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#1: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 1/6

Posted on 2006-05-23 06:24:10 by faq

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part1
Posting-Frequency: 15 days
Last-modified: 2005/7/21
Version: 5.9

This section is generally revised every 300 days.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
IMPORTANT. Do not attempt to respond to <a href="mailto:faq&#64;allpar.com." target="_blank">faq&#64;allpar.com.</a>
Due to spam this address DOES NOT GO ANYWHERE.
Instead, reply to faq2 at that allpar /dot/ com address.
If that fails, go to allpar.com and provide feedback from there.
Thank you.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
* Important Note * Chrysler generally refers to the full Chrysler Group
(Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep) or, historically, Chrysler Corporation (including
Plymouth, DeSoto, Eagle, and, while they belonged to Chrysler, Simca,
Rootes Group, Sunbeam, Singer, and AMC).

DISCLAIMER:
While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the
information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and
contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for
damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein.
Some of the information is presented as opinion rather than fact.
The writers and the maintainer do not claim to be authorities.
information below may be reproduced in any way IF credit is
given to the writers and maintainer; and that it is not published in
book or magazine form without the prior written permission of the
maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without asking, a FREE
copy of the final material; and that no changes are made (except for
formatting) without the express permission of the maintainer
(David Zatz - contact me via allpar.com).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
If you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its
newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably
NOT a current edition. The latest copy may be obtained from
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/faq.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/faq.html</a>
- - - - - - - - - - - -

CONTENTS

Part 1 -
Related Resources (groups, Web sites, recall/TSB info)
Before You Post, Read This!
The Newsgroup: charter, notes, rationale
Frequently Asked Chrysler/Mopar Questions
Up and Coming
Important Chrysler folk

Part 2
What should I do...
1. ... before I post?
2. ... if I have problems with Chrysler?
3. ... if I own this car? (list of models and what to look for)
Oil Filter Discussion
List of All Engines Since 1966
1. Guide to V-8s
List of All Body Styles Since 1966

Part 3
Engine Codes
Classic Car Troubleshooting
Reading codes without a scan tool
(computer controlled, carbureted engines)
Crankcase inlet air filter, 2.2/2.5 engines.

Part 4
Driveability: engine idling, power, mileage, stalling
Transmissions
Note that this part will be discontinued

Part 5
Funny noises
Oil leaks
Temperature stuff
Note that this part will be discontinued

Part 6
Troubleshooting (except what is covered by parts 3, 4, and 5)
This part will be discontinued

Related FAQs:
Neon - maintained by the Neon mailing list.


************************************************************ ************
BEFORE POSTING WITH COMPLAINTS/QUESTIONS

1. Check the FAQ.

2. Paranoia, overposting, and thoughtless posts are common.
Show off your intelligence and maturity.

3. Do not confuse Chrysler with your dealership,
the zone office, or the guy who picks up the phone.

4. If you are having problems with Chrysler or your dealer, read
the relevant parts of the FAQ (1,2) and the Web site.

5. The natural inclination of people who have been mistreated is
to respond to many posts. However, all companies sometimes make
lemons or fail to treat customers well. Try to restrain anger.

************************************************************ ************
- Related Resources:

<a href="http://allpar.com/" target="_blank">http://allpar.com/</a> - major owner/enthusiast site
* Models, history, repair, performance info

Contact Chrysler via Net - <a href="http://www.dcanswers.com" target="_blank">http://www.dcanswers.com</a>

Phone Numbers

1-800-992-1997 Chrysler Customer Service - USA
1-800-465-2001 Chrysler Canada
1-800-255-9877 adapting new vehicles for people w/disabilities.
1-800-626-1523 Mopar catalog of manuals, videos, books (free)
1-800-677-5782 local 5-Star Dealer locator
1-800-998-1110 Neon Racing Headquarters
1(248)969-1690 Mopar Performance *technical* hot line
ONLY for Mopar Performance issues!!!
1-800 448 0944 Chrysler Electronics (direct source for
computers, etc) - also 256 464 1200

Other Resources

Plymouth Owners Club (Plymouth &amp; Fargo 25+ years old)
203 Main St., Cavalier, North Dakota 58220
Great magazine! <a href="http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/" target="_blank">http://www.plymouthbulletin.com/</a>

WPC Restorers' Club (Walter P Chrysler Club)
Also a good magazine!
<a href="http://www.chryslerclub.org/" target="_blank">http://www.chryslerclub.org/</a>

Chrysler Canada Customer Service:
Chrysler Center, P.O. Box 1621
Windsor, Ontario N9A 4H6

Chrysler Europe NV
Woluwedal 106-108, 1200 Brussels, Belgium - Europe

Selected Mopar books, 20% off:
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/books.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/books.html</a>

Want information on your 1967 or older car?
The Chrysler Historical Foundation, at 12501 Chrysler
Freeway, CIMS 410-11-21, Highland Park, MI 48288,
will supply you with service manuals, build records,
owner's manuals, and stock photos - all for a fee.

If you have a Web site:
<a href="http://www.weborial.com/" target="_blank">http://www.weborial.com/</a> and <a href="http://www.apacheuser.com/" target="_blank">http://www.apacheuser.com/</a>

Other cars, <a href="http://www.acarplace.com/" target="_blank">http://www.acarplace.com/</a>

Newsgroups
rec.autos.makers.chrysler
rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
alt.hi-po.mopars
alt.hi-po.mopars.neon
alt.autos.dodge.trucks
others in rec.autos.*
.. wiz.mopar

Chrysler was the first make in the rec.autos.makers.* hierarchy, but
Volkswagen was the first make to have a Big Seven newsgroup.
Chrysler beat both GM and Ford to having a Big Seven newsgroup!

************************************************************ ************
Thanks to Gene Fusco for the Mopar Mailing List's FAQ; thanks also to
Lloyd R. Parker, Wayne Toy, Bohdan Bodnar, and Dan Stern.


*************************CONTENTS*************************** **

This is divided into corporate and car sections.


I. CORPORATE

1. What does DCX mean? DaimlerChrysler
(CC used to mean Chrysler Corp, DC used to mean
Direct Connection, precursor to Mopar Performance)
DCX is DaimlerChrysler's stock symbol. The X was
rumored to stand for Honda at one point (as in DCH)).

2. What is Chrysler's US customer service number? 800-992-1997

3. What is Chrysler's e-mail address?

Contact Chrysler via a Web form - see &quot;contact us&quot; on their brand web sites
(dodge.com, chrysler.com, jeep.com).

4. What about the merger / takeover?

Motivation: Chrysler execs got about $60 million in personal profit.
Daimler bought Chrysler, doubling their profits.
They reportedly siphoned off Chrysler profits via accounting
tricks in order to make Mercedes look more profitable.
Daimler got Chrysler's $8-10 billion war chest.
One UAW and one German union rep on the new board.
Only one Chrysler rep on the board left from original four.
Many plants were sold. More are still being sold.
Mitsubishi seems to be trying to separate as is Hyundai.
Direct Mercedes domination seems to be fading, but money is
reportedly still leaving Auburn Hills at an alarming rate,
and decontenting to fix Mercedes' losses is noticeable.

7. What's the deal with Chrysler still using Mitsubishis?

Just after Chrysler phased out the last Mitsubishi engine,
Daimler announced that Chrysler would phase out all
Chrysler four cylinders in favor of jointly designed fours.
A joint small V6 is rumored now as well. The new engine is
said to be a powerhouse, but it's not a Hyundai or
Mitsubishi engine, it's a true joint venture. Details:
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/mopar/world-engine.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/mopar/world-engine.html</a>

As far as the next-generation Neons and Stratuses, they are
also being jointly developed - we understand Chrylser is leading
both, though they are using newer Mitsubishi basic platforms.
(MMC has now decided not to use the mid-sized sedans.)
The first Neon-replacement will be the Dodge Caliber.
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/caliber.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/caliber.html</a>

You can read about Chrysler's future
vehicles at <a href="http://www.allpar.com/model/upcoming.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/model/upcoming.html</a>

8. What's the deal with Chrysler's names in Canada and elsewhere?

Same names, different cars. Different names, same cars.
For the history, see <a href="http://www.valiant.org/canada.html" target="_blank">http://www.valiant.org/canada.html</a>
and <a href="http://www.allpar.com/world/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/world/</a>

Dodge and Plymouth cars were both ended in Canada, but Dodge was
later restored and is debuting in Europe after many decades.

9. How reliable are Consumer Reports' ratings?

See the discussion at <a href="http://www.allpar.com/cr.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/cr.html</a>

10. How can I get help for problems Chrysler won't fix?

See the discussion at <a href="http://www.allpar.com/trouble.html." target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/trouble.html.</a>
Keep trying the Chrysler Customer Center. Know the TSBs.
Visit <a href="http://www.nhtsa.gov" target="_blank">http://www.nhtsa.gov</a> ... keep trying and keep your cool.

11. What's the deal with Chrysler Europe, Simca, and Talbot?

Chrysler owned Simca and Rootes/Sunbeam until the late 70s, but
sales kept going up and down (usually down). Peugeot bought them
and sold the Omni as the Talbot. They had Simca/Sunbeam engines
(Lloyd Parker). The Centura sold in Australia was a Simca (Dan Stern).
See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/world/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/world/</a> for many details.
These cars and the former Rootes Group brands, such as Singer,
Sunbeam, Hillman, and Humber, are covered by
<a href="http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/</a>

12. Why are so many Chrysler dealers so awful?

Perpetual contracts. Organizational culture. Incorrect
assumptions at all levels. Zone officials who think
all customers are whiners and all dealers are honest.

13. What is Chrysler doing about it?

Five Star program which requires better processes to be
in place and does not rely solely on survey ratings
helps SOME Chrysler dealers. It seems to be circumvented by less
scrupulous dealers with less dedicated zone reps.

********

14. Should I use high octane gas?

Only if your car was designed for it (see your owner's manual) or if
you've advanced the timing or your engine is knocking. According to
Chrysler and others, many high-octane gasolines have a low
driveability index, which can cause long cold start times,
warm-up sags, hesitations, and driveway die outs. Under the law,
ALL gasolines sold in the US must meet certain standards for
detergent; if you really need to &quot;drive your engine clean&quot; get a
bottle of Techron or Mopar engine cleaner.

Turbo engines are usually designed to use premium.

20. Is X good for my engine? (includes Slick50)

The Toyota FAQ (Todd Haverstock) sez: &quot;Independent labs as well
as engine manufacturer Briggs and Stratton have rendered a
verdict that Slick 50 and similar oil treatments are useless.&quot;
The Gasoline FAQ says most gasoline additives are useless.
Others have weighed in on that score, and DuPont sued to prevent
Slick 50 from using Teflon (unsuccessfully). For more details:
<a href="http://www.tfb.com/sdmc/oil.html" target="_blank">http://www.tfb.com/sdmc/oil.html</a>

21. Do I have a Chrysler or Mitsubishi (MMC) engine?

See part 2.

22. Does the Mini really use a modified Neon engine?

Yes, it's a smaller version of the Neon engine designed for European
Neons and a small Chrysler that never materialized. The factory was a
joint venture with Rover. The supercharged version is quite nice.

23. What does SOHC, SMPI, etc mean? What do I have?

Note: No current Chrysler has a distributor or throttle body injection.

* DIS means distributorless ignition system. No rotor!
* SOHC and DOHC refer to the number of camshafts; one or two.
* EFI means electronic fuel injection, such as the following:
* TBI - throttle body injection; one or two injectors
spray fuel into the air as it heads to the cylinders.
* MPI uses one fuel injector for each cylinder. It sprays fuel in
the intake manifold, firing at the intake valves. Smoother than
TBI, with more power *and* better mileage.
* SMPI is sequential multiple-point injection; the injector only
fires when the fuel can go straight through the valve and into
the cylinder instead of splashing onto a closed valve.
* Direct injection sprays fuel directly into each cylinder.
This is mainly used in diesel engines (thanks, Michael Turley!)
-- Note: all current Chrysler products use DIS and returnless
SMPI. Mitsubishi is pioneering direct injection for gas engines.
The latest is coil on plug ignition which provides a separate coil for each
spark plug, located right on top of the plug, for the best control and
spark power.

25. What kind of oil should I use in my 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine?

On February 7, 1995, a Chrysler engineer said 5W30 was best for
2.0, 2.2, and 2.5 liter non-turbo engines, for winter or
year-round in climates such as that of New Jersey.
All dealers I surveyed incorrectly recommended and used 10W30!
- In 1993 and 1998 Chrysler said 5W30 was best for all its cars.
- Dan Stern says synthetic 10W30 is better than natural 5W30.
- The benefits of 5W30 or synthetics seem greatest in cold
weather when oil is most viscous (before the engine warms).
- Even GM recommends 5W30 on their Vortec V8s.

Use Energy Conserving II and SH grades where possible.

For my car, recommended oil changes are at 6 months / 7,500
miles. I change it at 6 months or 6,000 miles. GM says many owners
do not need to change oil until 10,000 miles! If you are concerned,
use synthetic and change at 6,000.

** CHECK YOUR MANUAL **. Dealers often suggest things like changing
your antifreeze every three months to get easy money. If
you exceed Chrysler's recommendations, do the easy work yourself.

PS&gt; Overheating after a an antifreeze change/radiator flushing
means your mechanic didn't purge the system correctly.
Be careful to thoroughly purge the system of air bubbles -
or invest in head gaskets. This is VERY important.

5W30 is generally recommended for the 2.0 and 2.4 liter engines, too.

HOWEVER in some engines 5W30 is NOT recommended.
If you have the 2.7 V6 we STRONGLY recommend synthetic.

25a. What about oil for other engines?

Check your owner's manual and don't rely on mechanics, who often
rely on out of date memories for their information. If you have a
turbo, we strongly recommend synthetic oil. Follow the recommended
oil change intervals. GM says many owners do not need to change
oil until 10,000 miles! But follow the book, not the 3/3,000
mentality.

26. What kind of engine do I have ???

Raise the hood and check the emissions sticker. You can decode your
vehicle ID number (VIN) using most car manuals. The emissions sticker
will tell you the displacement of the engine.

27. What is a Mopar? Do I have one?

Mopar is slang for a Chrysler-produced car. Some extend it to AMCs
and to MMC products (e.g. Colt) sold by DC; and some restrict it to
high performance only. It is the name of Chrysler's parts division.
Mopar stands for MOtor PARts. MoPar is a registered trademark.

28. Which are the Diamond Star models?

Diamond Star models are those built by the Diamond Star (DSM)
plant in Illinois. This was a joint venture but is now 100%
MMC. The Stratus/Sebring/Avenger Coupes and Eclipse are
the only DSM models. The Stealth used some Chrysler technology
but was mostly Mitsubishi - and was all Japanese. The Colt,
Sapparo, FWD Challenger, and Ram 50 were re-badged Mitsubishis.

29. What are the K-cars?

Herb DaSilva:
... Chrysler used the components on the Aries/Reliant (K) in many of
its other platforms. These platforms... share similar distance
between the wheels on the same axle, and have the same suspension
design. Most K variants can swap struts (H is an exception).
K derivates include: Laser (pre-88)/Daytona (G), Shadow/Sundance
(P), LeBaron/New Yorker (J), LeBaron sedan (pre-90)/Lancer
(H), Dynasty/New Yorker/Imperial (C), Acclaim/Spirit/LeBaron sedan
(AA). Each derivative has a different wheelbase and floor pan.
First-generation minivans are also loosely based on the K.

These cars are collectively referred to as EEKs.
There is a mailing list for them at <a href="http://www.eekcars.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eekcars.com/</a>

30. How do I find the fault codes stored in my engine computer?

See Part 3 of this FAQ.

32. How often should I change my trans fluid?

Check your service manual. The severe service definition means that
the vehicle is operated *primarily* in one of those conditions.

Mopar 3-speed automatic transmissions need to have oil
and filter changed when the oil gets discolored due to suspended
solids. ATF usually does not need to be changed unless
contaminated. The trans oil can get contaminated by overheating or
by severe internal wear due to abuse, especially towing.
(Mostly from Robert Muir).

4-speed automatic transmissions should have their ATF
changed every three years or so. It MUST be replaced
with ATF+3, NOT Dexron. (Newer automatics require ATF+4).

MODERN TRANSMISSIONS WILL BE DESTROYED
IF YOU USE THE WRONG FLUID.
See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a>

Even some 3-speed DC transmissions are NOT compatible
with Dexron - read your manual !!!

34. What kind of gas should I use?

Use the octane level your owner's manual recommends and the brand
you have had good luck with. If your engine knocks adjust the timing.

35. No longer relevant; deleted.

36. What about lemons?

To quote the rec.autos FAQ --
every auto manufacturer has manufactured a lemon or two; even Honda
admits to this. Please don't waste everyone's time by announcing to
the world that your `brand x' automobile is terrible, so
all brand x automobiles are terrible, so no one should ever buy a
car from the brand x company. Such articles are worse than
useless, because they cause wasted bandwidth while carrying little
or no useful information.

37. Are K&amp;N filters worth it?

David Cooley reported on a magazine test of aftermarket air filters.
The paper filters were respectable, but the K&amp;N and Accell filters
flowed almost 3 times as much air when dirty as clean paper filters
of the same size. The K&amp;N passed less particulate matter than the
paper filter; as it got dirtier outside, they sprayed on a new coat
of oil (without cleaning) and found it filtered even better.

K&amp;N filters change your engine sound, rarely need replacement,
and flow better when dirty. Other than that, you may not notice much
difference unless you have a high-efficiency exhaust and performance
engine. There has been debate over the actual filtering ability of
these filters; the power boost on TBI cars is negligible.
So. . .probably not.

38. Is there anything special I should do if I have ABS?

Marv Miller suggests
replacing the brake fluid every 2-4 years regardless of car make.
Use only the brake fluid the car maker recommends!!! Fully
depressurize the system before adding or changing brake fluids.
Note - ABS is now far more reliable than it used to be. Indeed,
the primary source of failure is dirt in the sensors, which can
easily be cleaned.

39. What kind of transmission fluid should I use? Is Dexron OK?

Use ONLY what it says in your owner's manual to use. Many Chrysler
transmissions are NOT compatible with standard fluid! ATF+3
is usually the best one to use with automatic transmissions before
2001, ATF+4 after.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT and very misunderstood issue.

You should really visit <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a> if you have
a four-speed or five-speed Chrysler automatic. Even most three-speed
automatics are required to use ATF+4.

40. Are Chrysler transmissions still junk?

Not if you use the right transmission fluid. By the way,
the 545 is actually based on the old, reliable 727.
See #39 and Part 2 of the FAQ.

41. Do I have one of those evil ABS systems I heard about?

These had the Bendix ABS-10: (Thanks, G. Smith)
90-93 C body (Dynasty/New Yorker)
90-93 Y body (Imperial)
91-92 BB body (Premier/Monaco - Renault imports)
91-93 S body (Minivans - Caravan/Voyager)
Chrysler extended the warranty to 100,000 miles
At some point we have to remove this section...

42. Aren't Chryslers junk? / Has Mercedes improved Chrysler quality?

Chrysler was working on quality before the takeover, yielding the
PT Cruiser - which is beating the Honda Civic on quality
surveys - and the Jeep Liberty, which is also doing very well. Chrysler
has been making great strides in quality. Mercedes is, if anything,
damaging those efforts by emphasizing an &quot;expert&quot; approach rather than a
Toyota-style inclusive/participatory approach to quality.

Look at Mercedes' quality reports, then at Chrysler's. Generally,
Chrysler quality TROUNCES Mercedes. So how is Mercedes helping?

43. Engine sludge - what's the deal?

Early 2.7 liter engines in some models had a more than normal
occurence of oil degredation resulting in a thick substance
called &quot;sludge&quot; which can cause major engine damage. This problem
also afflected some Toyotas, Hondas, and other makes. If you have a
2.7 made before 2004, you may want to use synthetic oil (which can
also lengthen your oil change intervals). The problem appears to be
caused by a combination of engine design and engine bay design, with
driving conditions thrown in; high heat in certain areas may be the
cause. It's still pretty sketchy and in some cases over-hyped. But if
it happens to you - it's serious!



86. All other questions.

Check the computer codes.

******************* UP AND COMING ******************

This section has been replaced by <a href="http://www.allpar.com/news/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/news/</a>
and <a href="http://www.allpar.com/model/upcoming.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/model/upcoming.html</a>

*********************** AUTOMATIC TRANS FLUID **********************

The FAQ maintainer notes that many people have destroyed their
transmissions by using the wrong fluid.
Some people have had bad transmission problems go away
when they changed the fluid. Follow Chrysler's recommendations.
Ignore the alternative fluid (as in &quot;if Mopar is unavailable, use...&quot;).

See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a> for details.

Note that this is also true of Toyotas (as per <a href="http://www.toyoland.com" target="_blank">http://www.toyoland.com</a> )

*********************** NEWSGROUP CHARTER ***********
(This section never changes. The newsgroup was created around 1994.)

- The Newsgroup Rec.Autos.Makers.Chrysler -- CHARTER

COVERAGE. Rec.autos.makers.chrysler was set up to cover issues related
to cars and trucks made by Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler, Fargo, DeSoto,
Jeep, Eagle, and all other makes sold or marketed by Chrysler Corp.

BEHAVIOR. Political comments and commercial advertising will be
discouraged. However, *short* product announcements, preferably
restricted to the name, availability, and a very brief description of
the product's function (where applicable) are acceptable.

Discussion of whether Chrysler products are of good or bad quality,
lengthy comparisons to Hondas or other cars, and similar arguments and
flamewars with no foreseeable conclusion are heavily discouraged.
Participants are asked to be kind, considerate, and supportive, and to
generally keep an open, warm atmosphere so that the function of this
newsgroup may be maintained.

RATIONALE. This group is proposed to help Chrysler (CC) vehicle owners
to support each other, save money, and maximize enjoyment of their autos.

As in rec.autos.vw, Chrysler owners need a forum where they feel
unreservedly welcomed, and where they can obtain esoteric information
from involved people with similar experiences and vehicles.

This newsgroup should be general enough for those who know little about
cars to get a broad range of information and advise from, while allowing
those more into the products to exchange their views and advice.

In a world dominated by GM, Ford, and VW (Europe) products, Chrysler
owners often find discussions difficult. Most aftermarket parts and
advice are for GM and Ford owners; knowledge about Chrysler is hard to
find. The press don't cover CC as well as they could -- and CC's
dissemination of information to the press and the public is poor.

Chrysler products have quirks which most mechanics don't seem to be
aware of, leading them to replace transmissions when the fault is in a
20 cent vacuum hose, or to replace the engine computer instead of
plugging in a hose or changing a sensor. Chryslers are often seen as
ordinary American cars (unlike makes which many mechanics will admit
they are not familiar with) -- but what will work on a GM or Ford will
often not work on a Dodge. There is a vast ocean of experience in
Chrysler products out on the Internet which may help owners to save
time, money, and trouble.

CC vehicles are common enough, yet idiosyncratic enough, to deserve
their own place in the Net hierarchy -- just as Volkswagens are. In
addition, it is important for CC vehicle owners to have a place to
discuss the problems and benefits of ownership, to exchange detailed
information and personal experiences, in a supportive and positive
atmosphere. In short, I hope to develop a group as vibrant and helpful
as the Mopar mailing list or the rec.autos.VW group have been, while
making this group accessible to all Dodge, Plymouth, Jeep, Eagle, and
Chrysler owners, even those who don't know what a Mopar is.


*********************** IMPORTANT DC FOLK ***********
Hard to keep up to date due to reshuffles. Write to:
DaimlerChrysler, 1000 Chrysler Drive, Auburn Hills, MI 48326-2766
Your letter will go to customer service pretty much regardless of
who you write to anyway.

FAQ maintained by David Zatz who works at <a href="http://www.toolpack.com/" target="_blank">http://www.toolpack.com/</a>
and may sometimes be seen at <a href="http://www.ptcruizer.com/" target="_blank">http://www.ptcruizer.com/</a>

(end of FAQ part 1)

Report this message

#2: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 2/6

Posted on 2006-05-23 06:24:11 by faq

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part2
Posting-Frequency: 15 days
Last-modified: 2005/7/21
Version: 4.6

This section is generally revised every 300 days.
SERIOUS updates to the body code list, July 2005.

IMPORTANT. Do not attempt to respond to <a href="mailto:faq&#64;allpar.com." target="_blank">faq&#64;allpar.com.</a>
Due to spam this address DOES NOT GO ANYWHERE.
Instead, reply to faq2 at that allpar /dot/ com address.
Thank you.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
DISCLAIMER:
While every effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the
information contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and
contributors assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for
damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein.
Some of the information is presented as opinion rather than fact.
The writers and the maintainer do not claim to be authorities.
information below may be reproduced in any way IF credit is
given to the writers and maintainer; and that it is not published in
book or magazine form without the prior written permission of the
maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without asking, a FREE
copy of the final material; and that no changes are made (except for
formatting) without the express permission of the maintainer
(David Zatz of allpar.com).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
If you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its
newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably
NOT current. The latest copy may be obtained from
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/faq.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/faq.html</a>
- - - - - - - - - - - -

PART II

*************************CONTENTS*************************** **
What should I do...
1. ... before I post?
2. ... (removed)
3. ... if I have problems with Chrysler?
4. ... if I own this car? (list of models and what to look for)

Oil Filter Discussion

List of All Engines Since 1966
1. Guide to V-8s
2. New transmission designations decoded (new!)

List of All Body Styles Since 1966

************************************************************ ***********
BEFORE POSTING WITH COMPLAINTS/QUESTIONS

1. Check the FAQ. Most answers are there.

2. Please don't post messages like &quot;this broke and I will speak to the
dealer about it sometime.&quot; Go to the dealer first; if they cannot fix
it, and it is not in the FAQ, THEN go to the newsgroup.

3. If you are having problems with Chrysler, and have not yet read the
relevant FAQ section, please do so. At least call them (800-992-1997).

4. If you are having problems with Chrysler and are angry and bitter
at them, an angry message or two is fine. But you won't help
anyone by going overboard.

************************************************************ ***********
HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP.
************************************************************ ***********

(Note: Thanks to Dan Adams for his help with parts of this -
Chrysler Corp should be grateful to have him!)

* The order in which you should deal with a problem is something like
this:
1. Speak politely but assertively with the service writer.
2. Ask to go for a ride with the mechanic and discuss relevant issues
wuth them.
3. Service manager.
4. 800 992 1997.
5. Zone (voluntary buyback negotiations IF APPLICABLE)
6. Arbitration / Consumer Affairs / Attorney General if applicable
AND needed.

* Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take &quot;no&quot;
for an answer but do *not* act angry or make threats. Chrysler often
helps, even out of warranty, but they need to be gently pushed; they are
generally defensive; and what they know about customers and customer
service would fit into a microscope slide. The Customer Center reps also
often don't know what they're talking about, so elaboration may help. If
all else fails, call back and speak to someone else. Always take down
their name for your reference!

* Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, your computer
codes, and recalls before you visit the dealer with a problem.

* Don't expect Chrysler to change something because it's listed in a TSB
(technical service bulletin). TSBs describe solutions to problems which
may not apply to your car; they are *not* recalls, though Chrysler often
fixes cars out of warranty if there is a known problem and TSB on it.
(Daniel Adams notes that Chrysler sometimes extends transmission
warranties to 100,000 miles; there are extended warranties on some a/c
parts and ABS systems).

* Even if you are in an adversarial relationship, act in a friendly,
nonthreatening, non-adversarial manner. It works better and makes both
parties less angry.

* Daniel Adams writes: Chrysler corparte headquarters does tend to back
the field reps but a good service writer can get to them and help you
more than
you would believe. Don't take your frustration out on the service
writers, they carry quite a bit of pull behind the scenes

* Don't take &quot;no&quot; for an answer. Call Chrysler at 800-992-1997 from a
pay phone if you have to. They will call the dealer. Often, the dealer
will discover they don't need to charge you or keep your car after all!

* If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get
another dealer. Or try the newsgroup.

* If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work,
etc., get another dealer.

* If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at the Customer
Center. You may need to deal with a zone rep, the final word at
Chrysler. Others can overrule them but THEY WILL NOT. Some reps are
good. Others are useless. There have been many reports that the reps in
some areas are exceedingly sensitive and need to be handled with kid
gloves. (See message about service writers above -- they can often get
action where ordinary mortals cannot).

* Note: if, as Continental Auto Body (of Wyckoff, New Jersey) did to my
car, your dealer should get your car into an accident, immediatly retain
a lawyer and find out what your options are. Examine the damage
personally before they have a chance to cover it up and lie about it.

****** NON-CHRYSLER SOLUTIONS ****** (after internal solutions fail)

courtesy of <a href="http://www.acarplace.com/" target="_blank">http://www.acarplace.com/</a>

* Contact your local consumer affairs department. Note: May not work in
states with a predominantly anti-government/libertarian attitude.

1. File an official lemon law complaint with your state. This
will get their attention and help negotiation. You can
usually get a better deal through negotiation than in court.
Hiring a lemon law specialist may help - good ones will offer
to negotiate *first.* Chrysler has a reputation for being easy!

2. Go through the Customer Arbitration Board. Results with this
group have been mixed.

* Most lawyers don't know the first thing about lemon law! A good one
will know the people at the zone office and will try to
talk nice to them to solve the problem. If negotiation is not their
first move, they are not the right lawyer.

* Your chances of getting cash are slim. You will probably get a credit
(buy-back). You will usually not get all of your money back. Chrysler
tends to follow state laws; most impose a penalty on each mile of use
before the first lemon-type complaint. This is normal and OK.

* Go through the latest TSBs again. Something new might have come up.

*Whenever your dealer lies to you or is too incompetent, send a letter
to Dealer Agreements or the Customer Center, Box 302, Centerline, MI
48015. It may not help you but it might help someone else! (Actually, it
may not help anyone else, either).

* If in a dispute with a five-star dealer, feel free to return your
customer satisfaction survey with very negative ratings. Dan Adams
assures us that these surveys are taken very seriously. Be aware that
all surveys are also given to the dealers - not just in aggregate form,
but the individual surveys - so be careful what you say, don't go
overboard. For more details on what happens to your surveys, see
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/surveys.html." target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/surveys.html.</a>

* If you get into a dispute with an auto body shop, check your state's
laws to see what regulations and rules might be applicable.

************************************************************ ************

WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CAR/ENGINE?

Note: you are strongly advised to also visit the Troubleshooting
section (part 4). If a problem is noted, with no
solution, the solution is listed in the Troubleshooting section.

ENGINES

2.2/2.5 turbo:
-- check for fuel leaks and loose fuel line connections
-- head gasket failure (possibly due to heavy use)

Any 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine:
-- oil leaks from the valve cover gasket and oil pan.
-- oil seeping into airbox or air hose
-- poor idle from any number of causes (see part 5)

Any Mitsubishi engine
-- high oil consumption
-- replace the timing belts on time!

Carbureted V-8/slant six engines
-- replace the crankcase inlet air filter regularly.
-- keep a spare ballast resistor in your glove compartment
-- make sure the stove and damper (vacuum-powered valve) are working

Any engine without DIS (if you have a rotor, this applies to you) ---
-- Check your timing, it may have been set wrong at the factory.
-- Other problems may be caused by low quality rotor or different
brand rotor and distributor cap. (Standard-Bluestreak was recommended
by Dan Stern. There have been malformed Mopar 2.2/2.5 caps).

2.7 V6: use synthetic oil to avoid sludge

TRANSMISSIONS

4-speed automatic
-- 1989-94: watch for early failure and press Chrysler to pay for repairs.
-- all: Change fluid regularly with *recommended* fluid.
See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a>
-- KNOW the right fluid (owner's manual ONLY). Do NOT trust mechanics.
The right fluid for 1988-1998 transmissions is usually Type 7176.
The right fluid for 1999 and up models is usually ATF+4.
See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a>
-- DO NOT use non-recommended fluid or ANY additives.
-- Check for TSBs and have the computer replaced if
needed. If a dealer doesn't feel/hear it, find another. Persist
until they follow the TSB. The new computer save wear and tear
on the transmission for various reasons. (Note: 1996+ transmissions
have software-upgradable computers)
-- MOST problems are due to MAINTENANCE ISSUES. Do the maintenance
with EXACTLY the fluids and parts recommended!
-- Chrysler has informally extended some transmission warranties due
to earlier problems.
-- AGAIN, DO NOT USE DEXRON! Do not trust any mechanic! ASK!
-- If you have a problem, check the allpar forums and try getting
second opinions. Mechanics, including dealership mechanics, are
quick to demand that you replace or rebuilt these things even when
the problems are minor! Even honest mechanics are jaded by past
breakdowns...

5-speed manual transmission, pre-1994 (non-MMC):
-- Seepage from the transaxle is common.

BRAKES

ABS
-- On Chrysler products, the trouble-prone ABS-10 was on minivans,
New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, Imperial, Eagle Premier, Dodge
Dynasty, and Dodge Monaco.
*** There has been a RECALL on these systems and the warranty
on them has been extended to 100,000 miles, according to reports.
-- You may be able to prevent problems with ABS systems by
changing the brake fluid every 2-4 years.
-- Often, the ABS light goes on due to dirt in the sensors. Try to
troubleshoot it yourself using the engine-code method.
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html</a>

CARS

Neon -- see the Neon FAQ.
-- whining noise from the computer for 3-4 minutes after the engine
is shut, periodically, is normal.
-- engine light comes on: see Computer Codes, part 3.
-- bad head gaskets: fixed with mid-1997 upgrade.
-- Other Neon issues - see <a href="http://www.allpar.com/neon/neon.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/neon/neon.html</a>

PAINT COLORS

Metallic paints are more prone to problems.
Blue seems to be more prone to problems.
Red is known for fading and peeling.
Paint seems to have improved markedly since the 1990s.
Note: this applies to all brands of cars and trucks.


******************* CONSUMER REPORTS DISCUSSIONS *******************
Transferred to Web site, <a href="http://www.allpar.com/cr.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/cr.html</a>
***********************************************************

From Lloyd Parker, updated since then:

**** Engines used in Chryslers since 1966:

* denotes an engine still in production for Chrysler vehicles

4 cylinders

1.4 (MMC) -- Colt, Champ
1.4 (CC/Rover) - BMW Mini
1.5 (Sunbeam) -- Cricket (British)
1.5 (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 (MMC) -- Colt, Champ, Challenger, Sapporo, Arrow
1.6 (Peugeot) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.6 turbo (MMC) -- Colt
1.6 DOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Colt
1.6 (CC/Rover) - Mini and export Neons
1.7 (VW) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.8 (MMC) -- Colt, Vista, Summit, Laser, Talon
1.8 (CC)* -- Neons outside the US
1.8 (WE)* -- World Engine - Caliber, more (2006+)
2.0 (MMC) -- Arrow, Vista
2.0 DOHC (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 SOHC * -- Neon
2.0 DOHC * -- Neon, Sebring, Avenger, Talon, Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze
2.0 (WE)* -- World Engine - Caliber, more (2006+)
2.2 -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo, Aries, Lancer,
Reliant, Shadow, Sundance, 400, 600, Caravelle, Caravan,
Voyager, LeBaron, Laser, Daytona, New Yorker, E-Class,
Executive, Limousine (note: TBI and carb versions)
2.2 turbo -- LeBaron, New Yorker, Limousine, Laser, Daytona,
Lancer, TC, 600, Shadow, Caravelle, Sundance, Omni,
Charger, E-Class, Shelby (note: MPI)
2.2 DOHC turbo -- Spirit, Daytona (joint venture with Lotus)
2.2 DOHC turbo -- TC (joint venture with Maserati)
2.2 (Renault) -- Medallion
2.4 (MMC) -- Vista, Summit
2.4* DOHC (CC) -- Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze, 1996+ minivans, PT
2.4 Turbo (CC) - PT GT, SRT-4, Mexican Stratus R/T
2.4 (WE)* -- World Engine - Caliber, more (2006+)
2.5 (CC) -- minivans, Aries, Reliant, Shadow, Sundance,
Duster, 600, Lancer, Dynasty, Daytona, Spirit, Acclaim,
LeBaron, Caravelle, Dakota (to 1995) - no carb versions
2.5 turbo (CC) -- minivans, Spirit, Acclaim, Shadow,
Sundance, LeBaron, Daytona (Note: MPI)
2.5 (AMC) -- Wrangler, Cherokee, Premier, Dakota (96+)
2.6 (MMC) -- New Yorker, E-Class, Executive, Limousine,
LeBaron, 400, 600, Aries, Reliant, Caravan, Voyager
2.6 turbo (MMC) -- Conquest (MMC)
[Coming up - Hyundai engine tweaked by Mitsubishi and Chrysler for use in
all three lines]

2.5 is 2.2 with balance shafts, minor changes. 2.0 (CC) is 2.2 with
different heads, fuel system, some tweaks. 3.9 V-6 (below) based on 318.
2.4 is 2.0 with balance shafts, other minor changes.
Chrysler families: 2.2/2.5, 2.0/2.4
----------------------------------
V-6:

2.5* (MMC) -- Sebring, Avenger, Cirrus, Stratus (based on 3.0)
2.7* LH series (1998-2001), Stratus/Sebring
3.0 (MMC) -- LeBaron, TC, minivans, New Yorker, Spirit,
Dynasty, Daytona, Stealth, Shadow ES, Acclaim, Duster
3.0 (Renault) -- Premier, Monaco
3.2 LH series (1998+)
3.3* New Yorker, Dynasty, LH series, minivans
3.5* LH series (1998+), Prowler (steel and aluminum versions) -
Chrysler considers the aluminum version to be entirely new
3.7* V-6 for trucks (2002+)
3.8* New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial, minivans - bored 3.3
3.9 trucks (3.9 is based on the 318)
4.0 - rumored enlarged/rodded version of the 3.8

Chrysler-made V6 families are 2.7/3.2, 3.3/3.5/3.8, 3.9/318
MMC 2.5 and 3.0 are related
----------------------------------
The SLANT SIX (share basic design)

2.8 (170) -- Dart, Valiant, Lancer, Barracuda (Canada), A100, D100
3.3 (198) -- Barracuda, Challenger, Dart, Valiant, Duster, Scamp
3.7 (225)-- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Mirada, Diplomat, St.
Regis, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite,
Barracuda, Valiant, Duster, Scamp, Volare, Lancer
----------------------------------
STRAIGHT SIXES

(flat head) - various sizes - ended in late 1950s for cars
215 - Australian Valiants
245 - Australian Valiants
265 - Australian Valiants
4.0* (AMC) -- Cherokee, Wagoneer, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee
4.2 (AMC) -- Wrangler

Families: 215/245/265, 4.0/4.2, flat heads

The Australian straight sixes was built on a basic design intended for
use in American trucks. They changed from the slant six to
Australian-built 215, 245, and 265 sixes in 1970. The Aussie models had
hemispherical heads, so the 3-2barrel Weber version could honestly be
called a Hemi Six-Pack.

----------------------------------
V-8s

4.5 (273) -- Dart, Valiant, Barracuda, Coronet, Belvedere, Satellite
4.7* -- 1999 Grand Cherokee, Charger R/T (CNG), next-gen Rams
5.2 (318) -- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, St. Regis, Magnum,
Mirada, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
Satellite, Road Runner, Barracuda, Valiant, Scamp, Duster,
Volare, Cordoba, LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, Gran Fury,
Imperial, Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer, Diplomat, Demon,
pickups and SUVs thru 2001.
5.6 (340) -- Charger, Challenger, Dart, Barracuda, Duster, Road Runner,
Ramcharger
5.7 Hemi (345) -- Ram trucks, LX cars, Grand Cherokee, Durango (2002+)
5.9 (360) -- LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, 300, Cordoba, Diplomat,
Polara, Monaco, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Gran Fury,
Barracuda, Duster, St. Regis, pickups and SUVs thru 2002.
(345) -- Hemi Magnum engine for trucks, next-gen large cars
5.9 (361) -- Coronet, Charger, Belvedere
5.9 (360-AMC) -- Grand Wagoneer
6.1 Hemi - SRT8 models
6.3 (383)-- Newport, 300, Town &amp; Country, Polara, Monaco, Coronet,
Charger, Challenger, Dart, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite, Road
Runner, Barracuda, Magnum
6.6 (400) -- Newport, New Yorker, Town &amp; Country, Monaco, Fury, Road
Runner, Gran Fury, Charger, maybe Cordoba, Magnum
7.0 (426, Hemi &amp; Wedge) -- Belvedere, Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda,
Challenger, Charger, Coronet, Daytona, Superbird
7.2 (440) -- Newport, New Yorker, 300, Town &amp; Country, Imperial, Polara,
Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Challenger, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda, Daytona, Superbird

----------------------------------
8.0 V-10* -- Viper, Ram trucks (two versions, fairly different)
Truck version (cast iron) ended in 2002. Aluminum continues.

----------------------------------

Gary Howell clarifies:

** Small blocks (except new 4.7) **
273/318/340/360 are LA engines they look the same from the outside.
LA stands for &quot;Lightweight-casting A&quot;
[There is now an A/LA page at <a href="http://www.allpar.com/mopar/318.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/mopar/318.html</a>]

273 cu. in. 1964-69 3.31 stroke and 3.63 bore
318 cu. in. 1968-91 3.31 stroke and 3.91 bore
340 cu. in. 1968-73 3.31 stroke and 4.04 bore
360 cu. in. 1971-91 3.58 stroke and 4.00 bore

The A engines (not LA) are older small blocks and look the same on the
outside to each other. The blocks are different in deck height, but
share some internal components with the LA block. The cylinder heads
and intake are different.

277 cu. in. 1956 3.75 bore and 3.12 stroke
301 cu. in. 1957 3.91 bore and 3.12 stroke
318 cu. in. 1957-67 3.91 bore and 3.31 stroke

The Magnum 318 and 360 engines are LA engines with different cylnder
heads. The blocks are physically the same as the earier LA engines,
except the oil
passage for the shaft mounted rockers is not drilled, because the Magnum
engines oil through the push rods. The boss is there if you need to use
the old style heads.

** Big Blocks **

There are eight different big blocks. The B blocks are short deck and
the RBs are tall deck. The RBs require a wider intake manifold.
[RB engine page: <a href="http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html</a>]

B: 350, 361, 383, 400
RB: 383, 413, 426 Wedge (not Hemi), 440

All B engine use 3.38 stroke crank with different bores, and all RB
engines use 3.75 stroke crank with different bores. You'll notice that
the 383 is listed in two differnent places. There were two different
383s; the RB is very rare, only produced 64. The 350 was only produced
in 1958.

***********************************************************
NEW TRANSMISSION DESIGNATIONS

(Courtesy Daniel Adams &lt;<a href="mailto:dadams&#64;sccoast.net" target="_blank">dadams&#64;sccoast.net</a>&gt;)

On the new transmissions (e.g. 41TE):

4 amount of forward gears (from 3 to 6 at this point!)
1 the torque rating for the trans (on a 1-8 scale 1 lowest 8 strongest)
T or R transaxle or rear wheel drive
e or h electronic or hydraulic

There are two five-speed automatics: a Chrysler-designed unit based on the
727, and a Mercedes-designed unit (currently used in the LX cars and the V6
Grand Cherokee).

Expect to see a six-speed automatic similar in basic design to the current
four-speed car automatics.

Truck automatics are generally 727-based (unlike minivan autos.)

Transmission list with details on many types of transmission:
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions.html</a>

***********************************************************
CAR BODY TYPES

Because the list of car body types was getting rather confusing - there are
far too
many models that jumped from one platform to another - we have taken this
out of the
FAQ and refer you instead to full, informative lists of cars by body type at:
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/model/rwdbodies.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/model/rwdbodies.html</a> (rear drive and trucks/Jeeps)
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/model/fwdbodies.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/model/fwdbodies.html</a> (front drive).

For an example of the difficulty, the early Barracuda was a modified
Valiant, hence an A-body; later it
moved to a platform shared only with the Challenger (E-body). The New
Yorker was a K-car, C-body, and several more...in one year sharing two
different bodies (not unlike the Stratus whose sedan and coupe versions
were built on totally different platforms, made by two different companies,
in the same years!). The Fury moved from C to B body in the late 1970s.
There are many others... cars were resized, transformed, dropped, and
brought back with the same names.

Report this message

#3: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 4/6

Posted on 2006-05-23 06:24:12 by faq

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part4
Posting-Frequency: 15 days
Last-modified: 2004/4/13
Version: 4.2

IMPORTANT. Do not attempt to respond to <a href="mailto:faq&#64;allpar.com." target="_blank">faq&#64;allpar.com.</a>
Due to spam this address DOES NOT GO ANYWHERE.
Instead, reply to faq2 at that allpar /dot/ com address.
Thank you.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
DISCLAIMER:
The author and contributors assume no
responsibility for errors or omissions, or for damages from the
use of the information. Some of the information is opinion.
The writers and the maintainer are not authorities. Any part of
this FAQ may be reproduced IF credit is given to
the writers and the maintainer; it is not published in any
form without the prior written permission of the maintainer;
the maintainer receives, without needing to ask, a
FREE copy of the final material; and no changes are made
without the permission of the maintainer.
The maintainer, David Zatz, works at <a href="http://www.toolpack.com/" target="_blank">http://www.toolpack.com/</a>
- - - - - - - - - - - -

PART IV - Engines: Idling, power, stalling, mileage; transmissions

There is a separate Neon FAQ.

Also see:

Part 3 - Classic cars
Part 5 - Funny noises, oil leaks, temperature stuff
Part 6 - Other stuff

* Many problems are caused by poor battery connections to the cables,
which can cause signals to the computer to be incorrect. Check and clean
the battery terminals and cables first!

* If your antifreeze was just changed and your car started to overheat,
purge the system of air bubbles.

* Additional information on troubleshooting and repairs is on
the web site at <a href="http://www.allpar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/</a>

** Index **

Note: there are *several* entries for some problems. Try using the &quot;search&quot;
or &quot;find&quot; feature of your word processor, or browse through the entries.

We have eliminated some relatively uncommon entries.

1. Stall/hesitation/sag
3. Idle speed jumps OR Intermittent idle speed problems (2.2/2.5)
*** (see also #28 and other items)
4. Transmission noise: when shifting/stopping, buzzng/ratcheting
6. Fast idle on startup
8. Knocking
9. Gas mileage / rough running easy fix
12. Computer code 13 (MAP sensor) - engine runs rough (see #15)
15. Cold / freezing weather problems
16. Hard to shift in cold weather
17. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
22. Other transmission issues
23. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
26. Harsh 2-1 downshifts
27. Rough idle - mod 1/96 - several causes
28. Idle speed increases / engine races sometimes / erratically
(see web site).
30. Power loss, stalling, and/or rough running
33. Power drops dramatically (engines with carb - esp 2.6)
/ icing of carburetor and other parts
37. Magnum V-6 engine problems
41. Power drop, black smoke, 2.6 liter
43. TBI engine hesitation (2.2/2.5)
44. Power loss/jerky on acceleration
45. Turbo engine cutout/power loss: See web site.
47. Hesitation (see related topics above)
48. 3.9 liter (pre-1993) common problem - PREVENT IT
49. Turbo cutting out / power loss light
50. Jeep 4.0 stalling
54. Hesitation, 3.0 liter V-6
73. Transmission clunk / rough downshift or shudder
77. 3-speed automatic flare-up / slow 1-2 shifts
80. Power loss or gas mileage loss
82. Poor mileage, cold starts
83. Mitsubishi 2.6 cold start / drivability

1. Stall, hesitation, or sag

See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/stall.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/stall.html</a> for a full list.

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------

3. Intermittent Idle Problems: (see also #28, #30)

Problem: on 84 Laser, 88 Omni, and 87 Shadow (2.2 liter, turbo and
non-turbo), idle suddenly jumps from 800 rpm to 3000 rpm. Sometimes goes
away quickly, sometimes doesn't. Solution: turning off the defroster; check
the speed/distance sensor and connection (Tom), freon level in the a/c
(james eldridge), and the wiring harness on the back side of the engine
(Jeffrey Wieland). Jeff found that the wiring harness got hot enough to
damage the wire insulation; he spearated and re-insulated the wires, which
fixed the problem.
**********
High idle, 2.2/2.5 TBI:

Most likely automatic idle speed system. Check for fault codes. Check
wiring harness near AIS motor for shorted wires or wires that seem stuck
together (separate and insulate from each other). Also check EGR system,
vacuum system, and timing.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
4. Transmission noise: when shifting/stopping, buzzng/ratcheting

Bob Meyer wrote about the Stratus (Cirrus/Breeze)'s automatic transmission
making a buzzing/ratcheting noise when shifting gears or pulling to a stop.
He said this noise, which also occurs on the Acclaim and other cars, is
normal and comes from the solenoids. It is most noticeable from outside the
car. He warned that a continuous buzz or whine could indicate low fluid or
a bad pump, &quot;But if what you're hearing is only during shifting from park
into reverse or drive or coming to a stop, then the dealer is probably
telling you the truth.&quot;
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
6. Fast idle on startup

(Bohdan Bodnar): This is normal for [some] Chrysler products.
The throttle body temperature sensor is used ONLY during hot
restarts; during a hot restart, it is the dominant temperature sensor for the
first 10 seconds only. So, if the engine runs funny for almost exactly 10
seconds during a hot restart, consider cleaning the contacts of that sensor.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
8. Knocking

The knocking could be caused by low oil pressure. You'd probably want to
have this tested. It
is possible to replace the stock oil pump with a &quot;high flow&quot; pump which
will alleviate this
problem (or, rebuild the engine). - Bohdan Bodnar,

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
9. Gas mileage / rough running easy fix

Vaughn Smith suggests that, when you replace your rotor ($6 at a dealer),
you clean the Hall effect pickup (just under the rotor, you can't miss
it!). This helped him quite a bit on three cars. Be careful to put it back
the exact same way it was when you took it out! Also clean under and around
it.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

12. Engine runs rough - computer shows code 13

From: Jizhong Wang - 84 Dodge 600 ES
A couple of months ago the car stalled with the &quot;Power Loss&quot;
light. My computer said it was MAP sensor vacuum circuit (code 13). I took the
car to a dealer and was told my computer was faulty - didn't replace it.
Later I found a 6-way connector was loose. It was AIS motor and TPS
sensor connector, nothing to do with MAP sensor. Check the
connections and vacuum leaks before you replace it. BTW, my MAP
sensor is under dash of passenger side, inside the car. It is
two inches above ECM.

&lt;Thomas Z. Zeeb&gt; adds: on Caravan/Voyager, it is under the hood and screwed
into the firewall, just off center to the left, above and behind the belts.
It has one vacuum hose and one three-node electrical connector attached to
it. They range from $70 -$100 US at the dealer. If the MAP is shot, the
engine will shut down after starting. Try disconnecting the MAP, the
engine will then run (rough) in some models.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

15. Cold weather problems

Glen Larche said a MAP relocation kit is available to prevent problems
in freezing temps (rough cold idle, stalling):
Kit for turbo vehicles- 4419402
Kit for EFI vehicles- 4419401
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
16. Hard to shift into reverse (manual transmissions)

francini sez this problem is common to cars which have
nonsynchronized reverse gears. Shift into a forward gear before going into
reverse. Or wait a
few moments before shifting into reverse, after hitting the clutch, so the
engine shaft stops spinning.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
17. 2.5 liter knock/idle

(Janos Schumacher) says: &quot;A 2.5 is a stroked 2.2 so the skirt of the piston
goes past the bottom of the cylinder. This makes the piston wear away at
the cylinder walls making them slightly oval. The noise you are hearing is
known as piston slap and the only solution is to turn up the radio. Once
the car warms up the cylinders become more round and the noise goes away.&quot;

Chrysler's service bulletin says: Cold engine knock a few seconds after
startup, lasting 3-5 minutes -- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounds
like valve lifter or tappet noise. Loudest in colder weather. Usually
disappears when the car is
warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for computer replacement.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
22. Other transmission issues

See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a>
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
23. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping

Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There is a TSB, but the dealer said
&quot;you have to complain LOUDLY.&quot; The service guy called it the 'post shift
bang' &quot;
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
26. Harsh 2-1 downshifts

TSB 21-16-93 covers &quot;harsh 2-1 downshift&quot; on the 41TE transaxle, the
four-speed auto in most CC cars from 1989-1992. The change is replacing
the transmission control module (3.3, 3.8, or 3.0 liter engine only).
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
27. Rough idle - several cases

Switched from Getty and Citgo gas to Mobil, Amoco, and Gulf.
Made a tremendous difference.

EGR valve may be stuck open or rusted off.

Engine idled erratically when warm, sometimes lost power after first
response when accelerator pressed about 1/3-1/4 down. Dealer first
adjusted venting at gas tank, seemed to help the idle. Then cleaned and
sealed the battery connector, solving the problem; was probably bad
battery connection causing system voltage fluctuation, which caused
changes in the controls. (Mustafa Soysal) (edited)

My car died slowing down...I disconnected my EGR backpressure transducer
from the vacuum lead. Now my car is a little bit more stable at idle,
better gas mileage, most likely can't pass emisions. (Jeffrey Paul
Chojnacki) - note: others warned against disconnecting EGR; there may
have been a leak in the EGR system.

My 1986 Le Baron engine's CTS's connections had corrosion on them (a scan
tool showed that it took a long time to reach 180F and that it NEVER went
above 180F during highway driving); I opted to replace the CTS and
connector. Cold start problems went away and fuel efficiency improved. No
fault codes.

If you have hot restart problems which disappear after 10 seconds
of engine running, use tuner cleaner on the throttle body temperature
sensor's connector and see if the situation improves. (Bohdan Bodnar)

Dave says: try the basics. Replace the rotor ($6), distributor cap, wires
(silicone coated lifetime warranty name brand=$20 mail order!), and clean
and regap the plugs.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
30. Power loss, stalling, and/or rough running

I have an 87 Sundance 2.2 which has 130k miles and runs great. It
had power loss, stalling, rough running; replaced the $20 MAP sensor
(passenger side fender well) and fixed it. First time it went bad, did
not show up on dealer computer. (Phil McClay)

Tach danced around, engine sometimes stalled. Solution: the computer
(SMEC)'s grounding wire was loose, causing the computer to go nuts. The
wire leads from the computer to a ring connector bolted onto the engine
block at the air filter housing. Clean the corrosion off of all parts.
(David Schmitt)

Ron Smith's 1986 Lebaron GTS was stalling after warmup and not restarting.
The fuel pump was worn out.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
33. Power drops dramatically (engines with carb - esp 2.6)

In cold weather, some vehicles with the 2.6 liter 4-cylinder engine may
have severe power loss (e.g. after running about 20 minutes between 60 and
65 mph). If one steps on the gas, black smoke may come out of the tailpipe.
The solution (from Dave Witte): A de-icing kit to heat the intake air
enough to prevent freezing. SOME engines had this kit at the factory. The
kit is not expensive.
---
My manual shows that the 2.6 had a carb air heater. The tube that comes up
from the exhaust manifold, will be on the back side of the engine, and hard
to reach. When the engine is cold, make sure that the vacuum actuator in
the air horn leading to the air cleaner housing is working. In cold
weather, with the engine cold, it should redirect all of the air flow
through the stove on the exhaust manifold. (Jeff Wieland)
---
The problem was freezing of the carb. and the answer was to moved the hose
that feeds outside air to the air filter compartment and position it
somehwere to the rear of the engine. This prevents the outside cold air
from making its way over to the carb.(Ken)
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
37. Magnum V-6 engine problems

Problem: 1992 Dakota 4x4 with Magnum V-6. Engine faltering badly
sometimes when cold, sometimes when hot. On cold starts, the engine
will sometimes act as though it's getting gas only at idle, won't
accelerate.
It will cough and sputter awhile, then &quot;catch&quot; and take off, running
fine from then on. Other times, it will &quot;skip a beat or two&quot; at speed,
under mild acceleration.

David Wright: Some Magnum engines came with &quot;mis-phased&quot; distributors,
causing intermittent missing.

Jerald Barker: Replace the back pressure transducer and EGR valve. The
Back Pressure Transducer lies next to the EGR valve just above the left
valve cover.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
41. Power drop, black smoke, 2.6 liter

&gt;After running for about 20 minutes the power drops out to the point
&gt;where I have to pull over. If I am in &quot;Park or Neutral&quot; and step on the
&gt;gas pedal, black smoke comes from the tail pipe.

With 2.6L engined minivans ... the airflow goes right
over the carburetor ... freezing it solid. Seconfd you stop, engine
heat thaws it out (which is why you can stop, restart, and it seems a
lot better). I put a metal shield in front of the carburetor
to deflect wind around it and it worked. -- Jonathan N. Deitch
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
43. TBI engine hesitation (2.2/2.5)

2.5 liter, TBI: Intermittent engine hesitation under high speed driving
ONLY or under moderately high speed and heavy acceleration. The problem
NEVER occurs during moderate driving or heavy acceleration at low to
moderate speeds.

The brass pin you see from the top of the injector -- they didn't make it a
tight enough fit.
Eventually the
pin begins to back out and the ECM keeps shortening the injector pulse
to compensate for the change in mixture. The process can take several
months before it produces symptoms. The pin
backs out to a point that the ECM can no longer compensate for and you
get driveability problems. (dotto)

First check fuel pressure, around 14.5 psi engine off (using DRB in
actuator test) I have seen the distributor pick-up unit on these
cut out intermittently. When the computer loses the signal from the
distributor, it shuts fuel/spark off. The Hall-effect plate tends to get
loose. One TSB
involves re-locating the MAP sensor from the logic module(right kick panel)
to the right strut
tower. EGR failures are also common. They sometimes get stuck
open and cause hesitation; try disconnecting the vacuum hose
from the EGR valve. The car will probably ping on acceleration, but
hesitation should cease. The valve is located on the driver's side end
of the exhaust manifold. You may have to remove the air cleaner
housing to see it. Faulty TPS sensor can cause this type of problem.
It may have a &quot;dead spot&quot; (Eric Eleazar)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
44. Power loss/jerky on acceleration

Turned out to be the fuel filter (86 Aries 5-speed, 2.2).(Dave) (89
Aries, 2.5, after 1/2 hour car jerks, fine on short drives): it would
falter. The dealers (all
13 I went to) replaced the map sensor, crank sensor, cam sensor, spark
plugs, spark plug wires, turbo
boost solenoid, egr valve, pcv valve, and just about every other gadget...I
found a dealer who knew something, and they fixed the problem in under an
hour. The plug wires had been installed incorrectly. (jnoyes)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
47. Hesitation (also covered elsewhere)

Problem: 2.5 engine hesitates/sputters/lurches for a second now and
then under normal driving conditions (highway, cruising, foot steady on
gas). Reason: plug wires were going bad. (Paul F. Schikora )

Problem: hesitation/lurching. Solution: fouled plugs. Oil fouled plugs
may indicate serious problems or just bad PCV valve.

Problem: 3.0 V-6 bogging on acceleration. Solution: clean the throttle
body if it has gumming or varnish. You may have to clean the throttle
plate edges with Scotch Bright pads and clean the bore using a good
carburetor spray solvent.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
48. 3.9 liter (pre-1993) common problem - PREVENT IT

My 1992 Dakota 3.9L needed a new timing chain and gears
at 49,000 miles. This was originally diagnosed as &quot;mis-phased&quot;
distributer, and &quot;fixed&quot; to some degree.
....
According to one of the service managers, the 1992 Magnums had a
&quot;single roller&quot; roller chain. The 93+ engines have the more typical
double roller. This may be a common problem for the pre-93s.

The misfiring had been happening sometimes on upshifts, but worsened as
performance sagged. The misfiring occurs when the rotor gets enough out
of phase that the spark gets fed to the wrong cylinder. Ignition timing is
not changed by this
problem, valve timing *is*,
and distributer rotor &quot;phase&quot; is. Get it fixed SOON. (Ron Luse)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
49. Turbo cuts out/power limited/power loss light

Under hard acceleration, the engine would cut out, rock like hell and
the check engine light would come on (until I released the pedal). (2.2
turbo) It turned out to be a disconnected vacuum hose to the wastegate
assembly. (Ralph J. Zottola) If the wastegate is not
opening, the turbo will overboost, the the computer will cut the fuel.
As the RPM decreases, the boost lowers and the fuel comes back on. (Mac
Alan Crossett)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
50. Jeep 4.0 EFI engine stalls at a stop (Jeep 4.0 stalling).

The problem is the flywheel sensor. It is located by following the
wires from the along the firewall and along the bellhousing. These
sensors get worn out from debris and it also might be just the
wires going to it. I had the same problem and took it to a dealer
and they couldn't figure it out either. (Ken Talley)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
--------------------------------------------
54. 3.0 V-6 hesitation or bogging on acceleration

Check throttle body for gumming or varnish. You may have to clean the
throttle plate edges with Scotch Bright pads and clean the bore using a
good carburetor spray solvent.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
73. LH transmission clunk / rough downshift

(Blair Wetmore)'s dealer reprogrammed the 4-speed
transmission's computer to cure the shudder when the torque converter locked up
under light throttle. Downshifts at low speeds are much better.

(Vincent Paul) notes that there is a TSB on other four-speed
automatic transmission shudders and mis-shifts.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
77. 3-speed automatic flare-up / slow 1-2 shifts

profgmby and Wayne Taylor both had vehicles with 3-speed
TorqueFlites. In colder weather the engine flares or shifts slowly during
the first few hundred yards. profgmby says this causes no problems and has
over 150,000 miles on his.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
80. Power loss or gas mileage loss

Vaughn Smith's 2.5 was losing power and mileage. While replacing a burnt
rotor (one thing to look at), he took off the Hall effect sensor. He saw
that it read when each &quot;vane&quot; on the distributor shaft passed the pickup
point; the inner surface of the vane, though, was extremely dirty. He
replaced the rotor and cleaned the vane, and found that gas mileage and
power increased. He also found this problem on a 2.2 TBI and a 2.2 Turbo,
with some improvement in each case.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
82. Poor mileage, cold starts

George Lobay's 2.2 TBI had poor gas mileage, poor cold starts, and codes
17, 22, and 52. The cause was a bad connection in the circuit to the
coolant sensor, causing the computer to guess the engine temperature (high
idle). The cure: cleaning near the coolant sensor connector, on the round
6-position connector in behind the battery; and on the bulkhead connector
on the driver's side. Then check voltage at coolant sensor (leave it
connected, just skin a bit off the insulation of each wire and tap in with
your multimeter) it should be somewhere in the 3 Volt range. If that
doesn't do it the only connector left is the one on the computer. Note:
don't forget that if you remove the computer connector you must re-grease
it by Chrysler procedures.

--------------------------------------------
83/ Cold start/initial run problem - MMC 2.6

(Courtesy Marvin Stockman) The Mitsubishi 2.6's carburetor choke pulloff
tends to break; the only fix is a $700 replacement. I have made a twisted
loop (like a hangmans noose) of soft metal wire and place the noose section
around the stud that holds the air cleaner duct. I let the twisted straight
section hang down into the throat of the carburetor. I try to get the wire
as close to the wall of the carburetor as I can. This has the effect of
preventing the choke plate from closing completely, and eliminates any cold
running problem. It is important to use thin wire ( I used soft aluminum
wire) in order to keep the opening small, otherwise the initial idle is
very high. Another solution would be to drill a small hole in the choke
plate. During very cold weather, I pump the accelerator 4 to 5 times and
the car starts right up.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------

For more, visit <a href="http://www.allpar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/</a> - trouble, fix, help, and EEK!
sections mainly

Report this message

#4: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 3/6

Posted on 2006-05-23 06:24:12 by faq

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part3
Posting-Frequency: 15 days
Last-modified: 2004/4/13
Version: 4.5

Modifications and detailed fixes are at the web site -
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/</a>

IMPORTANT. Do not attempt to respond to <a href="mailto:faq&#64;allpar.com." target="_blank">faq&#64;allpar.com.</a>
Due to spam this address DOES NOT GO ANYWHERE.
Instead, reply to faq2 at that allpar /dot/ com address.
Thank you.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
See the very last part of this section for reading ESA computer codes
without a scan tool! Useful for those without the key-turn-watch-light
feature (e.g. 1985 Caravans) -- and those with it!

Note that engine codes have been updated since this list was created. See
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html</a> for an updated list.

Contents:
1. Engine Codes
2. [Outdated and removed]
3. Classic Car Troubleshooting
4. Reading codes without a scan tool
(computer controlled, carbureted engines)
5. Crankcase inlet air filter, 2.2/2.5 engines.

DISCLAIMER:
While effort has been taken to insure the accuracy of the information
contained in this FAQ list compilation, the author and contributors
assume no responsibility for errors or omissions, or for damages
resulting from the use of the information. The information may be
reproduced IF credit is given to the writers and the maintainer; and
that it is not published without the prior written permission of the
maintainer; that the maintainer receives, without needing to ask, a free
copy of the final material; and that no changes are made without the
express permission of the maintainer (David Zatz who is at
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/</a>).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
The latest copy may be obtained from <a href="http://www.allpar.com/faq.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/faq.html</a>
- - - - - - - - - - - -

FAQ for rec.autos.makers.Chrysler - Part III

********************************************************
COMPUTER CODES

THESE ONLY WORK IF YOU HAVE FUEL INJECTION. Otherwise, see the web site or
the &quot;troubleshooting electronic feedback carburetors&quot; section.

Start with the ignition off. Within five seconds, switch the key on, off,
on, off, on. (On is *not* start!)

The &quot;check engine&quot; light will flash. Count the flashes Each code is a two
digit code, so a (for example) 23 would be FLASH FLASH &lt;pause&gt; FLASH FLASH
FLASH &lt;loong pause&gt;

It will never flash more than 9 times, watch for pauses!
55 is end of codes, 33 is normal if you don't have air conditioning.

When the computer indicates major failure, it will activate Limp In mode,
which guesses about data to compensate for sensor failure.

*** NOTE - NEWER VEHICLES ***

See <a href="http://www.ptcruizer.com/computer-codes.html" target="_blank">http://www.ptcruizer.com/computer-codes.html</a> for a new, revised list of
computer codes and instructions on how to get them. These codes appear to
have been phased in starting in around 1998.

***

Please note that some codes are NOT included below, this is not a complete
listing. (From Herb with additions by Charles Hobbs. Basis: Mopar Mailing
List info.)

* Activates Power Limited/Check Engine light.

11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall
effect)
OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth;
OR loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor
12 Battery or computer recently disconnected
- Fraser Shortt said code 12 appeared with some other codes
in 1989 and possibly later computers as well.
13* MAP sensor or vacuum line may not be working
14* MAP sensor voltage below .16V or over 4.96V

NOTE - on early Neons, a computer error may light the Check Engine light and
show one or more of these codes. If this happens, bring it in so the dealer
can
reprogram the computer (about ten minutes).

15 No speed/distance sensor signal
16* Loss of battery voltage detected with engine running
17 (1985 turbo only): knock sensor circuit
17 Engine stays cool too long (bad thermostat or coolant sensor?)

21 Oxygen sensor signal doesn't change (stays at 4.3-4.5V)
Probably bad oxygen sensor
22* Coolant sensor signal out of range
- May have been disconnected to set timing
23* Incoming air temperature sensor may be bad
24* Throttle position sensor over 4.96V (SEE NOTE #3)
25 Automatic Idle Speed (AIS) motor driver circuit shorted
or target idle not reached, vacuum leak found
26 Peak injector circuit voltage has not been reached
(need to check computer signals, voltage reg, injectors)
(SEE NOTE #4 BELOW)
27 Injector circuit isn't switching when it's told to (TBI)
OR (MPI) injector circuit #1 not switching right
OR (turbo) injector circuit #2 not switching right
OR (all 1990-) injector output driver not responding
- check computer, connections

31 Bad evaporator purge solenoid circuit or driver
32 (1984 only) power loss/limited lamp or circuit
32 EGR gases not working (1988) - check vacuum, valve
32 (1990-92, all but Turbo) computer didn't see change in
air/'fuel ratio when EGR activated
- check valve, vacuum lines, and EGR electrical
33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted
(may be in the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit)
34 (1984-86) EGR solenoid circuit shorted or open
34 (1987-1991) speed control shorted or open
35 Cooling fan relay circuit open or shorted
35 (trucks) idle switch motor fault - check connections
36 (turbo) Wastegate control circuit open or shorted
36 (3.9/5.2 RWD) solenoid coil circuit (air switching)
36 (Turbo IV) #3 Vent Solenoid open/short
37 Shift indicator light failure, 5-speed
OR
part throttle lock/unlock solenoid driver circuit (87-89)
OR
solenoid coil circuit (85-89 Turbo I-IV)
OR
Trans temparature sensor voltage low (1995 and on; see NOTE 2)

41* Alternator field control circuit open or shorted
42 Automatic shutdown relay circuit open or shorted
42 Fuel pump relay control circuit
42 Fuel level unit - no change over miles
OR
42 Z1 voltage missing when autoshutdown circuit energized (SEE NOTE #6)
43 Peak primary coil current not achieved with max dwell time
OR
43 Cylinder misfire
OR
43 Problem in power module to logic module interface
44 No FJ2 voltage present at logic board
OR
44 Logic module self-diagnostics indicate problem
OR
44 Battery temperature out of range (see Note #1!)
45 Turbo boost limit exceeded (engine was shut down by logic module)
46* Battery voltage too high during charging or charging system
voltage too low
47 Battery voltage too low and alternator output too low

51 Oxygen sensor stuck at lean position (lean condition)
OR
51 Internal logic module fault ('84 turbo only)
52 Oxygen sensor stuck at rich position (SEE NOTE #5!)
OR
52 Internal logic module fault ('84 turbo only)
53 Logic module internal problem
54 No sync pickup signal during engine rotation (turbo only)
OR
54 Internal logic module fault ('84 turbo only)
55 End of codes

61 &quot;Baro&quot; sensor open or shorted
62 EMR mileage cannot be stored in EEPROM
62 PCM failure SRI mile not stored
63 Controller cannot write to EEPROM
64 Catalytic converter efficiency failure
65 Power steering switch failure

88 Start of test (not given on most computers)


NOTE #1.

The power module has an air-cooled resistor which senses incoming air
temperature. The logic modules uses this information to control the field
current in the alternator. This code applies ONLY to alternators whose
voltage is computer regulated. If you lose the feed to keep RAM
information stored
when the engine's off, you also lose battery voltage sensing. -- Bohdan Bodnar

NOTE #2

From the 1995 TRUCK manuals: the trailer towing package includes a
transmission coolant temp sensor while the standard package doesn't.
This may cause the low (no) voltage indication. -- J.E. Winburn

NOTE #3

Matt Rowe comments: The throttle
postion circuit tells the computer how far the accelerator is depressed.
The Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is on the throttle body on
the opposite side of the throttle cable. The connector should
have a round rubber cover over the connections. Clear the fault
codes, start the car and try jiggling the wires/connectors to try
to trip a fault code. Loss of this signal could cause other problems.

NOTE #4

During cranking, the computer will test the current through the
injector to see whether there's too much resistance in the injector's
path. If there is, code 26 is set.
The problem may be cured with tuner cleaner on the connectors.
For TBI engines, the injector's cold resistance should be between
0.9 and 1.2 ohms (specs vary with year). This is a peak-and-hold
injector. With the engine idling the
peak period should be about 1.2 milliseconds whereas the hold period
will vary. If it's lower than this at idle, then the injector's shorted or
there's a defect in the injector driver circuit. (Bohdan Bodnar)

NOTE #5

Wade Goldman wrote: In my case, the breather tube leading into the
catalytic converter had rusted and become detached. This some how would
cause the sensor to read an over rich condition and run crummy. I did not
trust the reliability of the weld over a corroded surface and opted for
the more expensive route of replacing the converter, breather tube and all.

NOTE #6

The Z1 voltage is the voltage of the circuits fed by the autoshutdown
relay. This typically includes fuel pump and switched-battery feed to the
ignition coil(s). In my Le Baron, the Z1 circuit leaves the power module
and splits into two paths: the fuel pump and the positive side of the
ignition coil. Internal to the power module is the auto shutdown relay (in
my case, it's a sealed box about 1&quot; by 1&quot;). The output voltage is
monitored to determine whether the relay responds correctly. I suspect
that the ASD relay (and, therefore, the Z1 circuit) also feeds the fuel
injector(s) driver(s) and current sensing circuit, but can't prove this.

I've used the Z1 voltage to test for good power connections to the power
module. I connected my OTC 500 multimeter from the battery's positive post
to the ignition coil's switched battery terminal and measured the voltage
drop using the bar graph to monitor peak voltages. Voltage spikes of
around 200 mV to 300 mV are ok -- anything more means tv tuner cleaner time
(or replacing the power module). Another thing to check is the maximum
voltage drop during the priming pulse. With the old power module, I was
losing about 2 volts across the circuit; the replacement is losing about
1/4 volt. (Thanks, Bohdan Bodnar)

**************** CLASSIC CAR TROUBLESHOOTING ****************
(1950s-some 80s)

FOR MORE, VISIT <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/vintage.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/vintage.html</a>

Many of these were taken from the A-Bodies site at <a href="http://www.valiant.org/" target="_blank">http://www.valiant.org/</a>

C1. Won't start (&lt;Dave&gt;):

Check the ballast resistor. It's a little white block attached to the
metal between the engine and the driver, with a single bolt; wires plug
into each side. It's easy to replace and under $5.

If the starter makes a rapid clicking noise, your battery may be worn, even if
you can see your headlights.

If the engine was wet, dry it, separate the wires, and try again, Use
silicone spray or &quot;wire drier&quot; or, better yet, replace your wires with
really good ones ($25-40 mail order). These will probably improve your gas
mileage and power as well.

Dan Stern adds: Whitaker's Multi-Mag comes in the same colors and
insulation materials as original, but uses the spiral-wound
construction that you find in wires such as Accel and Jacobs. Lower
resistance, but no irritating radio noise. They have a lifetime guarantee
and don't cost more than regular carbon-string type wires. The
Slant-6 wire set (32605 for pre-75) has the correct 1-piece moulded
plug boots. They are also sold under the Borg Warner/BWD KoolWire name.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C2. Anything from pollution to loss of power (&lt;Dave&gt;)

This may be caused by leaking vacuum hoses or mechanics
disconnecting your vacuum hoses. If you like to breathe, and you want
your car to perform well, replace all of the vacuum hose -- it costs
maybe 10 cents per foot. Just get a few yards and do
it one day (warning: you may need different kinds or sizes. You may need to
take
bits of the old stuff into the shop). Make sure hoses are not kinked.

Vacuum leaks caused by leaking hoses that look okay to the naked eye may
result in the following diagnoses by mechanics:
* Need new carburetor
* Need new transmission
* Need new engine
* Need valve job
* Need new mechanic.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C3. Stalling (&lt;Dave&gt;)

See the above section on vacuum hoses. Turning the cold or warm idle
screw on the carburetor is a quick fix that doesn't solve the real
problem. If the car stalls when cold, lubricate the choke well. If it
stalls when wet, try getting much better ignition wires (lifetime
warranty, good brand, about $30). Also try:
* Put window insulating tape (foam) over the top of the electronic
ignition module
* Spray the little wires with silicone spray or wire drier
* Check for vacuum leaks (see above).
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C4. Windshield wipers won't work ():

Put window insulating tape (foam) over the top of the wiper motor.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C5. Water leaks into the car:

A problem on many A-bodies (Valiant/Dart group). May be solved by keeping
the cowl (that grille between the hood and windshield) free of leaves and
gunk, and by straightening out and emptying out the air conditioner
condensation drain. The black tube that carries a/c water may be seen on
the firewall (the metal between the engine and the driver). It is small and
behind other stuff. Sometimes the end of this black tube freezes to itself
and must be opened with a knife or razor.

See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/a/water.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/a/water.html</a>
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C6. runs rough cold, seems to improve with heat

George Young suggests:
1) Not enough voltage from old damp coil? - new coil.
2) EGR valve plunger binding open?
- remove and plug manifold vacuum hose to EGR circuit.

Dave adds: Better wires, high quality rotor/distributor cap for
best fit. Check the stove, that big metal thing on many engines that feeds
warm air from the engine to the air intake through a usually-rotten or missing
hose. The vacuum-operated flap may also not be functioning for one reason or
another, usually a bad vacuum hose. This is common. Dan Stern notes the flap is
controlled by the Thermostatic Air Cleaner vacuum motor...

George Young adds: My old 318 ran rough when cold and
wet, would stall out until warm. Choke was the problem. Manifold
carboned up and wouldn't pass heat to choke coil thermostat. Changed to
manual choke and no more problem and increased gas mileage

Dan Stern noted that driveability problems could be caused by a bad choke
heater
control unit, which may short out and shunt full power to the electric choke,
causing it to heat up prematurely.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C7. Lean-Burn (computer-controlled carbureted engine) rough idle

1). Are your coolant temperature sensor connection ok? If not, the
computer will see a cold engine and will run rich.
2). Are the oxygen sensor connections ok?
3). Is the heated air inlet operating correctly?
4). Vacuum leaks? Check all vacuum hoses with a religious fervor!
The leak's location many not even be obvious!
5). Carburetor problems: float low? valve seat damage? I doubt the
latter since it appears that the problem arose quite suddenly. The
following is something I've used on computer-controlled carbureted
engines many times: 1). Connect a high impedance dwell meter to the
mixture control solenoid, set the meter to the 6 cylinders scale, run
the engine around 2000 rpm until hot and see the dwell. If the a/f
mixture's ok, you'll see the dwell oscillating about 30 degrees. Low
dwell with oscillations =&gt; a/f mixture lean and running closed loop.
High dwell with oscillations =&gt; a/f mixture rich and running closed
loop. Dwell at or below 10 degrees =&gt; system stuck lean. Dwell at or
above 50 degrees =&gt; system stuck rich. The latter two extremes indicate
closed loop operation since open loop operation typical will show a
stable dwell reading between 20 and 30 degrees (usually, closer to 20).
Do not do this test at idle since some engines will be operated in open
loop at idle REGARDLESS of the coolant temperature sensor's output.
Incidently, I've just outlined the procedure for GM's &quot;System
Performance Test&quot; which is used on GM C3 carbureted engines.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C8. Gas gauge acts funny: See #34. (part 4)
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C9. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow -- see #39 (part 4)
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C10. Slant Six problems

Cold driveability problems tend to stem from poorly
adjusted choke and choke pulloff, bad accelerator pump, and sloppy carb
rebuilds
(Carter BBS one barrel is better than Holley 1920.)
Other big driveability problem source is the fact that the vibration
damper outer ring tends to slip, which makes the timing mark WAY OFF. Which
means timing would never be accurately set. Also check for timing chain
stretch.

Check by putting the engine at #1 TDC - top of compression stroke (both valves
closed) and see where the timing mark is. There are companies that re-bond
dampers with new silicone material. I think one is called Damper Dudes,
out of
California. I don't know if this happens on other CC engines. Basically, if
your damper has an inner hub and an outer ring sandwiching rubber bonding
material, this can happen.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C11. 318 V8 troubleshooting

Bruce Martin wrote:
One very common fault with the otherwise wonderful 318 is that the
exhaust crossover in the intake manifold (which warms the base
of the carb) becomes clogged. This is common so it should be
among the first things you check. (This problem was addressed on the
Magnum engines)

CURT PINCK wrote:
It is interesting the wide variety of timing specs given for the 318, all the
way from 2 degrees ATDC to 16 degrees ATDC, depending on the type of engine
and
vehicle...Most books recommend not to try to time by ear, even if you have
experience doing this.

Ted Devey adds two more steps:
1. examine the reluctor teeth in the distributor for possible damage,
nicks etc. which can happen if the gap gets too small. If there is damage
to the
teeth, replace the reluctor.

2. Several years ago I dismantled the Carter 2-barrel carburettor and
reassembled it with the jet assembly upside down. There is no obvious wrong
way.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C13. Seat belt looseness

During the late 70's up through the late 80's all American cars had
something called a window shade mechanism to allow for a small amount of slack
to build-up in the shoulder belt. This was to prevent people from complaining
that their belts were too tight. I experienced (ref:June '87 Car and Driver
article by Patrick Bedard) a problem where the seatbelt built up too much
slack.
Sometimes the belts, like a windowshade, would never return at all. There is
usually a large plastic button on the 'B' pillar that needs to be fooled into
thinking the door is always opened, which by the way disables the window shade
mechanism and is how the belts return 'home' when you get out of the car.
Cut
the plastic button very close to the 'B' pillar, being careful not to cut into
the inner spring
Take a cotter pin and put it through the loops of the spring, this
prevents the
spring from ever retracting. Chrylser mini-vans are easier in that they
have a
rotating plastic cam with a striker pin that is engaged by the closing door.
Just cut the striker pin and you eliminate the problem.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C14. Low front end

Many late 60's and early 70's A-body Chrysler products had a problem
with the rear mount for the torsion bar. Water collects in the channel
and rust occurs. After a decade or so the channel that the mount is
welded into rusts through and the mount twists and that side of the
car falls onto the rebounce (sp?) bumper. If this is what happened you
will need to find a local frame/suspension/alignment shop that has
someone who has welded in new material to replace the rusted stuff and
then realign the ride height when done. (Thanks, Chris Jardine).

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C15. Pinging on V-8s

Pete O Dickerson wrote: My 75 Dodge Swinger 318 would ping at part throttle
operation, not at full throttle (floored!) like you might expect. Just going
over an overpass or up a hill the engine would ping and clatter, even
though the
ignition timing and carburetor were set correctly.

The manifold was made from cast metal. The molten metal was poured into a
mold
through a little hole and when the manifold was finished, the little hole was
plugged up with a little rubber plug. Well, after a few years this little
plug
would dry up, shrink, and fall out, leaving a hole in the manifold. This hole
would cause a lean condition to exist at part throttle operation, by
letting air
leak in.

Try removing the carb and shining a flashlight down into the manifold and
seeing
if there is a hole in the bottom of the manifold. You can either plug it
up or
replace the manifold with a more performance oriented unit.

(The maintainer adds: invest in a vacuum gauge, they are cheap!)
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
C16: Fast idle, then stalling.

&gt;From Timothy Economou: If you start your car and it runs for a while at fast
idle and then it starts to load up and then stalls. There is this little
round
thing on the open end of your breather that closes the outside air when
your car
is at fast idle and lets it draw air from the manifold. (Stove control). Check
it.

Editor's note: the stove control is frequently bad on vintage vehicles. The
vacuum hose, control, and mechanics of the flap in the air horn should be
checked. See above.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------

=========================

DIAGNOSING PROBLEMS IN COMPUTER CONTROLLED
CARBURETED ENGINES

From: Bohdan L Bodnar

This is the procedure I've used to diagnose air/fuel
mixture problems in computer controlled carbureted engines; the
procedure can also be used to set the idle air/fuel mixture
without exhaust gas analysis. The procedure is
based on the General Motors System Performance Test.

THEORY

The a/f mixture is controlled by a MIXTURE CONTROL SOLENOID (MC
solenoid). This is a valve which operates at a fixed frequency
(typically, 10 Hz) and whose duty cycle (valve's ON time divided by
period) is varied. That is, the valve is pulse width modulated. When
the valve is turned on, the incoming a/f mixture is fully leaned; when
off, fully enrichened. The former is called a &quot;lean command&quot; whereas
the latter is called a &quot;rich command.&quot; By varying the duty cycle of the
MC solenoid, the AVERAGE a/f mixture can be varied. In GM products,
this valve directly varies the incoming fuel and air flow. In Chryslers, only
the
incoming fuel flow is directly varied.

The valve has a two wires electrical connector. On wire is connected to
switched battery voltage whereas the other is connected to a power
transistor in the computer and is a source of switched ground.

During closed-loop operation the following will occur (assume the oxygen
sensor is sensing a lean condition -- its voltage will be low):

1). The computer gradually decreases the MC solenoid's duty cycle.

2). The exhaust eventually becomes rich enough that the oxygen sensor's
output will swing high (about 1 volt).

3). The computer gradually increases the MC solenoid's duty cycle.

4). The exhaust eventually becomes lean enough that the oxygen sensor's
output will swing low (about 0 volt).

The cycle now repeats. A device for monitoring the solenoid's duty
cycle (such as a dwell meter) will show a constantly varying duty cycle.
The frequency of the oscillations will depend on the how fast the
computer varies the duty cycle and the engine's RPM. An AVERAGE duty
cycle of 50% corresponds to, on the average, NO average a/f correction.
Stated differently, everything is operating correctly. An average duty
cycle of LESS THAN 50% corresponds to, on the average, a rich command
(the computer is compensating for a lean condition). An average duty
cycle GREATER THAN 50% corresponds to, on the average, a lean command.

DIAGNOSIS AND SETTING IDLE A/F MIXTURE

Monitoring the MC solenoid's average duty requires (for most people) the
use of high impedance dwell meter. A low impedance dwell meter may be
used unless it affects engine operation; stay away from self-powered
dwell meters. Following the GM procedure, set the dwell meter to the
six cylinders scale REGARDLESS of the number of cylinders in the engine.
At this setting, 30 degrees will correspond to a 50% duty cycle, 60 to a
100% duty cycle, and 0 to a 0% duty cycle. Run the engine until closed
loop operation is present; this will be indicated by a varying dwell
(see footnote 1 for deviations from this procedure). Once the engine is
hot, not the average dwell -- the reading should vary equally above 30
degrees and equally below 30 degrees. The following is a brief trouble
listing:

1). DWELL NOT VARYING: system is operating in open loop.

2). DWELL STUCK AT 10 DEGREES OR LOWER: full rich command is present;
the computer is compensating for WHAT APPEARS TO BE a massive fuel flow
reduction (check for dirt in carburetor, air injection system stuck in
upstream position, vacuum leaks, improper a/f mixture setting...).

3). DWELL STUCK AT 50 DEGREES OR UP: full lean command is present
(check for float stuck low, valve seat damage, oxygen sensor's sense
lead shorted to battery voltage, etc.)

4). DWELL OSCILLATING, AVERAGE READING IS BELOW 30 DEGREES: average
rich command is present (check for vacuum leaks, dirt in carburetor's
jets, improperly set a/f mixture...)

5). DWELL OSCILLATING, AVERAGE READING IS ABOVE 30 DEGREES: average
lean command is present. Check for incorrectly set a/f mixture, float
stuck low, valve seat damage, clogged air filter, etc...).

Based on the above descriptions, it should be fairly clear on how to set
the idle a/f mixture: merely set the mixture so that the average dwell
is 30 degrees. Now, suppose the system's dwell is not varying, but the
sensors are working properly, the upper radiator hose is hot...

Several cars with small engines have the oxygen sensor mounted fairly
far away from the engines. During idle conditions, the sensor
may cool off to the point that it will not operate.
Turn off all electrical accessories (so
as to provide a minimal load on the engine) and use the idle stop screw
on the carburetor to gradually increase the idle rpm until the sensor
begins oscillating. Ensuring a negligible load on the engine guarantees
that the carburetor will be operating mostly on its idle circuit. Now,
set the a/f mixture so that the average dwell is 30 degrees.

Note that the a/f mixture setting procedure assumes that NO fuel
delivery problems (vacuum leaks, clogged carburetor, etc.) are present.

FOOTNOTES

[1] In some engines the a/f mixture is varied REGARDLESS
of whether the engine is in closed loop operation or not.
Consider setting the a/f mixture or diagnosing
at a slightly increased rpm.

**************************************************

5. REPLACING CRANKCASE INLET AIR FILTERS

If you remove the air cleaner and look at it from the front, the
breather (crankcase filter) will be in the &quot;box&quot; at the lower right
side. To get at it, you remove the 8 or so machine screws and the
bottom of this &quot;box&quot; will fall off. The filter is held in place by a
crudely placed screen. Lee makes a replacement filter (about
$2). In my Le Baron, I ended up replacing all the screws with
self-tapping sheet metal screws since the factory had almost every one
overtightened. --- Bohdan Bodnar

David Zatz works at <a href="http://www.toolpack.com/" target="_blank">http://www.toolpack.com/</a>

Report this message

#5: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 5/6

Posted on 2006-05-23 06:24:23 by faq

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part5
Posting-Frequency: 15
Last-modified: 2002/4/26
Version: 3.9b

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in this compilation, but the author and contributors assume no
responsibility for errors, omissions, or damages resulting from the
use of the information. Some of the information is opinion.
The writers and the maintainer are not authorities. Any part of
this FAQ may be reproduced PROVIDED that credit is given to
the writers and the maintainer; that it is not published in any
form without the prior written permission of the maintainer;
and that the maintainer receives, without needing to ask, a
FREE copy of the final material; and that no changes are made
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PART V - Funny noises, oil leaks, temperature stuff

Note that troubleshooting and diagnostic procedures are
also in sections 3, 4, and 6.

* For heaven's sake, if your antifreeze was just changed and your car
started to overheat, find a different mechanic and purge the system of air
bubbles. (See below).

Index of oil leaks: (funny noises, temperature follow the oil leaks)

1. Oil loss from 2.5 (maybe 2.2) liter engine
2. Oil loss from 2.5/2.2 revisited
10. Oil seepage from the valve cover or oil pan gaskets
25. Oil leak - manual transmission (VERY common)
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6 - MOD 1/96
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake


1. Oil loss from 2.5 (maybe 2.2) liter engine

Chrysler replaced acote's 1991 Acclaim 2.5's valve seals (though there was
no blue smoke on startup) and the PCV valve, and installed an oil
restrictor valve, which he thinks was made standard in 1993. See also #10
and 46. Oil pan leaks appear to be common.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
2. Oil loss from 2.2/2.5 revisited

Joe Coffey used two hose clamps, one at each end, and a better fitting hose
to fix an oil leak from the valve cover to the air breather on a
Shadow/Sundance. Dan LaBrake said the culprit was the hose that went from
the upper part of the valve to the underside of the air breather; oil
collects in the breather and leaks onto the engine.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
10. Oil seepage from the valve cover or oil pan gaskets

** 2.2 and 2.5 liter engines only **

Lemon-Aid Used Car Guide: &quot;1989-93... cylinder head and oil pan gaskets are
prone to leaking.&quot; ... &quot;1990-91 - Owners can get a new cylinder head gasket
cover on models with 2.2L and 2.5L engines.&quot; (Jim Hoare)

<a href="mailto:wmg051760&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">wmg051760&#64;aol.com</a> wrote of p/n 4773193, a new valve cover (1994?) which
forms a superior seal on 2.5 engines, maybe 2.2s too. If anyone actually
gets Chrysler to buy them one, let me know. Chances are you're on your own.

Bob Meyer &lt;<a href="mailto:robert_meyer&#64;ncsu.edu" target="_blank">robert_meyer&#64;ncsu.edu</a>&gt; says: The valve covers on
emission-controlled cars are vented through the inlet hose from the air
cleaner to the valve cover and the PCV valve from the valve cover to the
throttle body/intake manifold. If you are having a problem with valve
cover oil leaks, then you should check whether these hoses, or the small
crankcase air filters in the air cleaner, are blocked first before you
reseal the valve cover.

Around 1987, Chrysler switched from using a gasket to using RTV.
In 1994, they switched to a 1 piece valve cover from a 3 piece cover.

Mike Manning informs us that recall #467, issued in 1990, covers the valve
cover gasket; he says that the gasket was replaced with blue goo. Once this
stuff has set up, the cover needs to be re-tightened. We don't think the
dealers usually do it correctly. Mike finally replaced his with a cork
gasket.

This is a known problem but reps deny it; the situation calls for
assertiveness. Keep checking your engine, especially around the spark plug
area, for seeping oil. Ask that your engine be cleaned every time the
dealer fixes the seepage. If your car is out of warranty, try to have the
seepage fixed anyway. (New advice: on second thought, just do it yourself,
which is easier).

Paul F. Schikora : Went to NAPA and got a gasket set and a bottle of gasket
goo (orange colored stuff). Took my time cleaning the surfaces completely
and applied the gasket &amp; goo per instructions. No more leak. However, I'm
sorry I didn't take the time to reseal the PCV connection cover. It's
always bled quite a bit of oil into the valve and air filter. (Note: this
was for 1987 model, which had a gasket).

JoDee McKenney says: I'd use the gaskets and the high temp silicone on each
of the metal surfaces. This allows a way to seal the parts together and
still get them apart later.

Daniel Stern warns: DO NOT DO THIS on an engine with mechanical lifters
(i.e G/RG engines and early V8s) because there will be hell to pay when it
comes time to adjust the tappet clearance.

Duane P Mantick provides TSB 09-17-89 which advises replacing the original
cover with one using RTV. The &quot;cylinder head cover kit&quot; is PN 5241066 and
contains the cover, five screws, 2 end seals, four studs, but not RTV
sealer PN 6500435. This TSB applies to &quot;1989-1990 all domestic vehicles
with 2.2L or 2.5L EFI engines&quot;

Michael J. Challis &lt;<a href="mailto:bigchall&#64;aone.com" target="_blank">bigchall&#64;aone.com</a>&gt;, a Chrysler Master Tech, wrote that
Mopar RTV silicon works well: &quot;The trick to this stuff is to have a clean
surface. Use brake parts cleaner to remove oil so you have a dry surface
for the RTV to bond to.&quot;

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
25. Oil leak from manual transmission

Applies to all cars and minivans with the manual trans A-523, A-543, and
A-568 (most of them). The TSB (21-24-93) says that &quot;vehicles that are in
the dealership for any other reason should also be inspected for this leak
condition.&quot; What is replaced is a remote vent assembly in place of the
existing lock pin, and a new linkage adjusting procedure for future
service. It should take about 20 minutes. Most dealers will say &quot;no problem
found&quot; unless you stick the service advisor's finger into the oil leak.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6

Jim Thatcher: the smoking from his 3.0 liter engine was coming
from the PCV housing. A redesigned valve cover handles the oil
properly. Details from Keith Vicker (I think): inside the front valve
cover, the PCV housing does not always drain oil properly. Drilling
holes in this MAY cure the problem - we have no experience with that.

Another reason:

In the older 3.0 heads the exhaust valve guides sink into the head. The
usual repair is to remove both cylinder heads, knock the guides back to
their normal position, and have snap rings installed onto the guides so
that they don't sink again. (Eric Eleazar, Dick Greenfield Dodge)

Check the oil pressure sending unit. You'll see it if you lie down and
look around the starter/oil filter area. A lot of 'em start leaking at
about 75K or so. It'll cost you around $20 to replace. Put a drip pan
under it. Then, gently back the old one out (threaded), and screw the
new one in; don't over-torque it. (Stan A. Bidlack)

Keith Vickers said: ...
Pat Goss said that in his shop only about 1 in 250 needed the heads pulled.
The seals can be replaced without pulling the heads.

DJ Allen said: My '88 3.0L was smoking like a volcano. The valve guides
were all in place. I replaced the valve guide seals while I was in there
and there hasn't been one puff of smoke since. I used Keith Vickers'
procedure. I found an 'on engine' valve spring compressor at my local
parts store for $25 and it worked, but I struggled with it because of
tight clearance.

For more: <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/3fix.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/3fix.html</a>
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake

There is a curtain in the valve cover which prevents most oil from being
blown out the breather. Any oil in mist form should stay in mist and be
captured by the air filter. I had a problem where someone replaced my
leaking valve cover gasket and *forgot* to reinstall the curtain. I was
blowing about a quart every 500 miles. The worst part was that it
*looked* like my rings were blown. You would step on it on the freeway,
oil would pump out the breather, go down the air heater hose and burn on
the exhaust manifold producing oil smoke. (Thomas Lee Grice)

This is often just from a stuck PCV valve. If it is, chances are it's
leaking down to the air filter (and the air intake pipe) from a black
hose which comes up to the air horn (2.2/2.5 engines).

In the 2.5 (probably 2.2 as well) engine, oil can get sucked into the
PCV system unless a baffle plate is installed. He did this and it
worked.




Index of Funny Noises:
1. Noise on turns
2. Dakota creak
3. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
4. 4-cylinders: snapping noise when starting/stopping (see #18)
5. Daytona rattle
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
7. Whining or whistling noises from belt driven accessories
(most FWD vehicles from 89-94).
8. Rattle from back of car (hatchbacks)
9. Rattles/noises from engine compartment
10. Misc rattles
11. Squeak on acceleration (from gas pedal)
12. Rear end noise - Neon
13. Squeal when ac is or goes on: see above, #61.
14. Doors make grinding noise when opening/closing
15. 1996 minivan (Caravan/Voyager/Town &amp; Country) noises
(comprehensive list)
16. 1996 minivan sloshing gas tank
17. Grand Cherokee clunking noise (highway speeds)
18. Clicking/snapping noise on stop (see #4)
19. Clunking
20. Knocking/metallic clanking
21. Drive belt squeal
22. Inexplicable chime
*******
*******
*******

1. Herbert DaSilva &lt;<a href="mailto:hsd&#64;swl.msd.ray.com" target="_blank">hsd&#64;swl.msd.ray.com</a>&gt; writes:

(Problem: Noise happens on left hand turns and some bumps. Was
originally chirping noise, but now more of a rumble. More frequent. Car:
1987 Shadow 2.2, five-speed, 110K miles.)

Isolate the problem with the following test:
1. - Select an off-ramp or empty parking lot where you can attain some
velocity while maintaining a left hand turn when the noise is evident.
2. - Clutch in or slip the tranny into neutral and pump the gas pedal to
rev the engine. If the noise does not change tone when the engine is
revved, the problem is in your driveline. If the noise changes tone
with the speed of the engine, the passenger side engine mount has
probably collapsed.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
2. Dakota creak

my truck had a loud &quot;creak&quot; while driving. The problem: a cover plate
between the converter and the truck body, directly under the front
drivers seat, that flexes under use. The fix was easy-stuff something
between the plate and the body. [Robert Duggan]
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
3. 2.5 liter knock/idle

Cold engine knock a few seconds after startup, lasting about 3-5 minutes
-- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounds like valve lifter or
tappet noise. Noise loudest when weather colder. Usually disappears when
the car is warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for replacement of the computer.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
4. Snapping noise on start/stop

Noise comes from the left side of the engine while starting from or
coming to a stop. More prevalent when engine comaprtment hot.
Diagnosis: With windows closed, trans in drive or first and parking
brake on, put a load onto the gas. Release the load and shift into
reverse. Listen for the noise as you apply a load in reverse. If you
can't hear it, drive at low speeds with several quick, but not hard,
acceleration/deceleration moves. Parts requried: left engine support.
Time: .6 hours (from TSB 09-02-93).
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
5. Daytona rattle

Christopher Sennett Homer: Under the rear hatch are
two black plastic screw things with rubber bushings on the bottom,
at the rear corners on the hatch. When the hatch is closed
it rests on these bushings, now if one, or both, of them are too short
then the hatch pivots on the latch and rattles, so take some pliers
and unscrew the plasic bushings a little to extend them. that should
clear up that hatch rattle.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping

Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There was a TSB, but the dealer
said &quot;you have to complain LOUDLY. The guy called it the 'post shift
bang' &quot;
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
7. Whining or whistling noises (most 89-94 FWD vehicles)

Jim Zimmerman said TSB 21-40-93, affecting most FWD vehicles from 1989
to 1994, covers this. This noise comes from the transmission of the
FWD cars and minivans, with automatic &quot;transaxles built with 3.02 or
3.22 final drive gear ratios. 1994 model year vehicles must have a
transaxle code prior to 1826 for this bulletin to apply.&quot; This is a 7
hour job and replaces MANY parts.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
8. Rattle from back of car

The screws that hold the trim onto the hatchback tend to come loose and
fall off. They cost 22 cents, so get extras.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
9. Rattles from engine compartment

On a 2.2, the plastic hood covering the air cleaner lost a bolt, and
now has a huge rubber band holding it down to keep it from buzzing at
some RPMs. The air injection tube into the catalytic converter has a
filter which used to buzz against the firewall LOUDLY until I
relocated it.

These engines produce a lot of vibration, and there are a lot of hoses
and gismos nearly touching each other. Someone will have to poke her
head inside the engine compartment while an assistant revs up the
engine through the RPMs that it makes noise, and try to isolate the
noise producer. The safe way is to shut the engine off and see if you
can rattle anything with your hand. Also, look for any broken hose or
wire brackets. (Jim Van Damme)
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
10. Misc rattles

On my Sundance (Shadow), *all* the plastic covers that go over the seat
belt mounts were squeaking or rattling. I sprayed them with white
lithium grease where they were attached and where the were scraping or
hitting other plastic parts. (Dave)

Also on my Sundance, I had several instrument panel noises. The mechanic
put foam on the back of the radio faceplate and other easily removable
bits of plastic, which helped somewhat. The center console rubbed
against the underside of the dash. (Dave)
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
11. Squeak on acceleration (from gas pedal)

Get this -- there is a spring under the gas pedal. One squirt with white
lithium grease (well, a dozen squirts) took care of this annoying noise.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
12. Neon rear end noise

<a href="mailto:jbaze&#64;NMSU.Edu" target="_blank">jbaze&#64;NMSU.Edu</a> (Jody L. Baze) sez:
Look under the rear of the car - shouldn't need to jack it up, it's
accessible. The sway bar is attached to the frame and runs up to near
the wheel where it is attached to the shock assembly with a tie rod.
It was the tie rod attachments that were squeaking.
I applied a few drops of teflon lube (it's what I had on hand) to both
the top and bottom pivot points around the bushings and no more
squeak. Pretty simple...it's a 1-minute job once you know where to lube!
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
14. Doors make grinding noise when opening/closing

<a href="mailto:robert_meyer&#64;ncsu.edu" target="_blank">robert_meyer&#64;ncsu.edu</a> had the same sound when his Stratus was delivered.
He put white lithium grease on the aluminum check straps and cycled the
doors several times.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
15. 1996 minivan noises (comprehensive list)

Bob Jaworski says rattles in the back may be cured by getting the rear
shocks replaced - there is a recall or TSB on this. If your middle seat is
rattling: the hook that holds the seat in may be loose. Crinkling sound
from the steering wheel: Resolved by readjusting column housing
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
16. 1996 minivan sloshing gas tank

Chrysler now has a new bracket with spacers. Many people will need a new
gas tank to replace their warped tank. All under warranty.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
17. Grand Cherokee clunking noise

<a href="mailto:awang&#64;ecl.psu.edu" target="_blank">awang&#64;ecl.psu.edu</a> (Alvin N. Wang) wrote that he had a random clunk/think
noise while at highway speeds. He moved the load bars on his roofrack as
far to the rear as possible and it cured it. The noise had sounded like it
was coming from under the floorboards! A TSB may have been issued on this.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
18. Clicking or snapping in the front end

<a href="mailto:ntmydoin&#64;nyc.pipeline.com" target="_blank">ntmydoin&#64;nyc.pipeline.com</a> (Mark T. Hoops) wrote that a &quot;clicking or
snapping noise in the front end just as braking to a full stop&quot; could be
the left side engine support, especially in a 2.5 liter; but could also be
the strut plates, C/V joints, or loose steering rack bolts.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
19. Clunking

<a href="mailto:djallen&#64;msmail3.hac.com" target="_blank">djallen&#64;msmail3.hac.com</a> had a clunk in his Caravan in the front driver's
side; the dealer didn't find it, but he did. It was the bolt that tightens
around the ball joint pin. He had done a cv joint boot job and had not
tightened the bolt adequately. The ball joint pin would slip up and down
with braking, bumps, whatever. He tightened it up and the problem went
away.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
20. Knocking/metallic clanking

From: <a href="mailto:garanita&#64;gnn.com" target="_blank">garanita&#64;gnn.com</a> (gary cristadoro) writes: A constant
knocking/metallic clanking which increased with engine rpms and got louder
with engine speed on a Jeep turned out to be the vibration dampener
(harmonic balancer) bolted to the driveshaft. It drives via belt all
accessories. You can visually inspect the rubber insulator between the yoke
and counterbalance pulley; if a severe shift has taken place (the two parts
are misaligned and protrude), the fan belt is not aligned with other
pulleys.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
21. Drive belt squeal

Frank E. Tressler Jr. fixed his 1991 Dodge Shadow's (2.2) belt squeal by
removing the washer between the alternator pulley and the alternator. The
washer or shim was approximately 1/8&quot; to 1/16&quot; thick.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
22. Inexplicable chime

B. Bennett pointed out that minivans (possibly other vehicles) may
automatically sound a chime when the turn signal has been left on. This
might come up on long highway ramps. It was part of the Family Value
Package in 1991, maybe others.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------

Temperature stuff

Index:

1. Temperature gauge swings
8. Heater isn't working right (front wheel drive cars)
14. Air blows through the wrong vents
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up
38. Temperature gauge problems
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / coolant loss /
car runs hot / no heat / other coolant shenanigans --
Tom Johnson may help you to prevent $$ problems!
62. Air conditioner (a/c) ineffective OR cycles too often
65. No heat - minivans, maybe others


1. Temperature gauge swings

From: &quot;Frank E. Tressler Jr.&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:wizman&#64;defnet.com" target="_blank">wizman&#64;defnet.com</a>&gt;

Problem: Sundance thermometer swings back and forth. Repair attemps include
replacing the thermostat and both engine temperature sensors. Test the fix
by keeping the temp control on RECIRC and seeing if th gauge stays at a
constant level. If so, check the hose going to from the thermostat housing
to the heater core - it goes through a plastic bypass valve just before
entering the heater core. The hoses on the valve turned out to have been
switched at a prior servicing.

Note that on many cars minor swings are normal during warm-up because the
computer allows small amounts of warm antifreeze into the heater to provide
some early heat while letting the engine warm up.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

8. Heater problems:

() <a href="mailto:vandammej&#64;lonex.rl.af.mil" target="_blank">vandammej&#64;lonex.rl.af.mil</a> had poor heat in his Lancer.
The temperature regulator door was not sealing well in HOT, letting cold
air bypass the heater core. He stuffed a 4-5mm by 12 cm piece of foam
in, closed the door on it, and unhooked the cable until Spring to keep
it in place.

If your radiator cap leaks or the hose to the CRS bottle leaks the
vacuum will be lost and it won't suck the juice back in. Blow on the
bottle to see.

Dennis Lippert notes: The temperature gauge will swing back and forth
until the entire system is warmed fully. This is because you keep
introducing &quot;cold&quot; coolant from the radiator into the engine, rapidly
cooling it. WHen the temp falls enough, the thermostat closes, and the
temp goes back up, repeating the cycle. This is due to a valve which
lets you get heat before the thermostat opens up. It keeps the warm
coolant in the engine *and heater* when the thermostat was closed.

Peter Galambos related: Fixed by flushing the system with oxalic(sp?)
acid (i.e. Prestone Super Flush). Now the heater works great and the
engine temperature changes much less. There was probably a restriction
even though the antifreeze looked fine; a lot of rust flowed out when
flushing.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
14. Air blows through the wrong vents

Problem: under acceleration, air comes through the defroster vents
instead of the vents it's supposed to come through. Reason: a valve that
sits in a vacuum line went bad. That valve leads to a vacuum reserve
tank, and the tank either wasn't forming a vacuum or the vacuum in the
tank couldn't get out. (The reserve tank may also have gone bad, or
there may be a leak in the system). (Lloyd R. Parker)

Dan Stern noted there is a Chrysler TSB on this (24-06-92), which for
all but AB-bodies recommends replacing the vacuum check valve with one that
contains a reserve tank - part 4677204. (AB bodies use this check valve and
a couple of extra parts). Dan said this fix worked on his 1962 Valiant!

On many vehicles, this comes out of a vacuum hose which branches off the
power brake booster; it may look like a film canister or a small funnel. On
the Shadow/Sundance, it is underneath the dashboard and looks like a film
canister. This part is right on top and easy to replace. There is a
replacement check valve sold by Help! in auto parts stores but it does not
contain the reserve tank.

On my own 1991 Spirit, the rubber piece which the canister connects to was
also loose, leaking vacuum. ALL vacuum leaks are bad!

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up

There is a check valve to correct washer nozzle freeze ups (which dealers
may not acknowledge). (Jim Hoare)

In case of emergency, e.g. being stuck on the Interstate, you could add
rubbing alcohol to the solution, but this is not a good permanent solution
because it will not last. I found that using a higher quality wiper fluid
does solve the problem.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
38. Temperature gauge problems

Robert Rowe: With the ignition on, ground the wire coming of the
sending unit momentarily while the enging is warm. If the gauge moves to
the correct temp, the sender is at fault. Do not ground for a long
period of time as this can damage the gauge.

Peter Galambos: Temperature gauge would suddenly jump to 3/4 or almost
full scale for a few seconds and then drop back to center. I hooked a
voltmeter to the temperature sender input to the body computer and
actually saw nice linear voltage swings. It appears
that the gauge is designed to go super non-linear above a certain
temperature. I disconnected the radiator fan long enough to verify that
it was thermostat cycling causing the temperature swing and replaced the
thermostat and antifreeze.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / poor temp regulation

The clamp on the hose to the overflow bottle wasn't tight enough; it had
loosened during recent pressure-checking of the cooling system. --
Louise Penberthy

Ross Gunn heard air (exhaust) bubbling back through the coolant overflow
bottle and had to replace the head gasket was the solution. The dealer
estimated $500; Ross did it himself for under $100.

I managed to trace a slow coolant leak to the point near the firewall
where rubber coolant hoses are clamped to the metal ends of the heater
core tubes. Tightening the clamps a few turns ended the problem. I
probably never would've discovered the culprit had I not noticed that
a nearby cable had an odd green-ish tint. -- Roger Fradenburgh

The 2.2/2.5 liter cooling systems *MUST* be purged of air before
operation; otherwise, coolant flow blockage will result (i.e., hot,
possibly REALLY hot, engine). Partial purging will
cause the engine to run hotter than normal; the temperature
will gradually drop to normal as the system purges itself over
several days/weeks. These engines' cooling systems can be purged
easily by parking the car on an incline (front much higher than
rear) and cycling the engine on/off until the thermostat opens and the
air is expelled into the radiator. The proper way is to use the bleed
screw in the thermostat's housing...on some engines (like my 2.5) this
screw is frozen in place because of lack of use; hence, the heat
soaking of the thermostat's housing. -- Bohdan Bodnar (note:
letting it &quot;purge itself&quot; may lead to negative consequences).

Sometimes you can fry your brand new thermostat if you don't
burp it properly. I would always just crank the heat,
leave the radiator cap off, and start the car to purge the
cooling system. -- Terry L. Howe

We just went through this with my neighbors 3.0L Voyager. He complained
of white smoke in the exhaust, we found oil in the water and vice versa.
The dealer told him $1,000 to replace head gasket; we spent under $300.
We also replaced the timing belt, water pump, plugs &amp; wires, etc while
we were there--the parts weren't expensive. We also replaced the
speedo cable as the best way to get at it was when the heads were off.
The new gaskets solved his problem, and he has more power.
-- <a href="mailto:ssmyers102&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">ssmyers102&#64;aol.com</a>
***
If the cooling system is low on water, the highest parts of the engine
tend to overheat, causing the head to warp and the head gasket to blow
out through the gaps left by the warping. Plymouth Reliants have
temperature gauges and show a high reading within a few minutes of
starting the engine IF it is low on coolant.

If the heater/defroster fan doesn't blow toasty warm when the engine is
hot, you are probably low on coolant. or have to bleed the system more.
It helps to park the car on a grade (front end high), turn the heater
temperature control up all the way, and idle the engine with the
radiator cap off. Then, fill the cooling system. [Use distilled water
- about fiftey cents a gallon from the supermarket] (Tom Johnson)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
62. Air conditioner ineffective OR cycles too often

Jim Zimmerman says: Short cycling [the a/c unit going on and off every
five or ten seconds) would allow it to cool, but not very well. An
independent shop immediately found that the first shop put on a
defective expansion valve in their attempt to repair it. Also, the low
pressure switch was bad. Mine would only act up intermittently. One day
it would cool just fine, the next day it would short cycle again.
--------------------------------------------
65. No heat

Daniel Thomas writes:
[Dealers tried] everything from flushing out the cooling system,
replacing thermostat, replacing heater core, replacing blower motor,
etc. The REAL cause of the problem turned out to be the &quot;automatic
ajjustment&quot; cable on the hot air door. This is the door which allows
the incoming air to go across the heater core to provide heat into the
interior of the van. The damn thing had misadjusted itself a number of
times. The service manuals recommend a way to adjust the door to work
correctly but it isn't always successful even when it appears to be done
correctly. The door must be opened wider than the recommendation
implies then the heat lever is forced to the cold position. This
automaticially readjusts the cable connection to allow the door to open
wider which forces more (all) cold air across the heater core. The
secret is in the adjustment and almost going by the book. I have
personally been successful in fixing a number of vans that didn't give
out enough heat. The job is easy once you figure it out.
--------------------------------------------
--

Report this message

#6: rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 6/6

Posted on 2006-05-23 06:24:24 by unknown

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part6
Posting-Frequency: 15 days
Last-modified: 2004/4/13
Version: 4.4

DISCLAIMER:
Effort has been taken to ensure the accuracy of the information
in this compilation, but the author and contributors assume no
responsibility for errors, omissions, or damages resulting from the
use of the information. Some of the information is opinion.
The writers and the maintainer are not authorities. Any part of
this FAQ may be reproduced PROVIDED that credit is given to
the writers and the maintainer; that it is not published in any
form without the prior written permission of the maintainer;
that the maintainer receives, without needing to ask, a
FREE copy of the final material; and that no changes are made
without the express permission of the maintainer
(Dr. David Zatz - <a href="http://www.toolpack.com/" target="_blank">http://www.toolpack.com/</a> surveys and organizational
development consulting - he also hangs out at <a href="http://www.ptcruizer.com/" target="_blank">http://www.ptcruizer.com/</a> ).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
IMPORTANT. Do not attempt to respond to (e-mail address removed).
Due to spam this address DOES NOT GO ANYWHERE.
Instead, reply to faq2 at that allpar /dot/ com address.
Thank you.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Please do NOT ask me car-related questions, as I have a limited.
personal knowledge. Thank you. See
<a href="http://www.allpar.com/trouble.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/trouble.html</a> or
rec.autos.makers.chrysler instead.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
PART VI - Other Troubleshooting / Quick Fixes

There is a specific Neon FAQ.
This section of the FAQ may be eliminated soon.

Other parts of this FAQ:
Part 3 - Classic cars
Part 4 - Driveability and transmission
Part 5 - Funny noises and oil leaks and temperature stuff

* Many problems are caused by poor battery connections to the cables,
which can cause signals to the computer to be incorrect without
(or with) fault codes being registered. Check and clean the
battery terminals and cables first!

* Additional information on troubleshooting and repairs is on
the web site at <a href="http://www.allpar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/</a>

* Some of these issues are discussed in detail at <a href="http://www.valiant.org/" target="_blank">http://www.valiant.org/</a>
(a site dedicated to A-bodies like the Dodge Dart and Plymouth Valiant
and Plymouth Duster.)

Note: there are *several* entries for some problems.

1. Fuel leak - ALL 2.2 engines
2. Rampage (maybe other models) - water leaks
3. Loose steering
5. Doors freezing shut
8. Air conditioner (a/c) smell
9. Caravan/Voyager door won't open/close
11. Check Engine light went on
13. DING sound when hard cornering
20. Speedometer doesn't work
21. ABS jerky
24. Brake rotor warping
29. Smoky exhaust
32. Water leak in Shadow/Sundance hatch
36. Control/status panel/console acting funny
52. ABS note - Chrysler and GM minivans (see also #64)
55. Service engine light goes on.
56. Cruise control problems
57. Battery charging problems
58. Sundance/Shadow (possibly others) hatchback leak
59. Car/minivan will not start; makes CLICK noise instead
60. Spongy / mushy brakes
61. Squeal when a/c is/goes on; adjusting belt tension
63. Weatherstrip repairs
64. Preventing ABS problems
66. Jeep 4.0 noise
67. LH clunk on acceleration
68. Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze wipers acting funny
69. 4-speed auto trans problems - misc
70. Shimmy under acceleration - 35-45 mph
72. Gas gauge acting funny
74. Backfiring
75. PREVENTION - 3.0 liter engine
78. CV boot replacement
81. Rear defrost activated by brake lights
84. Odd behavior when starting (e.g. wiper activation)
86. Fluid leaks (inside the car)

============================================================ ====
1. FUEL LEAKS:

There was a recall for fuel line replacements on some vehicles in 1988. A
rigid line was replaced with a flexible one between the metal line and fuel
pressure regulator. (Sherrie Settle).

All 2.2 turbo owners should check their fuel clamps for leaks on a
regular basis. This is VERY important. Tighten them if needed.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
2. Water leaks (Rampage, possibly other L bodies)

Gary Howell &lt;(e-mail address removed).net&gt; says: Under the windsheild at
each lower corner, holes rust through. The best fix is to remove the
windsheild and have the body work done properly. The cheap fix is to
remove the windsheild trim and fill the holes with RTV. The holes are not
always visable to the eye, sometimes the holes are under the glass or like
a micro screen.

If a speaker wire has been run through the door seal, water will
sometimes follow the wire past the seal.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
3. Loose steering

Check the ball joints and tie rods. For M-bodies and A-bodies, try
replacing the current steering box with a new police-type steering chuck
from Mopar Performance (or used from a police car or taxi).
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
5. Doors freezing shut

Jim Van Damme suggestd:
1. Open the door panel and undo the nuts that hold the door latch onto the
door. Slide the whole latch down (or was it up?) to allow the handle to
engage sooner.
2. Lubricate it well (de-ice with WD-40) when you've got the panel off.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
8. A/C smell

David Ta believes the a/c smell comes from condensation collecting on the
horizontal fins of compressors used on some models. One way to prevent this
is to blow hot air for a couple of minutes before turning off the ignition.

There is a Chrysler extra warranty of 7/70 on LH evaporators).

This is a problem on many different makes and models, and normally the
dealer will try to solve it using fungicide. David Ta also said a GM friend
of his mixed water and baking soda, and poured it into the drain area next
to the firewall, later rinsing with a water hose. He did this once a year
when he winterized.

A new solution (sent by David Ta) was described by Popular Mechanics, in
November 1996: AC Delco's kit No. 15-8632 and relay (if necessary) 15-8264,
to run the blower for 5 minutes, an hour after the ignition is turned off
if the a/c has been turned on for at least 4 minutes. The article also
gives a short-term fix with GM spray can and verifying the evap drain hole
at the firewall is not blocked.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
9. Caravan/Voyager stuck doors:

Mike Stallcup couldn't get his minivan door to close, so he turned the
power locks on and off a few times. Fixed it.

Someone else found the problem to be a loose trim panel held to the back of
the door. The roller on the track at the top/inside of the door was also
out of alignment; the bolts had loosened and the door was not closing
tight. Check the tightness of the bolts.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
11. Check Engine light goes on:

1. This may be due to the need for a periodic service.
2. It may be the oxygen sensor (Steve Sheldon)
3. Check computer codes (see part 3)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
13. DING sound when hard cornering

Paul Schikora suggested this might be the low gas alert being sounded due
to the gas sloshing around in the tank.

Pete Morrissette said he also had a dinging sound, but not the same kind:
his Voyager's sliding door pinged/dinged on bumps and turns. Paul Schikora
said the bolt connecting the door to the arm (which slides in the track at
the front top of the door) sometimes loosened. To check, grab the door
there and try to push/pull it; if it moves in and out, the bolt must be
tightened.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
20. Speedometer doesn't work

There is a TSB out on this problem with the Shadow/Sundance. Take it to
your dealer, they should fix it for free. The TSB was issued in 1994. The
problem is the speed sensor connector; a new one must be spliced in.

Details from Neil Emiro on replacing the speed sensor yourself follow. They
probably apply to all K-based (and extended K-based) cars:

To get it out, you will need a 10mm wrench, a flat blade screwdriver, and
if your car has cruise, a 19mm wrench. Jack the car up. If you look
underneath at the oil pan plug, and look back on the car, to where the
axle goes into the tranny, you will see it. It's mounted in the top of
that extension housing. If your unit is round, just unplug it and remove
the cable if there is one, and pry it up, putting the screwdriver between
the black body of the sensor, and the natural color base. If your unit is
kind of short and diamond shaped, disconnect the wiring and cable, and
there's a 10mm bolt on the far side that you'll probably be able to feel
better than see.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
21. ABS jerky

Dealer reprogramming the PCM fixes the brakes. (Steve Chu)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
24. Brake rotor warping

The dealers have received a bulletin saying that if cars come in with less
than 30,000 miles with worn out brake pads and rotors in need of turning
they are to do it under warranty. (Mary Bucy)

If lug nuts are over-tightened, it places too much stress on the rotors
resulting in warpage soon thereafter. I always go over each lug with a
torque wrench set at 90 ft lbs. (Ted Ruscha)

Jeff Brinkerhoff &lt;(e-mail address removed)&gt; wrote that rotors are a
frequent problem, but that replacing them with aftermarket rotors usually
works well.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
29. Smoky exhaust

From: (e-mail address removed) (Mo Brooks)
Smoke Color / Reason
Black = Too much fuel (probably bad sensor or dirty air cleaner)
Blue = Oil
White = Water

Black smoke on acceleration in early 2.2l engines may come from the fuel
pressure regulator vacuum hose at the elbow; may be a bad injector; or may
be duel to high fuel pressure. You may want to check for restrictions in
the fuel return line.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
32. Water leak in Shadow/Sundance hatch

Tim Drake fixed his 1987 Sundance trunk leak by taking the light cover off
and treated the gaskets and drilled small holes in the bottom of the light
covers, so the water could leak out the bottom.

From: (e-mail address removed) (Wade M. Goldman) fixed the water in his
trunk and right tail light assembly (which caused on tail light to be
dimmer than the other). After replacing the light socket he corrected a gap
between the light assembly moulding and the car with RTV silicone.
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
36. Control/status panel acting funny

Test the Control Panel by holding down the trip and reset buttons,
turning ignition on, releasing the buttons, then pressing the US/Met
button. Read the speedo. Press the US/Met button and you should see a
six. Also check the codes in the engine computer -- (Matt Rowe)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
52. ABS note

See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/ABS.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/ABS.html</a>
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
55. Service engine light goes on.

Service the engine. The light can be shut off with a special tool. Or
remove the bulb.
--------------------------------------------
56. Cruise control problems

Many older cars used both a speed sensor and a speedo cable, so the speed
sensor could go with affecting the speedometer. Fault codes might not
appear if the speed sensor is giving an incorrect signal.
--------------------------------------------
57. Battery charging problems

Check the battery cables, then check the alternator with a test light
and/or a voltmeter or an alternator/charging system analyzer. There are
usually four connections on a Chrysler alternator, one large terminal
(power out), one ground, and two field control wires. To check the field
control wires, test both for voltage with the engine running. One should
show battery voltage, the other a reduced voltage. If both show battery
voltage, the problem could be in the computer (not providing a ground for
the second field circuit). If one has battery voltage and the other shows
a much reduced voltage, the computer probably is trying to &quot;full field&quot; the
alternator and therefore the alternator is probably the problem. Check
output voltage. If output voltage is extremely high (20 volts or more)
check the circuit from the output terminal to the battery for an open. If
the voltage is battery volts but not a charging voltage and the fields seem
correct, suspect the alternator.
--------------------------------------------
58. Hatchback water leaks

From: (e-mail address removed).com (25312-lazaro)

Water enters the trunk by running down the side of the hatch opening and
when it reaches the tail lights, it flows into them. From there, it pours
into the trunk through the holes that the tail light bulbs fit through.

From inside the trunk, remove the tail light bulb cover panel. Now
unfasten a few of the tail light bulbs and let them hang into the trunk.
With a long 1/4 inch drill bit (or similar size), drill a few holes in the
bottom of the tail light lens by sticking the bit through the holes the the
bulbs occupied. This allows the water that enters the tail lights to drain
out these holes and onto the ground instead of accumulating in the tail
lights and pouring into the trunk through the bulb holes. I drilled about
3 or four 1/4 inch holes per each bulb location. Did the trick. The trunk
has been bone dry ever since.I replaced the water-damaged carpet backing
with 1/2 inch household carpet backing that I got at a home improvement
store and cut to size. It improves the sound deadening, too. The
cardboard floor (spare tire cover) was water damaged too, so I got a new
one for ~$25 at the dealer. Make sure you air dry the trunk real well. I
had so much water that I had to pull the drain plug at the bottom of the
spare tire well to let it out.

I know of Ford Probes suffering this same problem (with similar
solution) due to the same hatchback &amp; tail light configuration.
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59. Car / minivan will not start, CLICK!s instead

David J. Allen quoted (e-mail address removed).mil as saying that, when his
89 Caravan sometimes made a loud CLICK instead of starting, he saw that the
starter solenoid contacts were eroded down the thickness of a penny.
Vandamme soldered a real copper penny, filed to the shape of the missing
electrode, into the space.

David J. Allen wrote: [On my 88 Caravan,] I tore the starter down and found
that the contacts had worn down to the point of only providing intermittant
contact when engaged. A friend of mine brought me a couple of strips of
1/8&quot; copper from work which I cut and formed into new contacts. They fit
right in and I haven't had a problem yet (1 1/2 years).
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60. Spongy / mushy brakes

Mushy / spongy brakes, especially after brake servicing: Have the brake
fluid bled *properly* (most mechanics will not do it the correct way). Jim
Murphy says that Chrysler has a new procedure involving pumping the brakes
to pressurize the system, then opening the bleed screw to allow the fluid
and air to rush out. The details:

1: Pump pedal three or four times and hold it down before bleeder
screw is opened
2: Push pedal toward floor and hold it while bleeder screw is opened
3: Release the pedal after the bleeder screw is closed
4: Repeat steps 1 through 3, four or five times, at each bleeder screw to
pass a sufficient amount of fluid to expel all the trapped air from
anywhere in the system. CAUTION: Just cracking the bleeder screw often
restricts fluid flow, and a slow weak fluid discharge will NOT get all the
air out. Open the screw at least one full turn.

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61. Squeal when a/c is on; adjusting belts

You can replace the idler pulley and belt to stop the squeal on the
minivans and some other vehicles. It may go away given a month. On some
vehicles you may need to adjust belt tension, but do not overtighten, or
you will need many expensive new parts!

NOTE Adjusting Caravan belts: A tensioner is below the alternator. Put a
15mm wrench on it and pull down (like you were tightening that bolt) and
the tensioner will rotate and take the tension off of the belt. Much
easier from underneath by removing the splash sheild. That is held by 4
10mm screws. BUT BE CAREFUL!!! I own 2 CC products; an '88 Caravan 2.5L and
an '89 Sundance 2.5L. AC clutch went on both at about 80,000 mi, again on
both about 30,000 mi later, again, etc., etc. Found out that if the belts
are not tightened within specs., it wipes out the bearings SOON!!! Only use
a Burroughs belt tension gauge - about $50.00. NO MORE PROBLEMS!! Hope
this helps. By the way, the Sundance has over 200,000 mi, and the Caravan
has 135,000 - no other serious problems, other than CV boot replacements.
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63. Weatherstrip repair

Marvin Stockman &lt;(e-mail address removed).navy.mil&gt; reports: I usually
purchase a caulking gun sized tube of black GE Silicon II sealant. Clean
off the damaged weatherstripping with alcohol or other suitable cleaner.
Apply an appropriate amount of sealer to damaged area. Cover area with
plastic kitchen wrap and with sealer covered form to an appropriate shape.
Close door. Car can be used and door can be opened and closed, but don't
remove plastic for 3 or 4 days. Don't use Saran wrap as most silicone
sealers need moisture to set and Saran is too good a vapor barrior. I
have done this for many years on many cars.
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64. Preventing ABS problems

Marv Miller cautions: Due to the fact that the ABS-10 uses an accumulator,
which acts as a &quot;pressure reservoir&quot;, the fluid level in the master
cylinder varies. When the pump pressurizes the accumulator, the fluid
level in the master cylinder drops by about 1/2 inch - the fluid went into
the accumulator. This is why you are supposed to completely depressurize
the system by fifty or more depressions of the pedal before checking the
fluid. The accumulator will empty back into the master cylinder
reservoir. If you don't depressurize the system to check the level, when
the accumulator pressure drops (in deteriorating systems this sometimes
happens overnight), brake fluid will overflow out of the master cylinder
caps.
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66. Jeep 4.0 noise

&gt;We recently bought a 95 Cherokee with the 4.0l 6cyl engine. After a
&gt;couple thousand miles, it started making a knocking sound at idle. It
&gt;sounds to me like one valve is out of adjustment.

Don Ferrario responded: This is typical of the 4.0L engine. Other than the
sound, which is admittedly alarming, it should not cause any other problem.
(note: In 1996, the 4.0 was redesigned to lower noise.)
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67. LH clunk

Michael Kell and others wrote about a clunking noise in LH models when
people coast and then accelerate again. Retorquing the front axle nuts to
120 lb ft may fix it - but it may not (see below). David Ta's dealer
pointed him to TSB 02-04-95, which says to replace the outer C/V joints.
Mr. Ta was kind enough to inform the FAQ maintainer in e-mail.
--------------------------------------------
68. Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze wipers acting funny

This may simply be the speed-sensitive wiper speed feature at work.

However, some, including Pierce Leonberger, found that the problem was
only solved when the dealer recalibrated the wiper module, which
controls the wiper timing. There may be a TSB out on this problem.

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69. Misc 4-speed automatic transmission problems

See <a href="http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html" target="_blank">http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html</a> for a full and up to date list.

***NEVER USE DEXRON IN A CHRYSLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC
***FLUSH THE SYSTEM AND RETRAIN THE COMPUTER IF DEXRON IS IN IT

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70. Shimmy under acceleration - 35-45 mph

(e-mail address removed).net responds to a complaint of shimmy in a 96,000
mile 1986 Dodge Aries from 35-45 mph under accleration. He said that the
inner CV joint housing on the passenger side axle is worn. Probably easiest
repair is to replace passenger side axle with rebuilt unit. There is a
possiblity of it being in the drivers axle. But it is more common in the
passenger axle based on your complaint.

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72. Gas gauge acting funny

(e-mail address removed): on a 1987 Caravan, the gas gauge kept creeping up
to full. The problem was a small circuit board, part 4375318. Dean Seaman
added the board is no longer used, but did dampen pointer movement. Some
gauges used a thick liquid instead.
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--------------------------------------------
74. Backfiring

Ty Young reports that his 143,000 mile 1985 Caravan's backfiring (on sudden
decelaration) was cured by using 89 octane gas instead of 87. (But was the
timing OK?)
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75. 3.0 liter PREVENTION

Drop the oil pan after 100,000 miles and clean the screen on the oil
pick-up. Mine was choked down to an opening about the size of a dime. The
oil seems to get charred in the head closest to the firewall and works its
way down.
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78. CV boot replacement

From: (e-mail address removed) (Old Mcgroin) replaced the CV boots on his
88 Daytona: &quot;There is one bolt on each wheel you have to take off first.
Remove each hub then the axles will just slide out of the tranny (along
with the fliud so catch it in a pail) On each CV joint there is one snap
ring holding everything together. Once inside the CV there are a few ball
bearings and a cage, it all fits together very straightforward. This was
my first time with no problems.&quot;
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81. Rear defroster activated by brake lights

Rivas Patrick writes that his 88 Shadow's rear defroster went on when he
hit the brakes. The problem was that the wires
going to the hatch from the roof had broken their insulation
and were touching each other when the hatch was closed.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
84. Odd behavior when starting (e.g. wiper runs)

With regard to funny electrical things (in this case, the rear window
washer or rear wiper coming on) when starting a vehicle, or the vehicle
acting like it has a low battery, Ken Bessler &lt;(e-mail address removed)&gt;
advises:

The problem is one of two things: your ignition timing (no - really!) is
just a hair too far advanced or you battery is getting old. When ignition
timing is too far advanced, the engine tries to fire before the piston gets
all the way up. The piston tries to go the wrong way, fighting the starter
and causing a big voltage drop across the whole van. This messes up the
logic circuits. Listen to the way your engine cranks over before it fires.
This sound should be fairly even and smooth. If not, back your timing up a
bit. If your engine turns over smoothly, then your battery is suspect.
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
86. Fluid leaks (inside the car)

Bob Meyer &lt;robert_(e-mail address removed)&gt; writes: If the fluid is
antifreeze (green, sweet smell, hot), you may have a heater core leak (or
loose hose connections). If the fluid is water, most likely the AC
condensation tube is blocked (note: this refers to a
Sundance/Shadow/Duster). When the AC runs on a humid day, a puddle of water
should form underneath this drain if it is working correctly. Look on the
firewall behind and below the power steering pump - you should find a
rubber tube. Make sure that nothing is blocking the tip. If this doesn't
help, you may have a bunch of leaves and junk inside blocking it. Some
times you can back flush it with a garden hose or fish out the leaves with
a wire. If the condensation drain is open and working, and you still have
water on the floor, make sure the cowl drains are clear. The last thing
would be to check the gasket that seals the blower fan (under and behind
the glove box). If this is leaking, loosen the accessable lower screws,
force a bit of strip caulk into the seal gap, and retighten.
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