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General » rec.autos.driving » Update on street racing crash that killed 8
| Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794905] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 19:42 |
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Looks more and more like it was all the fault of the idiot spectators
standing in the road.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7321410
Driver Tried to Stop Before Md. Crash
* Tuesday February 19 2008
By STEPHEN MANNING Associated Press Writer
WALDORF, Md. (AP) - A man who drove his car into a crowd of street-racing
fans tried to stop by slamming on the brakes and is traumatized by the
tragedy that left eight people dead, his guardian said Tuesday.
Darren Bullock, 20, has been ``like a zombie'' ever since the crash along
an isolated stretch of highway early Saturday, said James Walls, who
raised Bullock from childhood.
Bullock was driving his brother home from a band practice session shortly
before 4 a.m. when he came up on the spectators standing in the road,
Walls said. Bullock slammed on his brakes but the car struck the crowd
that had gathered t witness and police reports, Walls said, Bullock had
the car's headlights on and does not remember seeing smoke kicked up by
the racing cars.
``We feel sorry for the victims,'' Walls said Tuesday at his Waldorf town
house. He said Bullock is ``pretty much a victim, too.''
Walls said he was consulting with a lawyer and that Bullock was not
available for comment. Bullock was questioned by police at the scene
early Saturday, but no charges have been filed. Authorities were still
looking for the drivers involved in the street race.
Bullock and his older brother were not seriously injured - Bullock
sustained just a bruised lip, Walls said. But he worries that Bullock
will be haunted by memories, and he refuses to drive anymore, especially
at night.
``This is a 20-year-old man who was just coming up the road,'' Walls
said. ``His life is changed forever.''
Prince George's County Police officer Cpl. Clinton Copeland on Tuesday
appealed to those who witnessed the crash to come forward with their
accounts. He declined to give details on the investigation.
Mourners, meanwhile, continued to visit the scene of the crash, leaving
candles, flowers, photographs and stuffed animals.
Authorities identified the victims as Otis Williams, 35, of Indian Head;
Milton Pinkney, 41, of La Plata; Mark Courtney, 33, of Leonardtown; Daryl
Wills, 38, of Clinton; Maycol Lopez, 20, of Gaithersburg; Blaine Briscoe,
49, of La Plata; William Gaines, 61, of Nanjemoy; and Ervin Gardner, 39,
of Oxon Hill.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794907 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 19:55 |
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On Feb 19, 1:42=A0pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
<xeton2... [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> Looks more and more like it was all the fault of the idiot spectators
> standing in the road.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7321410
>
> Driver Tried to Stop Before Md. Crash
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0* Tuesday February 19 2008
>
> By STEPHEN MANNING =A0 Associated Press Writer
>
> WALDORF, Md. (AP) - A man who drove his car into a crowd of street-racing
> fans tried to stop by slamming on the brakes and is traumatized by the
> tragedy that left eight people dead, his guardian said Tuesday.
>
> Darren Bullock, 20, has been ``like a zombie'' ever since the crash along
> an isolated stretch of highway early Saturday, said James Walls, who
> raised Bullock from childhood.
>
> Bullock was driving his brother home from a band practice session shortly
> before 4 a.m. when he came up on the spectators standing in the road,
> Walls said. Bullock slammed on his brakes but the car struck the crowd
> that had gathered t witness and police reports, Walls said, Bullock had
> the car's headlights on and does not remember seeing smoke kicked up by
> the racing cars.
>
> ``We feel sorry for the victims,'' Walls said Tuesday at his Waldorf town
> house. He said Bullock is ``pretty much a victim, too.''
>
> Walls said he was consulting with a lawyer and that Bullock was not
> available for comment. Bullock was questioned by police at the scene
> early Saturday, but no charges have been filed. Authorities were still
> looking for the drivers involved in the street race.
>
> Bullock and his older brother were not seriously injured - Bullock
> sustained just a bruised lip, Walls said. But he worries that Bullock
> will be haunted by memories, and he refuses to drive anymore, especially
> at night.
>
> ``This is a 20-year-old man who was just coming up the road,'' Walls
> said. ``His life is changed forever.''
>
> Prince George's County Police officer Cpl. Clinton Copeland on Tuesday
> appealed to those who witnessed the crash to come forward with their
> accounts. He declined to give details on the investigation.
>
> Mourners, meanwhile, continued to visit the scene of the crash, leaving
> candles, flowers, photographs and stuffed animals.
>
> Authorities identified the victims as Otis Williams, 35, of Indian Head;
> Milton Pinkney, 41, of La Plata; Mark Courtney, 33, of Leonardtown; Daryl
> Wills, 38, of Clinton; Maycol Lopez, 20, of Gaithersburg; Blaine Briscoe,
> 49, of La Plata; William Gaines, 61, of Nanjemoy; and Ervin Gardner, 39,
> of Oxon Hill.
20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794912 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 20:21 |
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In article <330fd756-fcb1-446c-947d-5697d22e47f1 [at] q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 19, 1:42 pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
><xeton2... [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Looks more and more like it was all the fault of the idiot spectators
>> standing in the road.
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7321410
>>
>> Driver Tried to Stop Before Md. Crash
>>
>> * Tuesday February 19 2008
>>
>> By STEPHEN MANNING Associated Press Writer
>>
>> WALDORF, Md. (AP) - A man who drove his car into a crowd of street-racing
>> fans tried to stop by slamming on the brakes and is traumatized by the
>> tragedy that left eight people dead, his guardian said Tuesday.
>>
>> Darren Bullock, 20, has been ``like a zombie'' ever since the crash along
>> an isolated stretch of highway early Saturday, said James Walls, who
>> raised Bullock from childhood.
>>
>> Bullock was driving his brother home from a band practice session shortly
>> before 4 a.m. when he came up on the spectators standing in the road,
>> Walls said. Bullock slammed on his brakes but the car struck the crowd
>> that had gathered t witness and police reports, Walls said, Bullock had
>> the car's headlights on and does not remember seeing smoke kicked up by
>> the racing cars.
>>
>> ``We feel sorry for the victims,'' Walls said Tuesday at his Waldorf town
>> house. He said Bullock is ``pretty much a victim, too.''
>>
>> Walls said he was consulting with a lawyer and that Bullock was not
>> available for comment. Bullock was questioned by police at the scene
>> early Saturday, but no charges have been filed. Authorities were still
>> looking for the drivers involved in the street race.
>>
>> Bullock and his older brother were not seriously injured - Bullock
>> sustained just a bruised lip, Walls said. But he worries that Bullock
>> will be haunted by memories, and he refuses to drive anymore, especially
>> at night.
>>
>> ``This is a 20-year-old man who was just coming up the road,'' Walls
>> said. ``His life is changed forever.''
>>
>> Prince George's County Police officer Cpl. Clinton Copeland on Tuesday
>> appealed to those who witnessed the crash to come forward with their
>> accounts. He declined to give details on the investigation.
>>
>> Mourners, meanwhile, continued to visit the scene of the crash, leaving
>> candles, flowers, photographs and stuffed animals.
>>
>> Authorities identified the victims as Otis Williams, 35, of Indian Head;
>> Milton Pinkney, 41, of La Plata; Mark Courtney, 33, of Leonardtown; Daryl
>> Wills, 38, of Clinton; Maycol Lopez, 20, of Gaithersburg; Blaine Briscoe,
>> 49, of La Plata; William Gaines, 61, of Nanjemoy; and Ervin Gardner, 39,
>> of Oxon Hill.
>
> 20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
But lucky he was driving a (grandpa's) crown vic instead of a riced out
civic. Had he been driving the later he would be in BIG trouble with no
other change in circumstances.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794914 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 20:42 |
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"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:y5KdnSy3s5DSsSbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> In article
> <330fd756-fcb1-446c-947d-5697d22e47f1 [at] q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
..
>>
>> 20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
>
Man was I wrong on that one!
\
> But lucky he was driving a (grandpa's) crown vic instead of a riced out
> civic. Had he been driving the later he would be in BIG trouble with no
> other change in circumstances.
>
Well, there would be one change: Not so many dead and injured. A car half
the size and half the weight would have not clipped so many people.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794916 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 20:39 |
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In article <35-dnQ2C8sNjsibanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d [at] comcast.com>, Bo Raxo wrote:
>
> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:y5KdnSy3s5DSsSbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> In article
>> <330fd756-fcb1-446c-947d-5697d22e47f1 [at] q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>> DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
> .
>>>
>>> 20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
>>
>
> Man was I wrong on that one!
> \
>> But lucky he was driving a (grandpa's) crown vic instead of a riced out
>> civic. Had he been driving the later he would be in BIG trouble with no
>> other change in circumstances.
>>
>
> Well, there would be one change: Not so many dead and injured. A car half
> the size and half the weight would have not clipped so many people.
Not if it spun sideways!
replace with any car the cops could claim was for 'street racing' too,
even old school big V8 muscle....
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794936 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 21:41 |
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"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:W6WdncRZ3dwUrSbanZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> In article <35-dnQ2C8sNjsibanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d [at] comcast.com>, Bo Raxo wrote:
>>
>> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:y5KdnSy3s5DSsSbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>> In article
>>> <330fd756-fcb1-446c-947d-5697d22e47f1 [at] q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>>> DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
>> .
>>>>
>>>> 20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
>>>
>>
>> Man was I wrong on that one!
>> \
>>> But lucky he was driving a (grandpa's) crown vic instead of a riced out
>>> civic. Had he been driving the later he would be in BIG trouble with no
>>> other change in circumstances.
>>>
>>
>> Well, there would be one change: Not so many dead and injured. A car
>> half
>> the size and half the weight would have not clipped so many people.
>
> Not if it spun sideways!
>
Well, first, it sounds like the smoke obscured the crowd and he just plowed
in to them. Second, a sideways Civic and a sideways Crown Vic - nope, not
going to clip as many people.
Bonus points: that rear wheel drive Crown Vic with a solid rear axle and
other crappy suspension components is going to get sideways a lot easier
than a front wheel drive Civic with MacPherson struts etc. That Ford was
probably an old county or PD car he bought at auction with everything worn
out from tons of use.
> replace with any car the cops could claim was for 'street racing' too,
> even old school big V8 muscle....
>
Yeah, he's lucky he was driving something like that in terms of being
accused of something. Best of all for him if there are no skid marks or
other way to reliably estimate his speed. Does the black box in those cars
record the last ten or fifteen seconds of data and store it if the airbags
deploy? I know most recent GM vehicles do that. Could be crucial in
whether he gets charged with vehicular manslaughter.
Bo Raxo
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794939 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 21:53 |
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"Bo Raxo" <crimenewscenter [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:w6mdnQeFFqBuoCbanZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>
> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:W6WdncRZ3dwUrSbanZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> In article <35-dnQ2C8sNjsibanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d [at] comcast.com>, Bo Raxo wrote:
>>>
>>> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:y5KdnSy3s5DSsSbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>>> In article
>>>> <330fd756-fcb1-446c-947d-5697d22e47f1 [at] q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> 20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Man was I wrong on that one!
>>> \
>>>> But lucky he was driving a (grandpa's) crown vic instead of a riced out
>>>> civic. Had he been driving the later he would be in BIG trouble with no
>>>> other change in circumstances.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, there would be one change: Not so many dead and injured. A car
>>> half
>>> the size and half the weight would have not clipped so many people.
>>
>> Not if it spun sideways!
>>
>
> Well, first, it sounds like the smoke obscured the crowd and he just
> plowed in to them. Second, a sideways Civic and a sideways Crown Vic -
> nope, not going to clip as many people.
>
> Bonus points: that rear wheel drive Crown Vic with a solid rear axle and
> other crappy suspension components is going to get sideways a lot easier
> than a front wheel drive Civic with MacPherson struts etc. That Ford was
> probably an old county or PD car he bought at auction with everything worn
> out from tons of use.
>
>> replace with any car the cops could claim was for 'street racing' too,
>> even old school big V8 muscle....
>>
>
> Yeah, he's lucky he was driving something like that in terms of being
> accused of something. Best of all for him if there are no skid marks or
> other way to reliably estimate his speed. Does the black box in those
> cars record the last ten or fifteen seconds of data and store it if the
> airbags deploy? I know most recent GM vehicles do that. Could be crucial
> in whether he gets charged with vehicular manslaughter.
>
>
> Bo Raxo
>
Oh for Pete's sake, Bo. There were people standing in the middle of a 55
mph highway at 4 am. I don't care how fast the kid was going, there was
absolutely no reason for him to be watching for a crowd of people in the
middle of the road. The only people who should be charged in this case are
the racers! If not for them, there would be no bystander crowd in the
middle of the highway.
I think this kid is just as much --or more-- a victim than anyone else
involved here except for any children who may have been present. I am happy
he was not hurt badly. I think he deserves to be paid for his trauma and
suffering. Not his fault. At all.
Betsy
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794941 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 22:06 |
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On Feb 19, 3:53 pm, "Betsy" <b.fern... [at] comcast.net> wrote:
> "Bo Raxo" <crimenewscen... [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> > Yeah, he's lucky he was driving something like that in terms of being
> > accused of something. Best of all for him if there are no skid marks or
> > other way to reliably estimate his speed. Does the black box in those
> > cars record the last ten or fifteen seconds of data and store it if the
> > airbags deploy? I know most recent GM vehicles do that. Could be crucial
> > in whether he gets charged with vehicular manslaughter.
>
> > Bo Raxo
>
> Oh for Pete's sake, Bo. There were people standing in the middle of a 55
> mph highway at 4 am. I don't care how fast the kid was going, there was
> absolutely no reason for him to be watching for a crowd of people in the
> middle of the road.
You should be looking where you're driving regardless. I don't
believe we have enough info to decide this kid was at fault, but your
statement here makes it sound like there's no obligation to look where
one is driving. There could have been a disabled bus of kids, or
churchgoers on the way to a retreat, or a cyclist JRA (just riding
along).
> The only people who should be charged in this case are the racers!
And not the grown adults that made the decision to stand in the middle
of a 55 mph highway? Seems to me the racers were competent drivers,
they didn't crash or run anyone over and they were more than likely
driving faster than anyone else there.
> If not for them, there would be no bystander crowd in the
> middle of the highway.
And if not for people buying cars, there would be no car theft. If
not for school, there would be no schoolyard bullying. They didn't
push the crowd into the roadway, every adult there made a decision.
The only relevant decision to this particular event is the decision of
a group of adults to walk into the highway. Responsibility for one's
own actions and all that.
> I think this kid is just as much --or more-- a victim than anyone else
> involved here except for any children who may have been present. I am happy
> he was not hurt badly.
Here we agree.
>I think he deserves to be paid for his trauma and
> suffering. Not his fault. At all.
What does "not his fault" have to do with him being paid for his
suffering? It's a sad state of society when the default response to
someone's suffering is always "they should be paid". Who's going to
pay the kid? The deceased? I certainly see no reason my tax dollars
should pay him. People go through more traumatic events all the time,
it doesn't entitle them to an automatic payout. If you think this kid
"deserves to be paid for his trauma and suffering" open up *your*
checkbook and send him a check.
Dan
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794944 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 22:18 |
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In article <w6mdnQeFFqBuoCbanZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d [at] comcast.com>, Bo Raxo wrote:
>
> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:W6WdncRZ3dwUrSbanZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> In article <35-dnQ2C8sNjsibanZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d [at] comcast.com>, Bo Raxo wrote:
>>>
>>> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:y5KdnSy3s5DSsSbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>>> In article
>>>> <330fd756-fcb1-446c-947d-5697d22e47f1 [at] q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> 20 years old. So much for it being a geezer! lol!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Man was I wrong on that one!
>>> \
>>>> But lucky he was driving a (grandpa's) crown vic instead of a riced out
>>>> civic. Had he been driving the later he would be in BIG trouble with no
>>>> other change in circumstances.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, there would be one change: Not so many dead and injured. A car
>>> half
>>> the size and half the weight would have not clipped so many people.
>>
>> Not if it spun sideways!
>>
>
> Well, first, it sounds like the smoke obscured the crowd and he just plowed
> in to them. Second, a sideways Civic and a sideways Crown Vic - nope, not
> going to clip as many people.
>
> Bonus points: that rear wheel drive Crown Vic with a solid rear axle and
> other crappy suspension components is going to get sideways a lot easier
> than a front wheel drive Civic with MacPherson struts etc. That Ford was
> probably an old county or PD car he bought at auction with everything worn
> out from tons of use.
Gee-bus---it was a joke.
>> replace with any car the cops could claim was for 'street racing' too,
>> even old school big V8 muscle....
>>
>
> Yeah, he's lucky he was driving something like that in terms of being
> accused of something. Best of all for him if there are no skid marks or
> other way to reliably estimate his speed. Does the black box in those cars
> record the last ten or fifteen seconds of data and store it if the airbags
> deploy? I know most recent GM vehicles do that. Could be crucial in
> whether he gets charged with vehicular manslaughter.
If there are no skid marks it works worse.... I remember when ABS first
started to be common... cops would accuse people of not braking because
there wouldn't be any skid marks...
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794960 ] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 23:44 |
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On Feb 19, 12:55=A0pm, "DanK... [at] gmail.com" <DanK... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 1:42=A0pm, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"
>
>
>
>
>
> <xeton2... [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Looks more and more like it was all the fault of the idiot spectators
> > standing in the road.
>
> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7321410
>
> > Driver Tried to Stop Before Md. Crash
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0* Tuesday February 19 2008
>
> > By STEPHEN MANNING =A0 Associated Press Writer
>
> > WALDORF, Md. (AP) - A man who drove his car into a crowd of street-racin=
g
> > fans tried to stop by slamming on the brakes and is traumatized by the
> > tragedy that left eight people dead, his guardian said Tuesday.
>
> > Darren Bullock, 20, has been ``like a zombie'' ever since the crash alon=
g
> > an isolated stretch of highway early Saturday, said James Walls, who
> > raised Bullock from childhood.
>
> > Bullock was driving his brother home from a band practice session shortl=
y
> > before 4 a.m. when he came up on the spectators standing in the road,
> > Walls said. Bullock slammed on his brakes but the car struck the crowd
> > that had gathered t witness and police reports, Walls said, Bullock had
> > the car's headlights on and does not remember seeing smoke kicked up by
> > the racing cars.
>
> > ``We feel sorry for the victims,'' Walls said Tuesday at his Waldorf tow=
n
> > house. He said Bullock is ``pretty much a victim, too.''
>
> > Walls said he was consulting with a lawyer and that Bullock was not
> > available for comment. Bullock was questioned by police at the scene
> > early Saturday, but no charges have been filed. Authorities were still
> > looking for the drivers involved in the street race.
>
> > Bullock and his older brother were not seriously injured - Bullock
> > sustained just a bruised lip, Walls said. But he worries that Bullock
> > will be haunted by memories, and he refuses to drive anymore, especially=
> > at night.
>
> > ``This is a 20-year-old man who was just coming up the road,'' Walls
> > said. ``His life is changed forever.''
>
> > Prince George's County Police officer Cpl. Clinton Copeland on Tuesday
> > appealed to those who witnessed the crash to come forward with their
> > accounts. He declined to give details on the investigation.
>
> > Mourners, meanwhile, continued to visit the scene of the crash, leaving
> > candles, flowers, photographs and stuffed animals.
>
> > Authorities identified the victims as Otis Williams, 35, of Indian Head;=
> > Milton Pinkney, 41, of La Plata; Mark Courtney, 33, of Leonardtown; Dary=
l
> > Wills, 38, of Clinton; Maycol Lopez, 20, of Gaithersburg; Blaine Briscoe=
,
> > 49, of La Plata; William Gaines, 61, of Nanjemoy; and Ervin Gardner, 39,=
> > of Oxon Hill.
>
> 20 years old. =A0So much for it being a geezer! =A0lol!- Hide quoted text =
-
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL for sure...20 is only a geezer from the perspective of the wet-
behind-the-ears teen just getting a license.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794978 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 00:43 |
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:53:08 -0800, "Betsy" <b.fernley [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>Oh for Pete's sake, Bo. There were people standing in the middle of a 55
>mph highway at 4 am. I don't care how fast the kid was going, there was
>absolutely no reason for him to be watching for a crowd of people in the
>middle of the road. The only people who should be charged in this case are
>the racers! If not for them, there would be no bystander crowd in the
>middle of the highway.
If you think that having a pile of people being where they have no business
being will protect the driver, you just don't understand this area. Here, it
is the case that, "Something bad happened, so we have to punish somebody."
Case in point - In Fredericksburg last year, a fellow was in the left lane of 2
lanes that could both turn left at a light. The road upon which they could
turn left merged from 2 lanes to 1 lane about 50 yards after the turn. When
the left green arrow came on, he accelerated and turned into the leftmost lane
of the road, while a woman with a kid in the car on his right also turned left
into the outermost lane of the road. She accelerated, attempting to get in
front of this guy, but didn't make it. She cut him off, clipping his front
end, setting her car sideways, and causing her to crash. She was killed.
The cops charged this guy! No kidding - can't remember what they charged him
with, but basically he didn't do anything, the woman did it all, but,
"Something bad happened, so somebody must be punished."
I've been living in fear ever since I got to this place over getting accused of
something. This, and many other instances of legal idiocy around here just
spook the H out of me. Not getting accused is a matter of luck here. So far,
I've been lucky. But... you don't have to _do_ anything to get hauled into
court here.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #794989 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 01:13 |
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In article <51qmr3d0ofb1orv07u7k0ha269o95ce3jp [at] 4ax.com>, Dave Head wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:53:08 -0800, "Betsy" <b.fernley [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>>Oh for Pete's sake, Bo. There were people standing in the middle of a 55
>>mph highway at 4 am. I don't care how fast the kid was going, there was
>>absolutely no reason for him to be watching for a crowd of people in the
>>middle of the road. The only people who should be charged in this case are
>>the racers! If not for them, there would be no bystander crowd in the
>>middle of the highway.
>
> If you think that having a pile of people being where they have no business
> being will protect the driver, you just don't understand this area. Here, it
> is the case that, "Something bad happened, so we have to punish somebody."
>
> Case in point - In Fredericksburg last year, a fellow was in the left lane of 2
> lanes that could both turn left at a light. The road upon which they could
> turn left merged from 2 lanes to 1 lane about 50 yards after the turn. When
> the left green arrow came on, he accelerated and turned into the leftmost lane
> of the road, while a woman with a kid in the car on his right also turned left
> into the outermost lane of the road. She accelerated, attempting to get in
> front of this guy, but didn't make it. She cut him off, clipping his front
> end, setting her car sideways, and causing her to crash. She was killed.
>
> The cops charged this guy! No kidding - can't remember what they charged him
> with, but basically he didn't do anything, the woman did it all, but,
> "Something bad happened, so somebody must be punished."
I would say it falls under the MFFY protection infinite tolerance just
let them do it policy. He failed to back down properly to the woman's MFFY
aggression.
A few weeks ago on the NB calumet I am in the center lane just about to
begin my pass of someone in the right lane when I notice a BMW gaining
rapidly on the right... I mean rapidly, well over 100mph. A first I
thought about dropping a gear and preventing him from cutting me off...
I decided just to accelerate for my pass normally to see if he'd back
off. He didn't. When it got to the point where if I didn't take action he
was going to hit me or the car I intended to pass I backed off... he cut
me off and then into the left lane and I lost sight of him.
> I've been living in fear ever since I got to this place over getting accused of
> something. This, and many other instances of legal idiocy around here just
> spook the H out of me. Not getting accused is a matter of luck here. So far,
> I've been lucky. But... you don't have to _do_ anything to get hauled into
> court here.
That's tyranny for ya ;)
The crown vic driver is safe because 'street racing' is _EVIL_ so the
blame is on the drivers doing the burn outs. He's just damn lucky he was
driving a crown vic instead of something that could get him accused of
being in the 'street race'.
Anyway most of are just the whim of 'authority' away from being hauled in
these days.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #795023 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 03:02 |
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #795024 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 03:04 |
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #795026 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 03:15 |
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<DanKMTB [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8824395-6a4c-4626-a229-088ee27b0bba [at] o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 19, 3:53 pm, "Betsy" <b.fern... [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>> "Bo Raxo" <crimenewscen... [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > Yeah, he's lucky he was driving something like that in terms of being
>> > accused of something. Best of all for him if there are no skid marks
>> > or
>> > other way to reliably estimate his speed. Does the black box in those
>> > cars record the last ten or fifteen seconds of data and store it if the
>> > airbags deploy? I know most recent GM vehicles do that. Could be
>> > crucial
>> > in whether he gets charged with vehicular manslaughter.
>>
>> > Bo Raxo
>>
>> Oh for Pete's sake, Bo. There were people standing in the middle of a 55
>> mph highway at 4 am. I don't care how fast the kid was going, there was
>> absolutely no reason for him to be watching for a crowd of people in the
>> middle of the road.
>
> You should be looking where you're driving regardless. I don't
> believe we have enough info to decide this kid was at fault, but your
> statement here makes it sound like there's no obligation to look where
> one is driving. There could have been a disabled bus of kids, or
> churchgoers on the way to a retreat, or a cyclist JRA (just riding
> along).
>
>
>> The only people who should be charged in this case are the racers!
>
> And not the grown adults that made the decision to stand in the middle
> of a 55 mph highway? Seems to me the racers were competent drivers,
> they didn't crash or run anyone over and they were more than likely
> driving faster than anyone else there.
They didn't run over anyone because the idiots were standing behind them.
Racers kill innocent people all the time!
>
>
>> If not for them, there would be no bystander crowd in the
>> middle of the highway.
>
> And if not for people buying cars, there would be no car theft. If
> not for school, there would be no schoolyard bullying. They didn't
> push the crowd into the roadway, every adult there made a decision.
> The only relevant decision to this particular event is the decision of
> a group of adults to walk into the highway. Responsibility for one's
> own actions and all that.
>
>
>> I think this kid is just as much --or more-- a victim than anyone else
>> involved here except for any children who may have been present. I am
>> happy
>> he was not hurt badly.
>
> Here we agree.
>
>
>>I think he deserves to be paid for his trauma and
>> suffering. Not his fault. At all.
>
> What does "not his fault" have to do with him being paid for his
> suffering? It's a sad state of society when the default response to
> someone's suffering is always "they should be paid". Who's going to
> pay the kid? The deceased? I certainly see no reason my tax dollars
> should pay him. People go through more traumatic events all the time,
> it doesn't entitle them to an automatic payout. If you think this kid
> "deserves to be paid for his trauma and suffering" open up *your*
> checkbook and send him a check.
>
> Dan
It was not forseeable to the driver that a large group of people would be
standing in the middle of a highway at in the dark at 4 am. However, it WAS
forseeable that an innocent motorist, who had nothing to do with the race,
might come along and not see said group of idiots standing on the highway in
the dark at 4 am. Surely you get this difference? Yes, he should watch the
road. But should he have forseen a group of people standing in the highway
at 4 am and geared his driving to that unusual circumstance? No. In front
of a school at 3 pm? Sure.
And yes, if he is truly traumatized and wants to sue the racers, I believe
the law would say he has that right. Tax dollars have nothing to do with
it. The racer's insurance, and the gawkers' insurance companies, or their
own pocketbooks will be on the line. Do you really think every time someone
who is harmed in an auto accident is paid from tax dollars? Sheesh.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #795028 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 03:27 |
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In article <S9ydndSHc8rxESbanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d [at] comcast.com>, Betsy wrote:
> They didn't run over anyone because the idiots were standing behind them.
> Racers kill innocent people all the time!
So do incompetent drivers but you don't see the rabid punishments and the
removal of due process and property siezing of all incompetent drivers on
the road. The Mr. Magoos are still allowed to cause all sorts of havok
without punishment as well.
> It was not forseeable to the driver that a large group of people would be
> standing in the middle of a highway at in the dark at 4 am.
Yet, everytime some member of a 'bad' group is the driver of a vehicle
that strikes something unacceptable and unforseeable to be in the road we
hear lectures on how speed kills and how drivers have to know about the
'unexpected'. If the peds were say a mother and child jaywalking.... hell
even in midblock cross walk we'd be hearing how reckless this 20 year old
was driving. If the 20 year old was driving say a car just like mine, a
mustang (which would have nearly the same engine as the crown vic), or
heaven forbid something riced out we'd be told he was part of the street
racing. Who's at fault when it comes to something like this is
done based on the perceptions of each party.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #795037 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 04:15 |
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On Feb 19, 1:53 pm, "Betsy" <b.fern... [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Oh for Pete's sake, Bo. There were people standing in the middle of a 55
> mph highway at 4 am. I don't care how fast the kid was going, there was
> absolutely no reason for him to be watching for a crowd of people in the
> middle of the road. The only people who should be charged in this case are
> the racers! If not for them, there would be no bystander crowd in the
> middle of the highway.
>
> I think this kid is just as much --or more-- a victim than anyone else
> involved here except for any children who may have been present. I am happy
> he was not hurt badly. I think he deserves to be paid for his trauma and
> suffering. Not his fault. At all.
> Betsy
That's how i see it too. Whatever the crown vic driver did, 90% of
the blame goes on the idiot spectators. I'm glad they're dead.
People who watch street racing are extreme speeders themselves and a
public menace. They won't kill anyone now.
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| Re: Update on street racing crash that killed 8 [message #795126 ] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 18:31 |
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> You should be looking where you're driving regardless. I don't
> believe we have enough info to decide this kid was at fault, but your
> statement here makes it sound like there's no obligation to look where
> one is driving. There could have been a disabled bus of kids...
Not to mention bums too drunk to realize they're *in* the road,
drivers wobbling over the center line or making an ill-advised and
poorly executed entrance onto the scene, drivers of a disabled car
trying to flag someone down (standing in the middle of the road to do
this, perhaps because they didn't have a flashlight; the rear third of
a dead '77 Granada sticking into the fast lane at the far end of a
tight curve, mattresses, console televisions, sofas, big tree limbs,
deer alive and dead, cows, and... oh, I'll spare you the whole litany
of things I'm glad I didn't hit over the years. You *have* to watch
out.
As for the smoke cloud -- I think conditions that reduce visibility
are among the things you have to watch out for.
> And not the grown adults that made the decision to stand in the middle
> of a 55 mph highway?
There are probably enough lessons-learned to go around (pending the
acquisition of more facts -- as you and others have pointed out, we
have relatively few, and those filtered through the news media). But
certainly I'd be inclined to think that a major lesson is "don't stand
around in the middle of the highway 'cuz you might get run over."
A Washington Post article claimed that these underground races often
involve some form of roadblock, such as a tow truck with the gumballs
going, blocking the road upstream of the race. Doesn't make it truly
safe, much less *right*, but at least makes it a bit more
survivable.
--Joe
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