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General » rec.autos.driving » Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites
| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794277] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 22:49 |
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On Feb 14, 4:22=A0pm, "HeyBub" <hey... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
> >>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
> >>> thing.
>
> >> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it.
> >> Under the Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters
> >> of sustained economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less
> >> than a year to fuck it up.
>
> > If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
> > creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are
> > begining to see that come apart now.
>
> To a conspiracy theorist, everything to which they're opposed is the resul=
t
> of secret, backroom manipulation. There are any number of private studies
> that confirm the economic growth. The money supply, M1, hasn't changed ver=
y
> much is the past six years.
Just about everyone is talking about a "recession" except the
government.
Hell, I was listening in on a conference call where a very high level
executive in a very large international corporation admitted that he
foresaw a recession coming, if we weren't already in one. (the thing
about recessions is, they're usually identified after the fact.)
My point is, anyone who's in any way tapped into what's going on is
talking about the R word. The failure of the administration to even
acknowledge this is just unconscionable. If this is economic growth,
I'd like to have less of it, please.
nate
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794405 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 17:41 |
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"N8N" <njnagel [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f2c5ea8-9114-4bd2-b449-103d1bbaf1b5 [at] d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 14, 4:22 pm, "HeyBub" <hey... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
> >>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
> >>> thing.
>
> >> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it.
> >> Under the Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters
> >> of sustained economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less
> >> than a year to fuck it up.
>
> > If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
> > creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are
> > begining to see that come apart now.
>
> To a conspiracy theorist, everything to which they're opposed is the
> result
> of secret, backroom manipulation. There are any number of private studies
> that confirm the economic growth. The money supply, M1, hasn't changed
> very
> much is the past six years.
Just about everyone is talking about a "recession" except the
government.
Hell, I was listening in on a conference call where a very high level
executive in a very large international corporation admitted that he
foresaw a recession coming, if we weren't already in one. (the thing
about recessions is, they're usually identified after the fact.)
My point is, anyone who's in any way tapped into what's going on is
talking about the R word. The failure of the administration to even
acknowledge this is just unconscionable. If this is economic growth,
I'd like to have less of it, please.
nate
The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually stimulates
many segments of the economy, Fuel prices (#1 reason for downturn IMO), the
stupid money crunch due to the insane lending practices of the home market,
(by far more important than given credit for) and the continued harping by
the Dems and press that the economy sucks. They need the leverage since the
"Surge" is working in Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the
existing loans to fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans, fuel
no easy fix. We need someone to take the "We'll be on the moon by the end of
the decade" push. If we do that we'll go a long ways on killing several
birds with that one stone; Energy Independence. Which I like as a campaign
slogan for the push. The money used to fuel the terrorist would dry up and
the importance of the Middle east would soon go the way of the Vietnam
hysteria. Now if we had a leader that would exposes these goals and the
truly courageous will to act on them we would have a easy leader to follow.
Jim
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794406 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 17:59 |
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In article <khjtj.711$0M3.436 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
> The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
> somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually stimulates
> many segments of the economy,
The war sucks capital and mis-allocates it. It causes the government to
create more money destroying value in the money saved by people and
businesses. The government always takes a cost off the top of any money
it takes from one group to give or spend in another area. Basically, war
kills economies in the long run. The free market could do much better
with the money and material. Not to mention the loss of productive man
hours wasted on war.
> Fuel prices (#1 reason for downturn IMO)
Due to the conditions of war and the lack of a free market. it's not like
someone can just go build a refinery these days to profit from the high
fuel prices by under-cutting the competition.
>, the
> stupid money crunch due to the insane lending practices of the home market,
> (by far more important than given credit for)
It goes far deeper than that:
http://groups.google.com/group/chi.general/msg/f4e4470f49f72 6ea
> and the continued harping by
> the Dems and press that the economy sucks. They need the leverage since the
> "Surge" is working in Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the
> existing loans to fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans, fuel
> no easy fix. W
Fix government intervention with more government interventioN! Fix
inflation with more inflation! fix too much credit with more credit! [at]
> the decade" push. If we do that we'll go a long ways on killing several
> birds with that one stone; Energy Independence. Which I like as a campaign
> slogan for the push. The money used to fuel the terrorist would dry up and
> the importance of the Middle east would soon go the way of the Vietnam
> hysteria. Now if we had a leader that would exposes these goals and the
> truly courageous will to act on them we would have a easy leader to follow.
Ahh yes, a strong leader, fascism. It's back in style.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794408 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 18:15 |
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"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gfqdnT0NZI5iWSjanZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> In article <khjtj.711$0M3.436 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
>
>> The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
>> somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually
>> stimulates
>> many segments of the economy,
>
> The war sucks capital and mis-allocates it. It causes the government to
> create more money destroying value in the money saved by people and
> businesses. The government always takes a cost off the top of any money
> it takes from one group to give or spend in another area. Basically, war
> kills economies in the long run. The free market could do much better
> with the money and material. Not to mention the loss of productive man
> hours wasted on war.
>
>> Fuel prices (#1 reason for downturn IMO)
>
> Due to the conditions of war and the lack of a free market. it's not like
> someone can just go build a refinery these days to profit from the high
> fuel prices by under-cutting the competition.
>
>>, the
>> stupid money crunch due to the insane lending practices of the home
>> market,
>> (by far more important than given credit for)
>
> It goes far deeper than that:
> http://groups.google.com/group/chi.general/msg/f4e4470f49f72 6ea
>
>> and the continued harping by
>> the Dems and press that the economy sucks. They need the leverage since
>> the
>> "Surge" is working in Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the
>> existing loans to fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans,
>> fuel
>> no easy fix. W
>
> Fix government intervention with more government interventioN! Fix
> inflation with more inflation! fix too much credit with more credit! [at]
>
>> the decade" push. If we do that we'll go a long ways on killing several
>> birds with that one stone; Energy Independence. Which I like as a
>> campaign
>> slogan for the push. The money used to fuel the terrorist would dry up
>> and
>> the importance of the Middle east would soon go the way of the Vietnam
>> hysteria. Now if we had a leader that would exposes these goals and the
>> truly courageous will to act on them we would have a easy leader to
>> follow.
>
> Ahh yes, a strong leader, fascism. It's back in style.
>
Fascism? Was Reagan a Fascist? I mean a strong, dynamic leader not a tyrant.
I didn't say more credit I said replace the bad notes with realistic notes.
That was improper credit on bogus terms. The housing market is essential to
our economy. And what intervention of the government did you read into the
post?
Jim
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794411 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 18:34 |
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In article <9Njtj.721$0M3.138 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:gfqdnT0NZI5iWSjanZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> In article <khjtj.711$0M3.436 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
>>
>>> The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
>>> somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually
>>> stimulates
>>> many segments of the economy,
>>
>> The war sucks capital and mis-allocates it. It causes the government to
>> create more money destroying value in the money saved by people and
>> businesses. The government always takes a cost off the top of any money
>> it takes from one group to give or spend in another area. Basically, war
>> kills economies in the long run. The free market could do much better
>> with the money and material. Not to mention the loss of productive man
>> hours wasted on war.
>>
>>> Fuel prices (#1 reason for downturn IMO)
>>
>> Due to the conditions of war and the lack of a free market. it's not like
>> someone can just go build a refinery these days to profit from the high
>> fuel prices by under-cutting the competition.
>>
>>>, the
>>> stupid money crunch due to the insane lending practices of the home
>>> market,
>>> (by far more important than given credit for)
>>
>> It goes far deeper than that:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/chi.general/msg/f4e4470f49f72 6ea
>>
>>> and the continued harping by
>>> the Dems and press that the economy sucks. They need the leverage since
>>> the
>>> "Surge" is working in Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the
>>> existing loans to fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans,
>>> fuel
>>> no easy fix. W
>>
>> Fix government intervention with more government interventioN! Fix
>> inflation with more inflation! fix too much credit with more credit! [at]
>>
>>> the decade" push. If we do that we'll go a long ways on killing several
>>> birds with that one stone; Energy Independence. Which I like as a
>>> campaign
>>> slogan for the push. The money used to fuel the terrorist would dry up
>>> and
>>> the importance of the Middle east would soon go the way of the Vietnam
>>> hysteria. Now if we had a leader that would exposes these goals and the
>>> truly courageous will to act on them we would have a easy leader to
>>> follow.
>>
>> Ahh yes, a strong leader, fascism. It's back in style.
>>
>
> Fascism? Was Reagan a Fascist? I mean a strong, dynamic leader not a tyrant.
Fascist leaders don't have to be tyrants. A free people don't play follow
the leader. And I don't buy into the Reagan worship, although when did
walk the walk of his talk it was about getting (government) out of the
way, not leading.
> I didn't say more credit I said replace the bad notes with realistic notes.
> That was improper credit on bogus terms. The housing market is essential to
> our economy. And what intervention of the government did you read into the
> post?
You want the government to step in and change contracts. Change to 30 yr
fixed loans. I don't think you understand how the fed fixes interest
rates and how the conversion you propose has to work.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794421 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 19:39 |
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celtex wrote:
>
> Just about everyone is talking about a "recession" except the
> government.
>
> Hell, I was listening in on a conference call where a very high level
> executive in a very large international corporation admitted that he
> foresaw a recession coming, if we weren't already in one. (the thing
> about recessions is, they're usually identified after the fact.)
>
> My point is, anyone who's in any way tapped into what's going on is
> talking about the R word. The failure of the administration to even
> acknowledge this is just unconscionable. If this is economic growth,
> I'd like to have less of it, please.
Twenty-four months of continuous economic growth and it took the Democrats
in Congress less than a year to fuck it up.
>
> nate
>
>
> The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
> somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually
> stimulates many segments of the economy, Fuel prices (#1 reason for
> downturn IMO), the stupid money crunch due to the insane lending
> practices of the home market, (by far more important than given
> credit for) and the continued harping by the Dems and press that the
> economy sucks.
The "insane lending practices" of which you speak were, in large part,
mandated by the government. Each lending institution had to have a
representative percentage of its loan portfolio in neighborhoods and to
people that no sane lender would engage.
> They need the leverage since the "Surge" is working in
> Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the existing loans to
> fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans, fuel no easy
> fix.
Fuel is no biggie. We pay less for gasoline in hours worked per gallon than
ever.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794425 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 20:00 |
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"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ZdudnX8IeY-4UCjanZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> In article <9Njtj.721$0M3.138 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
>> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:gfqdnT0NZI5iWSjanZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>> In article <khjtj.711$0M3.436 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
>>>
>>>> The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
>>>> somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually
>>>> stimulates
>>>> many segments of the economy,
>>>
>>> The war sucks capital and mis-allocates it. It causes the government to
>>> create more money destroying value in the money saved by people and
>>> businesses. The government always takes a cost off the top of any money
>>> it takes from one group to give or spend in another area. Basically,
>>> war
>>> kills economies in the long run. The free market could do much better
>>> with the money and material. Not to mention the loss of productive man
>>> hours wasted on war.
>>>
>>>> Fuel prices (#1 reason for downturn IMO)
>>>
>>> Due to the conditions of war and the lack of a free market. it's not
>>> like
>>> someone can just go build a refinery these days to profit from the high
>>> fuel prices by under-cutting the competition.
>>>
>>>>, the
>>>> stupid money crunch due to the insane lending practices of the home
>>>> market,
>>>> (by far more important than given credit for)
>>>
>>> It goes far deeper than that:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/chi.general/msg/f4e4470f49f72 6ea
>>>
>>>> and the continued harping by
>>>> the Dems and press that the economy sucks. They need the leverage since
>>>> the
>>>> "Surge" is working in Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the
>>>> existing loans to fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans,
>>>> fuel
>>>> no easy fix. W
>>>
>>> Fix government intervention with more government interventioN! Fix
>>> inflation with more inflation! fix too much credit with more credit! [at]
>>>
>>>> the decade" push. If we do that we'll go a long ways on killing several
>>>> birds with that one stone; Energy Independence. Which I like as a
>>>> campaign
>>>> slogan for the push. The money used to fuel the terrorist would dry up
>>>> and
>>>> the importance of the Middle east would soon go the way of the Vietnam
>>>> hysteria. Now if we had a leader that would exposes these goals and the
>>>> truly courageous will to act on them we would have a easy leader to
>>>> follow.
>>>
>>> Ahh yes, a strong leader, fascism. It's back in style.
>>>
>>
>> Fascism? Was Reagan a Fascist? I mean a strong, dynamic leader not a
>> tyrant.
>
> Fascist leaders don't have to be tyrants. A free people don't play follow
> the leader. And I don't buy into the Reagan worship, although when did
> walk the walk of his talk it was about getting (government) out of the
> way, not leading.
For fascism to work there needs to be a strong club behind the rulers. Only
then to fascist stay in power.
>> I didn't say more credit I said replace the bad notes with realistic
>> notes.
>> That was improper credit on bogus terms. The housing market is essential
>> to
>> our economy. And what intervention of the government did you read into
>> the
>> post?
>
> You want the government to step in and change contracts. Change to 30 yr
> fixed loans. I don't think you understand how the fed fixes interest
> rates and how the conversion you propose has to work.
>
Doesn't take the government to fix this the lenders and banks need to fix
it. They made the mess. And the stockholders don't need uninhabited
foreclosed properties in the portfolios.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794427 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 20:05 |
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In article <Viltj.738$0M3.447 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ZdudnX8IeY-4UCjanZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> In article <9Njtj.721$0M3.138 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
>>> "Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:gfqdnT0NZI5iWSjanZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>>>> In article <khjtj.711$0M3.436 [at] newsfe17.lga>, celtex wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The R word you talk about has some easily recognized causes. The war
>>>>> somewhat, thou the material production and employment, actually
>>>>> stimulates
>>>>> many segments of the economy,
>>>>
>>>> The war sucks capital and mis-allocates it. It causes the government to
>>>> create more money destroying value in the money saved by people and
>>>> businesses. The government always takes a cost off the top of any money
>>>> it takes from one group to give or spend in another area. Basically,
>>>> war
>>>> kills economies in the long run. The free market could do much better
>>>> with the money and material. Not to mention the loss of productive man
>>>> hours wasted on war.
>>>>
>>>>> Fuel prices (#1 reason for downturn IMO)
>>>>
>>>> Due to the conditions of war and the lack of a free market. it's not
>>>> like
>>>> someone can just go build a refinery these days to profit from the high
>>>> fuel prices by under-cutting the competition.
>>>>
>>>>>, the
>>>>> stupid money crunch due to the insane lending practices of the home
>>>>> market,
>>>>> (by far more important than given credit for)
>>>>
>>>> It goes far deeper than that:
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/chi.general/msg/f4e4470f49f72 6ea
>>>>
>>>>> and the continued harping by
>>>>> the Dems and press that the economy sucks. They need the leverage since
>>>>> the
>>>>> "Surge" is working in Iraq. The easy fix on the homes is to convert the
>>>>> existing loans to fixed 30 yrs no more foreclosures on the crap loans,
>>>>> fuel
>>>>> no easy fix. W
>>>>
>>>> Fix government intervention with more government interventioN! Fix
>>>> inflation with more inflation! fix too much credit with more credit! [at]
>>>>
>>>>> the decade" push. If we do that we'll go a long ways on killing several
>>>>> birds with that one stone; Energy Independence. Which I like as a
>>>>> campaign
>>>>> slogan for the push. The money used to fuel the terrorist would dry up
>>>>> and
>>>>> the importance of the Middle east would soon go the way of the Vietnam
>>>>> hysteria. Now if we had a leader that would exposes these goals and the
>>>>> truly courageous will to act on them we would have a easy leader to
>>>>> follow.
>>>>
>>>> Ahh yes, a strong leader, fascism. It's back in style.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Fascism? Was Reagan a Fascist? I mean a strong, dynamic leader not a
>>> tyrant.
>>
>> Fascist leaders don't have to be tyrants. A free people don't play follow
>> the leader. And I don't buy into the Reagan worship, although when did
>> walk the walk of his talk it was about getting (government) out of the
>> way, not leading.
>
> For fascism to work there needs to be a strong club behind the rulers. Only
> then to fascist stay in power.
Of course. The same club has been in power in the USA for decades more or
less.
>>> I didn't say more credit I said replace the bad notes with realistic
>>> notes.
>>> That was improper credit on bogus terms. The housing market is essential
>>> to
>>> our economy. And what intervention of the government did you read into
>>> the
>>> post?
>> You want the government to step in and change contracts. Change to 30 yr
>> fixed loans. I don't think you understand how the fed fixes interest
>> rates and how the conversion you propose has to work.
> Doesn't take the government to fix this the lenders and banks need to fix
> it. They made the mess. And the stockholders don't need uninhabited
> foreclosed properties in the portfolios.
Um government and federal reserve intervention created the mess. You
propose to fix it with more government and federal reserve intervention.
See the problem? (for the background see the articles I reference in the
post I pointed you to)
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794430 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 20:14 |
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In article <13rbn3m1h7oum69 [at] corp.supernews.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Twenty-four months of continuous economic growth and it took the Democrats
> in Congress less than a year to fuck it up.
Why do you say that?
For the past 2 years (of said growth) I've ended the year at a deficit
despite cutting spending all I can, and I've had to cash in investments
to get caught up.
It's been _anything_ but growth!
It's been a downward spiral that finally sped enough up so that you
noticed.
--
Peace, Om
"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have
come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
-- Mark Twain
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