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General » rec.autos.driving » Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites
| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794221] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 14:12 |
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On Feb 14, 5:48=A0am, Ted <tedor... [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 2:57=A0am, habe... [at] lycos.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 10:58=A0pm, "Iconoclast" <iconocl... [at] ecoweb.co.zw> wrote:
>
> > > I have heard about the websites below. =A0Check them
> > > out. =A0I personally vow that there are no circumstances under
> > > which I will vote for John McCain.
>
> > >http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
>
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://nowaymccain.com/
>
> > > As someone recently asked: ."Why aren't we all converging
> > > on the Capital with torches and pitchforks?" =A0"Years ago
> > > we were outraged at sex, today we're only a little miffed
> > > at wholesale invasion? How did we get here?"
>
> > And with no conception of the destruction occuring via immigration the
> > comatose masses march
> > off to the polls thinking they are doing something other than "beating
> > their meat."
>
> > Dennis
> > '
>
> The candidates McCain and Obama are manifestations of the philosophy
> of the late
> P.T. Barnum, founder the the American Circus. He claimed in essence,
> "that you will
> never lose money underestimating the publics taste."
>
> Ted
Isn't it enough to point out the significant shift from conservative-
but-reasonable to pandering to the extreme right wing that has
occurred between 2000 and 2008 without swiftboating the guy? enough,
please.
nate
/voted
//not for McCain or Obama, although either would be better than Bush
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794233 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 16:37 |
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In article <ef9ffc3e-cbe8-444f-955d-051eaec6c7f6 [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, N8N wrote:
> On Feb 14, 5:48 am, Ted <tedor... [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 14, 2:57 am, habe... [at] lycos.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 13, 10:58 pm, "Iconoclast" <iconocl... [at] ecoweb.co.zw> wrote:
>>
>> > > I have heard about the websites below. Check them
>> > > out. I personally vow that there are no circumstances under
>> > > which I will vote for John McCain.
>>
>> > >http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
>>
>> > > http://nowaymccain.com/
>>
>> > > As someone recently asked: ."Why aren't we all converging
>> > > on the Capital with torches and pitchforks?" "Years ago
>> > > we were outraged at sex, today we're only a little miffed
>> > > at wholesale invasion? How did we get here?"
>>
>> > And with no conception of the destruction occuring via immigration the
>> > comatose masses march
>> > off to the polls thinking they are doing something other than "beating
>> > their meat."
>>
>> > Dennis
>> > '
>>
>> The candidates McCain and Obama are manifestations of the philosophy
>> of the late
>> P.T. Barnum, founder the the American Circus. He claimed in essence,
>> "that you will
>> never lose money underestimating the publics taste."
>>
>> Ted
>
> Isn't it enough to point out the significant shift from conservative-
> but-reasonable to pandering to the extreme right wing that has
> occurred between 2000 and 2008 without swiftboating the guy? enough,
> please.
It's worse yet.... in 1983 McCain sounded like Ron Paul on intervention.
(as in don't do it)
McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is crazy. I
think there is actually something medically wrong with him. Listen to McCain
and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
Turgidson.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794241 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 17:37 |
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Brent P wrote:
>
> McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is crazy. I
> think there is actually something medically wrong with him. Listen to
> McCain
> and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
> worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
> Turgidson.
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794242 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 17:52 |
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In article <13r8rhfdknm2l7c [at] corp.supernews.com>, HeyBub wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>>
>> McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is crazy. I
>> think there is actually something medically wrong with him. Listen to
>> McCain
>> and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
>> worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
>> Turgidson.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that...
If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good thing.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794244 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 18:02 |
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"Brent P" <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b5ednfPYm73Z_SnanZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> In article
> <ef9ffc3e-cbe8-444f-955d-051eaec6c7f6 [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, N8N
> wrote:
>> On Feb 14, 5:48 am, Ted <tedor... [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Feb 14, 2:57 am, habe... [at] lycos.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Feb 13, 10:58 pm, "Iconoclast" <iconocl... [at] ecoweb.co.zw> wrote:
>>>
>>> > > I have heard about the websites below. Check them
>>> > > out. I personally vow that there are no circumstances under
>>> > > which I will vote for John McCain.
>>>
>>> > >http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
>>>
>>> > > http://nowaymccain.com/
>>>
>>> > > As someone recently asked: ."Why aren't we all converging
>>> > > on the Capital with torches and pitchforks?" "Years ago
>>> > > we were outraged at sex, today we're only a little miffed
>>> > > at wholesale invasion? How did we get here?"
>>>
>>> > And with no conception of the destruction occuring via immigration the
>>> > comatose masses march
>>> > off to the polls thinking they are doing something other than "beating
>>> > their meat."
>>>
>>> > Dennis
>>> > '
>>>
>>> The candidates McCain and Obama are manifestations of the philosophy
>>> of the late
>>> P.T. Barnum, founder the the American Circus. He claimed in essence,
>>> "that you will
>>> never lose money underestimating the publics taste."
>>>
>>> Ted
>>
>> Isn't it enough to point out the significant shift from conservative-
>> but-reasonable to pandering to the extreme right wing that has
>> occurred between 2000 and 2008 without swiftboating the guy? enough,
>> please.
>
> It's worse yet.... in 1983 McCain sounded like Ron Paul on intervention.
> (as in don't do it)
>
> McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is crazy. I
> think there is actually something medically wrong with him. Listen to
> McCain
> and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
> worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
> Turgidson.
Yeah, you are right, except while I honor his war record, I have always
regarded him as just plain dumb.
While I have spent the last 60 years voting for the lesser of the evils, in
2008 I am asked to vote for the lesser of two evil liberals. You bet! I'll
be checking out the TV schedule on election day.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794245 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 18:41 |
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I was personally acquainted with former POW Howard Dunn who died in
1998. Major Dunn (later Colonel) was a Marine F-4B pilot who was
shot down over North Vietnam in December 1965 and was a prisoner of the
North Vietnamese until his release in 1973. Howard Dunn considered John
McCain to have served honorably and to have followed the rules of
conduct for prisoners developed by the senior officer in captivity, Jim
Stockdale.
While people may disagree with the politics of Senator McCain, no one
should ever question his sacrifice to our country during his years of
captivity and no one should allow such things to be said in their
presence by anyone who was not themselves a prisoner.
Brent P wrote:
> In article <ef9ffc3e-cbe8-444f-955d-051eaec6c7f6 [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, N8N wrote:
>> On Feb 14, 5:48 am, Ted <tedor... [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Feb 14, 2:57 am, habe... [at] lycos.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 13, 10:58 pm, "Iconoclast" <iconocl... [at] ecoweb.co.zw> wrote:
>>>>> I have heard about the websites below. Check them
>>>>> out. I personally vow that there are no circumstances under
>>>>> which I will vote for John McCain.
>>>>> http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
>>>>> http://nowaymccain.com/
>>>>> As someone recently asked: ."Why aren't we all converging
>>>>> on the Capital with torches and pitchforks?" "Years ago
>>>>> we were outraged at sex, today we're only a little miffed
>>>>> at wholesale invasion? How did we get here?"
>>>> And with no conception of the destruction occuring via immigration the
>>>> comatose masses march
>>>> off to the polls thinking they are doing something other than "beating
>>>> their meat."
>>>> Dennis
>>>> '
>>> The candidates McCain and Obama are manifestations of the philosophy
>>> of the late
>>> P.T. Barnum, founder the the American Circus. He claimed in essence,
>>> "that you will
>>> never lose money underestimating the publics taste."
>>>
>>> Ted
>> Isn't it enough to point out the significant shift from conservative-
>> but-reasonable to pandering to the extreme right wing that has
>> occurred between 2000 and 2008 without swiftboating the guy? enough,
>> please.
>
> It's worse yet.... in 1983 McCain sounded like Ron Paul on intervention.
> (as in don't do it)
>
> McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is crazy. I
> think there is actually something medically wrong with him. Listen to McCain
> and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
> worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
> Turgidson.
>
>
>
--
Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794254 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 19:55 |
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In article <13r8vcdajgcsme2 [at] corp.supernews.com>, David T. Johnson wrote:
> I was personally acquainted with former POW Howard Dunn who died in
> 1998. Major Dunn (later Colonel) was a Marine F-4B pilot who was
> shot down over North Vietnam in December 1965 and was a prisoner of the
> North Vietnamese until his release in 1973. Howard Dunn considered John
> McCain to have served honorably and to have followed the rules of
> conduct for prisoners developed by the senior officer in captivity, Jim
> Stockdale.
>
> While people may disagree with the politics of Senator McCain, no one
> should ever question his sacrifice to our country during his years of
> captivity and no one should allow such things to be said in their
> presence by anyone who was not themselves a prisoner.
McCain didn't serve our country in 'nam* he served the same people** he
serves today. He's been richly rewarded for his service to them.
*(some people who were drafted or enlisted for the vietnam war feel they
were serving our country and that's fine, I don't knock them, but John
McCain certainly knew better (considering his father and grandfather) and
if he didn't then, he does now)
**Read "War is a Racket" By General S. Butler, USMC.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794256 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 20:25 |
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Brent P wrote:
>
> McCain didn't serve our country in 'nam* he served the same people** he
> serves today. He's been richly rewarded for his service to them.
John McCain didn't pass up a corrupt offer of early release from
captivity because he was being "richly rewarded" nor is money the reason
that people serve in the military.
--
Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794257 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 20:33 |
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Brent P wrote:
> In article <13r8rhfdknm2l7c [at] corp.supernews.com>, HeyBub wrote:
>> Brent P wrote:
>>>
>>> McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is
>>> crazy. I think there is actually something medically wrong with
>>> him. Listen to McCain
>>> and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
>>> worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
>>> Turgidson.
>>
>> Not that there's anything wrong with that...
>
> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
> thing.
Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it. Under the
Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters of sustained
economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less than a year to fuck it
up.
Bigger government? Well, yeah. The more soldiers you have in the field, the
more support folks you need back home.
More wars? For a while, yeah. There's a lot of folk out there that need
killin'.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794258 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 20:44 |
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In article <13r95fifv6p6p6a [at] corp.supernews.com>, David T. Johnson wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>>
>> McCain didn't serve our country in 'nam* he served the same people** he
>> serves today. He's been richly rewarded for his service to them.
>
> John McCain didn't pass up a corrupt offer of early release from
> captivity because he was being "richly rewarded" nor is money the reason
> that people serve in the military.
Did I say his money came from the military part of it? No.
The offer of early release doesn't even come into it. McCain is a CFR
globalist, plain and simple. He serves the interests that profit from
war. Hell, he wouldn't even stand up and stop waterboarding....
supposedly a victim of torture himself. He should know better than any
one the folly of intervention and war for profit but he stands up
promising a 100 years in Iraq and more war around the world.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794259 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 20:59 |
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In article <13r95ricjot411d [at] corp.supernews.com>, HeyBub wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <13r8rhfdknm2l7c [at] corp.supernews.com>, HeyBub wrote:
>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>>
>>>> McCain today, if not in the past is simply insane. The man is
>>>> crazy. I think there is actually something medically wrong with
>>>> him. Listen to McCain
>>>> and then watch Dr. Strangelove. McCain is a sick combination of the
>>>> worst qualties of Brig. General. Jack D. Ripper and General 'Buck'
>>>> Turgidson.
>>>
>>> Not that there's anything wrong with that...
>>
>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
>> thing.
>
> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it. Under the
> Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters of sustained
> economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less than a year to fuck it
> up.
If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are begining
to see that come apart now.
> Bigger government? Well, yeah. The more soldiers you have in the field, the
> more support folks you need back home.
Welcome back 70s stagflation. Massive inflation to pay for war. Trouble
is, the US is in much worse shape today and at the mercy of foreign
holders of dollars... well I suppose a good militarist and believer in
empire could just bomb them too. Empires always fall, and the american
empire will fall too for the same reasons other empires have fallen.
> More wars? For a while, yeah. There's a lot of folk out there that need
> killin'.
That sort of thing comes back and bites you. Of course some people like
being a bully, trouble is they are holding office and have been for
decades. Overthrowing governments, installing police states, torture, and
all the rest overseas if it doesn't inspire an ever growing number of
enemies to fight and do damage to the USA it will come back to the US and
fester and grow like a cancer from the very people who were doing it
overseas. We are already seeing it as the Bill of Rights is being
discarded and a police state rises in its place.
Take a man who's been busting into homes and running checkpoints in Iraq
and make him a cop here in the USA... all it does is bring that festering
cancer home. The US can't act like an empire overseas not expect it to
occur here at home. It will become your neighbors that 'need killin'.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794260 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 21:05 |
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"HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13r95ricjot411d [at] corp.supernews.com...
> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it. Under the
> Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters of sustained
> economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less than a year to fuck
> it up.
So how is it, exactly, that you think the Administration gets to
claim sole credit for every quarter of growth since Inauguration
Day 2001, but Congress takes the blame for anything going
bad right after coming into power? Are you under the impression
that both of these branches take turns at a big lever marked
"ECONOMY," and that any movement of that lever has an
immediate effect?
Bob M.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794269 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 22:14 |
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Bob Myers wrote:
> "HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:13r95ricjot411d [at] corp.supernews.com...
>
>> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it.
>> Under the Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters
>> of sustained economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less
>> than a year to fuck it up.
>
> So how is it, exactly, that you think the Administration gets to
> claim sole credit for every quarter of growth since Inauguration
> Day 2001, but Congress takes the blame for anything going
> bad right after coming into power? Are you under the impression
> that both of these branches take turns at a big lever marked
> "ECONOMY," and that any movement of that lever has an
> immediate effect?
>
Under Clinton, the economy took off when the GOP gained control of Congress
in 1992.
The Bush administration that proposed three tax cuts and the Republican
congress that passed them into law. We had 9-11 and the economy kept
chuggin' along. Then there was Katrina, a multi-billion dollar hit. And the
economy kept chuggin' along.
What's changed, in the last year, was control of Congress, and now the
economy's heaving and gasping. Maybe conincidence, maybe not.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794270 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 22:22 |
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Brent P wrote:
>>>
>>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
>>> thing.
>>
>> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it.
>> Under the Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters
>> of sustained economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less
>> than a year to fuck it up.
>
> If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
> creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are
> begining to see that come apart now.
To a conspiracy theorist, everything to which they're opposed is the result
of secret, backroom manipulation. There are any number of private studies
that confirm the economic growth. The money supply, M1, hasn't changed very
much is the past six years.
>
>> Bigger government? Well, yeah. The more soldiers you have in the
>> field, the more support folks you need back home.
>
> Welcome back 70s stagflation. Massive inflation to pay for war.
> Trouble is, the US is in much worse shape today and at the mercy of
> foreign holders of dollars... well I suppose a good militarist and
> believer in empire could just bomb them too. Empires always fall, and
> the american empire will fall too for the same reasons other empires
> have fallen.
Empires fall from without. No one has yet tested absolute hegemony. Let's
give world domination at try - it might eliminate war altogether!
>
>> More wars? For a while, yeah. There's a lot of folk out there that
>> need killin'.
>
> That sort of thing comes back and bites you. Of course some people
> like being a bully, trouble is they are holding office and have been
> for decades. Overthrowing governments, installing police states,
> torture, and all the rest overseas if it doesn't inspire an ever
> growing number of enemies to fight and do damage to the USA it will
> come back to the US and fester and grow like a cancer from the very
> people who were doing it overseas. We are already seeing it as the
> Bill of Rights is being discarded and a police state rises in its
> place.
You may be right, but I don't care. I don't care a LOT what the rest of the
world thinks. If their animus bestirs them to take action against us, bring
'em on! I got a big kick out of three guys with a .50 cal and a Toyoto
pickup attacking an Abrams. What a hoot!
>
> Take a man who's been busting into homes and running checkpoints in
> Iraq and make him a cop here in the USA... all it does is bring that
> festering cancer home. The US can't act like an empire overseas not
> expect it to occur here at home. It will become your neighbors that
> 'need killin'.
You may have a point there. Many do join the military for the opportunity to
kill people and destroy things. Therefore, wouldn't you rather have them
"over there" than "over here?" Put their killing instincts and desires to
good use.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794272 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 22:33 |
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"HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13r9boid8gluk2c [at] corp.supernews.com...
> Under Clinton, the economy took off when the GOP gained control of
> Congress in 1992.
How do you attribute this to GOP control of Congress,
though? Clinton was elected to his first term in 1992.
But the GOP did not take control of the House or Senate
until the 1994 mid-term election.
>
> The Bush administration that proposed three tax cuts and the Republican
> congress that passed them into law. We had 9-11 and the economy kept
> chuggin' along.
Huge increases in military expenditures tend to have that
effect.
> Then there was Katrina, a multi-billion dollar hit. And the economy kept
> chuggin' along.
Continued military expenditures, plus expenditures for
rebuilding.
Shall we talk about the number of manufacturing and support
jobs that left the country over this same period, or just keep
looking at "the economy" from the 40,000-feet-above view?
Bob M.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794275 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 22:48 |
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In article <13r9c7v5envvge8 [at] corp.supernews.com>, HeyBub wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it.
>>> Under the Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters
>>> of sustained economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less
>>> than a year to fuck it up.
>>
>> If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
>> creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are
>> begining to see that come apart now.
>
> To a conspiracy theorist, everything to which they're opposed is the result
> of secret, backroom manipulation. There are any number of private studies
> that confirm the economic growth. The money supply, M1, hasn't changed very
> much is the past six years.
It is no conspiracy that the way government numbers are calculated have
changed. http://www.shadowstats.com/ M1 is not all the money that exists.
Not even close. http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed49.html
Also you're wrong about M1 expansion. It's increased considerably since 2000.
http://www.dollardaze.org/blog/?p=215
Your lacking of information does not make a conspiracy theory.
>>> Bigger government? Well, yeah. The more soldiers you have in the
>>> field, the more support folks you need back home.
>>
>> Welcome back 70s stagflation. Massive inflation to pay for war.
>> Trouble is, the US is in much worse shape today and at the mercy of
>> foreign holders of dollars... well I suppose a good militarist and
>> believer in empire could just bomb them too. Empires always fall, and
>> the american empire will fall too for the same reasons other empires
>> have fallen.
> Empires fall from without. No one has yet tested absolute hegemony. Let's
> give world domination at try - it might eliminate war altogether!
Tyranny for all.
>>
>>> More wars? For a while, yeah. There's a lot of folk out there that
>>> need killin'.
>> That sort of thing comes back and bites you. Of course some people
>> like being a bully, trouble is they are holding office and have been
>> for decades. Overthrowing governments, installing police states,
>> torture, and all the rest overseas if it doesn't inspire an ever
>> growing number of enemies to fight and do damage to the USA it will
>> come back to the US and fester and grow like a cancer from the very
>> people who were doing it overseas. We are already seeing it as the
>> Bill of Rights is being discarded and a police state rises in its
>> place.
> You may be right, but I don't care. I don't care a LOT what the rest of the
> world thinks. If their animus bestirs them to take action against us, bring
> 'em on! I got a big kick out of three guys with a .50 cal and a Toyoto
> pickup attacking an Abrams. What a hoot!
Sick. Very sick. you better have one for yourself here at home you're
going to need it your vision of the world. Afterall, the government will
be pointing them at you.
>> Take a man who's been busting into homes and running checkpoints in
>> Iraq and make him a cop here in the USA... all it does is bring that
>> festering cancer home. The US can't act like an empire overseas not
>> expect it to occur here at home. It will become your neighbors that
>> 'need killin'.
> You may have a point there. Many do join the military for the opportunity to
> kill people and destroy things. Therefore, wouldn't you rather have them
> "over there" than "over here?" Put their killing instincts and desires to
> good use.
It's better not to make killing machines in the first place. They will
always come home.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794283 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 23:01 |
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:33:59 -0700, "Bob Myers"
<nospamplease [at] address.invalid> wrote:
>
>"HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:13r9boid8gluk2c [at] corp.supernews.com...
>> Under Clinton, the economy took off when the GOP gained control of
>> Congress in 1992.
>
>How do you attribute this to GOP control of Congress,
>though? Clinton was elected to his first term in 1992.
>But the GOP did not take control of the House or Senate
>until the 1994 mid-term election.
>
>>
>> The Bush administration that proposed three tax cuts and the Republican
>> congress that passed them into law. We had 9-11 and the economy kept
>> chuggin' along.
>
>Huge increases in military expenditures tend to have that
>effect.
Being sneak-attacked on the heart of our largest mainland
city, resulting in more deaths than Pearl Harbor, tends to cause an
increase in militray expenditures.
>
>> Then there was Katrina, a multi-billion dollar hit. And the economy kept
>> chuggin' along.
>
>Continued military expenditures, plus expenditures for
>rebuilding.
New Orleans is estimated to have had a population of ~ 500,000
pre-Katrina.
Estimates of aid either spent, appropirtaed, or reuqest, exceed 200
Billion dollars.
200,000,000,000 / 500,000 = $$ 400,000 aid PER RESIDENT, every man,
woman, and child.
WTF ????
>Shall we talk about the number of manufacturing and support
>jobs that left the country over this same period, or just keep
>looking at "the economy" from the 40,000-feet-above view?
Who promoted NAFTA ????? " In the United States, NAFTA was
able to secure passage after Bill Clinton made its passage a major
legislative priority in 1993."
Now let's talk about how the economy has ben steadily GROWING
since 2000, and only hesitated and then started to decline IN THE
RECENT PERIOD OF A DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS !!!!
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm [at] pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
|
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794284 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 23:14 |
|
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:59:41 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com
(Brent P) wrote:
>>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
>>> thing.
>>
>> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it. Under the
>> Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters of sustained
>> economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less than a year to fuck it
>> up.
>
>If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
>creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are begining
>to see that come apart now.
Oooooh. A gold bug. Would you give me 15,000 of your "worthless"
FRN's for a$20 gold piece? It's "real money", doncha know.
>
>> Bigger government? Well, yeah. The more soldiers you have in the field, the
>> more support folks you need back home.
>
>Welcome back 70s stagflation. Massive inflation to pay for war. Trouble
>is, the US is in much worse shape today and at the mercy of foreign
>holders of dollars... well I suppose a good militarist and believer in
>empire could just bomb them too. Empires always fall, and the american
>empire will fall too for the same reasons other empires have fallen.
More "Amerikan imperialism" eh? Well, Marx is dead. So is the USSR.
Maybe if you moved to Eurabia you could find solice until the
islamists cut your head off.
>
>> More wars? For a while, yeah. There's a lot of folk out there that need
>> killin'.
>
>That sort of thing comes back and bites you. Of course some people like
>being a bully, trouble is they are holding office and have been for
>decades. Overthrowing governments, installing police states, torture, and
>all the rest overseas if it doesn't inspire an ever growing number of
>enemies to fight and do damage to the USA it will come back to the US and
>fester and grow like a cancer from the very people who were doing it
>overseas. We are already seeing it as the Bill of Rights is being
>discarded and a police state rises in its place.
Oh, so you are losing your rights because you WANT to talk with
islamists? Maybe you will do good in Eurabia.
>
>Take a man who's been busting into homes and running checkpoints in Iraq
>and make him a cop here in the USA... all it does is bring that festering
>cancer home. The US can't act like an empire overseas not expect it to
>occur here at home. It will become your neighbors that 'need killin'.
Nah. Once Osama Obama gets in, he'll return the military to a "meals
on wheels" and "peacekeeping" operation and we'll all sit around and
sing kumbaya.
All you need is love. I'll stick with my AR-15.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794288 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 23:34 |
|
<.p.jm [at] see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:8pd9r3p9tbpkl8v5gr6eh0kh1cqsogbvv4 [at] 4ax.com...
> Who promoted NAFTA ?????
Glad you asked.
In 1993, NAFTA was passed by the Senate with 61 yea
votes (27 Democrats, 34 Republicans) to 38 nay (28
Democrats, 10 Republicans), with 1 Democrat not voting.
Passage in the House was by 234 (132 Republicans, 102
Democrats) in favor, and 200 (156 Democrats, 43
Republicans, 1 independent) against. The agreement itself
had been developed and then signed (in late 1992) under
the administration of George H. W. Bush.
George W. Bush, in 2001, said this with respect to his
father's treaty:
"We must affirm our commitment to complete negotiations
on the free trade area of the Americans by January, 2005.
Nothing we do [at the trade meeting] in Quebec will be more
important or have a greater long-term impact. It will make
our hemisphere the largest free trade area in the world,
encompassing 34 countries and 800 million people."
(Remarks to the OAS, April 17, 2001)
And during a press conference while still a candidate (Oct.
31, 2000, as reported by the AP):
Q: Would you pursue a hemispheric trade deal extending
the benefits of NAFTA to Central and South America and
the Caribbean?
A: My administration will foster democracy and level barriers
to trade. If elected, my goal will be free trade agreements
with all the nations of Latin America. We can do so in cooperation
with our NAFTA partners. We should also do so with Chile, and
Brazil and Argentina, the anchor states of Mercosur. We will also
work toward free trade with the smaller nations of Central
America and the Caribbean. We must be flexible because one-
size-fits-all negotiations are not always the answer. But the
ultimate goal will remain constant, free trade from northernmost
Canada to the tip of Cape Horn. In the near term, we will renew
trade preferences with the Andean nations - enacted in 1991,
and set to expire next year.
Bob M.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794290 ] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 23:48 |
|
..p.jm [at] see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:33:59 -0700, "Bob Myers"
> <nospamplease [at] address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:13r9boid8gluk2c [at] corp.supernews.com...
>>> Under Clinton, the economy took off when the GOP gained control of
>>> Congress in 1992.
>> How do you attribute this to GOP control of Congress,
>> though? Clinton was elected to his first term in 1992.
>> But the GOP did not take control of the House or Senate
>> until the 1994 mid-term election.
>>
>>> The Bush administration that proposed three tax cuts and the Republican
>>> congress that passed them into law. We had 9-11 and the economy kept
>>> chuggin' along.
>> Huge increases in military expenditures tend to have that
>> effect.
>
> Being sneak-attacked on the heart of our largest mainland
> city, resulting in more deaths than Pearl Harbor, tends to cause an
> increase in militray expenditures.
>
>>> Then there was Katrina, a multi-billion dollar hit. And the economy kept
>>> chuggin' along.
>> Continued military expenditures, plus expenditures for
>> rebuilding.
>
> New Orleans is estimated to have had a population of ~ 500,000
> pre-Katrina.
>
> Estimates of aid either spent, appropirtaed, or reuqest, exceed 200
> Billion dollars.
>
> 200,000,000,000 / 500,000 = $$ 400,000 aid PER RESIDENT, every man,
> woman, and child.
>
> WTF ????
>
There's a lot of middle men when it comes to re-construction. It's not
just the residents homes that would need re-building (Whats the average
house price in the US?), theres the damaged infrastructure.....roading,
power, water/sewer etc......there's all the business's that need
rebuilding.....and thats not even mentioning a better flood protection
scheme.
I don't think you will find many men, women and children that got a
$400,000 handout! Big business costs.....
>> Shall we talk about the number of manufacturing and support
>> jobs that left the country over this same period, or just keep
>> looking at "the economy" from the 40,000-feet-above view?
>
> Who promoted NAFTA ????? " In the United States, NAFTA was
> able to secure passage after Bill Clinton made its passage a major
> legislative priority in 1993."
>
> Now let's talk about how the economy has ben steadily GROWING
> since 2000, and only hesitated and then started to decline IN THE
> RECENT PERIOD OF A DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS !!!!
>
>
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794294 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 00:06 |
|
In article <61f9r3t83tv8ppa66c5mf6um8m7ab6ht4f [at] 4ax.com>, nc [at] gntbcr.com wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:59:41 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com
> (Brent P) wrote:
>
>>>> If you think "less jobs, bigger government, and more wars" is a good
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> Don't know about "less jobs" business - first I've heard of it. Under the
>>> Bush administration we had a record-breaking 24 quarters of sustained
>>> economic growth. It took the Democratic Congress less than a year to fuck it
>>> up.
>>
>>If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
>>creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are begining
>>to see that come apart now.
>
> Oooooh. A gold bug. Would you give me 15,000 of your "worthless"
> FRN's for a$20 gold piece? It's "real money", doncha know.
I see you're just another blow hard who has to resort to baseless
ridicule because he doesn't have any factual arguments to present.
>>> Bigger government? Well, yeah. The more soldiers you have in the field, the
>>> more support folks you need back home.
>>Welcome back 70s stagflation. Massive inflation to pay for war. Trouble
>>is, the US is in much worse shape today and at the mercy of foreign
>>holders of dollars... well I suppose a good militarist and believer in
>>empire could just bomb them too. Empires always fall, and the american
>>empire will fall too for the same reasons other empires have fallen.
> More "Amerikan imperialism" eh? Well, Marx is dead. So is the USSR.
> Maybe if you moved to Eurabia you could find solice until the
> islamists cut your head off.
See above.
>>> More wars? For a while, yeah. There's a lot of folk out there that need
>>> killin'.
>>That sort of thing comes back and bites you. Of course some people like
>>being a bully, trouble is they are holding office and have been for
>>decades. Overthrowing governments, installing police states, torture, and
>>all the rest overseas if it doesn't inspire an ever growing number of
>>enemies to fight and do damage to the USA it will come back to the US and
>>fester and grow like a cancer from the very people who were doing it
>>overseas. We are already seeing it as the Bill of Rights is being
>>discarded and a police state rises in its place.
> Oh, so you are losing your rights because you WANT to talk with
> islamists? Maybe you will do good in Eurabia.
See above.
>>Take a man who's been busting into homes and running checkpoints in Iraq
>>and make him a cop here in the USA... all it does is bring that festering
>>cancer home. The US can't act like an empire overseas not expect it to
>>occur here at home. It will become your neighbors that 'need killin'.
> Nah. Once Osama Obama gets in, he'll return the military to a "meals
> on wheels" and "peacekeeping" operation and we'll all sit around and
> sing kumbaya.
See above.
> All you need is love. I'll stick with my AR-15.
I guess that's one way to 'pay' for groceries, take them at the point of
a gun. The problem with that method is someone always has bigger or more
guns than you.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794301 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 00:26 |
|
In article <61f9r3t83tv8ppa66c5mf6um8m7ab6ht4f [at] 4ax.com>, nc [at] gntbcr.com wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:59:41 -0600, tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS [at] yahoo.com
> (Brent P) wrote:
>>If you believe government cooked numbers. Remove the bubble created by
>>creating money out of thin air and there isn't anything. We are begining
>>to see that come apart now.
>
> Oooooh. A gold bug. Would you give me 15,000 of your "worthless"
> FRN's for a$20 gold piece? It's "real money", doncha know.
On second thought, since you seem to think the federal reserve has done
such a fine job with regards to inflation, I'll give you face value in
federal reserve notes for any gold coins minted by the US mint that are
whole. (I don't care if they are in worn condition, just without hunks
missing or holes in them) That means a $5 federal reserve paper note with
old Abe's face on it for a pre-1933 US $5 gold coin. After all, you'll
have real circulating money that you can buy goods and services with and
I'll just have a hunk of metal that is only useful for melting down and
plating electical contacts, right? Isn't that what FDR did back in the
30s? Deal should be just as good today, right?
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794303 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 01:03 |
|
Bob Myers wrote:
>
> Shall we talk about the number of manufacturing and support
> jobs that left the country over this same period, or just keep
> looking at "the economy" from the 40,000-feet-above view?
>
It is good that manufacturing and support jobs have moved to areas that can
do them better.
Adam Smith demonstrated this in the 18th century.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794304 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 01:09 |
|
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:48:46 +1300, BrianNZ <brian [at] itnz.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>> New Orleans is estimated to have had a population of ~ 500,000
>> pre-Katrina.
>>
>> Estimates of aid either spent, appropirtaed, or reuqest, exceed 200
>> Billion dollars.
>>
>> 200,000,000,000 / 500,000 = $$ 400,000 aid PER RESIDENT, every man,
>> woman, and child.
>>
>> WTF ????
>>
>
>
>There's a lot of middle men when it comes to re-construction. It's not
>just the residents homes that would need re-building (Whats the average
>house price in the US?),
http://www.realestateabc.com/outlook/overall.htm
In the South - $ 173,000
Keep in mind, that's for houses plus the land. A LARGE pecentage of
displaced NO'rs are welfare cases who were in public housing to begin
with. 38,000 units. At an average of 3 heads / unit, that's ~ 20 %
of the population of the city. Now, of course, there's an element who
tries to claim that somehow thre's an obligation to rebuild as many
units as were destroyed - and that element claims ' if they're not
rebuilt at government expense, that's stealing from black people'.
Bullshit. They never OWNED those apartments that were being
GIVEN to them. The fact that they've been sucking the public tit in
them for generations does not make them 'owners', nor give them
'rights to a continued gift of their choosing, in the place and style
of their choosing'.
> theres the damaged infrastructure.....roading,
>power, water/sewer etc......there's all the business's that need
>rebuilding.....
Infrastructure is the government's task. Paying for
businesses to rebuild is not. That is what private insurance and
private investment is for. I do not want my government paying to
build bars, movie theaters, food stores, doctor's offices, or any
other private item.
>and thats not even mentioning a better flood protection
>scheme.
>
>I don't think you will find many men, women and children that got a
>$400,000 handout! Big business costs.....
I don't think the government is somehow responsible for
compensating everyone's storm losses, either.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm [at] pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
|
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794320 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 04:47 |
|
"HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13r9lmaidu7ve88 [at] corp.supernews.com...
> Bob Myers wrote:
>>
>> Shall we talk about the number of manufacturing and support
>> jobs that left the country over this same period, or just keep
>> looking at "the economy" from the 40,000-feet-above view?
>>
>
> It is good that manufacturing and support jobs have moved to areas that
> can do them better.
Cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to better, except
in terms of the short-term impact on your bottom line.
These days, though, that seems to be what a lot of
companies are chasing, likely to their long-term
detriment.
And it sure as hell isn't a good thing for the people in
THIS country who had those jobs before...
Bob M.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794369 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 13:40 |
|
Bob Myers wrote:
> "HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:13r9lmaidu7ve88 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>> Bob Myers wrote:
>>>
>>> Shall we talk about the number of manufacturing and support
>>> jobs that left the country over this same period, or just keep
>>> looking at "the economy" from the 40,000-feet-above view?
>>>
>>
>> It is good that manufacturing and support jobs have moved to areas
>> that can do them better.
>
> Cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to better, except
> in terms of the short-term impact on your bottom line.
> These days, though, that seems to be what a lot of
> companies are chasing, likely to their long-term
> detriment.
Cheaper (for the same quality) is better. Better quality (for the same
price) is better. Improvement on the bottom line is better than no
improvement.
Adam Smith contrasted a protected French cheese market to a protected
Italian wine market. When tariffs on both were eliminated, the Italians got
better and cheaper wine from France than they could make for themselves and
the French likewise benefited from better and cheaper Italian cheese.
Millions of French and Italian consumers benefited at the expense of a few
French cheese makers and even fewer Italian vintners.
>
> And it sure as hell isn't a good thing for the people in
> THIS country who had those jobs before...
Protecting the few at the expense of the many is not a good strategy.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794412 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 19:04 |
|
"HeyBub" <heybub [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13rb21q82ind552 [at] corp.supernews.com...
>>> It is good that manufacturing and support jobs have moved to areas
>>> that can do them better.
>>
>> Cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to better, except
>> in terms of the short-term impact on your bottom line.
>> These days, though, that seems to be what a lot of
>> companies are chasing, likely to their long-term
>> detriment.
>
> Cheaper (for the same quality) is better. Better quality (for the same
> price) is better. Improvement on the bottom line is better than no
> improvement.
Of course. But then, we're not getting "same or better
quality." Have you ever actually had to deal with an
outsourced/offshore support organization?
Bob M.
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| Re: Hanoi Juan McCain Websites [message #794422 ] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 19:44 |
|
Bob Myers wrote:
>>
>> Cheaper (for the same quality) is better. Better quality (for the
>> same price) is better. Improvement on the bottom line is better than
>> no improvement.
>
> Of course. But then, we're not getting "same or better
> quality." Have you ever actually had to deal with an
> outsourced/offshore support organization?
>
Surely you're not suggesting that domestic "customer service" is superior?
There's a Dilbert cartoon that starts off with him talking to his local DSL
tech:
Dilbert: "My email still works but web surfing doesn't. Every page comes
back as 'not found'."
The last panel shows Dilbert reclining on the couch with a cup of coffee
under the banner "Three hours later..."
Dilbert: "It's booting up now. Nope. Same problem."
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