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#1: Honda 650 starting problems when very hot

Posted on 2006-07-20 18:11:07 by jackd

Hi: I own a 1981 Honda CB650 custom, 30,000 kms on it. one of my
problems is after riding for a while, I cannot shut it off and have it
restart again unless I wait about 5 -10 minutes. It barely cranks over
at all. After about 5 - 10 minutes, no problem. I have been told that
it is the coil and I have also been told to advance the timing a bit.


While I am at it, I just had all the upper gaskets changed and since
then (also when the bike is hot) I cannot sit at a red light and kick
it into neutral. It will always go into second.I was told by the
mechanics that they did not touch the bottom end of the motor. The only
thing I did was after I got it back, I changed the oil and did put too
much in but I siphoned most of the excess out. Could too much oil
cause this sort of a thing?

Any info or comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance




--
jackd

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#2: Re: Honda 650 starting problems when very hot

Posted on 2006-07-21 04:20:17 by MadDogR75

jackd wrote:
> Hi: I own a 1981 Honda CB650 custom, 30,000 kms on it. one of my
> problems is after riding for a while, I cannot shut it off and have it
> restart again unless I wait about 5 -10 minutes. It barely cranks over
> at all. After about 5 - 10 minutes, no problem. I have been told that
> it is the coil and I have also been told to advance the timing a bit.
>
>
> While I am at it, I just had all the upper gaskets changed and since
> then (also when the bike is hot) I cannot sit at a red light and kick
> it into neutral. It will always go into second.I was told by the
> mechanics that they did not touch the bottom end of the motor. The only
> thing I did was after I got it back, I changed the oil and did put too
> much in but I siphoned most of the excess out. Could too much oil
> cause this sort of a thing?
>
>
Too much oil - not unless there`s an awfull lot of it.
if it shows a reluctanct to crank, your problem is not in the ignition.
If it cranks easily when cold, suspect some sort of temperature
related friction. (probably serious).
Did the cranking problem start right after the gasket work???
Is your mechanic SURE that nothing got dropped into the lower
case??????
Check the oil pressure hot & cold????
MadDog

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#3: Re: Honda 650 starting problems when very hot

Posted on 2006-07-21 04:28:05 by Binder Dundat

jackd wrote:
> Hi: I own a 1981 Honda CB650 custom, 30,000 kms on it. one of my
> problems is after riding for a while, I cannot shut it off and have it
> restart again unless I wait about 5 -10 minutes.

Your carburetors are getting plugged up with gum and varnish deposited
by evaporating gasoline. Find a carburetor cleaner that contains
xylene, acetone, toluene, methyl alcohol and the like.

You can find such carburetor cleaners in aerosol cans in auto parts
stores. Don't buy anything that says its especially for fuel injection
systems, and don't buy anything that says it's carburetor dip.

The stuff you want will be clear and colorless.

Put 3 or 4 ounces of that stuff in a full tank and go for a slow ride
so the mixture has to go through the idle jets and clean them out.

Before you ride, find out where the idle speed knob is at, probably
between the #3 and #4 carbs on the right hand side. After you ride a
few miles, the idle speed will increase because the carburetor cleaner
is working and you'll need to turn the idle down.

> It barely cranks over at all. After about 5 - 10 minutes, no problem.

That's a symptom of dirty carburetors. The idle mixture is too lean to
start the engine when it's hot/

> I have been told that it is the coil and I have also been told to advance the timing
> a bit.

Whoever told you that you needed a new coil is full of shit. If you
needed a coil, the problem wouldn't just happen when you try to start
the engine when it's hot.

The idea of advancing the timing is really stupid. If you advance the
timing too far and the engine gets too hot from lean idle mixture, the
starter won't be able to crank the engine.
>
>
> While I am at it, I just had all the upper gaskets changed and since
> then (also when the bike is hot) I cannot sit at a red light and kick
> it into neutral. It will always go into second.I was told by the
> mechanics that they did not touch the bottom end of the motor.

OK, like I said, the engine is too hot because the carburetors are
dirty and you aren't getting enough gasoline in the idle mixture. The
heat expands all parts of the engine, including the clutch, you get
excessive clutch drag and when you try to shift into neutral, the
clutch doesn't disengage and you overshoot into second gear.

Clean out the carburetors as I described above.

You would be surprised at how much gasoline your engine wastes just to
stay cool and keep from melting the pistons. if you can find the idle
mixture screws (they are probably hidden underneath metal anti-tamper
plugs) and turn them counterclockwise 1/4 of a turn, you'll be amazed
at how much cooler yuor engine runs and how much more throttle response
you have.

> The only
> thing I did was after I got it back, I changed the oil and did put too
> much in but I siphoned most of the excess out. Could too much oil
> cause this sort of a thing?

Nope. Your engine would just slap out the excess oil and you might wind
up with oil in the air box and an oily air filter. You cannot clean the
oil out of a paper air filter.
If you get a paper air filter oiled, you have to buy a new one.

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#4: Re: Honda 650 starting problems when very hot

Posted on 2006-07-21 04:29:22 by RCFlyr

jackd wrote:
> Hi: I own a 1981 Honda CB650 custom, 30,000 kms on it. one of my
> problems is after riding for a while, I cannot shut it off and have it
> restart again unless I wait about 5 -10 minutes. It barely cranks over
> at all. After about 5 - 10 minutes, no problem. I have been told that
> it is the coil and I have also been told to advance the timing a bit.

Could be a weak Battery if the engine barely cranks over. No more cheap
batterys for me. Coil has nothing to do with the engine cranking over.
>
>
> While I am at it, I just had all the upper gaskets changed and since
> then (also when the bike is hot) I cannot sit at a red light and kick
> it into neutral. It will always go into second.I was told by the
> mechanics that they did not touch the bottom end of the motor. The only
> thing I did was after I got it back, I changed the oil and did put too
> much in but I siphoned most of the excess out. Could too much oil
> cause this sort of a thing?

Yep, did the same thing to my FT-500 Ascot. Couldn't find neutral until
I drained the excess
>
> Any info or comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
>
>
>
>

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#5: Re: Honda 650 starting problems when very hot

Posted on 2006-07-21 19:55:10 by fweddybear

> jackd wrote:
>> Hi: I own a 1981 Honda CB650 custom, 30,000 kms on it. one of my
>> problems is after riding for a while, I cannot shut it off and have it
>> restart again unless I wait about 5 -10 minutes. It barely cranks over
>> at all. After about 5 - 10 minutes, no problem. I have been told that
>> it is the coil and I have also been told to advance the timing a bit.
>>
>>
>> While I am at it, I just had all the upper gaskets changed and since
>> then (also when the bike is hot) I cannot sit at a red light and kick
>> it into neutral. It will always go into second.I was told by the
>> mechanics that they did not touch the bottom end of the motor. The only
>> thing I did was after I got it back, I changed the oil and did put too
>> much in but I siphoned most of the excess out. Could too much oil
>> cause this sort of a thing?
>>
>>
> Too much oil - not unless there`s an awfull lot of it.
> if it shows a reluctanct to crank, your problem is not in the ignition.
> If it cranks easily when cold, suspect some sort of temperature
> related friction. (probably serious).
> Did the cranking problem start right after the gasket work???
> Is your mechanic SURE that nothing got dropped into the lower
> case??????
> Check the oil pressure hot & cold????
> MadDog

I was thinking it could be a venting problem in your gas tank. Vapor
lock maybe.... Have you tried starting it with the gas cap off when its hot?

Fwed

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