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#1: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-20 18:34:20 by Andreas Davour

In light of some discussions here on the merits of GTR, and since I've
installed the SportsCar Challenge mod to F1C, I've realized there are
some things I ought to know.

In SCC there are quite a few classes of cars you can race, and in GTR
there are at least that class (maybe more, I've just played the demo).

But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
that letter soup?

Anyone care to give me some enlightening links and brief me on what all
those race classes are all about?

I guess I should say that where I come from. I live in F1 land, and know
about F1 and F2 racing from the sixties until now. Apart from that I'm
embarrasingly uneducated... ;)

I mean, there are quite a lot of racing sims out there that I can't
appreciate enough since I don't know what they are trying to
simulate. Time for some education I think.

/andreas

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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#2: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-20 23:54:18 by Jeff Reid

> But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
> that letter soup?

FIA and SCCA each have their own set of classes.

FIA - F1 (traction control allowed except for initial start.
no underbody tunneling, a flat skidboard is used instead).
F2
F3
GT1 (traction control allowed)
GT2 (traction control not allowed)
GT3 (traction control not allowed)
LM (Lemans - usually closed cockpit)
LMP (Lemans Prototype, open cockpit)

I think GT1, GT2, and GT3 have replaced the older GT, GTR, GTS names.

USA Champ Cars (no traction control, underbody tunneling instead of skidboard
Almost all road coarse now, two medium ovals, no high speed ovals).
IRL (no traction control - underbody tunneling).
Almost all ovals, some high speed.
NASCAR - (no traction control, body shells have to match a form
downforce - air dams up front, spoiler in back, tilted body).
Almost all ovals. The two high speed ovals events use restrictor plates.
Toyota Atlantic - similar to the old Indy light cars. This series is
changing to Ford Duratech engines, so the Toyota name goes away. Under
body tunneling allowed.

SCCA - many classes, some are single car specific.

F3000 - multiple orginazations, multiple standards. FIA eliminated their
F3000, suggesting that teams run in F2 instead.

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#3: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 01:49:40 by DJRJR

GT= Grand Touring
S= sport

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#4: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 10:04:34 by hoover

On 20 Dec 2005 18:34:20 +0100, Andreas Davour wrote:
>
> In light of some discussions here on the merits of GTR, and since I've
> installed the SportsCar Challenge mod to F1C, I've realized there are
> some things I ought to know.
>
> In SCC there are quite a few classes of cars you can race, and in GTR
> there are at least that class (maybe more, I've just played the demo).
>
> But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
> that letter soup?
>

I remember asking my dad that when I was about six, and he said GT was
an abbreviation for "Grand Tourismo" or summin. Sorry about the rest ;)

cheers,

uwe
--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

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#5: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 11:51:44 by nothanks

GT -- Grand Touring
GTU -- GT Under - smaller sized engines
GTO -- GT Over -- larger than GT size engines
These classes have long changed... as others have stated.

I thought sim wise it was;

GTR -- Grand Touring "Racing" -- No?
GTL -- Grand Touring "Legends"

Curious to other replies.....
==--==



&quot;Uwe Schürkamp&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:hoover&#64;hoover.dyndns.org" target="_blank">hoover&#64;hoover.dyndns.org</a>&gt; wrote in message
news:<a href="mailto:slrndqi6l2.3kt.hoover&#64;hoover.dyndns.org..." target="_blank">slrndqi6l2.3kt.hoover&#64;hoover.dyndns.org...</a>
&gt; On 20 Dec 2005 18:34:20 +0100, Andreas Davour wrote:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In light of some discussions here on the merits of GTR, and since I've
&gt;&gt; installed the SportsCar Challenge mod to F1C, I've realized there are
&gt;&gt; some things I ought to know.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; In SCC there are quite a few classes of cars you can race, and in GTR
&gt;&gt; there are at least that class (maybe more, I've just played the demo).
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
&gt;&gt; that letter soup?
&gt;&gt;
&gt;
&gt; I remember asking my dad that when I was about six, and he said GT was
&gt; an abbreviation for &quot;Grand Tourismo&quot; or summin. Sorry about the rest ;)
&gt;
&gt; cheers,
&gt;
&gt; uwe
&gt; --
&gt; GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

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#6: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 13:20:09 by Andreas Davour

&quot;==--==&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:nothanks&#64;shaw.ca" target="_blank">nothanks&#64;shaw.ca</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; GT -- Grand Touring
&gt; GTU -- GT Under - smaller sized engines
&gt; GTO -- GT Over -- larger than GT size engines
&gt; These classes have long changed... as others have stated.

Yeah, there seems to be a meriad of classes and I have a hard time
understanding them all.

&gt; I thought sim wise it was;
&gt;
&gt; GTR -- Grand Touring &quot;Racing&quot; -- No?
&gt; GTL -- Grand Touring &quot;Legends&quot;

Interesting note, I hadn't thought there was a method to it. Maybe there
is.

/andreas

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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#7: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 13:21:23 by Andreas Davour

&quot;Jeff Reid&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; &gt; But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
&gt; &gt; that letter soup?
&gt;
&gt; FIA and SCCA each have their own set of classes.

Thanks for your summary Jeff!

/andreas

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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#8: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 15:24:27 by Jeff Reid

You can go to the source for FIA events:

<a href="http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/championships2005.html" target="_blank"> http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/championships2005.htm l</a>

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#9: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-21 18:48:56 by Andreas Davour

&quot;Jeff Reid&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; You can go to the source for FIA events:
&gt;
&gt; <a href="http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/championships2005.html" target="_blank"> http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/championships2005.htm l</a>

Hadn't thought about that. Thanks.

/andreas

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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#10: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-22 04:51:51 by Jeff Reid

&gt;&gt; You can go to the source for FIA events:
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/championships2005.html" target="_blank"> http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/championships2005.htm l</a>
&gt;
&gt; Hadn't thought about that. Thanks.

It's due to an instictive male response, reading the instructions
is only done as a last resort.

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#11: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-22 11:09:08 by Stephan Paskert

&quot;Jeff Reid&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:TX%pf.3321$<a href="mailto:nj1.2117&#64;fed1read07..." target="_blank">nj1.2117&#64;fed1read07...</a>
&gt;&gt; But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
&gt;&gt; that letter soup?
&gt;
&gt; FIA and SCCA each have their own set of classes.
&gt;
&gt; FIA - F1 (traction control allowed except for initial start.
&gt; no underbody tunneling, a flat skidboard is used instead).

Traction control is not totally forbidden at starts. Only below 80 (or 100)
kph!

[...]&gt; IRL (no traction control - underbody tunneling).
&gt; Almost all ovals, some high speed.

IRL DOES use traction control!

&gt; NASCAR - (no traction control, body shells have to match a form
&gt; downforce - air dams up front, spoiler in back, tilted
&gt; body).
&gt; Almost all ovals. The two high speed ovals events use restrictor
&gt; plates.
&gt; Toyota Atlantic - similar to the old Indy light cars. This series is
&gt; changing to Ford Duratech engines, so the Toyota name goes away.
&gt; Under
&gt; body tunneling allowed.
&gt;
&gt; SCCA - many classes, some are single car specific.
&gt;
&gt; F3000 - multiple orginazations, multiple standards. FIA eliminated their
&gt; F3000, suggesting that teams run in F2 instead.

Multiple organisations: yes, but the formula itself is from the FIA. The FIA
cancelled their own F3000 International Championship in favour of the new
GP2 series.

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#12: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-22 12:16:20 by Stephan Paskert

&quot;Andreas Davour&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ante&#64;update.uu.se" target="_blank">ante&#64;update.uu.se</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:<a href="mailto:cs9u0d33c6b.fsf&#64;Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE..." target="_blank">cs9u0d33c6b.fsf&#64;Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE...</a>
&gt;
&gt; In light of some discussions here on the merits of GTR, and since I've
&gt; installed the SportsCar Challenge mod to F1C, I've realized there are
&gt; some things I ought to know.

In sportscar racing you can basically distinguish between FIA and ACO (there
are some other like the japanese Super GTs, but I´ll put them aside).
The cars in SCC are from Le Mans, European Le Mans Series and the American
Le Mans Series if I remember correctly. That means the cars are mainly based
on the rule-set of the ACO, which is the automobile club that organizes the
24 hours of Le Mans. The European and American Le Mans Series both use the
ACO (Le Mans 24h) regulations with the American Le Mans Series´s rules
having a few variances given from IMSA.

The ACO-classes are (cars based on the first 3 are banned after 2005, maybe
IMSA will do something special again for 2006 and there will be a new
Japanese Le Mans Series, which will still allow LM900/675/LMGTP):
LM900 (open cockpit prototypes, 900 indicates min. weight, but weight is not
the only difference between the classes, for example Audi R8)
LM675 (open cockpit prototypes, for example Lola EX 257)
LMGTP (closed cockpit prototypes, for example Bentley Speed 8)
LMP1 (prototypes, not sure on this one, but I think both open and closed
cockpits are allowed, for example Audi R10)
LMP2 (prototypes, not sure on this one, but I think both open and closed
cockpits are allowed, for example Porsche RS Spyder)
LMGT1 (cars based on road going versions of which a specified number must
have been built, for example Chevrolet Corvette C6-R)
LMGT2 (cars based on road going versions of which a specified number must
have been built, for example Porsche 911 GT3 RSR)

Note1: LMP1 and LMP2 replace LM900/675/GTP.
Note2: In ALMS the LM900/675/GTP-cars are simply counted towards LMP1
despite not being true LMP1-cars.
Note3: For 2005 Le Mans and the 2005 ELMS the LM900/675/GTP-cars were
penalized with higher weight, less power, smaller fueler capacity and so on
while there were no penalties for those in ALMS. ACO did that to promote
their new LMP1/2 categories.

That are only the rough basics. To learn about the different
horsepower-figures, weights, driving aids and so on you should visit the
ACO´s website where the complete rules are offered for download in
pdf-format. You could also go to <a href="http://www.mulsannescorner.com/" target="_blank">http://www.mulsannescorner.com/</a> . Very
interesting site and when you scroll all the way down you can find at least
the prototype-rules of the ACO, too.

&gt; In SCC there are quite a few classes of cars you can race, and in GTR
&gt; there are at least that class (maybe more, I've just played the demo).

Cars in GTR are based on the FIA rules:
GT1 (cars based on road going versions of which a specified number must have
been built, for example Chevrolet Corvette C5-R)
GT2 (cars based on road going versions of which a specified number must have
been built, for example Porsche 911 GT3 RSR)
other: there are some other, smaller classes that I don´t know of exactly,
but all of those racecars must have some road going counterparts, too. Some
time ago in the
FIA GT Championship only GT1 and GT2 were allowed full time while the
smaller classed could only run one race of the championship and that was the
24 hours of Spa. Today those classes seem to be eligible in every race of
the championship.

GT1 and GT2 are similar to LMGT1 and LMGT2 with only small differences (i.
e. LMGT2 does allow traction control, GT2 does not).

Be careful about comparing GT1 cars of today with GT1s from before 1999,
because after the 1998 season the FIA cancelled the original GT1-class and
promoted former GT2 up to GT1. So in 1998 a Corvette C5-R would have been a
GT2.

&gt; But, what on earth do all those letters mean? What is GT, GTS, GTR and
&gt; that letter soup?

Those designations are outdated today. They were former used in Le Mans and
the ALMS. GTS became GT1 and GT became GT2.

&gt; Anyone care to give me some enlightening links and brief me on what all
&gt; those race classes are all about?

For complete always visit the official websites of FIA, ACO and ALMS.

&gt; I guess I should say that where I come from. I live in F1 land, and know
&gt; about F1 and F2 racing from the sixties until now. Apart from that I'm
&gt; embarrasingly uneducated... ;)
&gt;
&gt; I mean, there are quite a lot of racing sims out there that I can't
&gt; appreciate enough since I don't know what they are trying to
&gt; simulate. Time for some education I think.

FIA and ACO are trying to do a common ruleset since years, but don´t seem to
reach an agreement.

I hope I could help!

&gt; /andreas

Bye
Stephan

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#13: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-22 21:51:19 by Andreas Davour

&quot;Stephan Paskert&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stephan.paskert&#64;t-online.de" target="_blank">stephan.paskert&#64;t-online.de</a>&gt; writes:

&gt; &quot;Andreas Davour&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ante&#64;update.uu.se" target="_blank">ante&#64;update.uu.se</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
&gt; news:<a href="mailto:cs9u0d33c6b.fsf&#64;Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE..." target="_blank">cs9u0d33c6b.fsf&#64;Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE...</a>
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; In light of some discussions here on the merits of GTR, and since I've
&gt; &gt; installed the SportsCar Challenge mod to F1C, I've realized there are
&gt; &gt; some things I ought to know.
[snip]
&gt; &gt; I mean, there are quite a lot of racing sims out there that I can't
&gt; &gt; appreciate enough since I don't know what they are trying to
&gt; &gt; simulate. Time for some education I think.
&gt;
&gt; FIA and ACO are trying to do a common ruleset since years, but don´t seem to
&gt; reach an agreement.
&gt;
&gt; I hope I could help!

Oh, yes! Thanks a lot! Now I know much more, and know where to look for
answers. It's almost embarrasing that so many of you have told me to
check the FIA et.c. webpages. I should have known.

/andreas

--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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#14: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-22 22:00:55 by Plowboy

dont feel bad, I for the life of me couldnt thnk of the work FIA to save my
arse... searching google might have helped that, but then again, I think I
would have missed it &lt;VBG&gt;
Andreas Davour enlightened us with:
&gt; &quot;Stephan Paskert&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:stephan.paskert&#64;t-online.de" target="_blank">stephan.paskert&#64;t-online.de</a>&gt; writes:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; &quot;Andreas Davour&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ante&#64;update.uu.se" target="_blank">ante&#64;update.uu.se</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
&gt;&gt; news:<a href="mailto:cs9u0d33c6b.fsf&#64;Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE..." target="_blank">cs9u0d33c6b.fsf&#64;Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE...</a>
&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; In light of some discussions here on the merits of GTR, and since
&gt;&gt;&gt; I've installed the SportsCar Challenge mod to F1C, I've realized
&gt;&gt;&gt; there are some things I ought to know.
&gt; [snip]
&gt;&gt;&gt; I mean, there are quite a lot of racing sims out there that I can't
&gt;&gt;&gt; appreciate enough since I don't know what they are trying to
&gt;&gt;&gt; simulate. Time for some education I think.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; FIA and ACO are trying to do a common ruleset since years, but don´t
&gt;&gt; seem to reach an agreement.
&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; I hope I could help!
&gt;
&gt; Oh, yes! Thanks a lot! Now I know much more, and know where to look
&gt; for answers. It's almost embarrasing that so many of you have told me
&gt; to check the FIA et.c. webpages. I should have known.
&gt;
&gt; /andreas
&gt;
&gt; --
&gt; A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
&gt; Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
&gt; A: Top-posting.
&gt; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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#15: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-23 00:04:19 by Jeff Reid

&gt; Traction control is not totally forbidden at starts. Only below 80 (or 100) kph!

I just meant for the inital launch (0 mph / kph), as mentioned it's re-enabled
once the car reaches 100kph (and 80kph in some cases?).

&gt; [...]&gt; IRL (no traction control - underbody tunneling).
&gt;&gt; Almost all ovals, some high speed.
&gt; IRL DOES use traction control!

Thanks for the correction.


&gt;&gt; F3000 - multiple orginazations, multiple standards. FIA eliminated their
&gt;&gt; F3000, suggesting that teams run in F2 instead.

&gt; Multiple organisations: yes, but the formula itself is from the FIA. The FIA cancelled their own F3000 International
&gt; Championship in favour of the new GP2 series.

Japan has their own F3000 class. USA has a F3000 hill climb event. I'm not
sure how many other &quot;F3000&quot; classes there are. As previously posted, FIA
canceled their own F3000 class.

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#16: Re: GTR, GTS, GT - what does it all mean?

Posted on 2005-12-27 12:48:45 by Stephan Paskert

&quot;Jeff Reid&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com" target="_blank">jeffareid&#64;hotmail.com</a>&gt; schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dhGqf.3442$<a href="mailto:nj1.2960&#64;fed1read07..." target="_blank">nj1.2960&#64;fed1read07...</a>
&gt;&gt; Traction control is not totally forbidden at starts. Only below 80 (or
&gt;&gt; 100) kph!
&gt;
&gt; I just meant for the inital launch (0 mph / kph), as mentioned it's
&gt; re-enabled
&gt; once the car reaches 100kph (and 80kph in some cases?).

Yes, you understand that correctly. I am not sure if it´s 80 or 100 kph, I
tend to say 100 :-)

&gt;&gt; [...]&gt; IRL (no traction control - underbody tunneling).
&gt;&gt;&gt; Almost all ovals, some high speed.
&gt;&gt; IRL DOES use traction control!
&gt;
&gt; Thanks for the correction.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; F3000 - multiple orginazations, multiple standards. FIA eliminated their
&gt;&gt;&gt; F3000, suggesting that teams run in F2 instead.
&gt;
&gt;&gt; Multiple organisations: yes, but the formula itself is from the FIA. The
&gt;&gt; FIA cancelled their own F3000 International Championship in favour of the
&gt;&gt; new GP2 series.
&gt;
&gt; Japan has their own F3000 class. USA has a F3000 hill climb event. I'm not
&gt; sure how many other &quot;F3000&quot; classes there are. As previously posted, FIA
&gt; canceled their own F3000 class.

Japans &quot;F3000&quot; is called Formula Nippon. It once was based on the F3000
chassis-rules that were used in Europe before 1996. In 1996 the FIA
transformed F3000 in a single-make series (all cars Lola Zytek), while the
Formula Nippon sticked to the old rules. I last saw a Formula Nippon-race 2
years ago and the cars still looked pretty much the same as the
pre-1996-F3000-cars, but I suppose that they must have changed something at
least in terms of safety.
You are right, there are many F3000-series´, some use the old F3000-cars,
some the newer Lola Zyteks. For example Australia´s Formula Holden also uses
old pre-1996-F3000-chassis but with their own engines.

Regards
Stephan

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