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#1: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:05:16 by Nino NoSpam

Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K & N air filters for your Honda?
Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from the
factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?

Thanks,

Nino

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#2: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-15 22:02:34 by jmattis

Nino NoSpam wrote:
> Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K & N air filters for your Honda?
> Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
> upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
> savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from the
> factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nino

NO NO NO !!!
These filters clog up very very quickly because they have almost no
capacity to hold dirt. There is no meaningful performance increase,
either. The same kind of nutz that swear by them are the ones buying
100 dollar video cables, because they're "better" even though nobody
can see or hear the difference. If you want to waste your money, use
synthetic oil, at least it won't INCREASE your maintenance obligations.

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#3: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-15 23:30:01 by AZ Nomad

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt;Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt;upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
&gt;savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from the
&gt;factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?

they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void the
warranty.

Report this message

#4: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-18 03:50:31 by tegger

&quot;Nino NoSpam&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a<a href="mailto:>&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">>&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote in
news:w7aug.193342$<a href="mailto:IK3.97146&#64;pd7tw1no" target="_blank">IK3.97146&#64;pd7tw1no</a>:

&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
&gt; Honda?



Read this and then decide.
<a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>



&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay
&gt; $70-85 CAD upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean
&gt; really, where's the savings? If they were that good wouldn't
&gt; manufacturers install them from the factory? What about warranty? Do
&gt; they void the warranty?



if you develop engine problems, your use of a K&amp;N will *definitely* be
viewed very dimly by Honda and the dealer, and my well be used to
invalidate the warranty.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

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#5: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-18 18:13:36 by johnin

When it comes to high flow filters you have to ask yourself how can someone
claime to flow more air through an air filter and at the same time claime it still traps
just as good as leading stock filters?

I think its more like more airflow means more crap thats escaping through it
and into your engine! keep in mind something has to be sacrificed here for performance

one or the other and in my opinion they cant be that good of a filter to do both
things. all the performane you need is in the &quot;factory O.E. filter&quot; try this.. if you notice when you hold it up to the sun or shine a flashlight through it its pretty thin already you can see a lot of light through it compared to the aftermarket cheap replacements.

and O.E. are sprayed with the precise amaunt of oil on there unlike K&amp;N if you happen to over spray its going in and on places you dont whant.


--
johnin

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
View this thread: <a href="http://www.carstalk.net/viewtopic-433654.html" target="_blank">http://www.carstalk.net/viewtopic-433654.html</a>

Send from <a href="http://www.carstalk.net" target="_blank">http://www.carstalk.net</a>

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#6: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-18 20:19:18 by Earle Horton

&quot;Nino NoSpam&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a<a href="mailto:>&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">>&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:w7aug.193342$<a href="mailto:IK3.97146&#64;pd7tw1no..." target="_blank">IK3.97146&#64;pd7tw1no...</a>
&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
&gt; Honda? Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to
&gt; pay $70-85 CAD upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit?
&gt; I mean really, where's the savings? If they were that good wouldn't
&gt; manufacturers install them from the factory? What about warranty?
&gt; Do they void the warranty?
&gt;
Isn't your CR-V going off warranty already? The filter is good for the life
of the vehicle, unless you neglect it to the point that it suffers
mechanical damage during cleaning. If you do get one, then make sure to
keep it clean. Cleaning the element is a pain in the neck, but you do save
the cost of a new OEM style element every time you do it. In my opinion,
that would be the reason to get one. My wife's CR-V had one of these in it
when we bought it used. I am debating whether to keep it or not. I already
have a cleaning kit for the Turbo City Rock-It! Air Tube and K&amp;N I have on
my Jeep.

I have to be skeptical of claims that it flows significantly more air than a
stock OEM filter, unless you install a less restrictive air intake that fits
a significantly bigger filter element (like the one on my Jeep). These are
available for some vehicles, but in my opinion only warranted for extreme
use such as trailer towing or posing. You want the thing visible when you
open the hood, and you want it to make a sound you can hear. The K&amp;N for
the CR-V is just a boring drop-in replacement.

The kind of damage to be expected from a defective or inferior air cleaner
element is accelerated cylinder and piston wear. If your CR-V starts
blowing blue smoke and the oil needs to be refilled more often, then I guess
the nay-sayers were right.

Earle

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#7: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-19 01:50:45 by Bluzeguitar

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;e:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt;&gt;Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt;&gt;upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
&gt;&gt;savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from
the
&gt;&gt;factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;
&gt;they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void the
&gt;warranty.

FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer, using a
K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of these
filters in his customers cars.

I am curious though, what is the recommended maintainence period
assuming normal driving conditions? The manufacturer claims 50-100K,
IIRC.

Report this message

#8: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-19 08:51:03 by AZ Nomad

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;e:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
&gt;&gt;&gt;savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from
&gt;the
&gt;&gt;&gt;factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void the
&gt;&gt;warranty.

&gt;FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer, using a
&gt;K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of these
&gt;filters in his customers cars.

He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.

Report this message

#9: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-19 15:48:33 by Bluzeguitar

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's
the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from
&gt;&gt;the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void the
&gt;&gt;&gt;warranty.
&gt;
&gt;&gt;FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer, using a
&gt;&gt;K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;&gt;damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of
these
&gt;&gt;filters in his customers cars.
&gt;
&gt;He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.

And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty. Can you
prove that?

Report this message

#10: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-20 23:16:03 by gRmEcMgOrVeEw

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:48:33 -0500, <a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a> (Armand)
wrote:

&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
&gt;wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's
&gt;the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from
&gt;&gt;&gt;the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;warranty.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer, using a
&gt;&gt;&gt;K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;&gt;&gt;damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of
&gt;these
&gt;&gt;&gt;filters in his customers cars.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.
&gt;
&gt;And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty. Can you
&gt;prove that?

Use of aftermarket parts doesn't &quot;void the warranty&quot; but the
manufacturer can deny a claim if the damage was caused by the non-OEM
part. If push comes to shove, they have to prove that the part caused
the failure. If the cylinder walls are all scratched up and you have
a K&amp;N filter, they would probably win.

<a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>

I wouldn't worry much about the warranty being voided. Your engine
will probably last long enough to get out of the warranty period.

The K&amp;N filter lets in a lot more dirt than a top quality paper
filter. It may be less restrictive initially, but the difference
diminishes and disappears as the filter clogs with dirt. This will
probably happen sooner than with the paper filter.

Report this message

#11: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-20 23:36:49 by Bluzeguitar

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com" target="_blank">gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:48:33 -0500, <a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a> (Armand)
&gt;wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85
CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's
&gt;&gt;the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them
from
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void
the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer,
using a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of
&gt;&gt;these
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;filters in his customers cars.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty. Can
you
&gt;&gt;prove that?
&gt;
&gt;Use of aftermarket parts doesn't &quot;void the warranty&quot; but the
&gt;manufacturer can deny a claim if the damage was caused by the non-OEM
&gt;part. If push comes to shove, they have to prove that the part caused
&gt;the failure. If the cylinder walls are all scratched up and you have
&gt;a K&amp;N filter, they would probably win.
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;I wouldn't worry much about the warranty being voided. Your engine
&gt;will probably last long enough to get out of the warranty period.
&gt;
&gt;The K&amp;N filter lets in a lot more dirt than a top quality paper
&gt;filter. It may be less restrictive initially, but the difference
&gt;diminishes and disappears as the filter clogs with dirt. This will
&gt;probably happen sooner than with the paper filter.

I remember seeing that posted here when I asked about the filters a while
back which is why I didn't buy one. But for those that have, If anything does
happen, you could put the original OEM back in if you're worried about a
refusal to repair under warranty. My 96' Accord is long past it's warranty.

Report this message

#12: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 05:23:25 by jim beam

Armand wrote:
&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt; <a href="mailto:gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com" target="_blank">gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:48:33 -0500, <a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a> (Armand)
&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
&gt; Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85
&gt; CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's
&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them
&gt; from
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void
&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer,
&gt; using a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of
&gt;&gt;&gt; these
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; filters in his customers cars.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.
&gt;&gt;&gt; And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty. Can
&gt; you
&gt;&gt;&gt; prove that?
&gt;&gt; Use of aftermarket parts doesn't &quot;void the warranty&quot; but the
&gt;&gt; manufacturer can deny a claim if the damage was caused by the non-OEM
&gt;&gt; part. If push comes to shove, they have to prove that the part caused
&gt;&gt; the failure. If the cylinder walls are all scratched up and you have
&gt;&gt; a K&amp;N filter, they would probably win.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I wouldn't worry much about the warranty being voided. Your engine
&gt;&gt; will probably last long enough to get out of the warranty period.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The K&amp;N filter lets in a lot more dirt than a top quality paper
&gt;&gt; filter. It may be less restrictive initially, but the difference
&gt;&gt; diminishes and disappears as the filter clogs with dirt. This will
&gt;&gt; probably happen sooner than with the paper filter.
&gt;
&gt; I remember seeing that posted here when I asked about the filters a while
&gt; back which is why I didn't buy one. But for those that have, If anything does
&gt; happen, you could put the original OEM back in if you're worried about a
&gt; refusal to repair under warranty. My 96' Accord is long past it's warranty.
&gt;
putting the old filter back on may work with the dealer or it may not.
if a warranty claim really was push come to shove, you could examine the
cylinder walls under a microscope and clearly identify a discrepancy in
wear particle size, hence non-factory filtration.

Report this message

#13: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 06:03:43 by AZ Nomad

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:23:25 -0700, jim beam &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;example.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;example.net</a>&gt; wrote:


&gt;Armand wrote:
&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com" target="_blank">gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:48:33 -0500, <a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a> (Armand)
&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
&gt;&gt; Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85
&gt;&gt; CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them
&gt;&gt; from
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void
&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer,
&gt;&gt; using a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; these
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; filters in his customers cars.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty. Can
&gt;&gt; you
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prove that?
&gt;&gt;&gt; Use of aftermarket parts doesn't &quot;void the warranty&quot; but the
&gt;&gt;&gt; manufacturer can deny a claim if the damage was caused by the non-OEM
&gt;&gt;&gt; part. If push comes to shove, they have to prove that the part caused
&gt;&gt;&gt; the failure. If the cylinder walls are all scratched up and you have
&gt;&gt;&gt; a K&amp;N filter, they would probably win.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't worry much about the warranty being voided. Your engine
&gt;&gt;&gt; will probably last long enough to get out of the warranty period.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The K&amp;N filter lets in a lot more dirt than a top quality paper
&gt;&gt;&gt; filter. It may be less restrictive initially, but the difference
&gt;&gt;&gt; diminishes and disappears as the filter clogs with dirt. This will
&gt;&gt;&gt; probably happen sooner than with the paper filter.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I remember seeing that posted here when I asked about the filters a while
&gt;&gt; back which is why I didn't buy one. But for those that have, If anything does
&gt;&gt; happen, you could put the original OEM back in if you're worried about a
&gt;&gt; refusal to repair under warranty. My 96' Accord is long past it's warranty.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;putting the old filter back on may work with the dealer or it may not.
&gt;if a warranty claim really was push come to shove, you could examine the
&gt;cylinder walls under a microscope and clearly identify a discrepancy in
&gt;wear particle size, hence non-factory filtration.

Can you name a single time that has ever happened?

Report this message

#14: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 06:13:26 by jim beam

AZ Nomad wrote:
&gt; On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:23:25 -0700, jim beam &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;example.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;example.net</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Armand wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com" target="_blank">gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:48:33 -0500, <a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a> (Armand)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand &lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
&gt;&gt;&gt; Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85
&gt;&gt;&gt; CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them
&gt;&gt;&gt; from
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they void
&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer,
&gt;&gt;&gt; using a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will neither
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees alot of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; these
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; filters in his customers cars.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty. Can
&gt;&gt;&gt; you
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prove that?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Use of aftermarket parts doesn't &quot;void the warranty&quot; but the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; manufacturer can deny a claim if the damage was caused by the non-OEM
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; part. If push comes to shove, they have to prove that the part caused
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the failure. If the cylinder walls are all scratched up and you have
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a K&amp;N filter, they would probably win.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't worry much about the warranty being voided. Your engine
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will probably last long enough to get out of the warranty period.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The K&amp;N filter lets in a lot more dirt than a top quality paper
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; filter. It may be less restrictive initially, but the difference
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diminishes and disappears as the filter clogs with dirt. This will
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; probably happen sooner than with the paper filter.
&gt;&gt;&gt; I remember seeing that posted here when I asked about the filters a while
&gt;&gt;&gt; back which is why I didn't buy one. But for those that have, If anything does
&gt;&gt;&gt; happen, you could put the original OEM back in if you're worried about a
&gt;&gt;&gt; refusal to repair under warranty. My 96' Accord is long past it's warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; putting the old filter back on may work with the dealer or it may not.
&gt;&gt; if a warranty claim really was push come to shove, you could examine the
&gt;&gt; cylinder walls under a microscope and clearly identify a discrepancy in
&gt;&gt; wear particle size, hence non-factory filtration.
&gt;
&gt; Can you name a single time that has ever happened?

no i can't. i'm simply saying that it /is/ possible to tell, should
someone want to be that pedantic.

Report this message

#15: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 16:38:35 by Bluzeguitar

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:SqGdnYnCxoL7yV3ZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d&#64;speakeasy.net" target="_blank">SqGdnYnCxoL7yV3ZnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d&#64;speakeasy.net</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;example.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;example.net</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;AZ Nomad wrote:
&gt;&gt; On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:23:25 -0700, jim beam &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;example.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;example.net</a>&gt;
wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Armand wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com" target="_blank">87rvb2leukf05lucvaan9v3dkbvr0fd1h1&#64;4ax.com</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com" target="_blank">gRmEcMgOrVeEw&#64;mindspring.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:48:33 -0500, <a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>
(Armand)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article &lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebrliu.3gi.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:50:45 -0500, Armand
&lt;<a href="mailto:Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Bluzeguitar&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In article
&lt;<a href="mailto:slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net" target="_blank">slrnebinj7.9bm.aznomad&#64;ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net</a>&gt;,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com" target="_blank">aznomad&#64;PmunOgeBOX.com</a> says...
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:05:16 GMT, Nino NoSpam
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews" target="_blank">Nino.NoSpam&#64;unsubscribenews</a>&gt; wrot
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; e:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Honda?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay
$70-85
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; CAD
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really,
where
&gt;'s
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install
them
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; from
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they trade filtering performance for air flow performance and they
void
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; FWIW, according to the service manager at my local Honda dealer,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; using a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; K&amp;N air filter not only won't void the warranty, but he says it will
nei
&gt;ther
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; damage the engine nor increase performance. He says he sees
alot of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; these
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; filters in his customers cars.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; He doesn't speak for honda and your report is irrelevent.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And neither do you. You made the statement that it voids warranty.
Can
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; you
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; prove that?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Use of aftermarket parts doesn't &quot;void the warranty&quot; but the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; manufacturer can deny a claim if the damage was caused by the
non-OEM
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; part. If push comes to shove, they have to prove that the part caused
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the failure. If the cylinder walls are all scratched up and you have
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a K&amp;N filter, they would probably win.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I wouldn't worry much about the warranty being voided. Your engine
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; will probably last long enough to get out of the warranty period.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The K&amp;N filter lets in a lot more dirt than a top quality paper
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; filter. It may be less restrictive initially, but the difference
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; diminishes and disappears as the filter clogs with dirt. This will
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; probably happen sooner than with the paper filter.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I remember seeing that posted here when I asked about the filters a
while
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; back which is why I didn't buy one. But for those that have, If anything
do
&gt;es
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; happen, you could put the original OEM back in if you're worried about a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; refusal to repair under warranty. My 96' Accord is long past it's
warranty.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; putting the old filter back on may work with the dealer or it may not.
&gt;&gt;&gt; if a warranty claim really was push come to shove, you could examine
the
&gt;&gt;&gt; cylinder walls under a microscope and clearly identify a discrepancy in
&gt;&gt;&gt; wear particle size, hence non-factory filtration.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Can you name a single time that has ever happened?
&gt;
&gt;no i can't. i'm simply saying that it /is/ possible to tell, should
&gt;someone want to be that pedantic.

Bamboo shoots under the finger nails might lead to a confession too. ;}

Report this message

#16: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 19:17:37 by Chromedubs165db

I have used a K&amp;N filter on 3 different vehicles and not only did I
recieve better gas milage but I actually had to clean my throttle body
and intake manifold LESS with the K&amp;N. And it is also true you dont
need to clean it for at least 20,000, some at 50,000. The K&amp;N &quot;look
alikes are what you need to be cautious of, they will be more
restrictive and once they are wet they cannot be used again. I you
want better efficiency and performance from your engine you need a K&amp;N.
The K&amp;N does flow better but at the same time it does not let more dirt
through due to the oiled cotten element. The oil traps the dirt onto
the filter and does not allow it to enter the engine. If you do not
oil the filter you will deffinitly let dirt through.


--
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#17: OT: __ Were 'oil-bath' filters ever any good?

Posted on 2006-07-21 19:42:38 by motsco__

I was about 9 years old when I found out that an 'oil-bath' air filter
existed. Later I had a friend with an old Chev Biscayne (sp) that had a
similar thing. There was spoonfuls of sludge in the bottom of his. It
seemed logical to me, since dirt sticks to oil like s#it to a blanket.

Are / were they any good and why aren't they used on modern passenger
cars?

'Curly' (let the flames begin)

Report this message

#18: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 20:30:25 by AZ Nomad

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:17:37 -0700, Chromedubs165db &lt;<a href="mailto:Chromedubs165db.2bb2jb&#64;no-mx.nodomain.com" target="_blank">Chromedubs165db.2bb2jb&#64;no-mx.nodomain.com</a>&gt; wrote:



&gt;I have used a K&amp;N filter on 3 different vehicles and not only did I
&gt;recieve better gas milage but I actually had to clean my throttle body
&gt;and intake manifold LESS with the K&amp;N. And it is also true you dont

And of course you had two cars driven, one stock and one with the K&amp;N, at
the same time on the same routes so you might have the slightest validity to
your finding, right? Otherwise, your findings are no different than those
who think putting magnets on their fuel lines improve their gas mileage.

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#19: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-21 23:02:19 by gRmEcMgOrVeEw

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:23:25 -0700, jim beam &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;example.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;example.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I remember seeing that posted here when I asked about the filters a while
&gt;&gt; back which is why I didn't buy one. But for those that have, If anything does
&gt;&gt; happen, you could put the original OEM back in if you're worried about a
&gt;&gt; refusal to repair under warranty. My 96' Accord is long past it's warranty.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;putting the old filter back on may work with the dealer or it may not.
&gt;if a warranty claim really was push come to shove, you could examine the
&gt;cylinder walls under a microscope and clearly identify a discrepancy in
&gt;wear particle size, hence non-factory filtration.

Or they could find your post on the newsgroups stating you are using a
K&amp;N filter.

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#20: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-22 00:51:37 by MT-2500

'Curly Q. Links' Wrote:
&gt; I was about 9 years old when I found out that an 'oil-bath' air filter
&gt; existed. Later I had a friend with an old Chev Biscayne (sp) that had
&gt; a
&gt; similar thing. There was spoonfuls of sludge in the bottom of his. It
&gt; seemed logical to me, since dirt sticks to oil like s#it to a blanket.
&gt;
&gt; Are / were they any good and why aren't they used on modern passenger
&gt; cars?
&gt;
&gt; 'Curly' (let the flames begin)

Little off subject but a good point.

The old true oil bath filters are the best air filter made.
They catch a lot more real fine dust than the paper types.
They are still used on some HD equipment, stationary engines,farm
tractors.
One qt. of new oil and some cleaning and they are ready to go again.
But who wants to get there hands dirty and pay the extra cost of a good
oil bath filter on a new car.

Way back in the early 60's when I was working for a dealer cry/dodge
HD trucks went from oil bath to paper filters.
The dealership sold about a 100 HD trucks for cement hauling on
construction jobs.
In about 5K-10K miles on every one I was overhauling everyone and
installing a good HD oil bath air filter back on them.
Got so I could ring one one of them in my sleep.
The paper air filter would not catch the fine dust.
Modern car paper filters may be a little better but do not drive in a
lot of dust and dirt. A K&amp;N might work good there.
And if you do carry plenty of spare air filters.:grinyes: :rofl: :lol:

MT


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#21: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 00:40:24 by Felton Barch

Nino NoSpam wrote:
&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt; upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
&gt; savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from the
&gt; factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;
&gt; Thanks,
&gt;
&gt; Nino

Yo Nino,
I've been using K&amp;N filters on a Ford Explorer and Toyota Tundra (dont
have one yet for my Element) and I have been VERY happy with them. I
prefer high-quality reusable filters vs the disposable ones. Same is
true for my house air circulation system. I asked the people over at
K&amp;N to weigh in on this; here is the reply.
Great topic - thank you for bringing it up!!!!
-Steve
_________________________________________________________

The internet is full of thread akin to this. Many people
assume that they understand the nuances of filtration. There are so
many misconceptions in that thread alone it would take a good hour to
explain in type the how and whys. Then you would need to do this at
about 2K BBB's. K&amp;N filters meet and exceed factory air filters for
air flow, capacity holding and filter efficiency. All these are tested
using the ISO 5011 standards that all major air filter manufactures
use. The &quot;testand&quot; report is full of holes too. The author of
that report was invited to come to our facilities and bring what ever
filters he wanted to conduct the test as per the official ISO 5011.
his prior test was not done correctly. He did show up and did his
tests and is soon to write a follow up of this experience and his new
learning.

It is against the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ( A Federal
Trade Commission Law) for a dealer to decline warranty on a vehicle
because of use of a K&amp;N or any other aftermarket air filter.

These links may help you understand more.

<a href="http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm" target="_blank">http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm" target="_blank">http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm</a>


Read the second link in entirety. There is a wealth of information
there.

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#22: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 07:30:41 by gRmEcMgOrVeEw

On 22 Jul 2006 15:40:24 -0700, &quot;Felton Barch&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ballard4&#64;cox.net" target="_blank">ballard4&#64;cox.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;
&gt;Nino NoSpam wrote:
&gt;&gt; Does anyone know if it's worth it to buy K &amp; N air filters for your Honda?
&gt;&gt; Does it really improve gas mileage, and is it worth it to pay $70-85 CAD
&gt;&gt; upfront and then another $15.00 for the oil kit? I mean really, where's the
&gt;&gt; savings? If they were that good wouldn't manufacturers install them from the
&gt;&gt; factory? What about warranty? Do they void the warranty?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks,
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Nino
&gt;
&gt;Yo Nino,
&gt;I've been using K&amp;N filters on a Ford Explorer and Toyota Tundra (dont
&gt;have one yet for my Element) and I have been VERY happy with them. I
&gt;prefer high-quality reusable filters vs the disposable ones. Same is
&gt;true for my house air circulation system. I asked the people over at
&gt;K&amp;N to weigh in on this; here is the reply.
&gt;Great topic - thank you for bringing it up!!!!
&gt;-Steve
&gt;_________________________________________________________
&gt;
&gt; The internet is full of thread akin to this. Many people
&gt;assume that they understand the nuances of filtration. There are so
&gt;many misconceptions in that thread alone it would take a good hour to
&gt;explain in type the how and whys. Then you would need to do this at
&gt;about 2K BBB's. K&amp;N filters meet and exceed factory air filters for
&gt;air flow, capacity holding and filter efficiency. All these are tested
&gt;using the ISO 5011 standards that all major air filter manufactures
&gt;use. The &quot;testand&quot; report is full of holes too. The author of
&gt;that report was invited to come to our facilities and bring what ever
&gt;filters he wanted to conduct the test as per the official ISO 5011.
&gt;his prior test was not done correctly. He did show up and did his
&gt;tests and is soon to write a follow up of this experience and his new
&gt;learning.
&gt;
&gt; It is against the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ( A Federal
&gt;Trade Commission Law) for a dealer to decline warranty on a vehicle
&gt;because of use of a K&amp;N or any other aftermarket air filter.
&gt;
&gt;These links may help you understand more.
&gt;
&gt;<a href="http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm" target="_blank">http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm</a>

Which says in part:

&quot;This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability
for defects or damage caused by such &quot;unauthorized&quot; articles or
service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability
where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so
caused.&quot;

IOW, if Honda can show that your engine was damaged because the K&amp;N
filter let in too much dirt, they can deny your warranty claim.

Again, it probably doesn't matter because the engine will not be
destroyed during the 36K or 48K warranty period. If the filter lets
in 3X as much dirt, the engine will ingest ~150K worth of dirt by the
time the warranty expires. Since most engines don't expire from any
cause in 150K, it should still be working at 50K. What it is like
when it actually gets to 150K is another story.


&gt;<a href="http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm" target="_blank">http://www.knfilters.com/filter_facts.htm</a>
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Read the second link in entirety. There is a wealth of information
&gt;there.

A lot of theoretical arguments about why the reusable filter should be
better but not much in the way of hard data. They even admit they
aren't using the &quot;new&quot; ISO 5011 to generate what little data they do
provide. (ISO 5011 is at least two years old. You would think that a
company specializing in air filters could test them using the latest
procedure and post the results. If they really want to convince us,
they could test some OEM and other manufacturer's aftermarket filters
as well.)

Using the old test procedure, &quot;K&amp;N air filters generally achieve
overall filtration efficiency in the range of 97% - 98%.&quot; The
reference I posted:

<a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>

got an efficiency of 96.8% using ISO 5011. The paper filters tested
were mostly in the 98.63 to 99.93% range. That means that the K&amp;N
filter will admit 2 to 40 times more dirt into the engine.

Note far more information and data is this site. The K&amp;N site is long
on sales pitch but short on actual data.

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#23: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 15:30:37 by jim beam

Gordon McGrew wrote:
&lt;snip&gt;
&gt; Note far more information and data is this site. The K&amp;N site is long
&gt; on sales pitch but short on actual data.

you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
like that. ever seen the movie, &quot;thank you for smoking&quot;?. if not, rent
it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
whoever his name is.

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#24: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 18:10:36 by gRmEcMgOrVeEw

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:30:37 -0700, jim beam &lt;<a href="mailto:nospam&#64;example.net" target="_blank">nospam&#64;example.net</a>&gt;
wrote:

&gt;Gordon McGrew wrote:
&gt;&lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt; Note far more information and data is this site. The K&amp;N site is long
&gt;&gt; on sales pitch but short on actual data.
&gt;
&gt;you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
&gt;also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
&gt;living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
&gt;like that. ever seen the movie, &quot;thank you for smoking&quot;?. if not, rent
&gt;it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
&gt;whoever his name is.

Thanks for the tip. I like documentaries and consumer issues, so it
sounds like a must see.

I am aware of &quot;guerilla marketing&quot; tactics where (beautiful) people
are paid to go into public and pretend to be just people
surreptitiously exposing strangers to a brand/product. Creating
&quot;buzz&quot; you know. I think this type of activity should be illegal. If
they want to hawk their products in public they should be required to
state at the outset that they are paid marketers.

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#25: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 18:34:18 by Felton Barch

jim beam wrote:
&gt; Gordon McGrew wrote:
&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt; &gt; Note far more information and data is this site. The K&amp;N site is long
&gt; &gt; on sales pitch but short on actual data.
&gt;
&gt; you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
&gt; also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
&gt; living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
&gt; like that. ever seen the movie, &quot;thank you for smoking&quot;?. if not, rent
&gt; it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
&gt; whoever his name is.


Hey Jim Beam or whatever your name is -- I am not a sales troll. I am a
Honda owner (two of them) and thought I would participate in this
forum. I was simply providing MY OPINION and also allowing someone from
KnN an opportunity to WEIGH IN on the thread. Is that what this forum
is about?

You've made quite a personal SLAM here. I do not appreciate it AT ALL.
If you were standing in front of me, I bet you would not have the
courage to say that to my face.

Just because you dont like K&amp;N filters, and you obviously dont like any
opinions other than your own, next time you try to assassinate
someone's character, ask yourself: WOULD YOU HAVE THE GONADS TO SAY IT
TO THEIR FACE?

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#26: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 21:18:04 by jim beam

Felton Barch wrote:
&gt; jim beam wrote:
&gt;&gt; Gordon McGrew wrote:
&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Note far more information and data is this site. The K&amp;N site is long
&gt;&gt;&gt; on sales pitch but short on actual data.
&gt;&gt; you know that. i know that. felton or steve or whatever his name is,
&gt;&gt; also knows that. but he's a sales troll. some people actually make a
&gt;&gt; living out of trolling news groups, wikipedia, blogs, etc. with garbage
&gt;&gt; like that. ever seen the movie, &quot;thank you for smoking&quot;?. if not, rent
&gt;&gt; it. it's a tremendous story about people like steve or felton or
&gt;&gt; whoever his name is.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Hey Jim Beam or whatever your name is -- I am not a sales troll. I am a
&gt; Honda owner (two of them) and thought I would participate in this
&gt; forum. I was simply providing MY OPINION and also allowing someone from
&gt; KnN an opportunity to WEIGH IN on the thread. Is that what this forum
&gt; is about?
&gt;
&gt; You've made quite a personal SLAM here. I do not appreciate it AT ALL.
&gt; If you were standing in front of me, I bet you would not have the
&gt; courage to say that to my face.
&gt;
&gt; Just because you dont like K&amp;N filters, and you obviously dont like any
&gt; opinions other than your own, next time you try to assassinate
&gt; someone's character, ask yourself: WOULD YOU HAVE THE GONADS TO SAY IT
&gt; TO THEIR FACE?
&gt;
grow up felton or steve or whatever your name is. as it happens, i
would say it to your face. trust me on that one. but before we take
this out to the parking lot, here's some homework for you:

modern filtration standards that allow an engine to keep within
reasonable emissions levels for 100k miles, require filtration
efficiency of 99.8% by weight. typical road use particle size spectrum
is 0.01 microns to 2mm, with 75% being in the 5 to 100 micron range.

so, regarding this filter that you believe performs so well,

1. what is the filtration efficiency?
2. what is the particle size spectrum it filters?

and most importantly,

3. how does &quot;cleaning&quot; affect this filtration profile?

no hurry, but please take the trouble to let us know when you have the
answers. it would also be good to know your opinions on how many miles
you think is acceptable for engine life being as particle ingestion has
a direct effect on wear.

ps. you may find some independent research useful:
<a href="http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm" target="_blank">http://home.usadatanet.net/%7Ejbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm</a>

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#27: Re: K & N air filters--Are They Worth it?

Posted on 2006-07-23 22:23:35 by Felton Barch

&gt; &gt;
&gt; grow up felton or steve or whatever your name is. as it happens, i
&gt; would say it to your face. trust me on that one. but before we take
&gt; this out to the parking lot, here's some homework for you:



Yeah, I will get right on your homework assignment, right after I grow
up.

Real nice, jim beam. Enjoy yourself.

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