably had no bearing on the accident, but it certainly didn't
&gt;&gt;&gt;help matters.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In a plane that size it might, wouldn't it?
&gt;
&gt;7ac weigh about 750 lbs empty and have a useful
&gt;payload of 400-430 lbs, I rebuilt one from the frame
&gt;up they handle very similar to a J-3... the last time I
&gt;flew one was 20+ years ago, it's still a fond memory
&gt;john


I have some old B&amp;W photos that my dad took from a J3 when he and a
budd flew around the Bay and the Gate Bridge, before the War.
Something like 60+ years ago, the plane was probably new at the time,
or maybe not.

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#18: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-22 00:54:33 by DirtCrashr

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:52:00 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:52:13 GMT, &quot;john&quot;
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:john-----rmd---removedashes---&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">john-----rmd---removedashes---&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The official report also doesn't note that his passenger -- our
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;family friend -- weighed close to 300 lbs at the time of the incident.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;That probably had no bearing on the accident, but it certainly didn't
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;help matters.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In a plane that size it might, wouldn't it?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;7ac weigh about 750 lbs empty and have a useful
&gt;&gt;payload of 400-430 lbs, I rebuilt one from the frame
&gt;&gt;up they handle very similar to a J-3... the last time I
&gt;&gt;flew one was 20+ years ago, it's still a fond memory
&gt;&gt;john
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;I have some old B&amp;W photos that my dad took from a J3 when he and a
&gt;budd flew around the Bay and the Gate Bridge, before the War.
&gt;Something like 60+ years ago, the plane was probably new at the time,
&gt;or maybe not.

Oops the roll says: '47 - ? So it was post-war.

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#19: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-22 03:39:14 by John

&quot;DirtCrashr&quot; &lt;
&gt;&gt;I have some old B&amp;W photos that my dad took from a J3 when he and a
&gt;&gt;budd flew around the Bay and the Gate Bridge, before the War.
&gt;&gt;Something like 60+ years ago, the plane was probably new at the time,
&gt;&gt;or maybe not.
&gt;
&gt; Oops the roll says: '47 - ? So it was post-war.

J-3 cubs went to metal spars in the wings in 46, prior
to that they were wooden. I knew the test pilot who
flew the 1st j-3 (he signed my cubs door) he also
designed a few features on the plane and invented
the hitch clip pin thing so they could hold stuff on
but get it off in a hurry without tools that are
required for a cotter keys. they used them to hold
the cowling on

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#20: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-22 06:53:39 by CrashTestDummy

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:40:14 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:32:25 GMT, CrashTestDummy
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; CARBURETOR ICE
&gt;
&gt;Bad stuff in an airplane.

Yeah, especially at 400' AGL on final approach turn with
unfavorable winds and an overloaded plane. I was little surprised they
didn't conclude carburetor icing as the culprit, but I guess they just
couldn't say for sure after the plane was destroyed by fire. But it
sure sounds as if carb icing was the root cause (and the accident was
compounded by several additional factors that, on their own, probably
wouldn't have been an issue). Remember, altitude is your friend.



CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#21: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-23 02:58:50 by DirtCrashr

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:39:14 GMT, &quot;john&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:john-rmd---&#64;gmail.com-remove-the-dashes" target="_blank">john-rmd---&#64;gmail.com-remove-the-dashes</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&quot;DirtCrashr&quot; &lt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I have some old B&amp;W photos that my dad took from a J3 when he and a
&gt;&gt;&gt;budd flew around the Bay and the Gate Bridge, before the War.
&gt;&gt;&gt;Something like 60+ years ago, the plane was probably new at the time,
&gt;&gt;&gt;or maybe not.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oops the roll says: '47 - ? So it was post-war.
&gt;
&gt;J-3 cubs went to metal spars in the wings in 46, prior
&gt;to that they were wooden. I knew the test pilot who
&gt;flew the 1st j-3 (he signed my cubs door) he also
&gt;designed a few features on the plane and invented
&gt;the hitch clip pin thing so they could hold stuff on
&gt;but get it off in a hurry without tools that are
&gt;required for a cotter keys. they used them to hold
&gt;the cowling on

I'm going to have to run those old negatives through my scanner and
post a few pics. To a website, link to pics - no binaries on RMD. ;-)

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#22: Re: suks

Posted on 2006-07-24 00:55:25 by OldFart

As a fellow pilot I could say that he died doing what he loved doing
but it still sucks. I grew up flying the same type aircraft as well as
the j3. My dad and I restored a 1940 Aeronca Chief and had lots of fun
with that plane. Flew to lots of antique flyins, Catalina Island, etc.
OF



DirtCrashr wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:39:14 GMT, &quot;john&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:john-rmd---&#64;gmail.com-remove-the-dashes" target="_blank">john-rmd---&#64;gmail.com-remove-the-dashes</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&quot;DirtCrashr&quot; &lt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;I have some old B&amp;W photos that my dad took from a J3 when he and a
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;budd flew around the Bay and the Gate Bridge, before the War.
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Something like 60+ years ago, the plane was probably new at the time,
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;or maybe not.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Oops the roll says: '47 - ? So it was post-war.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;J-3 cubs went to metal spars in the wings in 46, prior
&gt; &gt;to that they were wooden. I knew the test pilot who
&gt; &gt;flew the 1st j-3 (he signed my cubs door) he also
&gt; &gt;designed a few features on the plane and invented
&gt; &gt;the hitch clip pin thing so they could hold stuff on
&gt; &gt;but get it off in a hurry without tools that are
&gt; &gt;required for a cotter keys. they used them to hold
&gt; &gt;the cowling on
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to have to run those old negatives through my scanner and
&gt; post a few pics. To a website, link to pics - no binaries on RMD. ;-)

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