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#1: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-13 08:04:44 by BradandBrooks

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).

It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, =
exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.

Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the =
Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, =
but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a =
Mustang.

So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first =
mistake. (Grin.)

I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the =
other, and I'd like your thoughts.

First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want, =
the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What =
kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, =
would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. =
This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.=20

When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, "I haven't =
done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that." Okay, so minus =
the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 =
and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I =
had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?

The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing =
"c" springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be =
some money left over for some pulleys.

Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other =
would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the =
car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a =
blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the =
cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.

Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)

Thanks!

Brad




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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, =

exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills =
of the=20
Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, =
but=20
just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a =
Mustang.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my =
first=20
mistake. (Grin.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or =
the=20
other, and I'd like your thoughts.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I =
want, the=20
Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live.  What =
kind of=20
hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I =
have to=20
change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just =
add to the=20
cost, but I'm not sure how much. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, "I =
haven't=20
done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that."  Okay, so =
minus the=20
prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many =
hours on=20
the 6 and 9 do you think it would take?  Also, thought about this =
after, if=20
I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone =
know?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford =
Racing "c"=20
springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some =
money=20
left over for some pulleys.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the =
other=20
would be more complete.  But I can't do both. I do love to corner =
the car=20
hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a=20
blast.  But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I =
have the=20
cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing =
too.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Help me out guys. Summer is running out.  :)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brad</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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#2: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-13 21:12:09 by NoOption5L

BradandBrooks wrote:
> I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).

High elevation means your best deal is to go with a blower. Simple
bolt-ons won't make up for the loss of nearly 20% of your horsepower
you're losing at that altitude. Trust me, I lived/raced in Albuquerque
(5,300 feet) for 8 years.

Patrick
'93 Cobra


> It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
>
> Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.
>
> So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first mistake. (Grin.)
>
> I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the other, and I'd like your thoughts.
>
> First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
>
> When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, "I haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that." Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
>
> The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing "c" springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some pulleys.
>
> Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
>
> Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
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> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
> <DIV>I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
> exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the
> Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but
> just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
> mistake. (Grin.)</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
> other, and I'd like your thoughts.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want, the
> Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live.  What kind of
> hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to
> change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the
> cost, but I'm not sure how much. </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, "I haven't
> done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that."  Okay, so minus the
> prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on
> the 6 and 9 do you think it would take?  Also, thought about this after, if
> I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing "c"
> springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money
> left over for some pulleys.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other
> would be more complete.  But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car
> hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a
> blast.  But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the
> cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Help me out guys. Summer is running out.  :)</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Brad</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6A60F.F2D148C0--

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#3: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-13 21:29:12 by cds

I am not a big fan of the centrifugal blowers because they need to be
spun to 5,000 rpm to get any decent power from them. I like the twin
screw blows because they are more efficient and will increase horsepower
and torque from idle to redline. I have a Kenne Bell
Blowzilla/Flowzilla setup on my '89 LX and last time I had it on a dyno
it made 460 ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheels at 2,300 rpm. Take my
word for it, an engine with a high flat torque curve is a blast to
drive. Here's a link you should check out before making a final decision:

<a href="http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/blowzilla-flowzilla/blowzilla-flowzilla.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/blowzilla-flowzi lla/blowzilla-flowzilla.htm</a>


BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;
&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;
&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the
&gt; Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog,
&gt; but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.
&gt;
&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;
&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;
&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want,
&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What
&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly,
&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb.
&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;
&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't
&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus
&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6
&gt; and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I
&gt; had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;
&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing
&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be
&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;
&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other
&gt; would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the
&gt; car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a
&gt; blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the
&gt; cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt;
&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;
&gt; Thanks!
&gt;
&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;

Report this message

#4: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-14 00:53:59 by bobcowan

BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;
&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.

Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just from the altitude.
Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain that power back
and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best bang for the buck.
Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a 6# than 9# power levels.
--
..boB
Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

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#5: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-14 09:11:58 by BradandBrooks

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
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Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla. But, it's $1000 more. =
I just can't do that.

But I can do a 9lb Ford.=20

I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech about that =
9lb'er.

Thanks guys!

Brad

&quot;.boB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>&gt; wrote in message =
news:44b6cfb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com..." target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com...</a>
BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt; =20
&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,=20
&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.

Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just from =
the altitude.=20
Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain =
that power back=20
and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best bang =
for the buck.
Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a 6# than =
9# power levels.
--=20
.boB
Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C6A6E2.817E36F0
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charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
&lt;/HEAD&gt;
&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla.&amp;nbsp; But, it's =
$1000=20
more. I just can't do that.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;But I can do a 9lb Ford. &lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech about =
that=20
9lb'er.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Thanks guys!&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Brad&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D&quot;PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&quot;.boB&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nosp" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nosp</a>=
am.net&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt;=20
wrote in message &lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:44b6cfb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com" target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:44b6c=
fb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com" target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;BradandBrooks=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000=20
miles).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and =
2.73s. Oh,=20
I do have an X-pipe, &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the =
usual=20
little things.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Blower, no =
question.&amp;nbsp; We=20
lose almost 20% of our power just from the altitude. &lt;BR&gt;Worse in hot=20
weather.&amp;nbsp; If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain that =
power back=20
&lt;BR&gt;and then the power that sea level cars gain.&amp;nbsp; Blower is the =
best bang=20
for the buck.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Go with the 9#.&amp;nbsp; At =
this=20
altitude, it will be closer to a 6# than 9# power levels.&lt;BR&gt;--=20
&lt;BR&gt;.boB&lt;BR&gt;Arrived:&amp;nbsp; 2006 FXDI, Red.&lt;BR&gt;1997 HD FXDWG -=20
Turbocharged&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Stolen 11/26/05 in =
Denver&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
1HD1GEL10VY3200010&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; CO License J5822Z&lt;BR&gt;2001 Dodge =
Dakota QC=20
5.9/4x4/3.92&lt;BR&gt;1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver&lt;BR&gt;1965 FFR Cobra =
-&amp;nbsp;=20
427W EFI, Damn Fast.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;

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#6: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-14 19:31:28 by cds

No matter what blower you choose be sure and get a custom tune (i.e.
&quot;chip&quot;) based on dyno runs with air-fuel ratio reading taken. This is
necessary to keep you from running lean which can destroy your engine in
the blink of an eye. This is especially important if you are going to
run 9 psi. The more boost you run the hotter the intake air and the
easier for detonation to occur.

Also, I always say if you can't afford to rebuild your engine then you
have no business installing a blower. It takes a lot of money to make
horsepower RELIABLY. At 9 psi you should install larger injectors and
fuel pump along with the custom tuned chip.

BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla. But, it's $1000 more.
&gt; I just can't do that.
&gt;
&gt; But I can do a 9lb Ford.
&gt;
&gt; I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech about that
&gt; 9lb'er.
&gt;
&gt; Thanks guys!
&gt;
&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;.boB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>
&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>&gt;&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:44b6cfb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com..." target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com...</a>
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; &gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt; &gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;
&gt; Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just from
&gt; the altitude.
&gt; Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain
&gt; that power back
&gt; and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best
&gt; bang for the buck.
&gt; Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a 6#
&gt; than 9# power levels.
&gt; --
&gt; .boB
&gt; Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
&gt; 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
&gt; 1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
&gt; 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
&gt; 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
&gt; 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.

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#7: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-15 08:07:43 by BradandBrooks

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Thx.

Well, I can afford a rebuild, truthfully, I just don't want to. lol.

I never got to SVT today. Monday for sure. I'll bring up these points. =
THX!

Brad

&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&gt; wrote in message =
news:<a href="mailto:_J6dna5NOsJzSSrZnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d&#64;comcast.com..." target="_blank">_J6dna5NOsJzSSrZnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d&#64;comcast.com...</a>
No matter what blower you choose be sure and get a custom tune (i.e.=20
&quot;chip&quot;) based on dyno runs with air-fuel ratio reading taken. This is =

necessary to keep you from running lean which can destroy your engine =
in=20
the blink of an eye. This is especially important if you are going to =

run 9 psi. The more boost you run the hotter the intake air and the=20
easier for detonation to occur.

Also, I always say if you can't afford to rebuild your engine then you =

have no business installing a blower. It takes a lot of money to make =

horsepower RELIABLY. At 9 psi you should install larger injectors and =

fuel pump along with the custom tuned chip.

BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; Okay guys... 3/3 say blower. One says Flowzilla. But, it's $1000 =
more.=20
&gt; I just can't do that.
&gt; =20
&gt; But I can do a 9lb Ford.
&gt; =20
&gt; I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech about =
that=20
&gt; 9lb'er.
&gt; =20
&gt; Thanks guys!
&gt; =20
&gt; Brad
&gt; =20
&gt;=20
&gt; &quot;.boB&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>
&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>&gt;&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:44b6cfb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com..." target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com...</a>
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; &gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt; &gt;=20
&gt; &gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an =
X-pipe,
&gt; &gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;=20
&gt; Blower, no question. We lose almost 20% of our power just =
from
&gt; the altitude.
&gt; Worse in hot weather. If the blower is tuned correctly, you'll =
gain
&gt; that power back
&gt; and then the power that sea level cars gain. Blower is the best
&gt; bang for the buck.
&gt; Go with the 9#. At this altitude, it will be closer to a =
6#
&gt; than 9# power levels.
&gt; --=20
&gt; .boB
&gt; Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red.
&gt; 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver
&gt; 1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z
&gt; 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
&gt; 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
&gt; 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C6A7A2.B21F15C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
&lt;/HEAD&gt;
&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Thx.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Well, I can afford a rebuild, truthfully, I just don't want to. =
lol.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;I never got to SVT today. Monday for sure. I'll bring up these=20
points.&amp;nbsp; THX!&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Brad&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D&quot;PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt; wrote in message =
&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:<a href="mailto:_J6dna5NOsJzSSrZnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d&#64;comcast.com" target="_blank">_J6dna5NOsJzSSrZnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d&#64;comcast.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:_J6dna5NO=
<a href="mailto:sJzSSrZnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d&#64;comcast.com" target="_blank">sJzSSrZnZ2dnUVZ_oSdnZ2d&#64;comcast.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;No=20
matter what blower you choose be sure and get a custom tune (i.e. =
&lt;BR&gt;&quot;chip&quot;)=20
based on dyno runs with air-fuel ratio reading taken.&amp;nbsp; This is=20
&lt;BR&gt;necessary to keep you from running lean which can destroy your =
engine in=20
&lt;BR&gt;the blink of an eye.&amp;nbsp; This is especially important if you are =
going=20
to &lt;BR&gt;run 9 psi.&amp;nbsp; The more boost you run the hotter the intake =
air and=20
the &lt;BR&gt;easier for detonation to occur.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Also, I always say if =
you can't=20
afford to rebuild your engine then you &lt;BR&gt;have no business installing =
a=20
blower.&amp;nbsp; It takes a lot of money to make &lt;BR&gt;horsepower =
RELIABLY.&amp;nbsp;=20
At 9 psi you should install larger injectors and &lt;BR&gt;fuel pump along =
with the=20
custom tuned chip.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;BradandBrooks wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Okay guys... =
3/3 say=20
blower. One says Flowzilla.&amp;nbsp; But, it's $1000 more. &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I =
just can't=20
do that.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; But I can do a 9lb Ford.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp; =

&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I'm going to go back to SVT and have a talk with a real tech =
about=20
that &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; 9lb'er.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Thanks =
guys!&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;=20
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Brad&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; =
&quot;.boB&quot;=20
&amp;lt;&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nosp" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nosp</a>=
am.net&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
&amp;lt;&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4less.nospam.net</a>&quot;&gt;mailto:<a href="mailto:bobcowan&#64;access4le" target="_blank">bobcowan&#64;access4le</a>=
ss.nospam.net&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
wrote in message&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:44b6cfb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com" target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:44b6c=
fb0$0$30623$<a href="mailto:ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com" target="_blank">ec3e2dad&#64;news.usenetmonster.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nb=
sp;&amp;nbsp;=20
BradandBrooks wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;gt; I have =
a 93 GT=20
with pretty low mileage (about 40,000=20
miles).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;gt;=20
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;gt; It's totally stock with a =
5-spd=20
and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an =
X-pipe,&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &amp;gt;=20
exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
&lt;BR&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&a mp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Blower, =
no=20
question.&amp;nbsp; We lose almost 20% of our power just=20
from&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; the=20
altitude.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Worse in hot weather.&amp;nbsp; =
If the=20
blower is tuned correctly, you'll gain&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; =
that=20
power back&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; and then the power that sea =
level=20
cars gain.&amp;nbsp; Blower is the best&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; =
bang for=20
the =
buck.&lt;BR&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&a mp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Go=20
with the 9#.&amp;nbsp; At this altitude, it will be closer to a=20
6#&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; than 9# power=20
levels.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; -- =
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
.boB&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Arrived:&amp;nbsp; 2006 FXDI,=20
Red.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 1997 HD FXDWG - =
Turbocharged&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
Stolen 11/26/05 in=20
Denver&lt;BR&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&a mp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
1HD1GEL10VY3200010&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; CO License=20
J5822Z&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 2001 Dodge Dakota QC=20
5.9/4x4/3.92&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 1966 Mustang Coupe - =
Daily=20
Driver&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 1965 FFR Cobra -&amp;nbsp; 427W =
EFI, Damn=20
Fast.&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C6A7A2.B21F15C0--

Report this message

#8: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-15 20:00:42 by jmvannoy

BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;
&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;
&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.
&gt;
&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;
&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;
&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;
&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;
&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;
&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt;
&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;
&gt; Thanks!
&gt;
&gt; Brad

What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.

BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
$1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).

John

Report this message

#9: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-15 21:38:02 by cds

<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a> wrote:
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;
&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).

One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport
brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to
break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin
faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not be as
economical as they appear.

Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to
spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower.
In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from
2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have
to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting
like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell
blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available
at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but
big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.

Report this message

#10: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 08:43:49 by ItsMe

&quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt;&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the
&gt;&gt; Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog,
&gt;&gt; but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a
&gt;&gt; Mustang.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
&gt;&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
&gt;&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want,
&gt;&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What
&gt;&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly,
&gt;&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb.
&gt;&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't
&gt;&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus
&gt;&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6
&gt;&gt; and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I
&gt;&gt; had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing
&gt;&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be
&gt;&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other
&gt;&gt; would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car
&gt;&gt; hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a
&gt;&gt; blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the
&gt;&gt; cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;
&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;
&gt; John

Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my car
so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then most.
You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come with a
FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley you
need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which head
unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so make
sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A which can
handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO I say
go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way into
the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can have it
rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and other
improvements.

As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal
(ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow then
the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two types
of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power cause of
the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.

Nick

Report this message

#11: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 10:14:31 by BradandBrooks

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


&quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message =
news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;
&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, =
exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;
&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of =
the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a =
dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a =
Mustang.
&gt;
&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first =
mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;
&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or =
the other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;
&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I =
want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. =
What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more =
importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, =
unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how =
much.
&gt;
&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I =
haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so =
minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on =
the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, =
if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;
&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford =
Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there =
would be some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;
&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the =
other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner =
the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and =
that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I =
have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty =
enticing too.
&gt;
&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;
&gt; Thanks!
&gt;
&gt; Brad

What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.

BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
$1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).

John


John,

Is that really true? And you can get one for $1600? I can get the =
FRPP for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. =
Hmmmm... very interesting.

I would like the low end power, but really, don't you guys find that =
the 5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after =
that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?

I'm starting to get confused here. But that's a good thing - means I'm =
learning something. :)

Thanks!

Brad

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&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
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&lt;DIV&gt;&quot;&lt;A href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&lt;/A&gt;&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt; wrote in =
message=20
&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:1=
<a href="mailto:152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;BradandBrooks wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low =
mileage=20
(about 40,000 miles).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd =
and=20
2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All =
the usual=20
little things.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and =
being way=20
up in the foothills of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was =
a real=20
dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the =
5.0 on the=20
side of a Mustang.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer =
and=20
stopped in. That was my first mistake. (Grin.)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I've =
decided to=20
do one of two things. I only have money for one or the other, and I'd =
like=20
your thoughts.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb =
supercharger from=20
Ford. That's what I want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions =
testing=20
where I live.&amp;nbsp; What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give =
me? And,=20
more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head =
gaskets,=20
unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how=20
much.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do =
this he=20
said, &quot;I haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do =
that.&quot;&amp;nbsp;=20
Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how =
many hours=20
on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take?&amp;nbsp; Also, thought about =
this=20
after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? =
Anyone=20
know?&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out =
back and=20
some Ford Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). =
Maybe there=20
would be some money left over for some pulleys.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Both =
routes=20
would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other would be =
more=20
complete.&amp;nbsp; But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car hard =
(got=20
some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a =
blast.&amp;nbsp; But=20
I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the cash, and =
add=20
other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing =
too.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Help=20
me out guys. Summer is running out.&amp;nbsp; :)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
Thanks!&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Brad&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;What point in the power band do =
you want=20
the power?&amp;nbsp; Would you want to&lt;BR&gt;feel full boost at, say, 2000 =
rpm or=20
would you want the boost to roll&lt;BR&gt;on gradually and peak out at about =
5000 -=20
5500?&amp;nbsp; If you answered 2000&lt;BR&gt;rpm then you want a twin =
screw-type blower=20
like the Kenne Bell.&lt;BR&gt;Granted it is quite a bit more money but you =
know what=20
they say.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a =
rebadged=20
Powerdyne&lt;BR&gt;part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne =
9psi unit=20
for&lt;BR&gt;$1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same=20
retailer).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;John&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;John,&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Is that really true?&amp;nbsp; And you can get one for $1600?&amp;nbsp; I =
can get=20
the FRPP for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. =

Hmmmm... very interesting.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;I would like the low end power, but really, don't you guys find =
that the=20
5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after =
that. Plus=20
then, does traction become an issue?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;I'm starting to get confused here. But that's a good thing - =
means I'm=20
learning something. :)&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Thanks!&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Brad&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;

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#12: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 10:21:16 by BradandBrooks

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&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&gt; wrote in message =
news:<a href="mailto:Y7adnZy3UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com..." target="_blank">Y7adnZy3UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com...</a>
<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a> wrote:
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, =
exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills =
of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not =
a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of =
a Mustang.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my =
first mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or =
the other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I =
want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. =
What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more =
importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, =
unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how =
much.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I =
haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so =
minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on =
the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, =
if I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford =
Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there =
would be some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the =
other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner =
the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and =
that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I =
have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty =
enticing too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;=20
&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want =
to
&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to =
roll
&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered =
2000
&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;=20
&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit =
for
&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).

One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport=20
brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to=20
break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin=20
faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not be =
as=20
economical as they appear.

Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to=20
spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some =
horsepower.=20
In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from=20
2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have =

to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting=20
like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell=20
blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available =

at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but=20
big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.



True True True. torque is fun!!! I love torque. But I find the 325 or =
so my 5.0 has is lots (what is the 2006 Vette, 400?) It's the =
horsepower I want to build. Highway stuff. Am I not reading this right?

So then what is the hp and tq increase from a 6 or a 9lb? Any idea?

And okay, let me ask you another question... :) for the price of the =
blower, Ford offers heads, rollers, headers a few other pieces that =
equal the price of the blower and Ford says dynos at 305hp. So, that's =
about a wash... Pros, cons to this? I'd really like your guys thoughts.

Brad

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&lt;DIV&gt;&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt; wrote in message =
&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:<a href="mailto:Y7adnZy3UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com" target="_blank">Y7adnZy3UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:Y7adnZy3=
<a href="mailto:UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com" target="_blank">UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;A href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&lt;/A&gt; wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
BradandBrooks=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about =
40,000=20
miles).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and =
2.73s. Oh,=20
I do have an X-pipe, exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual =
little=20
things.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and =
being way=20
up in the foothills of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was =
a real=20
dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the =
5.0 on the=20
side of a Mustang.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; So, I was driving by an SVT =
dealer=20
and stopped in. That was my first mistake. =
(Grin.)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the =
other,=20
and I'd like your thoughts.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; First scenerio is =
get a=20
9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want, the Ford model, and =
there are=20
no emissions testing where I live.&amp;nbsp; What kind of hp and tq =
increases=20
would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, would I have to change the =
fuel=20
pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, =
but I'm=20
not sure how much.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; When I asked an SVT tech =
how many=20
hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would =
you want=20
to do that.&quot;&amp;nbsp; Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the =
crap out of=20
me) how many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take?&amp;nbsp; =
Also,=20
thought about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that =
void=20
warranty? Anyone know?&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; The other option is to =
go with=20
some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes =
(again, no=20
emissions). Maybe there would be some money left over for some=20
pulleys.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Both routes would be good, one car =
would be=20
more powerful, but the other would be more complete.&amp;nbsp; But I can't =
do=20
both. I do love to corner the car hard (got some really sticky and =
wide=20
Yokohamas on her) and that's a blast.&amp;nbsp; But I'm wondering if I =
shouldn't=20
just do the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But =
option=20
#2 is pretty enticing too.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Help me out guys. =
Summer is=20
running out.&amp;nbsp; :)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; =
Thanks!&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
Brad&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; What point in the power band do you want the=20
power?&amp;nbsp; Would you want to&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 =
rpm or=20
would you want the boost to roll&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; on gradually and peak out at =
about=20
5000 - 5500?&amp;nbsp; If you answered 2000&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; rpm then you want a =
twin=20
screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Granted it is quite a =
bit more=20
money but you know what they say.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; BTW the centrifugal =
blower=20
that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; part; I just did a =
quick=20
search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; $1599 and the =
FRPP-badged=20
version at $2074 (same retailer).&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;One thing I forgot to add was =
that=20
the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport &lt;BR&gt;brand) units use a belt to =
drive the=20
impeller which has a tendency to &lt;BR&gt;break quite often.&amp;nbsp; =
Especially on=20
the 9 psi units since they spin &lt;BR&gt;faster.&amp;nbsp; It costs about $500 =
a pop to=20
rebuild them so they may not be as &lt;BR&gt;economical as they =
appear.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Also,=20
you are right about power delivery.&amp;nbsp; I personally don't want to =
&lt;BR&gt;spin=20
the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower. =
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;=20
In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from =
&lt;BR&gt;2,500=20
rpm to redline.&amp;nbsp; With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have =
&lt;BR&gt;to=20
be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting =
&lt;BR&gt;like a=20
lunatic to keep the boost up.&amp;nbsp; for awhile I had my Kenne Bell =
&lt;BR&gt;blower=20
pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available &lt;BR&gt;at =
the=20
slightest blip on the throttle.&amp;nbsp; High rpm horsepower is OK but =
&lt;BR&gt;big=20
torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;True True True. torque is fun!!!&amp;nbsp; I love torque. But I find =
the 325=20
or so my 5.0 has is lots (what is the 2006 Vette, 400?)&amp;nbsp; It's the =

horsepower I want to build. Highway stuff.&amp;nbsp; Am I not reading this =

right?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;So then what is the hp and tq increase from a 6 or a 9lb?&amp;nbsp; =
Any=20
idea?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;And okay, let me ask you another question... :)&amp;nbsp; for the =
price of=20
the blower, Ford offers heads, rollers, headers a few other pieces =
that equal=20
the price of the blower and Ford says dynos at 305hp. So, that's about =
a=20
wash... Pros, cons to this?&amp;nbsp; I'd really like your guys =
thoughts.&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Brad&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;

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#13: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 10:35:23 by BradandBrooks

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&quot;Nicholas Anthony&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&gt; wrote in message =
news:uflug.2552$<a href="mailto:po4.635&#64;fe10.lga..." target="_blank">po4.635&#64;fe10.lga...</a>

&quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message=20
news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, =

&gt;&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills =
of the=20
&gt;&gt; Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a =
dog,=20
&gt;&gt; but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a=20
&gt;&gt; Mustang.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my =
first=20
&gt;&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or =
the=20
&gt;&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I =
want,=20
&gt;&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. =
What=20
&gt;&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more =
importantly,=20
&gt;&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the =
6lb.=20
&gt;&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I =
haven't=20
&gt;&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so =
minus=20
&gt;&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on =
the 6=20
&gt;&gt; and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, =
if I=20
&gt;&gt; had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford =
Racing=20
&gt;&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would =
be=20
&gt;&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the =
other=20
&gt;&gt; would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner =
the car=20
&gt;&gt; hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's =
a=20
&gt;&gt; blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I =
have the=20
&gt;&gt; cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing =
too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want =
to
&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to =
roll
&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered =
2000
&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;
&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit =
for
&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;
&gt; John

Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for =
my car=20
so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then =
most.=20
You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come =
with a=20
FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley =
you=20
need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which =
head=20
unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so =
make=20
sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A =
which can=20
handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO =
I say=20
go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way =
into=20
the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can have it =

rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and =
other=20
improvements.

As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the =
centrifugal=20
(ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow =
then=20
the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two =
types=20
of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power =
cause of=20
the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.

Nick=20


Thanks Nick. That's a lot of info to digest. I'm just going to print =
out all these messages and hand them to the SVT guys. lol! =20

So, how much power does a 6lb Powerdyne produce? Ford says a 9lb is =
about 40%. That's a lot. So, is a 6 about 25%? Care to offer thoughts =
on the NA route instead?

Thx!

Brad



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&lt;DIV&gt;&quot;Nicholas Anthony&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&lt;/A&gt;=
&amp;gt;=20
wrote in message &lt;A=20
=
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a&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;&lt;A href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&lt;/A&gt;&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt; wrote in =
message=20
&lt;BR&gt;&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:1=
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BradandBrooks wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low =
mileage (about=20
40,000 miles).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd =
and=20
2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe, &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; exhaust, subs, and timing =
bump.=20
All the usual little things.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Today, it got =
pretty warm=20
here (and being way up in the foothills of the &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Rockies =
where the=20
air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog, &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; =
but just=20
not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; =

Mustang.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer =
and=20
stopped in. That was my first &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; mistake.=20
(Grin.)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; I've decided to do one of two things. =
I only=20
have money for one or the &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; other, and I'd like your=20
thoughts.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb =
supercharger=20
from Ford. That's what I want, &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; the Ford model, and there =
are no=20
emissions testing where I live.&amp;nbsp; What &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; kind of hp and =
tq=20
increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly, &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; =
would I=20
have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb. =
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how=20
much.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours =
to do=20
this he said, &quot;I haven't &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would =
you=20
want to do that.&quot;&amp;nbsp; Okay, so minus &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; the prick (which =
also=20
scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6 &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; and 9 =
do you=20
think it would take?&amp;nbsp; Also, thought about this after, if I =
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone=20
know?&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; The other option is to go with some =
3.73s out=20
back and some Ford Racing &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes =
(again, no=20
emissions). Maybe there would be &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; some money left over for =
some=20
pulleys.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Both routes would be good, one car =
would be=20
more powerful, but the other &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; would be more =
complete.&amp;nbsp; But I=20
can't do both. I do love to corner the car &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; hard (got some =
really=20
sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; =
blast.&amp;nbsp; But=20
I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the =
&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing=20
too.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running =
out.&amp;nbsp;=20
:)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Thanks!&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;=20
Brad&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; What point in the power band do you want the =
power?&amp;nbsp;=20
Would you want to&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would =
you want=20
the boost to roll&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 -=20
5500?&amp;nbsp; If you answered 2000&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; rpm then you want a twin =
screw-type=20
blower like the Kenne Bell.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Granted it is quite a bit more =
money but=20
you know what they say.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; BTW the centrifugal blower =
that Ford=20
sells is a rebadged Powerdyne&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; part; I just did a quick search =
and=20
found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged =
version at=20
$2074 (same retailer).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; John&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Yes they are =
Powerdynes. I=20
purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my car &lt;BR&gt;so I don't harm =
my=20
engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then most. &lt;BR&gt;You can =
find them=20
around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come with a &lt;BR&gt;FMU which =
saves=20
you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley you &lt;BR&gt;need a =
by pass=20
valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which head &lt;BR&gt;unit you =
are=20
getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so make &lt;BR&gt;sure =
that is=20
what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A which can =
&lt;BR&gt;handle=20
upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO I say =
&lt;BR&gt;go=20
for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way =
into=20
&lt;BR&gt;the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can =
have it=20
&lt;BR&gt;rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and =
other=20
&lt;BR&gt;improvements.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also =
keep in=20
mind the centrifugal &lt;BR&gt;(ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler =
and allow=20
a denser air flow then &lt;BR&gt;the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). =
Henceforth you=20
can have the two types &lt;BR&gt;of blowers producing 6psi but the =
centrifugal will=20
give more power cause of &lt;BR&gt;the denser air flow. Just some more food =
for=20
thought.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Nick &lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Thanks Nick. That's a lot of info to digest. I'm just going to =
print out=20
all these messages and hand them to the SVT guys. lol!&amp;nbsp; &lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;So, how much power does a 6lb Powerdyne produce? Ford says a 9lb =
is about=20
40%. That's a lot. So, is a 6 about 25%?&amp;nbsp; Care to offer thoughts =
on the=20
NA route instead?&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Thx!&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Brad&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;

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Report this message

#14: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 16:36:25 by jmvannoy

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
&gt;
&gt; One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport
&gt; brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to
&gt; break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin
&gt; faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not be as
&gt; economical as they appear.
&gt;
&gt; Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to
&gt; spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower.
&gt; In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from
&gt; 2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have
&gt; to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting
&gt; like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell
&gt; blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available
&gt; at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but
&gt; big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.

Mr. Johnson,
What R&amp;P ratio do you have in this torquey-horsey car of yours?

Report this message

#15: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 16:48:18 by jmvannoy

BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; John,
&gt; Is that really true? And you can get one for $1600? I can get the FRPP for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. Hmmmm... very interesting.
&gt; I would like the low end power, but really, don't you guys find that the 5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?
&gt; I'm starting to get confused here. But that's a good thing - means I'm learning something. :)
&gt; Thanks!
&gt; Brad

do a web search on &quot;powerdyne supercharger&quot;.

I also have a 93 GT (although with a lot more miles than yours). I
have done quite a bit of research on the issues you bring up. I would
summarize it like this: The centrifugals are best for the track (where
you're &quot;winding out&quot; every gear as a rule), and the twin screws like
Whipple and Kenne Bell are best for the street because, let's face it,
how often do you really hit 5500 rpm driving around town. A lot of
people say the KB on the 5.0 feels like a big block; they say it feels
more like big displacement than forced induction.

I have also researched doing a NA build up as you mentioned. Lots of
people get big power without a traditional &quot;power adder&quot;. The question
is, what gives you the most bang for the buck. For most of us, that's
a power adder.

John

Report this message

#16: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:03:45 by cds

<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a> wrote:
&gt; Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
&gt;&gt; One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport
&gt;&gt; brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to
&gt;&gt; break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin
&gt;&gt; faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not be as
&gt;&gt; economical as they appear.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to
&gt;&gt; spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower.
&gt;&gt; In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from
&gt;&gt; 2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have
&gt;&gt; to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting
&gt;&gt; like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell
&gt;&gt; blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available
&gt;&gt; at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but
&gt;&gt; big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.
&gt;
&gt; Mr. Johnson,
&gt; What R&amp;P ratio do you have in this torquey-horsey car of yours?

I have 3.55s which are really too high (numerically) for the torque it
puts out. I wish I had kept the stock 3.08s or maybe went with 3.27s.

Report this message

#17: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:15:29 by cds

BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; &quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote
&gt; in message news:<a href="mailto:Y7adnZy3UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com..." target="_blank">Y7adnZy3UI-D2STZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d&#64;giganews.com...</a>
&gt; <a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a> &lt;mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&gt; wrote:
&gt; &gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt; &gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an
&gt; X-pipe, exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the
&gt; foothills of the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real
&gt; dog. Well, not a dog, but just not what you expect when you see the
&gt; 5.0 on the side of a Mustang.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my
&gt; first mistake. (Grin.)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one
&gt; or the other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what
&gt; I want, the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I
&gt; live. What kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And,
&gt; more importantly, would I have to change the fuel pump and head
&gt; gaskets, unlike the 6lb. This will just add to the cost, but I'm not
&gt; sure how much.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I
&gt; haven't done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot;
&gt; Okay, so minus the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how
&gt; many hours on the 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought
&gt; about this after, if I had a speed shop install it, would that void
&gt; warranty? Anyone know?
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford
&gt; Racing &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there
&gt; would be some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but
&gt; the other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to
&gt; corner the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on
&gt; her) and that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do
&gt; the SC while I have the cash, and add other things later. But option
&gt; #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt; &gt;&gt; Brad
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you
&gt; want to
&gt; &gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt; &gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt; &gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt; &gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt; &gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt; &gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;
&gt; One thing I forgot to add was that the Powerdyne (aka Ford Motorsport
&gt; brand) units use a belt to drive the impeller which has a tendency to
&gt; break quite often. Especially on the 9 psi units since they spin
&gt; faster. It costs about $500 a pop to rebuild them so they may not
&gt; be as
&gt; economical as they appear.
&gt;
&gt; Also, you are right about power delivery. I personally don't want to
&gt; spin the engine to 5,000+ rpm every time I want to get some horsepower.
&gt; In third gear I can accelerate like I was shot out of a canon from
&gt; 2,500 rpm to redline. With a centrifugal, in third gear, I would have
&gt; to be running near 90 mph to be in the power band or be down shifting
&gt; like a lunatic to keep the boost up. for awhile I had my Kenne Bell
&gt; blower pullied for 16 psi and right of idle I had all 16 psi available
&gt; at the slightest blip on the throttle. High rpm horsepower is OK but
&gt; big torque is what makes driving REALLY fun, IMHO.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; True True True. torque is fun!!! I love torque. But I find the 325
&gt; or so my 5.0 has is lots (what is the 2006 Vette, 400?) It's the
&gt; horsepower I want to build. Highway stuff. Am I not reading this right?

The torque you are seeing at the wheels is probably much less,
especially with the altitude in your area. I can tell you that 460
ft-lbs at the rear wheels is light years ahead of the stock output.

&gt; So then what is the hp and tq increase from a 6 or a 9lb? Any idea?

A rule of thumb for a car near sea level is 8-12 horsepower per psi of
boost depending on any other modifications you have made. Substantial
torque increases with a centrifugal blower will be limited to
4,500-5,000 rpm and above. The power band of a centrifugal is narrow
where a twin screw's is across the entire rpm range.

&gt; And okay, let me ask you another question... :) for the price of
&gt; the blower, Ford offers heads, rollers, headers a few other pieces
&gt; that equal the price of the blower and Ford says dynos at 305hp. So,
&gt; that's about a wash... Pros, cons to this? I'd really like your
&gt; guys thoughts.

If you were at sea level I would definitely recommend going with a
head/cam/intake swap. It would give you about the same hp/tq (280
rwhp/rwtq) improvement as a supercharger at 6-8 psi and it would be much
more reliable. Since you are at a higher altitude I think a blower is a
better choice. Since you are at a higher altitude you can probably run
higher boost without the temperature penalty you would see at sea level.
I really suggest you try and get a ride in two cars, one with each
tyoe of blower. The twin screw will feel like you have a strong
running, high revving 500 cubic inch engine under the hood. The
centrifugal will feel almost stock until 4,500-5,000 rpm and then the
power comes on fast and furious.

Report this message

#18: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:20:45 by cds

Nicholas Anthony wrote:
&gt; &quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt;&gt;&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the
&gt;&gt;&gt; Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog,
&gt;&gt;&gt; but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a
&gt;&gt;&gt; Mustang.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
&gt;&gt;&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
&gt;&gt;&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want,
&gt;&gt;&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What
&gt;&gt;&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly,
&gt;&gt;&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb.
&gt;&gt;&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't
&gt;&gt;&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus
&gt;&gt;&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6
&gt;&gt;&gt; and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I
&gt;&gt;&gt; had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be
&gt;&gt;&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other
&gt;&gt;&gt; would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car
&gt;&gt;&gt; hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a
&gt;&gt;&gt; blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the
&gt;&gt;&gt; cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
&gt;&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt;&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt;&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt;&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt;&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt;&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; John
&gt;
&gt; Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my car
&gt; so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then most.
&gt; You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come with a
&gt; FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley you
&gt; need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which head
&gt; unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so make
&gt; sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A which can
&gt; handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO I say
&gt; go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way into
&gt; the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can have it
&gt; rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and other
&gt; improvements.
&gt;
&gt; As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal
&gt; (ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow then
&gt; the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two types
&gt; of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power cause of
&gt; the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.

For the 5.0L engines there are no current Roots kits offered. He would
have to go with a Kenne Bell kit. The twin screws are more efficient
than the centrifugals and make less heat from compression. They also
take much less hp to drive them at the same boost levels. The down side
of the twin screw is there are no intercooler options for the 5.0L
engines. I get around this by using water injection that is just as
effective as an intercooler and in many respects is better.

Report this message

#19: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-16 19:35:23 by cds

<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a> wrote:
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; John,
&gt;&gt; Is that really true? And you can get one for $1600? I can get the FRPP for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. Hmmmm... very interesting.
&gt;&gt; I would like the low end power, but really, don't you guys find that the 5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks after that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?
&gt;&gt; I'm starting to get confused here. But that's a good thing - means I'm learning something. :)
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt; do a web search on &quot;powerdyne supercharger&quot;.
&gt;
&gt; I also have a 93 GT (although with a lot more miles than yours). I
&gt; have done quite a bit of research on the issues you bring up. I would
&gt; summarize it like this: The centrifugals are best for the track (where
&gt; you're &quot;winding out&quot; every gear as a rule), and the twin screws like
&gt; Whipple and Kenne Bell are best for the street because, let's face it,
&gt; how often do you really hit 5500 rpm driving around town. A lot of
&gt; people say the KB on the 5.0 feels like a big block; they say it feels
&gt; more like big displacement than forced induction.

The power curve of a twin screw is very similar to a N/A one except it
is amplified across the rpm range for both torque and horsepower. If I
put someone in a car with a twin screw and they couldn't hear the blower
whining they would be hard pressed to tell whether it had a big block or
a small block with the blower. I can modulate the power very easy with
the throttle. If I want more power I just press the accelerator down
more and let up for less. I can accelerate and easily keep the tires at
the edge of traction or if I want send them up in a cloud of smoke.

You definitely right about the twin screw being a very good blower for a
street driven car. I can enjoy the power it makes in just about any
driving situation. One of the best times is coming out of a curve in
third gear and accelerating like a rocket from 2,500 rpm to redline. It
never fails to put a smile on my face. :)

&gt; I have also researched doing a NA build up as you mentioned. Lots of
&gt; people get big power without a traditional &quot;power adder&quot;. The question
&gt; is, what gives you the most bang for the buck. For most of us, that's
&gt; a power adder.

One other thing I have learned is that trying to make big horsepower
increases on the cheap usually ends up costing most than doing it right
from the beginning. As the old saying goes, &quot;You have to pay to play&quot;.
Another is &quot;Horsepower costs money. How fast do you want to go?&quot;

Report this message

#20: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-17 06:51:59 by BradandBrooks

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C6A92A.72A4A070
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Okay guys. Thanks for ALL the information!

I got tons to think about now. lol

You are all very knowledgeable and helpful and I thank you for taking =
the time to help!

Brad

&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&gt; wrote in message =
news:<a href="mailto:obKdnfIl7Zt-5SfZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d&#64;giganews.com..." target="_blank">obKdnfIl7Zt-5SfZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d&#64;giganews.com...</a>
<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a> wrote:
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; John,
&gt;&gt; Is that really true? And you can get one for $1600? I can get =
the FRPP for $2000. That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. =
Hmmmm... very interesting.
&gt;&gt; I would like the low end power, but really, don't you guys find =
that the 5.0 has enough power from idle to 3,500 rpm? I find it lacks =
after that. Plus then, does traction become an issue?
&gt;&gt; I'm starting to get confused here. But that's a good thing - =
means I'm learning something. :)
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;=20
&gt; do a web search on &quot;powerdyne supercharger&quot;.
&gt;=20
&gt; I also have a 93 GT (although with a lot more miles than yours). I
&gt; have done quite a bit of research on the issues you bring up. I =
would
&gt; summarize it like this: The centrifugals are best for the track =
(where
&gt; you're &quot;winding out&quot; every gear as a rule), and the twin screws like
&gt; Whipple and Kenne Bell are best for the street because, let's face =
it,
&gt; how often do you really hit 5500 rpm driving around town. A lot of
&gt; people say the KB on the 5.0 feels like a big block; they say it =
feels
&gt; more like big displacement than forced induction.

The power curve of a twin screw is very similar to a N/A one except it =

is amplified across the rpm range for both torque and horsepower. If =
I=20
put someone in a car with a twin screw and they couldn't hear the =
blower=20
whining they would be hard pressed to tell whether it had a big block =
or=20
a small block with the blower. I can modulate the power very easy =
with=20
the throttle. If I want more power I just press the accelerator down=20
more and let up for less. I can accelerate and easily keep the tires =
at=20
the edge of traction or if I want send them up in a cloud of smoke.

You definitely right about the twin screw being a very good blower for =
a=20
street driven car. I can enjoy the power it makes in just about any=20
driving situation. One of the best times is coming out of a curve in=20
third gear and accelerating like a rocket from 2,500 rpm to redline. =
It=20
never fails to put a smile on my face. :)

&gt; I have also researched doing a NA build up as you mentioned. Lots =
of
&gt; people get big power without a traditional &quot;power adder&quot;. The =
question
&gt; is, what gives you the most bang for the buck. For most of us, =
that's
&gt; a power adder.

One other thing I have learned is that trying to make big horsepower=20
increases on the cheap usually ends up costing most than doing it =
right=20
from the beginning. As the old saying goes, &quot;You have to pay to =
play&quot;.=20
Another is &quot;Horsepower costs money. How fast do you want to go?&quot;
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C6A92A.72A4A070
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&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
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&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
&lt;/HEAD&gt;
&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Okay guys.&amp;nbsp; Thanks for ALL the information!&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;I got tons to think about now. lol&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;You are all very knowledgeable and helpful and I thank you for =
taking the=20
time to help!&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;Brad&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D&quot;PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
&lt;DIV&gt;&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;A=20
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;&amp;gt; wrote in message =
&lt;A=20
=
href=3D&quot;news:<a href="mailto:obKdnfIl7Zt-5SfZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d&#64;giganews.com" target="_blank">obKdnfIl7Zt-5SfZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d&#64;giganews.com</a>&quot;&gt;news:obKdnfIl=
<a href="mailto:7Zt-5SfZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d&#64;giganews.com" target="_blank">7Zt-5SfZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d&#64;giganews.com</a>&lt;/A&gt;...&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;A=20
href=3D&quot;mailto:<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot;&gt;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&lt;/A&gt; wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; BradandBrooks=20
wrote:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; John,&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Is that =
really=20
true?&amp;nbsp; And you can get one for $1600?&amp;nbsp; I can get the FRPP =
for $2000.=20
That;s the cost of a new fuel pump and the gasket. Hmmmm... very=20
interesting.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; I would like the low end power, =
but=20
really, don't you guys find that the 5.0 has enough power from idle to =
3,500=20
rpm? I find it lacks after that. Plus then, does traction become an=20
issue?&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; I'm starting to get confused here. But =
that's a=20
good thing - means I'm learning something. :)&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
Thanks!&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Brad&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; do a web search =
on=20
&quot;powerdyne supercharger&quot;.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I also have a 93 GT =
(although with=20
a lot more miles than yours).&amp;nbsp; I&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; have done quite a bit of =

research on the issues you bring up.&amp;nbsp; I would&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; summarize =
it like=20
this:&amp;nbsp; The centrifugals are best for the track (where&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
you're=20
&quot;winding out&quot; every gear as a rule), and the twin screws like&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
Whipple=20
and Kenne Bell are best for the street because, let's face it,&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
how=20
often do you really hit 5500 rpm driving around town.&amp;nbsp; A lot =
of&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
people say the KB on the 5.0 feels like a big block; they say it =
feels&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
more like big displacement than forced induction.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;The power =
curve of a=20
twin screw is very similar to a N/A one except it &lt;BR&gt;is amplified =
across the=20
rpm range for both torque and horsepower.&amp;nbsp; If I &lt;BR&gt;put someone =
in a car=20
with a twin screw and they couldn't hear the blower &lt;BR&gt;whining they =
would be=20
hard pressed to tell whether it had a big block or &lt;BR&gt;a small block =
with the=20
blower.&amp;nbsp; I can modulate the power very easy with &lt;BR&gt;the =
throttle.&amp;nbsp;=20
If I want more power I just press the accelerator down &lt;BR&gt;more and =
let up for=20
less.&amp;nbsp; I can accelerate and easily keep the tires at &lt;BR&gt;the edge =
of=20
traction or if I want send them up in a cloud of smoke.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;You =
definitely=20
right about the twin screw being a very good blower for a &lt;BR&gt;street =
driven=20
car.&amp;nbsp; I can enjoy the power it makes in just about any =
&lt;BR&gt;driving=20
situation.&amp;nbsp; One of the best times is coming out of a curve in =
&lt;BR&gt;third=20
gear and accelerating like a rocket from 2,500 rpm to redline.&amp;nbsp; =
It=20
&lt;BR&gt;never fails to put a smile on my face. :)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; I have also=20
researched doing a NA build up as you mentioned.&amp;nbsp; Lots of&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
people=20
get big power without a traditional &quot;power adder&quot;.&amp;nbsp; The =
question&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
is, what gives you the most bang for the buck.&amp;nbsp; For most of us,=20
that's&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; a power adder.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;One other thing I have learned is =
that=20
trying to make big horsepower &lt;BR&gt;increases on the cheap usually ends =
up=20
costing most than doing it right &lt;BR&gt;from the beginning.&amp;nbsp; As the =
old=20
saying goes, &quot;You have to pay to play&quot;. &lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp; Another is =
&quot;Horsepower=20
costs money.&amp;nbsp; How fast do you want to =
go?&quot;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C6A92A.72A4A070--

Report this message

#21: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 09:40:25 by ItsMe

&quot;BradandBrooks&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:BradandBrooks&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">BradandBrooks&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:fTmug.192905$<a href="mailto:Mn5.110736&#64;pd7tw3no..." target="_blank">Mn5.110736&#64;pd7tw3no...</a>

&quot;Nicholas Anthony&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:uflug.2552$<a href="mailto:po4.635&#64;fe10.lga..." target="_blank">po4.635&#64;fe10.lga...</a>

&quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt;&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of the
&gt;&gt; Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a dog,
&gt;&gt; but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a
&gt;&gt; Mustang.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
&gt;&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
&gt;&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want,
&gt;&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What
&gt;&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly,
&gt;&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb.
&gt;&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't
&gt;&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus
&gt;&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the 6
&gt;&gt; and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if I
&gt;&gt; had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing
&gt;&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be
&gt;&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the other
&gt;&gt; would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner the car
&gt;&gt; hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and that's a
&gt;&gt; blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while I have the
&gt;&gt; cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty enticing too.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;
&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;
&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;
&gt; John

Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my car
so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then most.
You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come with a
FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger pulley you
need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them which head
unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer model so make
sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a the XB-1A which can
handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost allot more. IMO I say
go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its a great entry way into
the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles and you can have it
rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with kevlar belts and other
improvements.

As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal
(ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow then
the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two types
of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power cause of
the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.

Nick


Thanks Nick. That's a lot of info to digest. I'm just going to print out all
these messages and hand them to the SVT guys. lol!

So, how much power does a 6lb Powerdyne produce? Ford says a 9lb is about
40%. That's a lot. So, is a 6 about 25%? Care to offer thoughts on the NA
route instead?

Thx!

Brad

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, I am at my max of multi tasking
atm lol. I showed a gain of 50hp with the 6lb pulley. I am happy with it but
will certainly add an Anderson pipe, upgraded the fuel pump to a 255lb,
bought an 11lb pulley which is really cutting it close to max for rpm, may
have the computer redone, and a by pass valve. I am hoping to see much
improved results so I dont have to do aluminum heads, intake, and cam right
away. Power is addicting for sure. :)

Report this message

#22: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 09:52:21 by ItsMe

&quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:v-6dnUncTLzv6CfZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d&#64;giganews.com..." target="_blank">v-6dnUncTLzv6CfZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d&#64;giganews.com...</a>
&gt; Nicholas Anthony wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mustang.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; enticing too.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;&gt;&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
&gt;&gt;&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt;&gt;&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt;&gt;&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt;&gt;&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt;&gt;&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt;&gt;&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; John
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my
&gt;&gt; car so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then
&gt;&gt; most. You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come
&gt;&gt; with a FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger
&gt;&gt; pulley you need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them
&gt;&gt; which head unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer
&gt;&gt; model so make sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a
&gt;&gt; the XB-1A which can handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost
&gt;&gt; allot more. IMO I say go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its
&gt;&gt; a great entry way into the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles
&gt;&gt; and you can have it rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with
&gt;&gt; kevlar belts and other improvements.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal
&gt;&gt; (ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow
&gt;&gt; then the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two
&gt;&gt; types of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power
&gt;&gt; cause of the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.
&gt;
&gt; For the 5.0L engines there are no current Roots kits offered. He would
&gt; have to go with a Kenne Bell kit. The twin screws are more efficient than
&gt; the centrifugals and make less heat from compression. They also take much
&gt; less hp to drive them at the same boost levels. The down side of the twin
&gt; screw is there are no intercooler options for the 5.0L engines. I get
&gt; around this by using water injection that is just as effective as an
&gt; intercooler and in many respects is better.

The Roots type forces less dense air into the car were as a centrifugal is a
colder denser charge. Also the higher rpm hp is less with the screw type. I
can see arguments going back and forth on this for sometime on which is
better. IMO if someone is interested do allot more research while you ask
around.

Here is a nice link I found with information.
<a href="http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5" target="_blank">http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5</a>

Here is the keypoints of each type:

Centrifugal Type Supercharging

Recommended Usage:
Street Use - Commercial Use - Road Racing - Drag Racing


Positive Points:
1) Lots of Flexibility for Power Adjustments
2) Lower Discharge Temperatures
3) Great Reliability
4) Easy to install

Negative Points:
1) Not as much power at low RPMs as Roots or Screw type superchargers

Manufacturer Availability:
Paxton - Powerdyne - ProCharger - Vortech

Roots Type Supercharging

Recommended Usage:
Street Use - Towing - Extreme Drag Racing - Show Vehicles


Positive Points:
1) Boost throughout the entire RPM range, right off of idle
2) Highest Potential for Gain (A must-have for all-out drag racing)
3) Excellent Reliability
4) Great Appearance &amp; Stature (Most common supercharger type for show
vehicles)

Negative Points:
1) Sometimes Violent Throttle Response
2) Lower boost ratings at higher RPMs
3) Higher Than Normal Discharge Temperatures
4) Lengthy installation times

Manufacturer Availability:
Allen Engine Development - BDS - Magna Charger - B&amp;M- Holley -
Littlefield - Mooneyham - Weiand



Screw Type Supercharging

Recommended Usage:
Street Use - Towing - Road Racing - Drag Racing


Positive Points:
1) Great Power at Low RPMs (Great for Towing)
3) Factory Fit &amp; Appearance
4) Great Reliability

Negative Points:
1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is very
flat)
2) Challenging To Achieve High Boost Levels or CFMs
3) Lengthy installation times

Manufacturer Availability:
Kenne Belle - Whipple

Report this message

#23: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 14:24:40 by joe

&quot;Nicholas Anthony&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&gt; wrote in
news:KUFwg.2977$<a href="mailto:Sc7.164&#64;fe12.lga" target="_blank">Sc7.164&#64;fe12.lga</a>:

&lt;lots of good &amp; bad stuff snipped&gt;
&gt; Here is a nice link I found with information.
&gt; <a href="http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5" target="_blank">http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5</a>
&gt;
&gt; Here is the keypoints of each type:
&gt;
&gt; Centrifugal Type Supercharging
&gt;
&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; Street Use - Commercial Use - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt;
&gt; Positive Points:
&gt; 1) Lots of Flexibility for Power Adjustments
&gt; 2) Lower Discharge Temperatures
&gt; 3) Great Reliability
&gt; 4) Easy to install
&gt;
&gt; Negative Points:
&gt; 1) Not as much power at low RPMs as Roots or Screw type superchargers

So then why do they recommend it for street use? Are they only thinking
high-winding ricemobiles?

&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; Paxton - Powerdyne - ProCharger - Vortech
&gt;
&gt; Roots Type Supercharging
&gt;
&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; Street Use - Towing - Extreme Drag Racing - Show Vehicles
&gt;
&gt; Positive Points:
&gt; 1) Boost throughout the entire RPM range, right off of idle
&gt; 2) Highest Potential for Gain (A must-have for all-out drag
&gt; racing) 3) Excellent Reliability
&gt; 4) Great Appearance &amp; Stature (Most common supercharger type for
&gt; show
&gt; vehicles)

If it's a show vehicle, what's a blower doing on it anyway? It ain't even
gonna be used...

&gt; Negative Points:
&gt; 1) Sometimes Violent Throttle Response

So instantaneous power is a bad thing? Or are they saying that you can
lose control because of the massive amount of power right off of idle? If
you can't control your car with that much power you shouldn't have a
blower.

&gt; 2) Lower boost ratings at higher RPMs
&gt; 3) Higher Than Normal Discharge Temperatures
&gt; 4) Lengthy installation times
&gt;
&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; Allen Engine Development - BDS - Magna Charger - B&amp;M- Holley -
&gt; Littlefield - Mooneyham - Weiand
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Screw Type Supercharging
&gt;
&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; Street Use - Towing - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt;
&gt; Positive Points:
&gt; 1) Great Power at Low RPMs (Great for Towing)
&gt; 3) Factory Fit &amp; Appearance
&gt; 4) Great Reliability
&gt;
&gt; Negative Points:
&gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt; very flat)

I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.

&gt; 2) Challenging To Achieve High Boost Levels or CFMs
&gt; 3) Lengthy installation times
&gt;
&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; Kenne Belle - Whipple

To simplify, if you'll be winding out your engine and you prefer your
powerband up in the higher end, a turbo or centrifugal is appropriate. If
you want additional power in the lower-RPM range, the roots or screw is
appropriate.

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Report this message

#24: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 15:15:57 by fishinjts

Joe wrote:
&gt; &quot;Nicholas Anthony&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt; news:KUFwg.2977$<a href="mailto:Sc7.164&#64;fe12.lga" target="_blank">Sc7.164&#64;fe12.lga</a>:
&gt;
&gt; &lt;lots of good &amp; bad stuff snipped&gt;
&gt; &gt; Here is a nice link I found with information.
&gt; &gt; <a href="http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5" target="_blank">http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Here is the keypoints of each type:
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Centrifugal Type Supercharging
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; &gt; Street Use - Commercial Use - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Positive Points:
&gt; &gt; 1) Lots of Flexibility for Power Adjustments
&gt; &gt; 2) Lower Discharge Temperatures
&gt; &gt; 3) Great Reliability
&gt; &gt; 4) Easy to install
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Negative Points:
&gt; &gt; 1) Not as much power at low RPMs as Roots or Screw type superchargers
&gt;
&gt; So then why do they recommend it for street use? Are they only thinking
&gt; high-winding ricemobiles?

My Vortech's boost starts at just over 3,000 RPM and climbs until I
shift at around 5,900 at which point it's at about 9PSI... I will
agree that it is missing the low-end grunt, especially after getting
used to the torque I was getting out of the N20... but for around town
and the occasional trip to the track I really like the centr. s/c.
Actually I didn't think i was going to like it... but I'm actually very
satisfied with it...
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; &gt; Paxton - Powerdyne - ProCharger - Vortech
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Roots Type Supercharging
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; &gt; Street Use - Towing - Extreme Drag Racing - Show Vehicles
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Positive Points:
&gt; &gt; 1) Boost throughout the entire RPM range, right off of idle
&gt; &gt; 2) Highest Potential for Gain (A must-have for all-out drag
&gt; &gt; racing) 3) Excellent Reliability
&gt; &gt; 4) Great Appearance &amp; Stature (Most common supercharger type for
&gt; &gt; show
&gt; &gt; vehicles)
&gt;
&gt; If it's a show vehicle, what's a blower doing on it anyway? It ain't even
&gt; gonna be used...
&gt;

Actually my car is a multi-purpose car! It's DD... It's race car...
It's a show car... LOL!

I agree though.. a Roots type sitting on top of the motor is sexier
than a centrify all plumbed up on the front of the motor... However..
I did get a win at the local car show yesterday... knocked off some
nice F-Bodys, couple of Vettes and some entries from the local
low-rider club... Let's hear it for the Mustang!! LOL!


&gt; &gt; Negative Points:
&gt; &gt; 1) Sometimes Violent Throttle Response
&gt;
&gt; So instantaneous power is a bad thing? Or are they saying that you can
&gt; lose control because of the massive amount of power right off of idle? If
&gt; you can't control your car with that much power you shouldn't have a
&gt; blower.
&gt;

I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.. but the way it was explained to me is
it can make your car drive like an On / Off switch... which in itself
may not be a bad thing but might get a bit tiresome if you r car is a
DD and you roast the tires at every stop light..... With the Vortech
the power comes on a bit smoother, definitely not a light switch...
LOL!!

&gt; &gt; 2) Lower boost ratings at higher RPMs
&gt; &gt; 3) Higher Than Normal Discharge Temperatures
&gt; &gt; 4) Lengthy installation times
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; &gt; Allen Engine Development - BDS - Magna Charger - B&amp;M- Holley -
&gt; &gt; Littlefield - Mooneyham - Weiand
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Screw Type Supercharging
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; &gt; Street Use - Towing - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Positive Points:
&gt; &gt; 1) Great Power at Low RPMs (Great for Towing)
&gt; &gt; 3) Factory Fit &amp; Appearance
&gt; &gt; 4) Great Reliability
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Negative Points:
&gt; &gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt; &gt; very flat)
&gt;
&gt; I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.
&gt;
&gt; &gt; 2) Challenging To Achieve High Boost Levels or CFMs
&gt; &gt; 3) Lengthy installation times
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; &gt; Kenne Belle - Whipple
&gt;
&gt; To simplify, if you'll be winding out your engine and you prefer your
&gt; powerband up in the higher end, a turbo or centrifugal is appropriate. If
&gt; you want additional power in the lower-RPM range, the roots or screw is
&gt; appropriate.
&gt;
&gt; Joe
&gt; Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
&gt; Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Report this message

#25: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 15:40:36 by Gill

Joe wrote:

&gt;&gt;Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt;&gt;very flat)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.

If RPMs are going up and power is flat, then torque must be going down.
That's why I can't keep that grin off my face around 4000RPMs (still
within the speed limits) buy crackers.

--
Tropic Green Y2K Mustang GT
W/bits &amp; pieces
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/eh99n" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/eh99n</a>

Report this message

#26: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 16:31:46 by cds

Nicholas Anthony wrote:
&gt; &quot;Michael Johnson, PE&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:cds&#64;erols.com" target="_blank">cds&#64;erols.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:v-6dnUncTLzv6CfZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d&#64;giganews.com..." target="_blank">v-6dnUncTLzv6CfZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d&#64;giganews.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; Nicholas Anthony wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;<a href="mailto:JohnV&#64;nn" target="_blank">JohnV&#64;nn</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com" target="_blank">jmvannoy&#64;gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt;&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1152986442.666039.157450&#64;75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BradandBrooks wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have a 93 GT with pretty low mileage (about 40,000 miles).
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It's totally stock with a 5-spd and 2.73s. Oh, I do have an X-pipe,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; exhaust, subs, and timing bump. All the usual little things.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Today, it got pretty warm here (and being way up in the foothills of
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the Rockies where the air is thin), the car was a real dog. Well, not a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dog, but just not what you expect when you see the 5.0 on the side of a
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mustang.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, I was driving by an SVT dealer and stopped in. That was my first
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mistake. (Grin.)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I've decided to do one of two things. I only have money for one or the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; other, and I'd like your thoughts.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; First scenerio is get a 9lb supercharger from Ford. That's what I want,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the Ford model, and there are no emissions testing where I live. What
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; kind of hp and tq increases would a 9lb give me? And, more importantly,
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; would I have to change the fuel pump and head gaskets, unlike the 6lb.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This will just add to the cost, but I'm not sure how much.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When I asked an SVT tech how many hours to do this he said, &quot;I haven't
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; done a 5.0 in years... why would you want to do that.&quot; Okay, so minus
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the prick (which also scares the crap out of me) how many hours on the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 6 and 9 do you think it would take? Also, thought about this after, if
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I had a speed shop install it, would that void warranty? Anyone know?
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The other option is to go with some 3.73s out back and some Ford Racing
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;c&quot; springs and long tubes (again, no emissions). Maybe there would be
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; some money left over for some pulleys.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Both routes would be good, one car would be more powerful, but the
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; other would be more complete. But I can't do both. I do love to corner
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the car hard (got some really sticky and wide Yokohamas on her) and
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that's a blast. But I'm wondering if I shouldn't just do the SC while
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have the cash, and add other things later. But option #2 is pretty
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; enticing too.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Help me out guys. Summer is running out. :)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks!
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Brad
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What point in the power band do you want the power? Would you want to
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; feel full boost at, say, 2000 rpm or would you want the boost to roll
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on gradually and peak out at about 5000 - 5500? If you answered 2000
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rpm then you want a twin screw-type blower like the Kenne Bell.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Granted it is quite a bit more money but you know what they say.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; BTW the centrifugal blower that Ford sells is a rebadged Powerdyne
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; part; I just did a quick search and found the Powerdyne 9psi unit for
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; $1599 and the FRPP-badged version at $2074 (same retailer).
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; John
&gt;&gt;&gt; Yes they are Powerdynes. I purchased the 6lb kit as a small boost for my
&gt;&gt;&gt; car so I don't harm my engine and no oil line taps and its quieter then
&gt;&gt;&gt; most. You can find them around the $1500 price check Ebay. They also come
&gt;&gt;&gt; with a FMU which saves you a few hundred bucks. If you go for a larger
&gt;&gt;&gt; pulley you need a by pass valve and a larger in tank fuel pump. Ask them
&gt;&gt;&gt; which head unit you are getting with the kit. The BD11-a is the newer
&gt;&gt;&gt; model so make sure that is what you are getting. The next step up is a
&gt;&gt;&gt; the XB-1A which can handle upto 18psi and are fine at low levels but cost
&gt;&gt;&gt; allot more. IMO I say go for the Ford Powerdyne if money is an issue. Its
&gt;&gt;&gt; a great entry way into the world of s/c the belts are rated for 50k miles
&gt;&gt;&gt; and you can have it rebuilt down the road for just over $300-500 with
&gt;&gt;&gt; kevlar belts and other improvements.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; As far as centrifugal vs roots blowers also keep in mind the centrifugal
&gt;&gt;&gt; (ex: Powerdyne, Procharger) will be cooler and allow a denser air flow
&gt;&gt;&gt; then the roots (ex: Whipple, Kenne Bell). Henceforth you can have the two
&gt;&gt;&gt; types of blowers producing 6psi but the centrifugal will give more power
&gt;&gt;&gt; cause of the denser air flow. Just some more food for thought.
&gt;&gt; For the 5.0L engines there are no current Roots kits offered. He would
&gt;&gt; have to go with a Kenne Bell kit. The twin screws are more efficient than
&gt;&gt; the centrifugals and make less heat from compression. They also take much
&gt;&gt; less hp to drive them at the same boost levels. The down side of the twin
&gt;&gt; screw is there are no intercooler options for the 5.0L engines. I get
&gt;&gt; around this by using water injection that is just as effective as an
&gt;&gt; intercooler and in many respects is better.
&gt;
&gt; The Roots type forces less dense air into the car were as a centrifugal is a
&gt; colder denser charge. Also the higher rpm hp is less with the screw type. I
&gt; can see arguments going back and forth on this for sometime on which is
&gt; better. IMO if someone is interested do allot more research while you ask
&gt; around.
&gt;
&gt; Here is a nice link I found with information.
&gt; <a href="http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5" target="_blank">http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5</a>

Personally, I wouldn't put too much credibility to this site, or for
that many any site, that sells superchargers for a profit. There are
many incorrect statements in the text you quoted.

&gt; Here is the keypoints of each type:
&gt;
&gt; Centrifugal Type Supercharging
&gt;
&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; Street Use - Commercial Use - Road Racing - Drag Racing

Most commercial uses need low/mid range torque for towing or hauling
heavy loads etc. It is rather inconvenient, unreliable and uneconomical
to spin an engine to 5,000+ rpm to pull a load. Nearly all trucks,
recreation vehicles etc. that need a blower use a Roots or twin screw
type. Plus, most heavy commercial trucks use turbochargers.

&gt; Positive Points:
&gt; 1) Lots of Flexibility for Power Adjustments

What does this mean?

&gt; 2) Lower Discharge Temperatures

Lower than a Roots blower but not a twin screw.

&gt; 3) Great Reliability

Roots and twin screws are rated to last 200k-300k miles. A centrifugal
is not rated that long. OEMs use Roots blowers because they are cheap
and extremely reliable.

&gt; 4) Easy to install

Most non-intercooled systems are easier to install compared to a
Roots/twin screw. Throw in an intercooler and they are just as complicated.

&gt; Negative Points:
&gt; 1) Not as much power at low RPMs as Roots or Screw type superchargers
&gt;
&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; Paxton - Powerdyne - ProCharger - Vortech
&gt;
&gt; Roots Type Supercharging
&gt;
&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; Street Use - Towing - Extreme Drag Racing - Show Vehicles
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Positive Points:
&gt; 1) Boost throughout the entire RPM range, right off of idle
&gt; 2) Highest Potential for Gain (A must-have for all-out drag racing)
&gt; 3) Excellent Reliability
&gt; 4) Great Appearance &amp; Stature (Most common supercharger type for show
&gt; vehicles)
&gt;
&gt; Negative Points:
&gt; 1) Sometimes Violent Throttle Response

It's called torque, not &quot;violent throttle response&quot;. This is a
laughable statement. A negative? Not hardly. Plus the power is easily
modulated with the throttle. They make it sound like the throttle is an
on/off switch.

&gt; 2) Lower boost ratings at higher RPMs

With a roots blower this is true to a certain extent. However, it
usually occurs because the size of blower used is too small for the
boost level desired on a particular engine displacement.

&gt; 3) Higher Than Normal Discharge Temperatures

This is very true.

&gt; 4) Lengthy installation times

Not necessarily true. Most kits are just a little more complicated than
installing a centrifugal blower.

&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; Allen Engine Development - BDS - Magna Charger - B&amp;M- Holley -
&gt; Littlefield - Mooneyham - Weiand
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Screw Type Supercharging
&gt;
&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt; Street Use - Towing - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Positive Points:
&gt; 1) Great Power at Low RPMs (Great for Towing)

Or launching with slicks bolted to the rear. Or just sending tires up
in a cloud of smoke. Or effortlessly passing a car without down
shifting. You get my point. ;)

&gt; 3) Factory Fit &amp; Appearance
&gt; 4) Great Reliability

True. Twin screws will typically out live the engine.

In addition, twin screws take the least amount of hp to spin per psi of
boost, they have the lowest discharge temperatures, are quiet, provide
full rated boost from idle to redline. Also, the statement that twin
screw don't provide high rpm horsepower is BS. They are great for it.
With all the low end torque they produce the engine can be setup to be a
high rpm monster with no low/mid range torque/drivability penalty. Do
this with a centrifugal blower and it would be a disaster for
drivability. Take a look at the dyno charts at the link below and tell
me if power drops off at higher rpms. :)

<a href="http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05-06_3v.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/gt05-06_3v/gt05- 06_3v.htm</a>

&gt; Negative Points:
&gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is very
&gt; flat)

This is just a flat out false statement. It is the torque curve that is
flat, not the hp curve. A flat torque curve is a good thing. Look at
the curves in the above link.

&gt; 2) Challenging To Achieve High Boost Levels or CFMs

WTF are they talking about? Put the right size blower on an engine and
it will move all the air you need at any psi level you want. This is an
idiotic statement and quite scary from someone claiming to be a blower
expert.

&gt; 3) Lengthy installation times

Not really. The Kenne Bell kits can be done in a about a day or two
depending on the installer's experience level. Add an intercooler to a
centrifugal (most Kenne Bell kits are intercooled now) and the
installation time is nearly identical.

&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt; Kenne Belle - Whipple

The Kenne Bell kits for the Mustangs provide the biggest hp increases
per psi of boost of any supercharger type. Their 8.5 psi intercooled
kit makes 456 rear wheel hp on an otherwise stock '05+ GT. This is the
same as 536 hp at the crank and is 90 rwhp more than a stock 03-04
Cobra. ProCharger, Vortech, Paxton etc. can't match them psi to psi on
identical engines. Also, the area under the torque/hp curves for twin
screws is greater which makes them faster at the track than centrifugals
when peak hp levels are equal. Typically, a twin screw will run the
same ETs as a centrifugal with 30-40 less rwhp with weight etc. being
equal between the cars.

Just to clarify, the difference between Roots and twin screw blowers is
a Roots is an air pump and the twin screw is a compressor. The Roots
moves air to the intake manifold which is where it gets compressed.
Also, there is a slight reversal in the direction of air flow because of
this since the manifold air is at a higher pressure than the air in the
blower. This flow reversal heats up the air more and makes the Roots
less efficient. The twin screw compresses the air in the blower not the
intake manifold so the air flows one way all the time. This lets the
discharge temps be much cooler than a Roots and even cooler than a
centrifugal, psi for psi of boost. It also makes twin screws more
efficient.

Report this message

#27: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 16:42:38 by cds

John S. wrote:
&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;&gt; &quot;Nicholas Anthony&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net" target="_blank">nospamforme&#64;soptonline.net</a>&gt; wrote in
&gt;&gt; news:KUFwg.2977$<a href="mailto:Sc7.164&#64;fe12.lga" target="_blank">Sc7.164&#64;fe12.lga</a>:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &lt;lots of good &amp; bad stuff snipped&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Here is a nice link I found with information.
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5" target="_blank">http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=5</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Here is the keypoints of each type:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Centrifugal Type Supercharging
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Street Use - Commercial Use - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Positive Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Lots of Flexibility for Power Adjustments
&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Lower Discharge Temperatures
&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Great Reliability
&gt;&gt;&gt; 4) Easy to install
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Not as much power at low RPMs as Roots or Screw type superchargers
&gt;&gt; So then why do they recommend it for street use? Are they only thinking
&gt;&gt; high-winding ricemobiles?
&gt;
&gt; My Vortech's boost starts at just over 3,000 RPM and climbs until I
&gt; shift at around 5,900 at which point it's at about 9PSI... I will
&gt; agree that it is missing the low-end grunt, especially after getting
&gt; used to the torque I was getting out of the N20... but for around town
&gt; and the occasional trip to the track I really like the centr. s/c.
&gt; Actually I didn't think i was going to like it... but I'm actually very
&gt; satisfied with it...

Your last sentence is what it is all about. If you're happy who cares
what I think. ;)

&gt;&gt;&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Paxton - Powerdyne - ProCharger - Vortech
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Roots Type Supercharging
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Street Use - Towing - Extreme Drag Racing - Show Vehicles
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Positive Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Boost throughout the entire RPM range, right off of idle
&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Highest Potential for Gain (A must-have for all-out drag
&gt;&gt;&gt; racing) 3) Excellent Reliability
&gt;&gt;&gt; 4) Great Appearance &amp; Stature (Most common supercharger type for
&gt;&gt;&gt; show
&gt;&gt;&gt; vehicles)
&gt;&gt; If it's a show vehicle, what's a blower doing on it anyway? It ain't even
&gt;&gt; gonna be used...
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Actually my car is a multi-purpose car! It's DD... It's race car...
&gt; It's a show car... LOL!
&gt;
&gt; I agree though.. a Roots type sitting on top of the motor is sexier
&gt; than a centrify all plumbed up on the front of the motor... However..
&gt; I did get a win at the local car show yesterday... knocked off some
&gt; nice F-Bodys, couple of Vettes and some entries from the local
&gt; low-rider club... Let's hear it for the Mustang!! LOL!

Us twin screw guys see the centrifugals as a hair dryer on steroids. :)

&gt;&gt;&gt; Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Sometimes Violent Throttle Response
&gt;&gt; So instantaneous power is a bad thing? Or are they saying that you can
&gt;&gt; lose control because of the massive amount of power right off of idle? If
&gt;&gt; you can't control your car with that much power you shouldn't have a
&gt;&gt; blower.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I wouldn't say it's a bad thing.. but the way it was explained to me is
&gt; it can make your car drive like an On / Off switch... which in itself
&gt; may not be a bad thing but might get a bit tiresome if you r car is a
&gt; DD and you roast the tires at every stop light..... With the Vortech
&gt; the power comes on a bit smoother, definitely not a light switch...
&gt; LOL!!

In some ways I thing the twin screw/Roots blowers are easier to control
power delivery than a centrifugal. The power for a centrifugal comes on
like a freight train in the upper rpm band. With the twin screw on my
car I can modulate the power with great finesse with throttle position.
It's an apples and oranges thing.

&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Lower boost ratings at higher RPMs
&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Higher Than Normal Discharge Temperatures
&gt;&gt;&gt; 4) Lengthy installation times
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Allen Engine Development - BDS - Magna Charger - B&amp;M- Holley -
&gt;&gt;&gt; Littlefield - Mooneyham - Weiand
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Screw Type Supercharging
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Recommended Usage:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Street Use - Towing - Road Racing - Drag Racing
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Positive Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Great Power at Low RPMs (Great for Towing)
&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Factory Fit &amp; Appearance
&gt;&gt;&gt; 4) Great Reliability
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt;&gt;&gt; very flat)
&gt;&gt; I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Challenging To Achieve High Boost Levels or CFMs
&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) Lengthy installation times
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Manufacturer Availability:
&gt;&gt;&gt; Kenne Belle - Whipple
&gt;&gt; To simplify, if you'll be winding out your engine and you prefer your
&gt;&gt; powerband up in the higher end, a turbo or centrifugal is appropriate. If
&gt;&gt; you want additional power in the lower-RPM range, the roots or screw is
&gt;&gt; appropriate.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Joe
&gt;&gt; Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
&gt;&gt; Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
&gt;

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#28: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 16:51:36 by cds

GILL wrote:
&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt;&gt;&gt; very flat)
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.
&gt;
&gt; If RPMs are going up and power is flat, then torque must be going down.
&gt; That's why I can't keep that grin off my face around 4000RPMs (still
&gt; within the speed limits) buy crackers.

I can't get the grin off my face from 2,000 rpm to redline. ;) With a
twin screw, it is not the power curve that is flat. It is the torque
curve. When the torque curve is flat the hp curve is not and keeps
increasing with rpm level. Check out the curves here:
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/s69nm" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/s69nm</a> Show me a dyno run from a centrifugal that
matches the KB kit at 8.5 psi of boost on an otherwise bone stock 05+
Mustang GT.

Report this message

#29: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 18:43:57 by Gill

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
&gt; GILL wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; very flat)
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; If RPMs are going up and power is flat, then torque must be going
&gt;&gt; down. That's why I can't keep that grin off my face around 4000RPMs
&gt;&gt; (still within the speed limits) buy crackers.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I can't get the grin off my face from 2,000 rpm to redline. ;) With a
&gt; twin screw, it is not the power curve that is flat. It is the torque
&gt; curve. When the torque curve is flat the hp curve is not and keeps
&gt; increasing with rpm level. Check out the curves here:
&gt; <a href="http://tinyurl.com/s69nm" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/s69nm</a> Show me a dyno run from a centrifugal that
&gt; matches the KB kit at 8.5 psi of boost on an otherwise bone stock 05+
&gt; Mustang GT.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/euykk" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/euykk</a>
They both drop in torque high in the RPMs
Up high they compare fairly close, KB rules down low and ATI is peaky,
and to catch up it has that mid-high RPM &quot;rush&quot; so they are both fun,
when &quot;running&quot;, right?

--
Tropic Green Y2K Mustang GT
W/bits &amp; pieces
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/eh99n" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/eh99n</a>

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#30: Re: Okay gearheads, need some advice. (again) lol

Posted on 2006-07-23 21:05:46 by cds

GILL wrote:
&gt; Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
&gt;&gt; GILL wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Negative Points:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The Power Doesn't Keep Climbing in the High RPMs (Power curve is
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; very flat)
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'd love to know why a flat power curve is a bad thing.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; If RPMs are going up and power is flat, then torque must be going
&gt;&gt;&gt; down. That's why I can't keep that grin off my face around 4000RPMs
&gt;&gt;&gt; (still within the speed limits) buy crackers.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I can't get the grin off my face from 2,000 rpm to redline. ;) With a
&gt;&gt; twin screw, it is not the power curve that is flat. It is the torque
&gt;&gt; curve. When the torque curve is flat the hp curve is not and keeps
&gt;&gt; increasing with rpm level. Check out the curves here:
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://tinyurl.com/s69nm" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/s69nm</a> Show me a dyno run from a centrifugal that
&gt;&gt; matches the KB kit at 8.5 psi of boost on an otherwise bone stock 05+
&gt;&gt; Mustang GT.
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://tinyurl.com/euykk" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/euykk</a>
&gt; They both drop in torque high in the RPMs
&gt; Up high they compare fairly close, KB rules down low and ATI is peaky,
&gt; and to catch up it has that mid-high RPM &quot;rush&quot; so they are both fun,
&gt; when &quot;running&quot;, right?

The ATI is still 14 peak hp off the KB even with 0.5 psi more peak
boost. The ATI torque curve is pretty good for a centrifugal. Either
blower will put a smile on your face. The biggest drawback I see to a
centrifugal is the narrow power band for peak boost. Beyond first and
second gear it is hard to be in the meat of its boost curve on the
street. For some people though this isn't a negative and is even seen
as a positive. Still though, it is all good.

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