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#1: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-16 20:40:16 by John Davies

I initially posted this in rec.guns, but I thought I might get some
useful replies in this group. Please - no crackpot jokes! This is
serious.

Last week I encountered THREE moose while riding in the wilds of north
Idaho over a period of only 90 minutes. The first was a brief glimpse
of a hairy brown butt escaping into the woods, but the other two were
prolonged, frustrating and definitely a little hazardous.

Both animals (a young calf and later, a full grown cow) loped off down
the trail and would NOT get off. I followed the calf (with periods of
waiting for her to make up her mind) for over three frustrating miles
before she finally took a turn at a trail intersection. The cow
trotted about three hundred yards before turnng off into a clearing
between the trees. The small (350 pounds?) calf was obviously panicked
and no real threat, but the cow (750 pounds?) was visibly ticked off
and was grunting aggressively. I stayed WAY back and was ready to flee
if she showed any sign of turning on me.

In both cases there was no way to detour around the animal, and
backtracking wasn't practical for various reasons, including remaining
fuel and daylight.

These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
able to do a quick u-turn to escape.

I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
making the battle a lot noisier.

I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
(in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
in place on my hip while riding.

Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.

Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
motorcycle.

Thanks very much. This really has me worried.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

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#2: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-16 21:20:37 by yosef

John,

What you describe is VERY common while snowmobiling in north Idaho.
I've never heard of a sledder injured by moose so I doubt you have
anything to worry about.

OTOH, I've never had that happen on a single track - I suspect most of
Idaho's single track are too narrow for moose's big feet.

A couple weeks ago the leader of a ride was nearly taken out by a moose
travelling perpendicular to the trail who narrowly missed smashing into
the bike.

-Joe Dowd

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#3: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-16 22:28:24 by John

there is right of way and there is right of weigh...
the moose defiantly complies with the later & not the former
a large cal gun might be of some help but I think you will find no matter
how good a quick draw you think you are unless you do this regularly it will
take considerably longer than you think... by the time you look up, a miffed
off moose can travel father than you would believe and you would have done
better pulling in the clutch stopping hostile forward movement and slightly
blipping the throttle to make you sound unappealing... moose really are not
afraid of humans so don't really count on that to work for you.
<a href="http://www.joe-ks.com/MultiMedia/MooseAttack.htm" target="_blank">http://www.joe-ks.com/MultiMedia/MooseAttack.htm</a>



&quot;John Davies&quot; &lt;jo
&gt;I initially posted this in rec.guns, but I thought I might get some
&gt; useful replies in this group. Please - no crackpot jokes! This is
&gt; serious.
&gt;
&gt; Last week I encountered THREE moose while riding in the wilds of north
&gt; Idaho over a period of only 90 minutes. The first was a brief glimpse
&gt; of a hairy brown butt escaping into the woods, but the other two were
&gt; prolonged, frustrating and definitely a little hazardous.
&gt;
&gt; Both animals (a young calf and later, a full grown cow) loped off down
&gt; the trail and would NOT get off. I followed the calf (with periods of
&gt; waiting for her to make up her mind) for over three frustrating miles
&gt; before she finally took a turn at a trail intersection. The cow
&gt; trotted about three hundred yards before turnng off into a clearing
&gt; between the trees. The small (350 pounds?) calf was obviously panicked
&gt; and no real threat, but the cow (750 pounds?) was visibly ticked off
&gt; and was grunting aggressively. I stayed WAY back and was ready to flee
&gt; if she showed any sign of turning on me.
&gt;
&gt; In both cases there was no way to detour around the animal, and
&gt; backtracking wasn't practical for various reasons, including remaining
&gt; fuel and daylight.
&gt;
&gt; These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
&gt; day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
&gt; with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
&gt; able to do a quick u-turn to escape.
&gt;
&gt; I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt; for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt; penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt; feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt; making the battle a lot noisier.
&gt;
&gt; I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
&gt; a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
&gt; hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
&gt; (in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
&gt; in place on my hip while riding.
&gt;
&gt; Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
&gt; moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.
&gt;
&gt; Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt; hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt; don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt; motorcycle.
&gt;
&gt; Thanks very much. This really has me worried.
&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA USA

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#4: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 00:03:11 by WoodsChick

I don't know much about moose. I've only seen one once on the trail. It
was huge and it was eating, and our presence didn't bother it in the
least.

Eric's cousin lives in Willow, AK, and she raises sled dogs and runs
the Iditarod every year. She says the most dangerous part of the race,
indeed just living in AK, is the moose. They stomp the dogs to death if
they can catch them. They're pretty aggressive too, from what she says.

My advice would be to just stay away from them, but I realize that
doesn't help you much. I'm interested in a solution, as well.


Tami-

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#5: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 00:03:11 by anothername

Although I am sure there have been a few injuries from an angry Moose
charging a human, it's a fairly rare event. I think you have a lot more
to worry about injury wise than that unlikely event. At any rate,
whatever gun you have is likely to be ok. I used to carry a flare gun
around when I went north in my floatplane. There is a video of some
Norwegians using a flare to scare off a bear (it was very effective)
and it doubles as an identification device for search and rescue. Also,
it isn't legally a gun and I didn't have to worry about conflicting
with gun laws.

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#6: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 00:03:11 by CrashTestDummy

I usually just saddle 'em up and ride 'em around.


CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#7: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 04:58:59 by DirtCrashr

&gt;I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt;for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt;penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt;feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt;making the battle a lot noisier.

For an anti-social encounter with a humanoid biped that seems like a
good choice. Not so sure about a quadruped.
I'd feel more comfortable with a Model 25 &quot;Mountain Gun.&quot;
<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>


&gt;I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
&gt;a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
&gt;hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
&gt;(in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
&gt;in place on my hip while riding.

Do you have the bells also? ;-)

&gt;Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
&gt;moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.

Pissibly, possibly - It depends on how effective a stream you can
direct at the moose, probably a cloud of pepper spray would only be
like a cloud to them.

&gt;Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt;hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt;don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt;motorcycle.

With the hammer down on an empty chamber is the preferred means.

&gt;Thanks very much. This really has me worried.
&gt;
&gt;John Davies
&gt;Spokane WA USA

Good luck! It's not often that one has a real *excuse* to purchase a
nice .45 colt revolver, a Model 25 or 625 (stainless) is a neat piece
and can be had for the price of three or four stators - depending on
stator.
<a href="http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm</a>

Report this message

#8: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 05:31:18 by John Davies

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:28:24 GMT, &quot;john&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:john-rmd---&#64;gmail.com-remove-the-dashes" target="_blank">john-rmd---&#64;gmail.com-remove-the-dashes</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;there is right of way and there is right of weigh...
&gt;the moose defiantly complies with the later &amp; not the former
&gt;a large cal gun might be of some help but I think you will find no matter
&gt;how good a quick draw you think you are unless you do this regularly it will
&gt;take considerably longer than you think... by the time you look up, a miffed
&gt;off moose can travel father than you would believe and you would have done
&gt;better pulling in the clutch stopping hostile forward movement and slightly
&gt;blipping the throttle to make you sound unappealing... moose really are not
&gt;afraid of humans so don't really count on that to work for you.
&gt;<a href="http://www.joe-ks.com/MultiMedia/MooseAttack.htm" target="_blank">http://www.joe-ks.com/MultiMedia/MooseAttack.htm</a>



I understand that these guys can be dangerous - at least they don't
have claws or long canines..... The video is scary, but at least with
my MX gear and helmet I would stand a better chance than that poor guy
did. I wonder if he survived....?

John Davies
Spokane WA

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#9: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 05:34:24 by John Davies

On 16 Jul 2006 15:46:57 -0700, &quot;WoodsChick&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:TamiRowell&#64;msn.com" target="_blank">TamiRowell&#64;msn.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;My advice would be to just stay away from them, but I realize that
&gt;doesn't help you much. I'm interested in a solution, as well.


I would be VERY happy to stay away from them. The problem is that when
you round the corner and find one standing right smack in front of you
there isn't very much you can do, if the road or trail is too narrow
for a quick u-turn and there are trees and dropoffs on the
shoulder....

John Davies
Spokane WA.

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#10: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 07:36:03 by CrashTestDummy

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:58:59 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&gt;I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt;&gt;for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt;&gt;penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt;&gt;feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt;&gt;making the battle a lot noisier.

Oh, I dunno... I certainly wouldn't *hunt* moose with a .40 S&amp;W
pistola... but I'll bet that if one charged you, and *if* you remained
calm enough to actually hit the thing, you might be surprised. The
moose most assuredly will be. And of course I'd recommend using his
surprise to either get the hell out of there or to further immobilize
the threat. In other words, don't just stand there waiting to see what
he does next.

You might also consider 180 gr Speer Lawman TMJ. I don't think
over-penetration will be much of an issue with hangun vs moose, but
the the TMJ may give you enough penetration to break a shoulder or
bust some other bones.

&gt;For an anti-social encounter with a humanoid biped that seems like a
&gt;good choice. Not so sure about a quadruped.
&gt;I'd feel more comfortable with a Model 25 &quot;Mountain Gun.&quot;
&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>

I love my .45, but it probably isn't much better than the Glock for
moose encounters. A little more powerful, but not incredibly so. If
you really wanna drop a moose in it's tracks, it's gonna take
something closer to this:

<a href="http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html" target="_blank">http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html</a>

Which, obviously, is a bit heavier than the Glock ;-&gt;

&gt;&gt;I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
&gt;&gt;a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
&gt;&gt;hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
&gt;&gt;(in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
&gt;&gt;in place on my hip while riding.
&gt;
&gt;Do you have the bells also? ;-)

&lt;G&gt;

&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
&gt;&gt;moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.
&gt;
&gt;Pissibly, possibly - It depends on how effective a stream you can
&gt;direct at the moose, probably a cloud of pepper spray would only be
&gt;like a cloud to them.

I'd rather try to shimmy up a tree or something. Because if moose
are like (domestic) bulls they'll close their eyes as they come in for
the antler toss.... possibly nullifying your efforts.

&gt;&gt;Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt;&gt;hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt;&gt;don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt;&gt;motorcycle.

Exactly. If I were you I'd continue to rely on the Glock, load it
with alternating rounds of 180 gr TMJ and JHP, and just hope for the
best. If all else fails lay down and pull the bike on top of you 'til
he leaves.

&gt;With the hammer down on an empty chamber is the preferred means.

Unless you have a Ruger with the transfer bar safety. It's
impossible for the firing pin to contact the primer without first
cocking a Vaquero. And since the act of cocking the gun also rotates
the cylinder, it'd be pointless to leave a chamber empty in the
Vaquero. Perfectly wise and accurate advice for old Colt Peacemakers
and such though, with the firing pin built into the hammer itself. Old
cowboys learned to carry on an empty chamber... or died before they
learned. ;-&gt;

&gt;Good luck! It's not often that one has a real *excuse* to purchase a
&gt;nice .45 colt revolver, a Model 25 or 625 (stainless) is a neat piece
&gt;and can be had for the price of three or four stators - depending on
&gt;stator.
&gt;<a href="http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm</a>

I agree that those are nice guns. And I'm definitely an advocate of
the .45 Colt chambering. Shooting my Vaquero is akin to shooting my
wife's .38 Special S&amp;W in terms of felt recoil, but it's significantly
more powerful. I'd love to try one of these mountain guns though. Lord
knows my Vaquero is too heavy for practical dirt bike carry.



CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#11: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 16:53:43 by John Davies

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:36:03 GMT, CrashTestDummy
&lt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; Oh, I dunno... I certainly wouldn't *hunt* moose with a .40 S&amp;W
&gt;pistola... but I'll bet that if one charged you, and *if* you remained
&gt;calm enough to actually hit the thing, you might be surprised. The
&gt;moose most assuredly will be. And of course I'd recommend using his
&gt;surprise to either get the hell out of there or to further immobilize
&gt;the threat. In other words, don't just stand there waiting to see what
&gt;he does next.
&gt;
&gt; You might also consider 180 gr Speer Lawman TMJ. I don't think
&gt;over-penetration will be much of an issue with hangun vs moose, but
&gt;the the TMJ may give you enough penetration to break a shoulder or
&gt;bust some other bones.
&gt;
The 180 gr JFP ammo I have is very similar to the Speer. I don't
remember the brand at the moment - I tossed the original box. It has a
moderate flat tip and it feeds very reliably. I'm not sure about the
ballistics - I think they are pretty standard .40S&amp;W. Do you think
there would be ANY point in developing a +P handload using similar
heavy bullets to get a little more muzzle energy? Or are there any
&quot;bear stopper&quot; loads available on the Internet for the .40? (Ha ha -
very improbable I think!) Do you know of any reloading data for this?

Is the truncated point (TMJ) better than the JFP for penetration of a
tough hide?

&gt;&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
&gt;&gt;&gt;moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Pissibly, possibly - It depends on how effective a stream you can
&gt;&gt;direct at the moose, probably a cloud of pepper spray would only be
&gt;&gt;like a cloud to them.
&gt;
&gt; I'd rather try to shimmy up a tree or something. Because if moose
&gt;are like (domestic) bulls they'll close their eyes as they come in for
&gt;the antler toss.... possibly nullifying your efforts.

HOPEFULLY I won't come face to face with a bull. If I do I will be
shaking so hard the whole subject will be a moot point. The video I
watched involved a lot of hoof stomping from the cow - she didn't
involve her upper body or head at all. And one breath of the spray
should result in some serious respiratory distress.

Of course the same can be said for me if the wind is blowig in my
direction..... at least I would be wearing goggles.

I sure don't like to think about being maced by a back-draft and THEN
being stomped for 30 seconds......
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt;&gt;&gt;hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt;&gt;&gt;don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt;&gt;&gt;motorcycle.
&gt;
&gt; Exactly. If I were you I'd continue to rely on the Glock, load it
&gt;with alternating rounds of 180 gr TMJ and JHP, and just hope for the
&gt;best. If all else fails lay down and pull the bike on top of you 'til
&gt;he leaves.

I hadn't considered the alternating stack. I think I would be happier
with a full 14 rounds of the heavy stuff - it would still do a number
on a human. I had thought about doing a wheelie and literally hurling
the bike at the charging moose. But that would leave me lying on my
back helpless if the bike didn't contact and stop the charge. Maybe
just lying down on the left (cold) side of the bike and pulling it
over my upper body would be best.

Ouch. It all sounds the stuff of nightmares.

Thanks for your thoughts.

John Davies
Spokane WA

John Davies
Spokane WA

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#12: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 17:13:58 by John

if it's a semi auto having too much kick back takes you off target
and decreases the ability to empty a clip as the object approaches
if you have one of those ranges that can have the target move
towards you.. see if you can draw and place 3 rounds in a foot circle
as it comes your way... try it with a hot load and a normal load...

i've found with my 45 i can place 4-5 out of 7 with normal to low loads
and only about 3-4 with a hotter load.... if you don't have a moving
range you can string a cable down range and put a piece of
thin plywood on a pair of eye hooks then have some one draw the
target towards you with a fishing pole or clothes line... this
really provides for some interesting shooting angles so you might
want to make sure the down range is &quot;very&quot; clear.

&quot;John Davies&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:johnedavies&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">johnedavies&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:178nb2p174pkthbhdurn0n505p89u6tlqd&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">178nb2p174pkthbhdurn0n505p89u6tlqd&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:36:03 GMT, CrashTestDummy
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Oh, I dunno... I certainly wouldn't *hunt* moose with a .40 S&amp;W
&gt;&gt;pistola... but I'll bet that if one charged you, and *if* you remained
&gt;&gt;calm enough to actually hit the thing, you might be surprised. The
&gt;&gt;moose most assuredly will be. And of course I'd recommend using his
&gt;&gt;surprise to either get the hell out of there or to further immobilize
&gt;&gt;the threat. In other words, don't just stand there waiting to see what
&gt;&gt;he does next.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; You might also consider 180 gr Speer Lawman TMJ. I don't think
&gt;&gt;over-penetration will be much of an issue with hangun vs moose, but
&gt;&gt;the the TMJ may give you enough penetration to break a shoulder or
&gt;&gt;bust some other bones.
&gt;&gt;
&gt; The 180 gr JFP ammo I have is very similar to the Speer. I don't
&gt; remember the brand at the moment - I tossed the original box. It has a
&gt; moderate flat tip and it feeds very reliably. I'm not sure about the
&gt; ballistics - I think they are pretty standard .40S&amp;W. Do you think
&gt; there would be ANY point in developing a +P handload using similar
&gt; heavy bullets to get a little more muzzle energy? Or are there any
&gt; &quot;bear stopper&quot; loads available on the Internet for the .40? (Ha ha -
&gt; very improbable I think!) Do you know of any reloading data for this?
&gt;
&gt; Is the truncated point (TMJ) better than the JFP for penetration of a
&gt; tough hide?
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Pissibly, possibly - It depends on how effective a stream you can
&gt;&gt;&gt;direct at the moose, probably a cloud of pepper spray would only be
&gt;&gt;&gt;like a cloud to them.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'd rather try to shimmy up a tree or something. Because if moose
&gt;&gt;are like (domestic) bulls they'll close their eyes as they come in for
&gt;&gt;the antler toss.... possibly nullifying your efforts.
&gt;
&gt; HOPEFULLY I won't come face to face with a bull. If I do I will be
&gt; shaking so hard the whole subject will be a moot point. The video I
&gt; watched involved a lot of hoof stomping from the cow - she didn't
&gt; involve her upper body or head at all. And one breath of the spray
&gt; should result in some serious respiratory distress.
&gt;
&gt; Of course the same can be said for me if the wind is blowig in my
&gt; direction..... at least I would be wearing goggles.
&gt;
&gt; I sure don't like to think about being maced by a back-draft and THEN
&gt; being stomped for 30 seconds......
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;motorcycle.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Exactly. If I were you I'd continue to rely on the Glock, load it
&gt;&gt;with alternating rounds of 180 gr TMJ and JHP, and just hope for the
&gt;&gt;best. If all else fails lay down and pull the bike on top of you 'til
&gt;&gt;he leaves.
&gt;
&gt; I hadn't considered the alternating stack. I think I would be happier
&gt; with a full 14 rounds of the heavy stuff - it would still do a number
&gt; on a human. I had thought about doing a wheelie and literally hurling
&gt; the bike at the charging moose. But that would leave me lying on my
&gt; back helpless if the bike didn't contact and stop the charge. Maybe
&gt; just lying down on the left (cold) side of the bike and pulling it
&gt; over my upper body would be best.
&gt;
&gt; Ouch. It all sounds the stuff of nightmares.
&gt;
&gt; Thanks for your thoughts.
&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA
&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA

Report this message

#13: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 17:31:36 by DirtCrashr

&gt; You might also consider 180 gr Speer Lawman TMJ. I don't think
&gt;over-penetration will be much of an issue with hangun vs moose, but
&gt;the the TMJ may give you enough penetration to break a shoulder or
&gt;bust some other bones.

That's the point of most big-critter hunting, isn't it? Breaking a
big interior bone and inducing a CNS shut-down. I've heard hard-cast
solids are supposed to do that.

&gt;&gt;For an anti-social encounter with a humanoid biped that seems like a
&gt;&gt;good choice. Not so sure about a quadruped.
&gt;&gt;I'd feel more comfortable with a Model 25 &quot;Mountain Gun.&quot;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt; I love my .45, but it probably isn't much better than the Glock for
&gt;moose encounters. A little more powerful, but not incredibly so. If
&gt;you really wanna drop a moose in it's tracks, it's gonna take
&gt;something closer to this:
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html" target="_blank">http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html</a>

Droo-oool!! Gibber-gibber!

&gt; Which, obviously, is a bit heavier than the Glock ;-&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
&gt;&gt;&gt;a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
&gt;&gt;&gt;hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
&gt;&gt;&gt;(in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
&gt;&gt;&gt;in place on my hip while riding.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Do you have the bells also? ;-)
&gt;
&gt; &lt;G&gt;

It was a bear-joke, I don't know any moose jokes apart from Rocky and
Bullwinkle.
&lt;snip&gt;

&gt; I'd rather try to shimmy up a tree or something. Because if moose
&gt;are like (domestic) bulls they'll close their eyes as they come in for
&gt;the antler toss.... possibly nullifying your efforts.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt;&gt;&gt;hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt;&gt;&gt;don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt;&gt;&gt;motorcycle.
&gt;
&gt; Exactly. If I were you I'd continue to rely on the Glock, load it
&gt;with alternating rounds of 180 gr TMJ and JHP, and just hope for the
&gt;best. If all else fails lay down and pull the bike on top of you 'til
&gt;he leaves.

That's how I have the house-gun loaded, gold-dots and FBI-load.

&gt;&gt;With the hammer down on an empty chamber is the preferred means.
&gt;
&gt; Unless you have a Ruger with the transfer bar safety. It's
&gt;impossible for the firing pin to contact the primer without first
&gt;cocking a Vaquero. And since the act of cocking the gun also rotates
&gt;the cylinder, it'd be pointless to leave a chamber empty in the
&gt;Vaquero. Perfectly wise and accurate advice for old Colt Peacemakers
&gt;and such though, with the firing pin built into the hammer itself. Old
&gt;cowboys learned to carry on an empty chamber... or died before they
&gt;learned. ;-&gt;

It's one of those just-in-case things when all your gun-stuff is
rebounding and old...
<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Colt/1909_New_Service_02.jpg" target="_blank"> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Co lt/1909_New_Service_02.jpg</a>


&gt;&gt;Good luck! It's not often that one has a real *excuse* to purchase a
&gt;&gt;nice .45 colt revolver, a Model 25 or 625 (stainless) is a neat piece
&gt;&gt;and can be had for the price of three or four stators - depending on
&gt;&gt;stator.
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt; I agree that those are nice guns. And I'm definitely an advocate of
&gt;the .45 Colt chambering. Shooting my Vaquero is akin to shooting my
&gt;wife's .38 Special S&amp;W in terms of felt recoil, but it's significantly
&gt;more powerful. I'd love to try one of these mountain guns though. Lord
&gt;knows my Vaquero is too heavy for practical dirt bike carry.

See, it's good to have excuses!!

&gt;CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
&gt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>


-keith

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#14: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 19:35:30 by CrashTestDummy

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:53:43 -0700, John Davies
&lt;<a href="mailto:johnedavies&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">johnedavies&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;The 180 gr JFP ammo I have is very similar to the Speer. I don't
&gt;remember the brand at the moment - I tossed the original box. It has a
&gt;moderate flat tip and it feeds very reliably. I'm not sure about the
&gt;ballistics - I think they are pretty standard .

My mistake John, I just saw the &quot;J&quot; in JFP and not the &quot;F.&quot; So I
thought you had just listed two different JHPs. I gotta pay more
attention.

&gt;Do you think there would be ANY point in developing a +P handload
&gt;using similar heavy bullets to get a little more muzzle energy? Or are
&gt;there any &quot;bear stopper&quot; loads available on the Internet for the .40?
&gt;(Ha ha - very improbable I think!) Do you know of any reloading data?

I think the first concern would be to research the chamber strength
of the Glock 23. Every gun has a practical limit to what pressures
it's able to tolerate... on some guns it's fairly high, but on others
it might be very low. And of course the cartridge size has an
influence too. For example, there's enough surrounding metal in a
..typical 22 revolver to use pretty much any hot load you could fashion
(not that that's a big interest).

*If* your Model 23 is up to hot loads, then yeah, you'll have a bit
more power with them. But as the other John points out, stiffer loads
(especially in a relatively lightweight auto like the Glock) can be
harder to manage in an emergency situation if you aren't used to them.

There is a plethora of reloading data available for the .40 S&amp;W.
Stay away from &quot;pet loads&quot; of people you don't know. Better to go with
known loads from modern reloading manuals and/or the gun magazines. I
don't know of any applicable reloads for your specific case, but it
shouldn't be too difficult to find some. Your local gun shop probably
even has some free reloading manuals.

&gt;Is the truncated point (TMJ) better than the JFP for penetration of a
&gt;tough hide?

Doubt it. At least not substantially so. But as I said I thought
you were talking about TMJ vs JHP. My bad.

&gt; And one breath of the spray should result in some serious respiratory
&gt;distress.
&gt;
&gt;Of course the same can be said for me if the wind is blowig in my
&gt;direction..... at least I would be wearing goggles.
&gt;
&gt;I sure don't like to think about being maced by a back-draft and THEN
&gt;being stomped for 30 seconds......

Hehehe, yeah, that's what I was thinking. Pepper spray is an equal
opportunity offender in confined spaces and/or windy conditions. ;-p

&gt;I hadn't considered the alternating stack. I think I would be happier
&gt;with a full 14 rounds of the heavy stuff - it would still do a number
&gt;on a human.

Yeah, you're probably right. The hollow points may encourage the
beast to bleed out quicker, but if *that's* your hope then it's no
longer an emergency situation.

If you have a suitable material to perform tests on you might try
both JFP/TMJ vs FMJ for penetration. I'm not a fan of FMJ though. You
need *some* destructive expansion.

&gt; I had thought about doing a wheelie and literally hurling
&gt;the bike at the charging moose. But that would leave me lying on my
&gt;back helpless if the bike didn't contact and stop the charge. Maybe
&gt;just lying down on the left (cold) side of the bike and pulling it
&gt;over my upper body would be best.

That's what I was thinking. I'm not sure the moose would even *try*
to step on the bike in that position, and if he did at least the
motorcycle would be taking the brunt of the exchange.

&gt;Ouch. It all sounds the stuff of nightmares.

I feel the same way about Grizzly bears. ;-&gt;

&gt;Thanks for your thoughts.

Very welcome, John. Good luck!


CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

Report this message

#15: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 19:49:21 by CrashTestDummy

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:31:36 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt; You might also consider 180 gr Speer Lawman TMJ. I don't think
&gt;&gt;over-penetration will be much of an issue with hangun vs moose, but
&gt;&gt;the the TMJ may give you enough penetration to break a shoulder or
&gt;&gt;bust some other bones.
&gt;
&gt;That's the point of most big-critter hunting, isn't it? Breaking a
&gt;big interior bone and inducing a CNS shut-down. I've heard hard-cast
&gt;solids are supposed to do that.

Yeah. But non-jacketed hard cast solids are tough on barrels. Of
course if you're using them infrequently (i.e.-- moose attacks),
that's probably a moot point. Good idea, Keith!

&gt;&gt; I love my .45, but it probably isn't much better than the Glock for
&gt;&gt;moose encounters. A little more powerful, but not incredibly so. If
&gt;&gt;you really wanna drop a moose in it's tracks, it's gonna take
&gt;&gt;something closer to this:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html" target="_blank">http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html</a>
&gt;
&gt;Droo-oool!! Gibber-gibber!

Yeah, that's a nice looking wheelgun, ain't it? :-)

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;(in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;in place on my hip while riding.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Do you have the bells also? ;-)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;G&gt;
&gt;
&gt;It was a bear-joke, I don't know any moose jokes apart from Rocky and
&gt;Bullwinkle.
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;

I laughed because I was watching some TLC or Animal Planet show
the other day about animal attacks and there was some bird watcher kid
roaming around Yellowstone who got attacked by a sow with cubs. They
listed one of his first mistakes as not having worn bells or made
enough noise to alert the bear to his presence before he surprised it.

I dunno about you, but putting bells in my shoe laces to wander the
wilderness just seems like a patently bad idea. Maybe I'm just not
educated.

&gt;That's how I have the house-gun loaded, gold-dots and FBI-load.

I could talk guns with Keith all day long. :-)

&gt;It's one of those just-in-case things when all your gun-stuff is
&gt;rebounding and old...
&gt;<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Colt/1909_New_Service_02.jpg" target="_blank"> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Co lt/1909_New_Service_02.jpg</a>

Nice. .38 long Colt?

Here's a page with some photos where you can see the hammer-mounted
firing pin on the New Service Colt:

<a href="http://www.horstheld.com/0-Colt-New-Service-early.htm" target="_blank">http://www.horstheld.com/0-Colt-New-Service-early.htm</a>

&gt;&gt;&gt;Good luck! It's not often that one has a real *excuse* to purchase a
&gt;&gt;&gt;nice .45 colt revolver, a Model 25 or 625 (stainless) is a neat piece
&gt;&gt;&gt;and can be had for the price of three or four stators - depending on
&gt;&gt;&gt;stator.
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I agree that those are nice guns. And I'm definitely an advocate of
&gt;&gt;the .45 Colt chambering. Shooting my Vaquero is akin to shooting my
&gt;&gt;wife's .38 Special S&amp;W in terms of felt recoil, but it's significantly
&gt;&gt;more powerful. I'd love to try one of these mountain guns though. Lord
&gt;&gt;knows my Vaquero is too heavy for practical dirt bike carry.
&gt;
&gt;See, it's good to have excuses!!

I have plenty of excuses... now if I just had more $$$. ;-p



CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

Report this message

#16: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 20:19:31 by outofthe

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:58:59 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&gt;I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt;&gt;for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt;&gt;penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt;&gt;feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt;&gt;making the battle a lot noisier.
&gt;
&gt;For an anti-social encounter with a humanoid biped that seems like a
&gt;good choice. Not so sure about a quadruped.
&gt;I'd feel more comfortable with a Model 25 &quot;Mountain Gun.&quot;
&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>

This looks good too in .460:

<a href="http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=44954&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm=Y" target="_blank"> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc tDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=449 54&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm= Y</a>

Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

Report this message

#17: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 22:56:09 by DirtCrashr

CrashTestDummy &lt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt;That's the point of most big-critter hunting, isn't it? Breaking a
&gt;&gt;big interior bone and inducing a CNS shut-down. I've heard hard-cast
&gt;&gt;solids are supposed to do that.
&gt;
&gt; Yeah. But non-jacketed hard cast solids are tough on barrels. Of
&gt;course if you're using them infrequently (i.e.-- moose attacks),
&gt;that's probably a moot point. Good idea, Keith!

I really don't know anything but what I've read in hunting and rifle
magazines, I've never hunted.

Don't Glocks have a polygonal rifling that is not compatible with lead
bullets anyhow? His JFP's would have to do.


&gt;&gt;&gt; I love my .45, but it probably isn't much better than the Glock for
&gt;&gt;&gt;moose encounters. A little more powerful, but not incredibly so. If
&gt;&gt;&gt;you really wanna drop a moose in it's tracks, it's gonna take
&gt;&gt;&gt;something closer to this:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html" target="_blank">http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-21717.html</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Droo-oool!! Gibber-gibber!
&gt;
&gt; Yeah, that's a nice looking wheelgun, ain't it? :-)

Yeh I like it!

&lt;snip&gt;

&gt;&gt;It was a bear-joke, I don't know any moose jokes apart from Rocky and
&gt;&gt;Bullwinkle.
&gt;&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I laughed because I was watching some TLC or Animal Planet show
&gt;the other day about animal attacks and there was some bird watcher kid
&gt;roaming around Yellowstone who got attacked by a sow with cubs. They
&gt;listed one of his first mistakes as not having worn bells or made
&gt;enough noise to alert the bear to his presence before he surprised it.
&gt;
&gt; I dunno about you, but putting bells in my shoe laces to wander the
&gt;wilderness just seems like a patently bad idea. Maybe I'm just not
&gt;educated.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;That's how I have the house-gun loaded, gold-dots and FBI-load.
&gt;
&gt; I could talk guns with Keith all day long. :-)
&gt;
&gt;&gt;It's one of those just-in-case things when all your gun-stuff is
&gt;&gt;rebounding and old...
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Colt/1909_New_Service_02.jpg" target="_blank"> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Co lt/1909_New_Service_02.jpg</a>
&gt;
&gt; Nice. .38 long Colt?

I wanted a good-shootin' sidearm to go with my Grandpa's 1900 Krag,
not a wussy one! ;-) The .38 was proving unsatisfactory in the
Philippines against the Moros.

&gt; Here's a page with some photos where you can see the hammer-mounted
&gt;firing pin on the New Service Colt:
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.horstheld.com/0-Colt-New-Service-early.htm" target="_blank">http://www.horstheld.com/0-Colt-New-Service-early.htm</a>

Like this? :-)
<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Colt/1909B_1000.jpg" target="_blank"> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Spodeley/Sportsman/Co lt/1909B_1000.jpg</a>

1909 New Service in .45 Long Colt. This is in the SN# range of the
first ones that went out to the Philippines to replace the .38 Colt.
It's had the latch replaced and condition makes it a shooter not a
collectible, so I shoot it.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Good luck! It's not often that one has a real *excuse* to purchase a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;nice .45 colt revolver, a Model 25 or 625 (stainless) is a neat piece
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;and can be had for the price of three or four stators - depending on
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;stator.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976650474.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I agree that those are nice guns. And I'm definitely an advocate of
&gt;&gt;&gt;the .45 Colt chambering. Shooting my Vaquero is akin to shooting my
&gt;&gt;&gt;wife's .38 Special S&amp;W in terms of felt recoil, but it's significantly
&gt;&gt;&gt;more powerful. I'd love to try one of these mountain guns though. Lord
&gt;&gt;&gt;knows my Vaquero is too heavy for practical dirt bike carry.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;See, it's good to have excuses!!
&gt;
&gt; I have plenty of excuses... now if I just had more $$$. ;-p

No kidding! That and more space!

&gt;
&gt;CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
&gt;<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

-keith

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#18: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 22:59:17 by DirtCrashr

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:19:31 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:58:59 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt;&gt;&gt;for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt;&gt;&gt;penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt;&gt;&gt;feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt;&gt;&gt;making the battle a lot noisier.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;For an anti-social encounter with a humanoid biped that seems like a
&gt;&gt;good choice. Not so sure about a quadruped.
&gt;&gt;I'd feel more comfortable with a Model 25 &quot;Mountain Gun.&quot;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;This looks good too in .460:
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=44954&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm=Y" target="_blank"> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc tDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=449 54&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm= Y</a>
&gt;
&gt;Mike

All that newfangled stuff is too pretty - it ain't right:
<a href="http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=585" target="_blank">http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=585</a>

;-)
Besides I'm cheap.

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#19: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-17 23:01:13 by John Davies

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:19:31 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;This looks good too in .460:
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=44954&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm=Y" target="_blank"> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc tDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=449 54&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm= Y</a>

All those big two-hander wheel guns are dandy for hiking along an
Alaskan riverbank. However, if I were able to carry one of those I
would just sling my 12 gage over my shoulder. The problem is where to
safely carry a heavy revolver on a motorcycle, and still be able to
get to it in a few seconds.

If anyone has come up with a good solution, please let me know. Maybe
a Cannonball Baker type holster rig mounted in the center of the
handlebar...? He reportedly killed a large number of dogs with his .38
on the first-ever coast to coast motorsickle ride.

<a href="http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html" target="_blank">http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html</a>

QUOTE
The third day of Baker's trip took him through Phoenix, where his
friends laughed at the &quot;pop-gun&quot; pistol he had brought along and they
replaced it with a Smith and Wesson .38 cal long. While riding through
the Indian reservations at Fort Apache he was greeted by a pack of
dogs that acted more like wolves and he was forced to &quot;drop two of
them in their tracks in order to get by.&quot;
UNQUOTE

John Davies
Spokane WA

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#20: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-18 01:40:49 by DirtCrashr

&gt;All those big two-hander wheel guns are dandy for hiking along an
&gt;Alaskan riverbank. However, if I were able to carry one of those I
&gt;would just sling my 12 gage over my shoulder. The problem is where to
&gt;safely carry a heavy revolver on a motorcycle, and still be able to
&gt;get to it in a few seconds.

Some of the hand-gun hunters I've read have expressed a liking for a
big, chest-worn shoulder holster with a flap over the grip and
retention straps and stuff.
Something you could attach to your roost protector perhaps...
<a href="http://www.usgalco.com/ViewMorePic.asp?ProductSKU=KK148H" target="_blank">http://www.usgalco.com/ViewMorePic.asp?ProductSKU=KK148H</a>


&gt;If anyone has come up with a good solution, please let me know. Maybe
&gt;a Cannonball Baker type holster rig mounted in the center of the
&gt;handlebar...? He reportedly killed a large number of dogs with his .38
&gt;on the first-ever coast to coast motorsickle ride.
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html" target="_blank">http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html</a>
&gt;
&gt;QUOTE
&gt;The third day of Baker's trip took him through Phoenix, where his
&gt;friends laughed at the &quot;pop-gun&quot; pistol he had brought along and they
&gt;replaced it with a Smith and Wesson .38 cal long. While riding through
&gt;the Indian reservations at Fort Apache he was greeted by a pack of
&gt;dogs that acted more like wolves and he was forced to &quot;drop two of
&gt;them in their tracks in order to get by.&quot;
&gt;UNQUOTE

IN the old days (turn of the Century) S&amp;W had a gun called the
lemon-squeezer also known as a bicycle gun for just that purpose, I
think it was a .32 - the squeeze part was a grip-safety.
<a href="http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsDTD_lemonsqueezers.htm" target="_blank">http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsDTD_lemonsqueezers.htm</a>


&gt;John Davies
&gt;Spokane WA

-k

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#21: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-18 02:09:40 by Joe Rooney

&quot;John Davies&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:johnedavies&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">johnedavies&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:6rtnb2t2q5bnfqfjkler956jug5je6f39r&#64;4ax.com..." target="_blank">6rtnb2t2q5bnfqfjkler956jug5je6f39r&#64;4ax.com...</a>
&gt; On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:19:31 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;This looks good too in .460:
&gt; &gt;
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalo" target="_blank"> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc tDisplay?catalo</a>
gId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=44954&amp;langId=- 1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;i
sFirearm=Y
&gt;
&gt; All those big two-hander wheel guns are dandy for hiking along an
&gt; Alaskan riverbank. However, if I were able to carry one of those I
&gt; would just sling my 12 gage over my shoulder. The problem is where to
&gt; safely carry a heavy revolver on a motorcycle, and still be able to
&gt; get to it in a few seconds.
&gt;
&gt; If anyone has come up with a good solution, please let me know. Maybe
&gt; a Cannonball Baker type holster rig mounted in the center of the
&gt; handlebar...? He reportedly killed a large number of dogs with his .38
&gt; on the first-ever coast to coast motorsickle ride.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html" target="_blank">http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html</a>
&gt;
&gt; QUOTE
&gt; The third day of Baker's trip took him through Phoenix, where his
&gt; friends laughed at the &quot;pop-gun&quot; pistol he had brought along and they
&gt; replaced it with a Smith and Wesson .38 cal long. While riding through
&gt; the Indian reservations at Fort Apache he was greeted by a pack of
&gt; dogs that acted more like wolves and he was forced to &quot;drop two of
&gt; them in their tracks in order to get by.&quot;
&gt; UNQUOTE
&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA

John,

What about the moose that overpowers you and takes your gun away? What
about making a bolo to toss about their legs to slow them?

It is hot!

Joe in Santa Clara

XL600R

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#22: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-18 08:00:49 by CrashTestDummy

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:09:40 -0700, &quot;Joe Rooney&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:ikerooneyat&#64;pcmagic.net" target="_blank">ikerooneyat&#64;pcmagic.net</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;What about the moose that overpowers you and takes your gun away? What
&gt;about making a bolo to toss about their legs to slow them?

If a moose takes my gun away before he contracts lead poisoning
then he's welcome to it as I make a hasty retreat ;-p


CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

Report this message

#23: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-18 14:34:58 by Wudsracer

I used to run the left strap of my overalls through the belt loop of
the holster for my .45 Combat Commander, when I carried it while
riding and making rounds after dark. It worked very well, and was
easily accessible.
Now that I wear the chest protector most of the time, I don't normally
carry, but figure that the same type of arrangement could be done by
attaching the holster to the chest protector.

Jim



&gt;On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:40:49 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&gt;All those big two-hander wheel guns are dandy for hiking along an
&gt;&gt;Alaskan riverbank. However, if I were able to carry one of those I
&gt;&gt;would just sling my 12 gage over my shoulder. The problem is where to
&gt;&gt;safely carry a heavy revolver on a motorcycle, and still be able to
&gt;&gt;get to it in a few seconds.
&gt;
&gt;Some of the hand-gun hunters I've read have expressed a liking for a
&gt;big, chest-worn shoulder holster with a flap over the grip and
&gt;retention straps and stuff.
&gt;Something you could attach to your roost protector perhaps...
&gt;<a href="http://www.usgalco.com/ViewMorePic.asp?ProductSKU=KK148H" target="_blank">http://www.usgalco.com/ViewMorePic.asp?ProductSKU=KK148H</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;If anyone has come up with a good solution, please let me know. Maybe
&gt;&gt;a Cannonball Baker type holster rig mounted in the center of the
&gt;&gt;handlebar...? He reportedly killed a large number of dogs with his .38
&gt;&gt;on the first-ever coast to coast motorsickle ride.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html" target="_blank">http://www.hdart.com/canbakstor.html</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;QUOTE
&gt;&gt;The third day of Baker's trip took him through Phoenix, where his
&gt;&gt;friends laughed at the &quot;pop-gun&quot; pistol he had brought along and they
&gt;&gt;replaced it with a Smith and Wesson .38 cal long. While riding through
&gt;&gt;the Indian reservations at Fort Apache he was greeted by a pack of
&gt;&gt;dogs that acted more like wolves and he was forced to &quot;drop two of
&gt;&gt;them in their tracks in order to get by.&quot;
&gt;&gt;UNQUOTE
&gt;
&gt;IN the old days (turn of the Century) S&amp;W had a gun called the
&gt;lemon-squeezer also known as a bicycle gun for just that purpose, I
&gt;think it was a .32 - the squeeze part was a grip-safety.
&gt;<a href="http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsDTD_lemonsqueezers.htm" target="_blank">http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsDTD_lemonsqueezers.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;John Davies
&gt;&gt;Spokane WA
&gt;
&gt;-k

Report this message

#24: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-19 16:37:15 by outofthe

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:59:17 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:19:31 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:58:59 -0700, DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;making the battle a lot noisier.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;For an anti-social encounter with a humanoid biped that seems like a
&gt;&gt;&gt;good choice. Not so sure about a quadruped.
&gt;&gt;&gt;I'd feel more comfortable with a Model 25 &quot;Mountain Gun.&quot;
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunblast.com/SW-25Mountain.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;This looks good too in .460:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=44954&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm=Y" target="_blank"> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc tDisplay?catalogId=11101&amp;storeId=10001&amp;productId=449 54&amp;langId=-1&amp;parent_category_rn=15707&amp;isFirearm= Y</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Mike
&gt;
&gt;All that newfangled stuff is too pretty - it ain't right:
&gt;<a href="http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=585" target="_blank">http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=585</a>
&gt;
&gt;;-)
&gt;Besides I'm cheap.

You have one of those in your belt, you just *want* to stumble upon
Archduke Ferdinand....

Mike



--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#25: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-19 19:33:08 by DirtCrashr

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:37:15 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt;All that newfangled stuff is too pretty - it ain't right:
&gt;&gt;<a href="http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=585" target="_blank">http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=585</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;;-)
&gt;&gt;Besides I'm cheap.
&gt;
&gt;You have one of those in your belt, you just *want* to stumble upon
&gt;Archduke Ferdinand....

He had a FN Model 1910 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1910" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1910</a>


Only because he's got a serious hottie on his arm, Sophie the fourth
daughter of Count Bohuslaw Chotek von Chotkova und Wognin,
<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Sophiechotek1868-2.jpg" target="_blank"> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Sophiecho tek1868-2.jpg</a>
and Franz-Ferdinand is an old coot.

Besides you get to wear a sash and a Fez and a goofy little moustache.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Princip_arrested.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Princip_arrested.jpg</a>


&gt;Mike

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#26: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-19 22:16:42 by Ken Shackleton

John Davies wrote:
&gt; I initially posted this in rec.guns, but I thought I might get some
&gt; useful replies in this group. Please - no crackpot jokes! This is
&gt; serious.
&gt;
&gt; Last week I encountered THREE moose while riding in the wilds of north
&gt; Idaho over a period of only 90 minutes. The first was a brief glimpse
&gt; of a hairy brown butt escaping into the woods, but the other two were
&gt; prolonged, frustrating and definitely a little hazardous.
&gt;
&gt; Both animals (a young calf and later, a full grown cow) loped off down
&gt; the trail and would NOT get off. I followed the calf (with periods of
&gt; waiting for her to make up her mind) for over three frustrating miles
&gt; before she finally took a turn at a trail intersection. The cow
&gt; trotted about three hundred yards before turnng off into a clearing
&gt; between the trees. The small (350 pounds?) calf was obviously panicked
&gt; and no real threat, but the cow (750 pounds?) was visibly ticked off
&gt; and was grunting aggressively. I stayed WAY back and was ready to flee
&gt; if she showed any sign of turning on me.
&gt;
&gt; In both cases there was no way to detour around the animal, and
&gt; backtracking wasn't practical for various reasons, including remaining
&gt; fuel and daylight.
&gt;
&gt; These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
&gt; day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
&gt; with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
&gt; able to do a quick u-turn to escape.

Here's a thought......stop, shut off the bike, and wait for the moose
to leave. The only reason she was getting pissed was that you were
CHASING HER!.

Of course....a set of handle-bar mounted Spandaus would do the trick
too.

&gt;
&gt; I normally carry a Glock 23 with 155 gr Silvertips in my fanny pack,
&gt; for human threats. I could carry 180 gr JFP to get some additional
&gt; penetration in case of a serious encounter with a moose..... but my
&gt; feeling is that it really wouldn't make much difference. Other than
&gt; making the battle a lot noisier.
&gt;
&gt; I have a can of Counter Assault bear repellant, if I could figure out
&gt; a way to mount it to my handlebar to make it instantly accessible. I
&gt; hate the idea of carrying it on my hydropack strap close to my face
&gt; (in the event of a fall it could be very nasty) and it just won't stay
&gt; in place on my hip while riding.
&gt;
&gt; Does anyone know if that pepper spray has any effect on a charging
&gt; moose? I emailed the manufacturer and they have not replied.
&gt;
&gt; Can anyone comment on this situation? What should I do other than
&gt; hope? I don't want to spend the big $$$ on a hand cannon, because I
&gt; don't want one, and I don't have any safe way to carry it on my
&gt; motorcycle.
&gt;
&gt; Thanks very much. This really has me worried.
&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA USA

Report this message

#27: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-20 15:59:41 by John Davies

On 19 Jul 2006 13:16:42 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
&gt;&gt; day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
&gt;&gt; with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
&gt;&gt; able to do a quick u-turn to escape.
&gt;
&gt;Here's a thought......stop, shut off the bike, and wait for the moose
&gt;to leave. The only reason she was getting pissed was that you were
&gt;CHASING HER!.

I tried stopping for over five minutes, and she just stopped too. When
I moved, she moved. Stand-off!

What if the moose won't leave the trail? And there is no detour? And I
don't have enough gas to retrace my route back to camp? And if it is
JUST as likely I would encounter another of the brutes if I turned the
other way?

I'm afraid that yours is a non-sensical answer to my problem. Moose
are irrational and totally unpredictable. I would be more than happy
to park my bike for a bit if the animal would just TURN LEFT!

John Davies
Spokane WA

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#28: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-20 16:24:42 by Ken Shackleton

John Davies wrote:
&gt; On 19 Jul 2006 13:16:42 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
&gt; &gt;&gt; day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
&gt; &gt;&gt; with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
&gt; &gt;&gt; able to do a quick u-turn to escape.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Here's a thought......stop, shut off the bike, and wait for the moose
&gt; &gt;to leave. The only reason she was getting pissed was that you were
&gt; &gt;CHASING HER!.
&gt;
&gt; I tried stopping for over five minutes, and she just stopped too. When
&gt; I moved, she moved. Stand-off!

There was no standoff....in your original post you stated that you had
to follow her for three miles before she turned off the trail. You
stopped, she stopped....perhaps she was tired and decided to take a
rest. Sit back, have a smoke, enjoy the day, and wait for the moose to
leave....what's another 10 minutes or so?

&gt;
&gt; What if the moose won't leave the trail?

Trust me.....the moose will get bored and leave in good time.

&gt; And there is no detour? And I
&gt; don't have enough gas to retrace my route back to camp? And if it is
&gt; JUST as likely I would encounter another of the brutes if I turned the
&gt; other way?

Lions, tigers, and bears.....Oh My!

Have a little patience.

&gt;
&gt; I'm afraid that yours is a non-sensical answer to my problem.

And you are looking for justification to shoot the moose rather than
wait 10 minutes for it to clear the trail......and my answer is
non-sensical?

&gt; Moose are irrational and totally unpredictable.

Not entirely....I live [and bike] in western Canada.....moose are
somewhat common here. Seeing them on the trail is regular occurance and
finding moose sign is a given on every outing. While I do agree that a
cow moose with a calf in tow is something to be wary of, attacks are
rare [posted video notwithstanding]. Give her enough room so that SHE
feels she has an out, and she will take it.

&gt; I would be more than happy
&gt; to park my bike for a bit if the animal would just TURN LEFT!

It did turn left, just not soon enough for your liking.....you were
simply impatient.

&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA

Report this message

#29: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 08:00:42 by CrashTestDummy

Hey Ken, maybe I'm just naive here, but I don't think John was
seeking an alternative to patience. My interpretation was that he was
looking for self-defense solutions when a dangerous encounter is
unavoidable. I never got the impression that he planned to drop a
moose at the first instance of trail hogging. ;-&gt;

I think you're over-simplifying the matter. In fact, John admitted
to routinely carrying a Glock on his person and whether or not he had
it with him on the day in question, I strongly suspect he would've
resorted to the exact same tactics he used that day (i.e.--not
shooting his way through, but following at a relatively safe distance
until they departed the trail). What he's asking is advice for those
one-in-a-million encounters. Where a rider's survival may depend on
the actions of a wild animal. How long dare you wait when a cow moose
decides to lay down on the trail, with the sun going down and not
enough fuel to return the way you came? I know this is an excessive
example, but it *could* happen. And at that point your survival is in
real jeopardy if your supplies and the elements are also conspiring
against you.

Or if, as John mentions, the moose charges you after rounding a
tight, blind corner with no room to turn around and no safe escape
route. Again, perhaps this is an insanely rare &quot;what if&quot;... but that
doesn't mean it couldn't happen or that you couldn't attempt to be
prepared for it. Personally, I don't have any real world experience
with moose, but I suspect that a shot fired in the road bank would
startle the creature into departure. And in the first example above,
that's what I would try. But then if the creature charged me or still
didn't move I'm sure the next shot would be into his brain pan. If
it's me or the moose, I'm gonna do my best to ensure it's the moose.
And I think that's all that John was trying to say.




On 20 Jul 2006 07:24:42 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;John Davies wrote:
&gt;&gt; On 19 Jul 2006 13:16:42 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; able to do a quick u-turn to escape.
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;Here's a thought......stop, shut off the bike, and wait for the moose
&gt;&gt; &gt;to leave. The only reason she was getting pissed was that you were
&gt;&gt; &gt;CHASING HER!.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I tried stopping for over five minutes, and she just stopped too. When
&gt;&gt; I moved, she moved. Stand-off!
&gt;
&gt;There was no standoff....in your original post you stated that you had
&gt;to follow her for three miles before she turned off the trail. You
&gt;stopped, she stopped....perhaps she was tired and decided to take a
&gt;rest. Sit back, have a smoke, enjoy the day, and wait for the moose to
&gt;leave....what's another 10 minutes or so?
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; What if the moose won't leave the trail?
&gt;
&gt;Trust me.....the moose will get bored and leave in good time.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; And there is no detour? And I
&gt;&gt; don't have enough gas to retrace my route back to camp? And if it is
&gt;&gt; JUST as likely I would encounter another of the brutes if I turned the
&gt;&gt; other way?
&gt;
&gt;Lions, tigers, and bears.....Oh My!
&gt;
&gt;Have a little patience.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'm afraid that yours is a non-sensical answer to my problem.
&gt;
&gt;And you are looking for justification to shoot the moose rather than
&gt;wait 10 minutes for it to clear the trail......and my answer is
&gt;non-sensical?
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Moose are irrational and totally unpredictable.
&gt;
&gt;Not entirely....I live [and bike] in western Canada.....moose are
&gt;somewhat common here. Seeing them on the trail is regular occurance and
&gt;finding moose sign is a given on every outing. While I do agree that a
&gt;cow moose with a calf in tow is something to be wary of, attacks are
&gt;rare [posted video notwithstanding]. Give her enough room so that SHE
&gt;feels she has an out, and she will take it.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; I would be more than happy
&gt;&gt; to park my bike for a bit if the animal would just TURN LEFT!
&gt;
&gt;It did turn left, just not soon enough for your liking.....you were
&gt;simply impatient.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; John Davies
&gt;&gt; Spokane WA

CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#30: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 14:41:57 by GP

I know that this has nothing to do with Moose's but, yesterday
morning, on my commute to work, as I was riding my DRZ400S along one of
the back country roads leading away from my house to the big metropolis
of Ware Center, in a field off to the right I noticed what appeared to
be a cow running straight at me. There was a hedgerow along the road
side so my vision was somewhat obstructed as the trees and bushes
passed by. I thought to myself &quot;That is one fast cow!&quot;. And as I
continued down the road I thought &quot;That must be a dog!&quot; And as I came
to an opening to the field the beast had turned so as to run along side
of me, matching my speed and it was a BEAR! I instinctively twisted the
throttle and scooted down the road about 100 yards before I had the
nuts to look back. The bear was just standing there in the road looking
at me! I am pretty sure that it wanted to eat me.
It really shook me up, so I went to work, grabbed a cup of coffee, and
had a crappy day.
Greg

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#31: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 16:51:40 by Ken Shackleton

CrashTestDummy wrote:
&gt; Hey Ken, maybe I'm just naive here, but I don't think John was
&gt; seeking an alternative to patience. My interpretation was that he was
&gt; looking for self-defense solutions when a dangerous encounter is
&gt; unavoidable. I never got the impression that he planned to drop a
&gt; moose at the first instance of trail hogging. ;-&gt;

Oops....then I misunderstood his question.....sorry John. Sometimes I
have trouble reading for comprehension....

&gt;
&gt; I think you're over-simplifying the matter. In fact, John admitted
&gt; to routinely carrying a Glock on his person and whether or not he had
&gt; it with him on the day in question, I strongly suspect he would've
&gt; resorted to the exact same tactics he used that day (i.e.--not
&gt; shooting his way through, but following at a relatively safe distance
&gt; until they departed the trail). What he's asking is advice for those
&gt; one-in-a-million encounters. Where a rider's survival may depend on
&gt; the actions of a wild animal. How long dare you wait when a cow moose
&gt; decides to lay down on the trail, with the sun going down and not
&gt; enough fuel to return the way you came? I know this is an excessive
&gt; example, but it *could* happen. And at that point your survival is in
&gt; real jeopardy if your supplies and the elements are also conspiring
&gt; against you.

Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
crap out of anything.



&gt;
&gt; Or if, as John mentions, the moose charges you after rounding a
&gt; tight, blind corner with no room to turn around and no safe escape
&gt; route. Again, perhaps this is an insanely rare &quot;what if&quot;... but that
&gt; doesn't mean it couldn't happen or that you couldn't attempt to be
&gt; prepared for it. Personally, I don't have any real world experience
&gt; with moose, but I suspect that a shot fired in the road bank would
&gt; startle the creature into departure. And in the first example above,
&gt; that's what I would try. But then if the creature charged me or still
&gt; didn't move I'm sure the next shot would be into his brain pan. If
&gt; it's me or the moose, I'm gonna do my best to ensure it's the moose.
&gt; And I think that's all that John was trying to say.

Understood....sorry for the misunderstanding John.

Ken

&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; On 20 Jul 2006 07:24:42 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;John Davies wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; On 19 Jul 2006 13:16:42 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; These are such STUPID but very large animals! I am concerned that one
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; day I will round a corner and come face to face with a bull, or cow
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; with calf, that won't turn and run. If the trail is narrow I won't be
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; able to do a quick u-turn to escape.
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Here's a thought......stop, shut off the bike, and wait for the moose
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;to leave. The only reason she was getting pissed was that you were
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;CHASING HER!.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I tried stopping for over five minutes, and she just stopped too. When
&gt; &gt;&gt; I moved, she moved. Stand-off!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;There was no standoff....in your original post you stated that you had
&gt; &gt;to follow her for three miles before she turned off the trail. You
&gt; &gt;stopped, she stopped....perhaps she was tired and decided to take a
&gt; &gt;rest. Sit back, have a smoke, enjoy the day, and wait for the moose to
&gt; &gt;leave....what's another 10 minutes or so?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; What if the moose won't leave the trail?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Trust me.....the moose will get bored and leave in good time.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; And there is no detour? And I
&gt; &gt;&gt; don't have enough gas to retrace my route back to camp? And if it is
&gt; &gt;&gt; JUST as likely I would encounter another of the brutes if I turned the
&gt; &gt;&gt; other way?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Lions, tigers, and bears.....Oh My!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Have a little patience.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I'm afraid that yours is a non-sensical answer to my problem.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;And you are looking for justification to shoot the moose rather than
&gt; &gt;wait 10 minutes for it to clear the trail......and my answer is
&gt; &gt;non-sensical?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Moose are irrational and totally unpredictable.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Not entirely....I live [and bike] in western Canada.....moose are
&gt; &gt;somewhat common here. Seeing them on the trail is regular occurance and
&gt; &gt;finding moose sign is a given on every outing. While I do agree that a
&gt; &gt;cow moose with a calf in tow is something to be wary of, attacks are
&gt; &gt;rare [posted video notwithstanding]. Give her enough room so that SHE
&gt; &gt;feels she has an out, and she will take it.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I would be more than happy
&gt; &gt;&gt; to park my bike for a bit if the animal would just TURN LEFT!
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;It did turn left, just not soon enough for your liking.....you were
&gt; &gt;simply impatient.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; John Davies
&gt; &gt;&gt; Spokane WA
&gt;
&gt; CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
&gt; <a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#32: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 17:02:44 by John Davies

On 21 Jul 2006 05:41:57 -0700, &quot;GP&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:gplassmann&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">gplassmann&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;The bear was just standing there in the road looking
&gt;at me! I am pretty sure that it wanted to eat me.
&gt; It really shook me up, so I went to work, grabbed a cup of coffee, and
&gt;had a crappy day.


What color was this bear and how big was he?

I don't have (too) much fear of black bears while riding, but the
browns are a whole 'nother story!

John Davies
Spokane WA

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#33: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 17:17:41 by CrashTestDummy

On 21 Jul 2006 07:51:40 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
&gt;horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
&gt;crap out of anything.

Now there's an idea!


CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#34: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 17:27:13 by Ken Shackleton

GP wrote:
&gt; I know that this has nothing to do with Moose's but, yesterday
&gt; morning, on my commute to work, as I was riding my DRZ400S along one of
&gt; the back country roads leading away from my house to the big metropolis
&gt; of Ware Center, in a field off to the right I noticed what appeared to
&gt; be a cow running straight at me. There was a hedgerow along the road
&gt; side so my vision was somewhat obstructed as the trees and bushes
&gt; passed by. I thought to myself &quot;That is one fast cow!&quot;. And as I
&gt; continued down the road I thought &quot;That must be a dog!&quot; And as I came
&gt; to an opening to the field the beast had turned so as to run along side
&gt; of me, matching my speed and it was a BEAR! I instinctively twisted the
&gt; throttle and scooted down the road about 100 yards before I had the
&gt; nuts to look back. The bear was just standing there in the road looking
&gt; at me! I am pretty sure that it wanted to eat me.

I am happy to hear that you are OK.

Bears are incredibly fast when they want to be...three years ago, my
brother and I were hiking in Kananaskis Country west of Calgary. We
day-hiked a trail called Ribbon Creek to a small wilderness camp called
Ribbon Lake. The trail is 16 km long, with the last couple of km being
very steep, and at one point, the forest service has bolted chains to a
rock face that must be climbed to get up to the wilderness camp.

After the chain climb, it's another couple hundred metres of uphill to
the camp.

On our way back, we had just left the camp, and were standing at the
top of the ridge getting ready to descend the trail to where the chains
are....I looked down by the stream bed about 100 metres ahead and I saw
a very large, black as night, grizzly bear. Now the bear was just
sniffing around, but he was standing about 20 feet from the trail that
we were obliged to take.....between the bear and the trail was a small
thicket of brush.

Now....even though bears are common here....and I hike in the mountains
frequently, I have only seen them a couple of times...and usually at a
distance.

Shortly after I spotted the bear....so did my brother....and he gets
all excited and says &quot;Is that a bear?!?....I've only seen them in the
zoo before.&quot; I told him to that it was a grizzly and to calm down. I
sat down to watch and wait......my brother stands there....starts
yelling &quot;Hey Bear!&quot; at the top of his lungs and starts barking like a
fucking dog!! I was horrified.

I told him to shut the fuck up and sit down.....by now, the bear had
stood up and was looking right at us with that dished grizzly face....I
had visions of him walking up the hill to see what the commotion was
all about. My brother...seeing how big the bear was, wisely decided to
shut his yap and sit down.

The bear then got back on all fours and walked into the ticket by the
trail.....right beside the path that we had to take......now what?

We are Canadians....and most of us do not pack heat....even in the
bush....so what to do? Did I mention that we left our kids below the
chains at the base of a waterfall? They wanted to goof around in the
water [teenagers]. There were lots of other hikers below the chains,
but my brother and I [and the bear] were the only one above that chains
at that time.

So....we decided that it would be best to make lots of noise and slowly
walk down the trail, past the bear, and hope that he hears us coming
and sneaks away....as they typically do. So....when we get to the point
were we are appraoching the thicket where we know the bear might
be....we slow down and get louder....I wanted to be sure that he heard
us from a long way....so....we are about 30 feet or so from the thicket
when the bear bursts out of the bush and runs across the trail with
speed that I found hard to believe. I had read that they can catch a
horse and rider, and now I believe it.....this bear was moving! He was
so fast, that if he had decided to attack....even if I had gun in hand,
he would have been on us and I would have got one shot off at
most.....and probably would have missed.

He ran across the trail, in front of, but away from us, looking over
his shoulder at us, and he bolted into the bush on the other side and
disappeared......he never made a sound.

I stopped, in shock and said to my brother...&quot;Did you see that?&quot; He
replied that he did using some choice explitives....and we hurried our
asses down those chains. We were rather keyed up for the 16 km walk
out.....it was an exciting day.

Ken


&gt; It really shook me up, so I went to work, grabbed a cup of coffee, and
&gt; had a crappy day.
&gt; Greg

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#35: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 17:43:57 by Joemomma

CrashTestDummy wrote:
&gt; On 21 Jul 2006 07:51:40 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
&gt;&gt;horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
&gt;&gt;crap out of anything.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Now there's an idea!
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
&gt; <a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

Ever do that to your wife when she is sleeping? &quot;DON'T&quot; I thought I was
going to have to have it surgicaly removed!

Joe

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#36: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 19:22:33 by GP

John Davies wrote:
&gt; What color was this bear and how big was he?
&gt;
&gt; I don't have (too) much fear of black bears while riding, but the
&gt; browns are a whole 'nother story!
&gt;
&gt; John Davies
&gt; Spokane WA

Black Bear (Massachusetts, it's the only kind we have, I think), maybe
150 lbs. Big (and Fast) enough to scare me! Honestly, I don't know if
he was just curious and wanted to see what I was, or if he actually
wanted to take me down. These things usually eat berries and stuff like
that, but maybe he was rabbid, or drunk on berry juice...
I was nervous as I rode past that spot today.
Greg

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#37: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 19:51:22 by Wudsracer

Ken,
This post of your's, and the maturity it displays has impressed me.
I've only heard of one perfect person, and he lived a long time ago.

The rest of us make mistakes, sometimes.

Jim
That reminds me of something Brother Dave Gardner once said,&quot;People
from the South may not always be right, but By God, they ain't never
wrong.&quot;

&lt;G&gt;




&gt;On 21 Jul 2006 07:51:40 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;CrashTestDummy wrote:
&gt;&gt; Hey Ken, maybe I'm just naive here, but I don't think John was
&gt;&gt; seeking an alternative to patience. My interpretation was that he was
&gt;&gt; looking for self-defense solutions when a dangerous encounter is
&gt;&gt; unavoidable. I never got the impression that he planned to drop a
&gt;&gt; moose at the first instance of trail hogging. ;-&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Oops....then I misunderstood his question.....sorry John. Sometimes I
&gt;have trouble reading for comprehension....
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I think you're over-simplifying the matter. In fact, John admitted
&gt;&gt; to routinely carrying a Glock on his person and whether or not he had
&gt;&gt; it with him on the day in question, I strongly suspect he would've
&gt;&gt; resorted to the exact same tactics he used that day (i.e.--not
&gt;&gt; shooting his way through, but following at a relatively safe distance
&gt;&gt; until they departed the trail). What he's asking is advice for those
&gt;&gt; one-in-a-million encounters. Where a rider's survival may depend on
&gt;&gt; the actions of a wild animal. How long dare you wait when a cow moose
&gt;&gt; decides to lay down on the trail, with the sun going down and not
&gt;&gt; enough fuel to return the way you came? I know this is an excessive
&gt;&gt; example, but it *could* happen. And at that point your survival is in
&gt;&gt; real jeopardy if your supplies and the elements are also conspiring
&gt;&gt; against you.
&gt;
&gt;Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
&gt;horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
&gt;crap out of anything.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Or if, as John mentions, the moose charges you after rounding a
&gt;&gt; tight, blind corner with no room to turn around and no safe escape
&gt;&gt; route. Again, perhaps this is an insanely rare &quot;what if&quot;... but that
&gt;&gt; doesn't mean it couldn't happen or that you couldn't attempt to be
&gt;&gt; prepared for it. Personally, I don't have any real world experience
&gt;&gt; with moose, but I suspect that a shot fired in the road bank would
&gt;&gt; startle the creature into departure. And in the first example above,
&gt;&gt; that's what I would try. But then if the creature charged me or still
&gt;&gt; didn't move I'm sure the next shot would be into his brain pan. If
&gt;&gt; it's me or the moose, I'm gonna do my best to ensure it's the moose.
&gt;&gt; And I think that's all that John was trying to say.
&gt;
&gt;Understood....sorry for the misunderstanding John.
&gt;
&gt;Ken

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#38: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 20:15:45 by DirtCrashr

&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; looking for self-defense solutions when a dangerous encounter is
&gt;&gt; unavoidable. I never got the impression that he planned to drop a
&gt;&gt; moose at the first instance of trail hogging. ;-&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Oops....then I misunderstood his question.....sorry John. Sometimes I
&gt;have trouble reading for comprehension....
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; example, but it *could* happen. And at that point your survival is in
&gt;&gt; real jeopardy if your supplies and the elements are also conspiring
&gt;&gt; against you.
&gt;
&gt;Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
&gt;horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
&gt;crap out of anything.
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; that's what I would try. But then if the creature charged me or still
&gt;&gt; didn't move I'm sure the next shot would be into his brain pan. If
&gt;&gt; it's me or the moose, I'm gonna do my best to ensure it's the moose.
&gt;&gt; And I think that's all that John was trying to say.
&gt;
&gt;Understood....sorry for the misunderstanding John.
&gt;
&gt;Ken

One thing that we haven't brought up here, but is often said elsewhere
about dirtbike-animal encounters, is that animals don't perceive the
dirtbike rider as a particular threat but as another creature - maybe
a weird one that moves pretty quickly and is tall.

Ecoweenies are constantly complaining about how we terrify the poor
forest critters and make-up stories that are patently untrue from
direct experience, whereas a hiker with a dog is the most immediately
recognized threat - not a dirtbike guy riding along a trail.

Maybe if you got of the bike, took off the helmet and assumed the
Human Persona, the animal would have a different reaction.

Just wondering. Besides then you could use the bike as a shooting
rest.

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#39: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 20:32:16 by GP

DirtCrashr wrote:
&gt; One thing that we haven't brought up here, but is often said elsewhere
&gt; about dirtbike-animal encounters, is that animals don't perceive the
&gt; dirtbike rider as a particular threat but as another creature - maybe
&gt; a weird one that moves pretty quickly and is tall.
&gt;
&gt; Ecoweenies are constantly complaining about how we terrify the poor
&gt; forest critters and make-up stories that are patently untrue from
&gt; direct experience, whereas a hiker with a dog is the most immediately
&gt; recognized threat - not a dirtbike guy riding along a trail.
&gt;
&gt; Maybe if you got of the bike, took off the helmet and assumed the
&gt; Human Persona, the animal would have a different reaction.
&gt;
&gt; Just wondering. Besides then you could use the bike as a shooting
&gt; rest.

Here in Massachusetts, as kids we are trained not to hurt the animals
or the environment in any way. We are taught to say nice things to the
bear and quickly move out of his way so as not to impede his natural
movements.
But I've learned on the streets that the best way to end an encounter
with a bear is to kick 'em in the 'nads.
Greg

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#40: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 20:55:19 by Ken Shackleton

Wudsracer wrote:
&gt; Ken,
&gt; This post of your's, and the maturity it displays has impressed me.
&gt; I've only heard of one perfect person, and he lived a long time ago.

Thanks...crow don't taste so bad once you've had a few platefuls....

&gt;
&gt; The rest of us make mistakes, sometimes.
&gt;
&gt; Jim
&gt; That reminds me of something Brother Dave Gardner once said,&quot;People
&gt; from the South may not always be right, but By God, they ain't never
&gt; wrong.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; &lt;G&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &gt;On 21 Jul 2006 07:51:40 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;CrashTestDummy wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; Hey Ken, maybe I'm just naive here, but I don't think John was
&gt; &gt;&gt; seeking an alternative to patience. My interpretation was that he was
&gt; &gt;&gt; looking for self-defense solutions when a dangerous encounter is
&gt; &gt;&gt; unavoidable. I never got the impression that he planned to drop a
&gt; &gt;&gt; moose at the first instance of trail hogging. ;-&gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Oops....then I misunderstood his question.....sorry John. Sometimes I
&gt; &gt;have trouble reading for comprehension....
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I think you're over-simplifying the matter. In fact, John admitted
&gt; &gt;&gt; to routinely carrying a Glock on his person and whether or not he had
&gt; &gt;&gt; it with him on the day in question, I strongly suspect he would've
&gt; &gt;&gt; resorted to the exact same tactics he used that day (i.e.--not
&gt; &gt;&gt; shooting his way through, but following at a relatively safe distance
&gt; &gt;&gt; until they departed the trail). What he's asking is advice for those
&gt; &gt;&gt; one-in-a-million encounters. Where a rider's survival may depend on
&gt; &gt;&gt; the actions of a wild animal. How long dare you wait when a cow moose
&gt; &gt;&gt; decides to lay down on the trail, with the sun going down and not
&gt; &gt;&gt; enough fuel to return the way you came? I know this is an excessive
&gt; &gt;&gt; example, but it *could* happen. And at that point your survival is in
&gt; &gt;&gt; real jeopardy if your supplies and the elements are also conspiring
&gt; &gt;&gt; against you.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
&gt; &gt;horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
&gt; &gt;crap out of anything.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Or if, as John mentions, the moose charges you after rounding a
&gt; &gt;&gt; tight, blind corner with no room to turn around and no safe escape
&gt; &gt;&gt; route. Again, perhaps this is an insanely rare &quot;what if&quot;... but that
&gt; &gt;&gt; doesn't mean it couldn't happen or that you couldn't attempt to be
&gt; &gt;&gt; prepared for it. Personally, I don't have any real world experience
&gt; &gt;&gt; with moose, but I suspect that a shot fired in the road bank would
&gt; &gt;&gt; startle the creature into departure. And in the first example above,
&gt; &gt;&gt; that's what I would try. But then if the creature charged me or still
&gt; &gt;&gt; didn't move I'm sure the next shot would be into his brain pan. If
&gt; &gt;&gt; it's me or the moose, I'm gonna do my best to ensure it's the moose.
&gt; &gt;&gt; And I think that's all that John was trying to say.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Understood....sorry for the misunderstanding John.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Ken

Report this message

#41: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 21:09:05 by Ken Shackleton

GP wrote:
&gt; DirtCrashr wrote:
&gt; &gt; One thing that we haven't brought up here, but is often said elsewhere
&gt; &gt; about dirtbike-animal encounters, is that animals don't perceive the
&gt; &gt; dirtbike rider as a particular threat but as another creature - maybe
&gt; &gt; a weird one that moves pretty quickly and is tall.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Ecoweenies are constantly complaining about how we terrify the poor
&gt; &gt; forest critters and make-up stories that are patently untrue from
&gt; &gt; direct experience, whereas a hiker with a dog is the most immediately
&gt; &gt; recognized threat - not a dirtbike guy riding along a trail.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Maybe if you got of the bike, took off the helmet and assumed the
&gt; &gt; Human Persona, the animal would have a different reaction.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Just wondering. Besides then you could use the bike as a shooting
&gt; &gt; rest.
&gt;
&gt; Here in Massachusetts, as kids we are trained not to hurt the animals
&gt; or the environment in any way. We are taught to say nice things to the
&gt; bear and quickly move out of his way so as not to impede his natural
&gt; movements.

There are two very distinct types of behaviour that the black bear has
been known to exhibit toward humans. The first is the typcial threat
response....the bear sees you as a threat because you have surprised
him or gotten too close of a kill or cubs...and they just want you to
go away, they get excited and blustery, and might even charge...in this
scenario acting submissive is probably the best posture to take.

However, there is another documented behaviour that is far more
dangerous. The bear is not surprised by you....he may actually follow
you at some distance, getting closer...checking you out...acting calm.
This is predatory behaviour and the bear is sizing you up for a
meal....and if you assume the standard submissive posture to such a
bear....you are going to become lunch.

In this scenario.....be loud, be aggressive.....make the bear
understand that there are easier targets and he will likely go away.

&gt; But I've learned on the streets that the best way to end an encounter
&gt; with a bear is to kick 'em in the 'nads.
&gt; Greg

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#42: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 23:45:19 by CrashTestDummy

Fascinating story, Ken, thanks for sharing. I'm a junkie for good
bear stories.

Like Rick. ;-p


On 21 Jul 2006 08:27:13 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;GP wrote:
&gt;&gt; I know that this has nothing to do with Moose's but, yesterday
&gt;&gt; morning, on my commute to work, as I was riding my DRZ400S along one of
&gt;&gt; the back country roads leading away from my house to the big metropolis
&gt;&gt; of Ware Center, in a field off to the right I noticed what appeared to
&gt;&gt; be a cow running straight at me. There was a hedgerow along the road
&gt;&gt; side so my vision was somewhat obstructed as the trees and bushes
&gt;&gt; passed by. I thought to myself &quot;That is one fast cow!&quot;. And as I
&gt;&gt; continued down the road I thought &quot;That must be a dog!&quot; And as I came
&gt;&gt; to an opening to the field the beast had turned so as to run along side
&gt;&gt; of me, matching my speed and it was a BEAR! I instinctively twisted the
&gt;&gt; throttle and scooted down the road about 100 yards before I had the
&gt;&gt; nuts to look back. The bear was just standing there in the road looking
&gt;&gt; at me! I am pretty sure that it wanted to eat me.
&gt;
&gt;I am happy to hear that you are OK.
&gt;
&gt;Bears are incredibly fast when they want to be...three years ago, my
&gt;brother and I were hiking in Kananaskis Country west of Calgary. We
&gt;day-hiked a trail called Ribbon Creek to a small wilderness camp called
&gt;Ribbon Lake. The trail is 16 km long, with the last couple of km being
&gt;very steep, and at one point, the forest service has bolted chains to a
&gt;rock face that must be climbed to get up to the wilderness camp.
&gt;
&gt;After the chain climb, it's another couple hundred metres of uphill to
&gt;the camp.
&gt;
&gt;On our way back, we had just left the camp, and were standing at the
&gt;top of the ridge getting ready to descend the trail to where the chains
&gt;are....I looked down by the stream bed about 100 metres ahead and I saw
&gt;a very large, black as night, grizzly bear. Now the bear was just
&gt;sniffing around, but he was standing about 20 feet from the trail that
&gt;we were obliged to take.....between the bear and the trail was a small
&gt;thicket of brush.
&gt;
&gt;Now....even though bears are common here....and I hike in the mountains
&gt;frequently, I have only seen them a couple of times...and usually at a
&gt;distance.
&gt;
&gt;Shortly after I spotted the bear....so did my brother....and he gets
&gt;all excited and says &quot;Is that a bear?!?....I've only seen them in the
&gt;zoo before.&quot; I told him to that it was a grizzly and to calm down. I
&gt;sat down to watch and wait......my brother stands there....starts
&gt;yelling &quot;Hey Bear!&quot; at the top of his lungs and starts barking like a
&gt;fucking dog!! I was horrified.
&gt;
&gt;I told him to shut the fuck up and sit down.....by now, the bear had
&gt;stood up and was looking right at us with that dished grizzly face....I
&gt;had visions of him walking up the hill to see what the commotion was
&gt;all about. My brother...seeing how big the bear was, wisely decided to
&gt;shut his yap and sit down.
&gt;
&gt;The bear then got back on all fours and walked into the ticket by the
&gt;trail.....right beside the path that we had to take......now what?
&gt;
&gt;We are Canadians....and most of us do not pack heat....even in the
&gt;bush....so what to do? Did I mention that we left our kids below the
&gt;chains at the base of a waterfall? They wanted to goof around in the
&gt;water [teenagers]. There were lots of other hikers below the chains,
&gt;but my brother and I [and the bear] were the only one above that chains
&gt;at that time.
&gt;
&gt;So....we decided that it would be best to make lots of noise and slowly
&gt;walk down the trail, past the bear, and hope that he hears us coming
&gt;and sneaks away....as they typically do. So....when we get to the point
&gt;were we are appraoching the thicket where we know the bear might
&gt;be....we slow down and get louder....I wanted to be sure that he heard
&gt;us from a long way....so....we are about 30 feet or so from the thicket
&gt;when the bear bursts out of the bush and runs across the trail with
&gt;speed that I found hard to believe. I had read that they can catch a
&gt;horse and rider, and now I believe it.....this bear was moving! He was
&gt;so fast, that if he had decided to attack....even if I had gun in hand,
&gt;he would have been on us and I would have got one shot off at
&gt;most.....and probably would have missed.
&gt;
&gt;He ran across the trail, in front of, but away from us, looking over
&gt;his shoulder at us, and he bolted into the bush on the other side and
&gt;disappeared......he never made a sound.
&gt;
&gt;I stopped, in shock and said to my brother...&quot;Did you see that?&quot; He
&gt;replied that he did using some choice explitives....and we hurried our
&gt;asses down those chains. We were rather keyed up for the 16 km walk
&gt;out.....it was an exciting day.
&gt;
&gt;Ken
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; It really shook me up, so I went to work, grabbed a cup of coffee, and
&gt;&gt; had a crappy day.
&gt;&gt; Greg

CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#43: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-21 23:51:58 by CrashTestDummy

Ken already impressed me in an earlier thread with his maturity.
Like I often do myself, I think he just misinterpreted the question.
I didn't mean to appear scolding... just trying to explain my own
interpretation. Hell, maybe *I'm* not right ;-p


On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:51:22 GMT, Wudsracer
&lt;<a href="mailto:dirtbike52RemovE&#64;sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">dirtbike52RemovE&#64;sbcglobal.net</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;
&gt;Ken,
&gt;This post of your's, and the maturity it displays has impressed me.
&gt;I've only heard of one perfect person, and he lived a long time ago.
&gt;
&gt;The rest of us make mistakes, sometimes.
&gt;
&gt;Jim
&gt;That reminds me of something Brother Dave Gardner once said,&quot;People
&gt;from the South may not always be right, but By God, they ain't never
&gt;wrong.&quot;
&gt;
&gt; &lt;G&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On 21 Jul 2006 07:51:40 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;CrashTestDummy wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Hey Ken, maybe I'm just naive here, but I don't think John was
&gt;&gt;&gt; seeking an alternative to patience. My interpretation was that he was
&gt;&gt;&gt; looking for self-defense solutions when a dangerous encounter is
&gt;&gt;&gt; unavoidable. I never got the impression that he planned to drop a
&gt;&gt;&gt; moose at the first instance of trail hogging. ;-&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Oops....then I misunderstood his question.....sorry John. Sometimes I
&gt;&gt;have trouble reading for comprehension....
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I think you're over-simplifying the matter. In fact, John admitted
&gt;&gt;&gt; to routinely carrying a Glock on his person and whether or not he had
&gt;&gt;&gt; it with him on the day in question, I strongly suspect he would've
&gt;&gt;&gt; resorted to the exact same tactics he used that day (i.e.--not
&gt;&gt;&gt; shooting his way through, but following at a relatively safe distance
&gt;&gt;&gt; until they departed the trail). What he's asking is advice for those
&gt;&gt;&gt; one-in-a-million encounters. Where a rider's survival may depend on
&gt;&gt;&gt; the actions of a wild animal. How long dare you wait when a cow moose
&gt;&gt;&gt; decides to lay down on the trail, with the sun going down and not
&gt;&gt;&gt; enough fuel to return the way you came? I know this is an excessive
&gt;&gt;&gt; example, but it *could* happen. And at that point your survival is in
&gt;&gt;&gt; real jeopardy if your supplies and the elements are also conspiring
&gt;&gt;&gt; against you.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Ok.....ok....how about carrying one of those obnoxiously loud boat
&gt;&gt;horns that uses a small can of compressed air.....that should scare the
&gt;&gt;crap out of anything.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Or if, as John mentions, the moose charges you after rounding a
&gt;&gt;&gt; tight, blind corner with no room to turn around and no safe escape
&gt;&gt;&gt; route. Again, perhaps this is an insanely rare &quot;what if&quot;... but that
&gt;&gt;&gt; doesn't mean it couldn't happen or that you couldn't attempt to be
&gt;&gt;&gt; prepared for it. Personally, I don't have any real world experience
&gt;&gt;&gt; with moose, but I suspect that a shot fired in the road bank would
&gt;&gt;&gt; startle the creature into departure. And in the first example above,
&gt;&gt;&gt; that's what I would try. But then if the creature charged me or still
&gt;&gt;&gt; didn't move I'm sure the next shot would be into his brain pan. If
&gt;&gt;&gt; it's me or the moose, I'm gonna do my best to ensure it's the moose.
&gt;&gt;&gt; And I think that's all that John was trying to say.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Understood....sorry for the misunderstanding John.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Ken

CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#44: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 00:24:28 by DirtCrashr

&gt;I am happy to hear that you are OK.
&gt;
&gt;Bears are incredibly fast when they want to be...three years ago, my
&gt;brother and I were hiking in Kananaskis Country west of Calgary. We
&gt;day-hiked a trail called Ribbon Creek to a small wilderness camp called
&gt;Ribbon Lake. The trail is 16 km long, with the last couple of km being
&gt;very steep, and at one point, the forest service has bolted chains to a
&gt;rock face that must be climbed to get up to the wilderness camp.
&gt;
&gt;After the chain climb, it's another couple hundred metres of uphill to
&gt;the camp.
&gt;
&gt;On our way back, we had just left the camp, and were standing at the
&gt;top of the ridge getting ready to descend the trail to where the chains
&gt;are....I looked down by the stream bed about 100 metres ahead and I saw
&gt;a very large, black as night, grizzly bear. Now the bear was just
&gt;sniffing around, but he was standing about 20 feet from the trail that
&gt;we were obliged to take.....between the bear and the trail was a small
&gt;thicket of brush.
&gt;
&gt;Now....even though bears are common here....and I hike in the mountains
&gt;frequently, I have only seen them a couple of times...and usually at a
&gt;distance.
&gt;
&gt;Shortly after I spotted the bear....so did my brother....and he gets
&gt;all excited and says &quot;Is that a bear?!?....I've only seen them in the
&gt;zoo before.&quot; I told him to that it was a grizzly and to calm down. I
&gt;sat down to watch and wait......my brother stands there....starts
&gt;yelling &quot;Hey Bear!&quot; at the top of his lungs and starts barking like a
&gt;fucking dog!! I was horrified.
&gt;
&gt;I told him to shut the fuck up and sit down.....by now, the bear had
&gt;stood up and was looking right at us with that dished grizzly face....I
&gt;had visions of him walking up the hill to see what the commotion was
&gt;all about. My brother...seeing how big the bear was, wisely decided to
&gt;shut his yap and sit down.
&gt;
&gt;The bear then got back on all fours and walked into the ticket by the
&gt;trail.....right beside the path that we had to take......now what?
&gt;
&gt;We are Canadians....and most of us do not pack heat....even in the
&gt;bush....so what to do? Did I mention that we left our kids below the
&gt;chains at the base of a waterfall? They wanted to goof around in the
&gt;water [teenagers]. There were lots of other hikers below the chains,
&gt;but my brother and I [and the bear] were the only one above that chains
&gt;at that time.
&gt;
&gt;So....we decided that it would be best to make lots of noise and slowly
&gt;walk down the trail, past the bear, and hope that he hears us coming
&gt;and sneaks away....as they typically do. So....when we get to the point
&gt;were we are appraoching the thicket where we know the bear might
&gt;be....we slow down and get louder....I wanted to be sure that he heard
&gt;us from a long way....so....we are about 30 feet or so from the thicket
&gt;when the bear bursts out of the bush and runs across the trail with
&gt;speed that I found hard to believe. I had read that they can catch a
&gt;horse and rider, and now I believe it.....this bear was moving! He was
&gt;so fast, that if he had decided to attack....even if I had gun in hand,
&gt;he would have been on us and I would have got one shot off at
&gt;most.....and probably would have missed.
&gt;
&gt;He ran across the trail, in front of, but away from us, looking over
&gt;his shoulder at us, and he bolted into the bush on the other side and
&gt;disappeared......he never made a sound.
&gt;
&gt;I stopped, in shock and said to my brother...&quot;Did you see that?&quot; He
&gt;replied that he did using some choice explitives....and we hurried our
&gt;asses down those chains. We were rather keyed up for the 16 km walk
&gt;out.....it was an exciting day.
&gt;
&gt;Ken

You ought to slap your brother upside the haid!
:-)

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#45: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 05:24:25 by Ken Shackleton

DirtCrashr wrote:
&gt; &gt;I am happy to hear that you are OK.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Bears are incredibly fast when they want to be...three years ago, my
&gt; &gt;brother and I were hiking in Kananaskis Country west of Calgary. We
&gt; &gt;day-hiked a trail called Ribbon Creek to a small wilderness camp called
&gt; &gt;Ribbon Lake. The trail is 16 km long, with the last couple of km being
&gt; &gt;very steep, and at one point, the forest service has bolted chains to a
&gt; &gt;rock face that must be climbed to get up to the wilderness camp.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;After the chain climb, it's another couple hundred metres of uphill to
&gt; &gt;the camp.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;On our way back, we had just left the camp, and were standing at the
&gt; &gt;top of the ridge getting ready to descend the trail to where the chains
&gt; &gt;are....I looked down by the stream bed about 100 metres ahead and I saw
&gt; &gt;a very large, black as night, grizzly bear. Now the bear was just
&gt; &gt;sniffing around, but he was standing about 20 feet from the trail that
&gt; &gt;we were obliged to take.....between the bear and the trail was a small
&gt; &gt;thicket of brush.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Now....even though bears are common here....and I hike in the mountains
&gt; &gt;frequently, I have only seen them a couple of times...and usually at a
&gt; &gt;distance.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Shortly after I spotted the bear....so did my brother....and he gets
&gt; &gt;all excited and says &quot;Is that a bear?!?....I've only seen them in the
&gt; &gt;zoo before.&quot; I told him to that it was a grizzly and to calm down. I
&gt; &gt;sat down to watch and wait......my brother stands there....starts
&gt; &gt;yelling &quot;Hey Bear!&quot; at the top of his lungs and starts barking like a
&gt; &gt;fucking dog!! I was horrified.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;I told him to shut the fuck up and sit down.....by now, the bear had
&gt; &gt;stood up and was looking right at us with that dished grizzly face....I
&gt; &gt;had visions of him walking up the hill to see what the commotion was
&gt; &gt;all about. My brother...seeing how big the bear was, wisely decided to
&gt; &gt;shut his yap and sit down.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;The bear then got back on all fours and walked into the ticket by the
&gt; &gt;trail.....right beside the path that we had to take......now what?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;We are Canadians....and most of us do not pack heat....even in the
&gt; &gt;bush....so what to do? Did I mention that we left our kids below the
&gt; &gt;chains at the base of a waterfall? They wanted to goof around in the
&gt; &gt;water [teenagers]. There were lots of other hikers below the chains,
&gt; &gt;but my brother and I [and the bear] were the only one above that chains
&gt; &gt;at that time.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;So....we decided that it would be best to make lots of noise and slowly
&gt; &gt;walk down the trail, past the bear, and hope that he hears us coming
&gt; &gt;and sneaks away....as they typically do. So....when we get to the point
&gt; &gt;were we are appraoching the thicket where we know the bear might
&gt; &gt;be....we slow down and get louder....I wanted to be sure that he heard
&gt; &gt;us from a long way....so....we are about 30 feet or so from the thicket
&gt; &gt;when the bear bursts out of the bush and runs across the trail with
&gt; &gt;speed that I found hard to believe. I had read that they can catch a
&gt; &gt;horse and rider, and now I believe it.....this bear was moving! He was
&gt; &gt;so fast, that if he had decided to attack....even if I had gun in hand,
&gt; &gt;he would have been on us and I would have got one shot off at
&gt; &gt;most.....and probably would have missed.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;He ran across the trail, in front of, but away from us, looking over
&gt; &gt;his shoulder at us, and he bolted into the bush on the other side and
&gt; &gt;disappeared......he never made a sound.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;I stopped, in shock and said to my brother...&quot;Did you see that?&quot; He
&gt; &gt;replied that he did using some choice explitives....and we hurried our
&gt; &gt;asses down those chains. We were rather keyed up for the 16 km walk
&gt; &gt;out.....it was an exciting day.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Ken
&gt;
&gt; You ought to slap your brother upside the haid!

I'll tell you...once that bear stood up and looked our way....he got
awful quiet....

&gt; :-)

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#46: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 06:15:38 by DirtCrashr

On 21 Jul 2006 20:24:25 -0700, &quot;Ken Shackleton&quot;
&lt;<a href="mailto:ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">ken.shackleton&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;&gt; You ought to slap your brother upside the haid!
&gt;
&gt;I'll tell you...once that bear stood up and looked our way....he got
&gt;awful quiet....
&gt;
&gt;&gt; :-)

Same effect! Good on you.

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#47: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 07:04:52 by HarryS

Here's my bear story.

Back in Olympic National Park (Washington State) when I was in high school,
my brother and I hiked to the bottom of an incredibly steep ravine to fish
some of the pools in the bottom. We found a good pool with a nice gravel bar
on the other side. The only access to the beach was to cross a fallen tree.
The beach was otherwise surrounded by sheer cliffs.

We were peeling some oranges for lunch when I looked up and saw a bear
halfway across our log, not 50' away. I recognized it as a black cinnamon
bear (only found in the Olympics). My brother freaked out when I jumped up
and started yelling and waving my arms. I had done this many times with
these bears in the backcountry. They usually run away.

Sure enough, he turned tail and ran. It was remarkable to see him running
up a 45degree slope faster than I could run on flat ground. I've heard that
your only hope in outrunning a bear is downhill, because their front legs
are shorter than the back. I hope I never have to try this out. (All I
have to do is run/ride faster than Tami :-)

-Jeff Deeney- ©2006 DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
<a href="mailto:jldeeney&#64;c" target="_blank">jldeeney&#64;c</a> om c ast d ot net '99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94
XR650L-HellSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.

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#48: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 08:17:28 by CrashTestDummy

Excellent! Thanks Jeff!



On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:04:52 -0600, &quot;Jeff Deeney&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Here's my bear story.
&gt;
&gt;Back in Olympic National Park (Washington State) when I was in high school,
&gt;my brother and I hiked to the bottom of an incredibly steep ravine to fish
&gt;some of the pools in the bottom. We found a good pool with a nice gravel bar
&gt;on the other side. The only access to the beach was to cross a fallen tree.
&gt;The beach was otherwise surrounded by sheer cliffs.
&gt;
&gt;We were peeling some oranges for lunch when I looked up and saw a bear
&gt;halfway across our log, not 50' away. I recognized it as a black cinnamon
&gt;bear (only found in the Olympics). My brother freaked out when I jumped up
&gt;and started yelling and waving my arms. I had done this many times with
&gt;these bears in the backcountry. They usually run away.
&gt;
&gt;Sure enough, he turned tail and ran. It was remarkable to see him running
&gt;up a 45degree slope faster than I could run on flat ground. I've heard that
&gt;your only hope in outrunning a bear is downhill, because their front legs
&gt;are shorter than the back. I hope I never have to try this out. (All I
&gt;have to do is run/ride faster than Tami :-)
&gt;
&gt;-Jeff Deeney- ©2006 DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
&gt;<a href="mailto:jldeeney&#64;c" target="_blank">jldeeney&#64;c</a> om c ast d ot net '99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94
&gt;XR650L-HellSickle
&gt;We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
&gt;

CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#49: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 17:09:00 by outofthe

On 21 Jul 2006 05:41:57 -0700, &quot;GP&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:gplassmann&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">gplassmann&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; I know that this has nothing to do with Moose's but, yesterday
&gt;morning, on my commute to work, as I was riding my DRZ400S along one of
&gt;the back country roads leading away from my house to the big metropolis
&gt;of Ware Center, in a field off to the right I noticed what appeared to
&gt;be a cow running straight at me. There was a hedgerow along the road
&gt;side so my vision was somewhat obstructed as the trees and bushes
&gt;passed by. I thought to myself &quot;That is one fast cow!&quot;. And as I
&gt;continued down the road I thought &quot;That must be a dog!&quot; And as I came
&gt;to an opening to the field the beast had turned so as to run along side
&gt;of me, matching my speed and it was a BEAR! I instinctively twisted the
&gt;throttle and scooted down the road about 100 yards before I had the
&gt;nuts to look back. The bear was just standing there in the road looking
&gt;at me! I am pretty sure that it wanted to eat me.
&gt; It really shook me up, so I went to work, grabbed a cup of coffee, and
&gt;had a crappy day.
&gt; Greg

DAMN!!! I'm glad you're ok.

Hey... I've been working, albeit slowly, at getting the XR roadable so we
can ride. I just had to uh.... slow down... because... um.... my elbow
hurts. Yea... I can work because my elbow hurts. Get some pepper spray!

Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#50: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 18:15:03 by outofthe

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:04:52 -0600, &quot;Jeff Deeney&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Here's my bear story.
&gt;
&gt;Back in Olympic National Park (Washington State) when I was in high school,

Great story Jeff. Got one myself.

Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
breakfast out by the formal pool.

<a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Mike_W/Travel/pic024.jpg" target="_blank"> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Mike_W/Travel/pic024. jpg</a>

Fresh fruit... coffee... OJ... corn flakes. I was getting a late start, as
I'm prone to do, so there were only a few people dining out there. I opened
the WSJ and saw a reference to a possible bear market in tech stocks. It
almost slightly ruined my breakfast. The rest of my day was better though.

Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#51: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 18:21:37 by scrapeNOTHANKS

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:15:03 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.

How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?

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#52: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-22 19:46:52 by outofthe

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:21:37 GMT, scrape &lt;<a href="mailto:scrapeNOTHANKS&#64;nc.rr.com" target="_blank">scrapeNOTHANKS&#64;nc.rr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:15:03 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt;
&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?

Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?

Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#53: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 03:10:35 by DirtCrashr

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt;
&gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt;
&gt;Mike

I had a bear of a hangover a couple times...

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#54: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 04:11:51 by scrapeNOTHANKS

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt;
&gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?

I know that. Did the inferred smiley shit not pass the CT filter?

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#55: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 04:15:16 by scrapeNOTHANKS

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Did we pinch a tube this morning?

I'm way past that.
I'm considering going pro.
Changed a tube the other day in about 6 minutes once the wheel was off
the bike. 19&quot; 756 lest you start a bicycle joke or something.

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#56: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 08:22:39 by Charles Stembridge

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt; &gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt; &gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;Mike
&gt;
&gt; I had a bear of a hangover a couple times...

I've done what bears are reputed to do in the woods.

I can't believe I'm gonna hit &quot;Post&quot; on this one.

--
Charles
'99 YZ250

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#57: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 11:20:05 by CrashTestDummy

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:22:39 -0700, HardWorkingDog &lt;<a href="mailto:harvey&#64;mush.man" target="_blank">harvey&#64;mush.man</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;Mike
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I had a bear of a hangover a couple times...
&gt;
&gt;I've done what bears are reputed to do in the woods.
&gt;
&gt;I can't believe I'm gonna hit &quot;Post&quot; on this one.

Better to do, than be.


CrashTestDummy - '85 RM-250
<a href="mailto:f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net" target="_blank">f.j.bradfordREMOVE&#64;verizon.net</a>

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#58: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 19:24:24 by outofthe

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:11:51 GMT, scrape &lt;<a href="mailto:scrapeNOTHANKS&#64;nc.rr.com" target="_blank">scrapeNOTHANKS&#64;nc.rr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt;&gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt;&gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt;
&gt;I know that. Did the inferred smiley shit not pass the CT filter?

I was being cautious.

M


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#59: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 19:24:56 by outofthe

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:15:16 GMT, scrape &lt;<a href="mailto:scrapeNOTHANKS&#64;nc.rr.com" target="_blank">scrapeNOTHANKS&#64;nc.rr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt;
&gt;I'm way past that.
&gt;I'm considering going pro.
&gt;Changed a tube the other day in about 6 minutes once the wheel was off
&gt;the bike. 19&quot; 756 lest you start a bicycle joke or something.

Make a video and sell it. Burleson did. What the hell uses a 19?

Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P

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#60: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 23:24:42 by DirtCrashr

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:22:39 -0700, HardWorkingDog &lt;<a href="mailto:harvey&#64;mush.man" target="_blank">harvey&#64;mush.man</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;I've done what bears are reputed to do in the woods.
&gt;
&gt;I can't believe I'm gonna hit &quot;Post&quot; on this one.

It's the heat talking...

&gt;--
&gt;Charles
&gt;'99 YZ250

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#61: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-23 23:52:34 by IdaSpode

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:22:39 -0700, HardWorkingDog &lt;<a href="mailto:harvey&#64;mush.man" target="_blank">harvey&#64;mush.man</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens, taking
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;Mike
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I had a bear of a hangover a couple times...
&gt;
&gt;I've done what bears are reputed to do in the woods.

You will have to be a bit more specific. As far as I can tell, bears
do *everything* they do in the woods...

&gt;I can't believe I'm gonna hit &quot;Post&quot; on this one.

DJ

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#62: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-24 00:55:25 by Charles Stembridge

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:kqr7c25uh3lvm7qvqjhagi58bvce2m13ug&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">kqr7c25uh3lvm7qvqjhagi58bvce2m13ug&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
IdaSpode &lt;<a href="mailto:not&#64;home_watching.tv" target="_blank">not&#64;home_watching.tv</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:22:39 -0700, HardWorkingDog &lt;<a href="mailto:harvey&#64;mush.man" target="_blank">harvey&#64;mush.man</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">93j5c25h37ggvqjulqa4cs6q6nbrk49b0n&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; &gt; DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:52 -0400, Mike W. &lt;<a href="mailto:outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com" target="_blank">outofthe&#64;emailbiz.com</a>&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;Around 1998, I was staying at the Ritz-Carlton Huntington Gardens,
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;taking
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;breakfast out by the formal pool.
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;How is &quot;taking&quot; breakfast different than &quot;eating&quot; breakfast other than
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;having an overwhelmingly pretentious tone to it? Does the sausage
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;come from a snootier part of the pig, or what?
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Well, being pretentious was the joke. Did we pinch a tube this morning?
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Mike
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I had a bear of a hangover a couple times...
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;I've done what bears are reputed to do in the woods.
&gt;
&gt; You will have to be a bit more specific. As far as I can tell, bears
&gt; do *everything* they do in the woods...

I will leave it your (fertile) imagination.

--
Charles
'99 YZ250

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#63: Re: Moose encounters

Posted on 2006-07-24 00:55:25 by Charles Stembridge

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:d8q7c2dn7teg5k9rm3jc6fs64rqrs3sijm&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">d8q7c2dn7teg5k9rm3jc6fs64rqrs3sijm&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
DirtCrashr &lt;<a href="mailto:Dirt&#64;Crashr.com" target="_blank">Dirt&#64;Crashr.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt; On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:22:39 -0700, HardWorkingDog &lt;<a href="mailto:harvey&#64;mush.man" target="_blank">harvey&#64;mush.man</a>&gt;
&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt;I've done what bears are reputed to do in the woods.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;I can't believe I'm gonna hit &quot;Post&quot; on this one.
&gt;
&gt; It's the heat talking...

Heat, what heat? I'm shivering. (Isn't that the first sign of heat stroke?

--
Charles
'99 YZ250

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