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#1: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 19:25:24 by TomKan

Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.

Any vibes on this??

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#2: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 19:42:27 by General Schvantzkoph

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:25:24 -0800, tomkanpa wrote:

> Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
> dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
> Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
> correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
> Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
>
> Any vibes on this??


It's a scam. Air is 78% nitrogen and it's free.

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#3: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 19:57:12 by Bob Shuman

This is the new thing at many tire places that are looking to distinguish
themselves from other tire places and win your business. I believe Costco,
for instance, uses Nitrogen.

If I remember my physical science lessons from HS many yeas ago, ordinary
air is already comprised of about 78% Nitrogen. As such, even if you do not
fill with pure Nitrogen, you are still filling with 78% Nitrogen!

I believe that the Nitrogen molecules are larger, so are less likely to leak
through valve stems, rims, etc. This may also make it more immune to
changes in temperature as well.

Bob

&quot;tomkanpa&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tomkanpa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tomkanpa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
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&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;

Report this message

#4: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 21:26:14 by RapidRonnie

It's worth about 20 cents a tire.

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#5: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 22:38:02 by Matt Whiting

tomkanpa wrote:

&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;

Yes, you have been lied to. All gases very in pressure with temperature.

Matt

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#6: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 23:10:30 by joe

Absolutely untrue.

Nitrogen behaves exactly like air in terms of pressure/temperature
expansion. Both are ideal gases and behave according to the ideal gas law at
the conditions inside a tire. You probably learned that in high school, and
forgot. Of course, the guy who lied to you probably did too. I'm surprised
they'd be so quick to think up a lie (like the grinch)

On the seal, that's pretty stupid. You probably knew better. I tell you what
seals better than air - water. Put water in your tires and you'll probably
never have a flat. Just kidding, don't do that, except on the tractor.

The advantage of using nitrogen is that it's not oxygen. Oxygen can oxidize
your aluminum wheel, and to some degree the rubber in your tire. It's a slow
process usually, although sometimes aluminum can get screwed up pretty badly
out in the weather. Inside your tire, though, the advantages would be
marginal. To be honest, I have never seen any evidence of oxidation inside a
tire. I don't think it's much of a problem.

&quot;tomkanpa&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tomkanpa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tomkanpa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
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&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;

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#7: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 23:11:46 by joe

Your beliefs let you down, Bob. Nitrogen is smaller than oxygen.

&quot;Bob Shuman&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:reshuman&#64;removethis.lucent.com" target="_blank">reshuman&#64;removethis.lucent.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:dqrbq8$<a href="mailto:jf6&#64;netnews.net.lucent.com..." target="_blank">jf6&#64;netnews.net.lucent.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; I believe that the Nitrogen molecules are larger, so are less likely to
&gt; leak
&gt; through valve stems, rims, etc. This may also make it more immune to
&gt; changes in temperature as well.
&gt;
&gt; Bob
&gt;
&gt; &quot;tomkanpa&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tomkanpa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tomkanpa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:1137781523.928539.319370&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1137781523.928539.319370&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt;&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt;&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt;&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt;&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt;

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#8: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-20 23:41:47 by bptn

tomkanpa wrote:

&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;

Just going from what I read, it's the moisture in ambient air that
amplifies the pressure variations due to temperature changes. Processed
nitrogen is inherently dry. If what I have read is true, you can get
the same benefit by putting a good dryer system on an air compressor to
cut down on moisture content and using dry air instead of normal (moist)
air or nitrogen. Someone else mentioned that oxygen in air degrades the
rubber and metals over time. Also moisture would do that, so there
would be benefits in using dry air from that standpiont too.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

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#9: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 00:41:24 by Steve

tomkanpa wrote:

&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature

That would violate the laws of physics. The correct statement is that
nitrogen does not vary AS MUCH with temperature as air does.

&gt; resulting in the
&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;

Yes. First, air is mostly nitrogen so the sealing against aluminum rims
claim is bogus. Second, unless you're driving a race car where 1/2 psi
will make a noticeable change in the handling of the car, its just dumb
to spend $5 on air for your tires.

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#10: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 03:12:07 by MoPar Man

tomkanpa wrote:

&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen.

What short memory you guys have:

--------------

Subject: Nitrogen tire filling arrives in Calgary (CostCo)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:49:25 -0400
From: MoPar Man &lt;<a href="mailto:MoPar&#64;Man.com" target="_blank">MoPar&#64;Man.com</a>&gt;
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler

Experts say that nitrogen molecules are four times larger than oxygen.
Retailers say tires with nitrogen should stay inflated four times
longer, maintain a consistent tire pressure and increase its life
span.

Nitrogen tire filling is already widely used in Europe. Costco
doesn't charge any extra for the gas, which is included in the price
of the tire and installation.

Nitrogen -- a dry, inert gas used by racing professionals and the U.S.
military to inflate racecar tires and military vehicles, respectively
-- leaks through a tire's rubber walls three times more slowly than
oxygen. As a result, tires filled with high-quality nitrogen delivered
by IR's system stay inflated longer, which allows them to grip the
road better and provide greater control in all weather conditions.

&quot;It's an obvious safety issue,&quot; said Ray Evernham, a three-time NASCAR
Nextel Cup champion crew chief, team owner of Evernham Motorsports and
an IR spokesperson. &quot;Simply put, tires filled with nitrogen provide
more stable pressure. That's why IR's Nitrogen Tire Filling System
represents the best solution for drivers and tire-repair centers.&quot;

(and part of the same thread)

Bill Putney wrote:

&gt; For the consumer it's both mechansisms (low moisture/temperature
&gt; stability *and* bleedout over a long period of time) that come
&gt; into play.

I wonder if nitrogen-filled tires play any role in preventing leaks on
aluminum rims or reducing rust and pit formation on aluminum rims.

&gt; I guess the longer you leave normal air in a tire, the higher
&gt; the concentration of nitrogen, since the smaller molecules
&gt; will bleed out and leave only nitrogen. 8^)

hmmm. I wonder what the &quot;nitrogen experts&quot; would say about that?

------------------------

Also see this:

---------------------------

Subject: Re: Tires get an expiration date (was: Michelin tires
and their problems)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:01:49 -0400
From: MoPar Man &lt;<a href="mailto:MoPar&#64;Man.com" target="_blank">MoPar&#64;Man.com</a>&gt;
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler

MoPar Man wrote:

&gt; ... He says Ford's research into the Firestone problem showed
&gt; that as tires age, the chemistry of the rubber changes as oxygen
&gt; migrates through the carcass of the tire. This leads to a
&gt; weakening of the internal structure that can result in
&gt; tire failures.

An argument that seasonal tires (still mounted to wheels) should be
stored with the air taken out of them (ie deflated) ?

Also an argument that tires be filled with nitrogen? Perhaps some
other gas?

-----------------------------

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#11: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 05:50:02 by Gideon

If you are driving a NASCAR vehicle in competition at 200 mph,
I'd strongly suggest nitrogen in your tires. Otherwise, you will
be quite satisfied by checking and adjusting your tire pressure
on a weekly basis.

You shouldn't be concerned about the minor fluctuations in air
pressure caused by the moisture in your tires. It just isn't that
important for the average driver. And the oxygen attacking the
outside of your tires and alloy wheels is a much bigger concern
that the oxygen attacking the inside. Remember: There is a finite
amount of oxygen inside your tires, whereas the outsides of the
tires and wheels have a nearly infinite supply of oxygen (and salt
and water).

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#12: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 12:59:06 by sharkman

hmmmm.. so if I fill my tires with helium, I guess it would make my car
lighter so that there would be less wear on the tire treads.. What a
fantastic idea.. thanks
sharkman

tomkanpa wrote:
&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt; Any vibes on this??

Report this message

#13: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 13:15:16 by Nate Nagel

True, but it's also monatomic and really, really small, so you may
experience some leakage...

I think some really hard core bike racers were trying this maybe 10
years ago. Since I'm not really part of that scene I don't know if it
ever caught on or was just something a couple guys tried to get an edge.

nate

<a href="mailto:Sharkman&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Sharkman&#64;comcast.net</a> wrote:
&gt; hmmmm.. so if I fill my tires with helium, I guess it would make my car
&gt; lighter so that there would be less wear on the tire treads.. What a
&gt; fantastic idea.. thanks
&gt; sharkman
&gt;
&gt; tomkanpa wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt;&gt;dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt;&gt;Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt;&gt;correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt;&gt;Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Any vibes on this??
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


--
replace &quot;fly&quot; with &quot;com&quot; to reply.
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel" target="_blank">http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel</a>

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#14: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 15:23:46 by Bret

The helium molecule is small and very flexible,. Unless your tire/rim are
VERY securely sealed and the tire itself is tight in the extreme, helium
would migrate right through the tire and leak into the atmosphere far
quicker than just straight air.


&quot;<a href="mailto:Sharkman&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">Sharkman&#64;comcast.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:sharkman&#64;comcast.net" target="_blank">sharkman&#64;comcast.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:p4udnQbY18ZsvE_eRVn-gw&#64;comcast.com..." target="_blank">p4udnQbY18ZsvE_eRVn-gw&#64;comcast.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; hmmmm.. so if I fill my tires with helium, I guess it would make my car
&gt; lighter so that there would be less wear on the tire treads.. What a
&gt; fantastic idea.. thanks
&gt; sharkman
&gt;
&gt; tomkanpa wrote:
&gt;&gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt;&gt; dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt;&gt; Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt;&gt; correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt;&gt; Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; Any vibes on this??
&gt;
&gt;

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#15: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 16:22:48 by TomKan

Unless your tire/rim are VERY securely sealed and the tire itself is
tight in the extreme, helium would migrate right through the tire and
leak into the atmosphere

____Reply Separator_____

Causing everyone in the area to talk like Alvin, Theodore and Simon.

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#16: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 16:44:49 by Dori A Schmetterling

Yes. PV = nRT.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

&quot;Matt Whiting&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:whiting&#64;epix.net" target="_blank">whiting&#64;epix.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:_KcAf.5395$<a href="mailto:lb.464028&#64;news1.epix.net..." target="_blank">lb.464028&#64;news1.epix.net...</a>
[...]
&gt;
&gt; Yes, you have been lied to. All gases very in pressure with temperature.
&gt;
&gt; Matt

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#17: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-21 17:28:53 by bptn

MoPar Man wrote:

&gt; Experts say that nitrogen molecules are four times larger than oxygen.
&gt; Retailers say tires with nitrogen should stay inflated four times
&gt; longer, maintain a consistent tire pressure and increase its life
&gt; span.

Well then - guess what that means. It means that if you fill a tire
with air, that in a few months, the smaller molecules will have
selectively been filtered out, and the concentration of nitrogen will
greatly increase through &quot;natural slection&quot;. Adding some makeup air
over that first few months to make up for the exiting of smaller
molecules will be adding a smaller percentage of overall smaller
molecules, so you will be asymptotically approach 100% nitrogen over the
course of, what, 6 months to a year.

I've got three year old tires on my car - originally filled with air.
They should be about 95+% nitorgen-filled now.

I still think the cause of the instaneous temperature/pressure effects
are the moisture in typical compressed ambient air vs. dry air or dry
(commercial) nitrgogen.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

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#18: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 01:57:00 by Ted Mittelstaedt

&quot;MoPar Man&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:MoPar&#64;Man.com" target="_blank">MoPar&#64;Man.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:43D19877.E42DEE39&#64;Man.com..." target="_blank">43D19877.E42DEE39&#64;Man.com...</a>
&gt; tomkanpa wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen.
&gt;
&gt; What short memory you guys have:
&gt;
&gt; --------------
&gt;
&gt; Subject: Nitrogen tire filling arrives in Calgary (CostCo)
&gt; Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 09:49:25 -0400
&gt; From: MoPar Man &lt;<a href="mailto:MoPar&#64;Man.com" target="_blank">MoPar&#64;Man.com</a>&gt;
&gt; Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler
&gt;
&gt; Experts say that nitrogen molecules are four times larger than oxygen.
&gt; Retailers say tires with nitrogen should stay inflated four times
&gt; longer, maintain a consistent tire pressure and increase its life
&gt; span.
&gt;

This is a big bunch of horseshit. Doesen't anyone know math anymore?

Let's see, even assuming that a molecule 4 times larger leaks through
rubber 4 times slower (which is preposterous malarky) since air is 78%
nitrogen, only the 22% oxygen component in air would be leaking out
at 4 times faster.

If you inflate your tire to max inflation pressure - which for most tires
is 35psi - then even if all the oxygen leaked out the pressure drop on
the tire is only going to be 7psi, which will drop the pressure to 28psi
which is still well within the manufacturers recommendations for most
passenger vehicles.

In my vehicles I see about a 2 psi loss every 6 months - do these nitrogen
bozos think I'm going to stop checking tire air pressure except at 2 year
intervals?!?!

This rubbish was debunked back then in this group as well as the
oxygen migrating through the carcass bullcrap..

Ted

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#19: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 04:35:09 by Whoever

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Bill Putney wrote:

&gt; MoPar Man wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Experts say that nitrogen molecules are four times larger than oxygen.
&gt;&gt; Retailers say tires with nitrogen should stay inflated four times
&gt;&gt; longer, maintain a consistent tire pressure and increase its life
&gt;&gt; span.

This is almost as good as the poor sucker who phoned up Click and Clack
to ask if the air in his tires should be changed. Apparently, someone had
told him that the air gets worn out and goes hard over time -- so it
needed periodic replacement!

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#20: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 05:47:18 by wrench

I'd go with standard air so eventually the heavier molecules would be expelled
thru the tire body simply by centrifugal force.

;-)

&gt; hmmmm.. so if I fill my tires with helium, I guess it would make my car
&gt; lighter so that there would be less wear on the tire treads.. What a fantastic
&gt; idea.. thanks

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#21: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 06:22:22 by Islander

On 20 Jan 2006 10:25:24 -0800, &quot;tomkanpa&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tomkanpa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tomkanpa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:

&gt;Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt;dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt;Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt;correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt;Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt;Any vibes on this??

This is like, when I was still in highschool back in he early 60s..
(dating myself) Night shift at the gas station NO boss. We would
pick on certain unknowing customers if we were asked to check the
tires.. We would get oiut the guage,, and after a short pressure
check..

Quote. &quot;Ohh Miss Bridgman - You need to have the air changed in your
tires, The air in them smells terrible&quot; and we would have them smell
the air from the tire. We made 50 cents a tire.. Back then 50 cents
for a gallon of gas or 50cents for a pack of smokes. Sometimes we
could get 3 or 4 customers for this a night.

Ohh the games we played in the old days. History repeats itself.

cheers
Marv

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#22: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 13:49:42 by sharkman

you mean it DOESN'T?
I change my tire air once a month....

Whoever wrote:
&gt; On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Bill Putney wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; MoPar Man wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Experts say that nitrogen molecules are four times larger than
&gt;&gt;&gt; oxygen. Retailers say tires with nitrogen should stay inflated
&gt;&gt;&gt; four times longer, maintain a consistent tire pressure and
&gt;&gt;&gt; increase its life span.
&gt;
&gt; This is almost as good as the poor sucker who phoned up Click and
&gt; Clack to ask if the air in his tires should be changed. Apparently,
&gt; someone had told him that the air gets worn out and goes hard over
&gt; time -- so it needed periodic replacement!

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#23: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 15:19:54 by TomKan

&gt; Quote. &quot;Ohh Miss Bridgman - You need to have the air changed in your
&gt; tires, The air in them smells terrible&quot; and we would have them smell
&gt; the air from the tire. We made 50 cents a tire.. Back then 50 cents
&gt; for a gallon of gas or 50cents for a pack of smokes. Sometimes we
&gt; could get 3 or 4 customers for this a night.
&gt;
&gt; Ohh the games we played in the old days. History repeats itself.
&gt;
&gt; cheers
&gt; Marv

____Reply Separator_____

Didn't you ever &quot;Short stick&quot; them when checking the oil? You'd slip
the dip stick between your index and second finger, insert it into the
tube until it contacted your fingers. You'd then show them the stick
that &quot;indicated&quot; the crankcase was a quart low. After they told you
that &quot;You better add one,&quot; you put the metal pout spout into an empty
can, put it into the add oil hole, wait about a half a minute, remove
it, and charge them for a quart of oil.

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#24: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 18:34:57 by bptn

Islander wrote:

&gt; Quote. &quot;Ohh Miss Bridgman - You need to have the air changed in your
&gt; tires, The air in them smells terrible&quot; and we would have them smell
&gt; the air from the tire. We made 50 cents a tire.. Back then 50 cents
&gt; for a gallon of gas or 50cents for a pack of smokes. Sometimes we
&gt; could get 3 or 4 customers for this a night.

'til one night some woman's husband came and beat the crap out of you
and got the $2.00 back.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

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#25: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 19:38:30 by Dori A Schmetterling

Maybe that's why we have self-service in much of western Europe.

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

&quot;tomkanpa&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:tomkanpa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tomkanpa&#64;aol.com</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1137939593.975495.197280&#64;g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1137939593.975495.197280&#64;g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
[...]
&gt; Didn't you ever &quot;Short stick&quot; them when checking the oil?
[...]

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#26: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 23:21:30 by dastern

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006, tomkanpa wrote:

&gt;&gt; &quot;Ohh Miss Bridgman - You need to have the air changed in your tires,
&gt;&gt; The air in them smells terrible&quot; and we would have them smell the air
&gt;&gt; from the tire. We made 50 cents a tire.. Back then 50 cents for a
&gt;&gt; gallon of gas or 50cents for a pack of smokes. Sometimes we could get 3
&gt;&gt; or 4 customers for this a night.

&gt; Didn't you ever &quot;Short stick&quot; them when checking the oil?

....drop an antacid tablet into one of the battery cells? ...cut a fan belt
almost all the way through or poke a hole in a radiator hose while
&quot;checking the oil&quot;?

And people wonder why full-serve no longer exists (only self-serve and
we-serve).

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#27: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-22 23:22:50 by dastern

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Steve wrote:

&gt; First, air is mostly nitrogen so the sealing against aluminum rims claim
&gt; is bogus. Second, unless you're driving a race car where 1/2 psi will
&gt; make a noticeable change in the handling of the car, its just dumb to
&gt; spend $5 on air for your tires.

I'm in favour of an idiocy tax.

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#28: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-23 18:19:02 by Alex Rodriguez

In article &lt;<a href="mailto:1137781523.928539.319370&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com" target="_blank">1137781523.928539.319370&#64;g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com</a>&gt;,
<a href="mailto:tomkanpa&#64;aol.com" target="_blank">tomkanpa&#64;aol.com</a> says...
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Been hearing ads for filling tires up with Nitrogen. So I called the
&gt;dealer in one of the ads and asked the theory behind this.
&gt;Nitrogen gas pressure doesn't vary with temperature resulting in the
&gt;correct pressure holding causing better tire wear and better mpg.
&gt;Also, the Nitrogen gas is a better seal against the aluminum rims.
&gt;
&gt;Any vibes on this??

Waste of money. It is pretty simple to check your tires for proper pressure.
It also means you will actually look at your tires and spot problems that could
get worse, like uneven wear.
--------------
Alex

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#29: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-01-25 03:43:04 by MikeSp

when they put in air, it is 78% nitrogen already


&quot;RapidRonnie&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:rapidronnie&#64;cbgb.net" target="_blank">rapidronnie&#64;cbgb.net</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:1137788774.381930.262970&#64;g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com..." target="_blank">1137788774.381930.262970&#64;g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...</a>
&gt;
&gt; It's worth about 20 cents a tire.
&gt;

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#30: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-07-23 17:10:33 by Tom Weller

Joe wrote:

&gt; Absolutely untrue.
&gt;
&gt; Nitrogen behaves exactly like air in terms of pressure/temperature
&gt; expansion. Both are ideal gases and behave according to the ideal gas law at
&gt; the conditions inside a tire.

However the volume inside a tire can and does expand as pressure increases, so
this needs to be accounted for in a strict interpretation of the Law relative to
tires.

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#31: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-07-23 17:11:42 by Tom Weller

&quot;Daniel J. Stern&quot; wrote:

&gt; On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Steve wrote:
&gt;
&gt; &gt; First, air is mostly nitrogen so the sealing against aluminum rims claim
&gt; &gt; is bogus. Second, unless you're driving a race car where 1/2 psi will
&gt; &gt; make a noticeable change in the handling of the car, its just dumb to
&gt; &gt; spend $5 on air for your tires.
&gt;
&gt; I'm in favour of an idiocy tax.

That's why Government lotteries exist.

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#32: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-07-23 17:38:59 by bptn

Tom Weller wrote:
&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;Absolutely untrue.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;Nitrogen behaves exactly like air in terms of pressure/temperature
&gt;&gt;expansion. Both are ideal gases and behave according to the ideal gas law at
&gt;&gt;the conditions inside a tire.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; However the volume inside a tire can and does expand as pressure increases, so
&gt; this needs to be accounted for in a strict interpretation of the Law relative to
&gt; tires.

No - volume goes *down* as pressure increses. (I know - you meant to
say as *temperature* increases, and more correctly, with an essentially
constrained volume, as in a tire, pressure increases as temperature
increase.)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

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#33: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-07-23 17:39:51 by bptn

om Weller wrote:

&gt; &quot;Daniel J. Stern&quot; wrote:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;On Fri, 20 Jan 2006, Steve wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;First, air is mostly nitrogen so the sealing against aluminum rims claim
&gt;&gt;&gt;is bogus. Second, unless you're driving a race car where 1/2 psi will
&gt;&gt;&gt;make a noticeable change in the handling of the car, its just dumb to
&gt;&gt;&gt;spend $5 on air for your tires.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;I'm in favour of an idiocy tax.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; That's why Government lotteries exist.

Ha! Good one!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

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#34: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-07-23 18:06:36 by Matt Whiting

Bill Putney wrote:
&gt; Tom Weller wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Absolutely untrue.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Nitrogen behaves exactly like air in terms of pressure/temperature
&gt;&gt;&gt; expansion. Both are ideal gases and behave according to the ideal gas
&gt;&gt;&gt; law at
&gt;&gt;&gt; the conditions inside a tire.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; However the volume inside a tire can and does expand as pressure
&gt;&gt; increases, so
&gt;&gt; this needs to be accounted for in a strict interpretation of the Law
&gt;&gt; relative to
&gt;&gt; tires.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; No - volume goes *down* as pressure increses. (I know - you meant to
&gt; say as *temperature* increases, and more correctly, with an essentially
&gt; constrained volume, as in a tire, pressure increases as temperature
&gt; increase.)

He means the volume of the tire, not the volume of an ideal gas. As you
increase the pressure inside a tire, it will expand, albeit only
slightly, and its inside volume will increase.

Matt

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#35: Re: Nitrogen - $5 a tire

Posted on 2006-07-23 19:07:20 by bptn

Matt Whiting wrote:
&gt; Bill Putney wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Tom Weller wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; Joe wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Absolutely untrue.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Nitrogen behaves exactly like air in terms of pressure/temperature
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; expansion. Both are ideal gases and behave according to the ideal
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; gas law at
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the conditions inside a tire.
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; However the volume inside a tire can and does expand as pressure
&gt;&gt;&gt; increases, so
&gt;&gt;&gt; this needs to be accounted for in a strict interpretation of the Law
&gt;&gt;&gt; relative to
&gt;&gt;&gt; tires.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; No - volume goes *down* as pressure increses. (I know - you meant to
&gt;&gt; say as *temperature* increases, and more correctly, with an
&gt;&gt; essentially constrained volume, as in a tire, pressure increases as
&gt;&gt; temperature increase.)
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; He means the volume of the tire, not the volume of an ideal gas. As you
&gt; increase the pressure inside a tire, it will expand, albeit only
&gt; slightly, and its inside volume will increase.
&gt;
&gt; Matt

Yeah - I realized that as a possibility after I posted. But this thread
is old and lost on my reader, so wasn't sure of the context of the point
being made.

OK - I just went back to the thread on Google. He was just making a
technical point that, although true, has no practical relationship to
the issue. There are always going to be 2nd, 3rd, etc. order effects
that can be ignored for the practical discussion - this is one of those.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

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