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General » rec.autos.tech » gauge backlighting
| gauge backlighting [message #791240] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 01:41 |
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So I finally got the Ugly Truck reasonably in shape today... got a
camper shell off Craigslist, so I had to run a wire to the back of the
truck for the third brake light. I had some old gauges that I wanted to
install, along with a new trans temp gauge (I quite possibly be doing
some towing/somewhat heavy hauling with this truck) so I put those in as
well since I was in the groove. Ended up running to the grocery store
after I was all done...
I guess sometimes it is worth it to buy the expensive stuff. The oil
pressure and vacuum gauges I used were parts store "Sunpro" gauges, and
the trans. temp. gauge was VDO (only VDO apparently makes a trans. temp
gauge with a chrome bezel and white lettering/pointers.) I even popped
for the Auto Meter "bulb condoms" to make the backlighting match the
dash. Well the VDO gauge was perfectly legible, the Sunpro gauges...
not so much. I'd thought that I was having a hard time seeing them in
my old Stude because of the generator, old wiring, whatever... nope, the
backlighting in them just sucks, because the new VDO gauge right next to
them in the gauge panel is perfectly readable. I'm going to see if I
can find some 1816 bulbs (highest MSCD bulbs I could find in that
format) to see if it helps, but I may just end up sucking it up and
buying more VDO gauges. Grr.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791241 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 03:31 |
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Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> So I finally got the Ugly Truck reasonably in shape today... got a
> camper shell off Craigslist, so I had to run a wire to the back of the
> truck for the third brake light. I had some old gauges that I wanted to
> install, along with a new trans temp gauge (I quite possibly be doing
> some towing/somewhat heavy hauling with this truck) so I put those in as
> well since I was in the groove. Ended up running to the grocery store
> after I was all done...
>
> I guess sometimes it is worth it to buy the expensive stuff. The oil
> pressure and vacuum gauges I used were parts store "Sunpro" gauges, and
> the trans. temp. gauge was VDO (only VDO apparently makes a trans. temp
> gauge with a chrome bezel and white lettering/pointers.) I even popped
> for the Auto Meter "bulb condoms" to make the backlighting match the
> dash. Well the VDO gauge was perfectly legible, the Sunpro gauges...
> not so much. I'd thought that I was having a hard time seeing them in
> my old Stude because of the generator, old wiring, whatever... nope, the
> backlighting in them just sucks, because the new VDO gauge right next to
> them in the gauge panel is perfectly readable. I'm going to see if I
> can find some 1816 bulbs (highest MSCD bulbs I could find in that
> format) to see if it helps, but I may just end up sucking it up and
> buying more VDO gauges. Grr.
>
> nate
Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791244 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 05:38 |
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Pete C. wrote:
> Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
> burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
> apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
>
> http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
> http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
> http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
>
> Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
Do they dim down OK or just drop out?
I've got the same unit and was thinking about red LEDs. Then maybe doing
the dash over the same way.
--
Steve W.
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791248 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 12:31 |
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Pete C. wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>>So I finally got the Ugly Truck reasonably in shape today... got a
>>camper shell off Craigslist, so I had to run a wire to the back of the
>>truck for the third brake light. I had some old gauges that I wanted to
>>install, along with a new trans temp gauge (I quite possibly be doing
>>some towing/somewhat heavy hauling with this truck) so I put those in as
>>well since I was in the groove. Ended up running to the grocery store
>>after I was all done...
>>
>>I guess sometimes it is worth it to buy the expensive stuff. The oil
>>pressure and vacuum gauges I used were parts store "Sunpro" gauges, and
>>the trans. temp. gauge was VDO (only VDO apparently makes a trans. temp
>>gauge with a chrome bezel and white lettering/pointers.) I even popped
>>for the Auto Meter "bulb condoms" to make the backlighting match the
>>dash. Well the VDO gauge was perfectly legible, the Sunpro gauges...
>>not so much. I'd thought that I was having a hard time seeing them in
>>my old Stude because of the generator, old wiring, whatever... nope, the
>>backlighting in them just sucks, because the new VDO gauge right next to
>>them in the gauge panel is perfectly readable. I'm going to see if I
>>can find some 1816 bulbs (highest MSCD bulbs I could find in that
>>format) to see if it helps, but I may just end up sucking it up and
>>buying more VDO gauges. Grr.
>>
>>nate
>
>
> Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
> burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
> apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
>
> http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
> http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
> http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
>
> Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
Has anyone found LED "bulbs" that work with indirect gauge lighting? I
tried some on the Porsche and they were dimmer than the stock incandescents.
In fact, I've been pretty disappointed in all the LED products I've
tried; I bought some LED 1157 bulb "replacement" and they were
hopelessly dim from straight on and worse from an angle
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791249 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 12:32 |
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Steve W. wrote:
> Pete C. wrote:
>
>> Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
>> burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
>> apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
>>
>> http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
>> http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
>> http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
>>
>> Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
>
>
> Do they dim down OK or just drop out?
> I've got the same unit and was thinking about red LEDs. Then maybe doing
> the dash over the same way.
They dim, but not much. they pretty much stay at full brightness more
or less all the time. I have LED's on the Porsche (not the bulb
replacements, a full kit replacing the bulbs, "light guides" everything)
and they are fantastic in terms of actually being able to *see* the
gauges, but dimming is not so good.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791250 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 14:31 |
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"Steve W." wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
> > burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
> > apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
> >
> > http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
> > http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
> > http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
> >
> > Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
>
> Do they dim down OK or just drop out?
I wondered about that as well, but since I never change the dimming
level I figured it wouldn't matter anyway. As it turns out, they track
the brightness of the rest of the dash incandescents pretty well.
Those are the Digi-Key P/N 160-1734-5-ND White T1 1100MCD LEDs running
at about half their rated current with 1K ohm resistors P/N 1.0KEBK-ND.
> I've got the same unit and was thinking about red LEDs. Then maybe doing
> the dash over the same way.
You might have some issues if you went with a color like red. The
buttons and other display areas already have greenish color filters on
them since they were designed for the white/amber incandescents. With
the white LEDs which lean towards bluish, the radio buttons ended up
somewhat blue as you can see in the pictures, which works fine. With red
LEDs I'm not sure the results would be pleasing. Easy enough to
experiment though.
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791252 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 14:36 |
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Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Nate Nagel wrote:
> >
> >>So I finally got the Ugly Truck reasonably in shape today... got a
> >>camper shell off Craigslist, so I had to run a wire to the back of the
> >>truck for the third brake light. I had some old gauges that I wanted to
> >>install, along with a new trans temp gauge (I quite possibly be doing
> >>some towing/somewhat heavy hauling with this truck) so I put those in as
> >>well since I was in the groove. Ended up running to the grocery store
> >>after I was all done...
> >>
> >>I guess sometimes it is worth it to buy the expensive stuff. The oil
> >>pressure and vacuum gauges I used were parts store "Sunpro" gauges, and
> >>the trans. temp. gauge was VDO (only VDO apparently makes a trans. temp
> >>gauge with a chrome bezel and white lettering/pointers.) I even popped
> >>for the Auto Meter "bulb condoms" to make the backlighting match the
> >>dash. Well the VDO gauge was perfectly legible, the Sunpro gauges...
> >>not so much. I'd thought that I was having a hard time seeing them in
> >>my old Stude because of the generator, old wiring, whatever... nope, the
> >>backlighting in them just sucks, because the new VDO gauge right next to
> >>them in the gauge panel is perfectly readable. I'm going to see if I
> >>can find some 1816 bulbs (highest MSCD bulbs I could find in that
> >>format) to see if it helps, but I may just end up sucking it up and
> >>buying more VDO gauges. Grr.
> >>
> >>nate
> >
> >
> > Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
> > burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
> > apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
> >
> > http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
> > http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
> > http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
> >
> > Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
>
> Has anyone found LED "bulbs" that work with indirect gauge lighting? I
> tried some on the Porsche and they were dimmer than the stock incandescents.
>
> In fact, I've been pretty disappointed in all the LED products I've
> tried; I bought some LED 1157 bulb "replacement" and they were
> hopelessly dim from straight on and worse from an angle
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
> http://members.cox.net/njnagel
No problem at all on the radio buttons, indeed they are quite bright and
I'm running them at about half their rated current.
If you have a situation where the light guides are relying on side
output from and incandescent, I'd use surface mount chip LEDs and
arrange three of them standing up in a cluster facing outward to get the
correct light distribution.
If you're replacing larger bulbs like the 194s then just use the T1 LEDs
arranged the same way. All the LED specs are on the Digi-Key site, as
well as those for most incandescents, so it's pretty easy to compare the
MCD ratings.
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791253 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 14:39 |
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Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Steve W. wrote:
> > Pete C. wrote:
> >
> >> Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
> >> burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
> >> apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
> >>
> >> http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
> >> http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
> >> http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
> >>
> >> Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
> >
> >
> > Do they dim down OK or just drop out?
> > I've got the same unit and was thinking about red LEDs. Then maybe doing
> > the dash over the same way.
>
> They dim, but not much.
Not the ones I used. I thought that might be an issue, but it turns out
that they track the brightness of the rest of the incandescent dash
lighting just fine. The LEDs I used are rated 1100MCD at 20mA, and I'm
running them at about half power.
> they pretty much stay at full brightness more
> or less all the time. I have LED's on the Porsche (not the bulb
> replacements, a full kit replacing the bulbs, "light guides" everything)
> and they are fantastic in terms of actually being able to *see* the
> gauges, but dimming is not so good.
Sounds like those LED kits weren't designed very well.
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791257 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 16:39 |
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Pete C. wrote:
> "Steve W." wrote:
>> Pete C. wrote:
>>> Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
>>> burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
>>> apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
>>>
>>> http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
>>> http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
>>> http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
>>>
>>> Parts from http://www.digi-key.com
>> Do they dim down OK or just drop out?
>
> I wondered about that as well, but since I never change the dimming
> level I figured it wouldn't matter anyway. As it turns out, they track
> the brightness of the rest of the dash incandescents pretty well.
>
> Those are the Digi-Key P/N 160-1734-5-ND White T1 1100MCD LEDs running
> at about half their rated current with 1K ohm resistors P/N 1.0KEBK-ND.
>
>> I've got the same unit and was thinking about red LEDs. Then maybe doing
>> the dash over the same way.
>
> You might have some issues if you went with a color like red. The
> buttons and other display areas already have greenish color filters on
> them since they were designed for the white/amber incandescents. With
> the white LEDs which lean towards bluish, the radio buttons ended up
> somewhat blue as you can see in the pictures, which works fine. With red
> LEDs I'm not sure the results would be pleasing. Easy enough to
> experiment though.
Good to know they will dim. I usually cut the dash lights down a good
bit at night. I noticed the 1K dropping resistors. Looks like some more
things to play with...
--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791270 ] |
Mon, 03 March 2008 21:33 |
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On Mar 3, 8:36=A0am, "Pete C." <aux3.DO... [at] snet.net> wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> > Pete C. wrote:
> > > Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> > >>So I finally got the Ugly Truck reasonably in shape today... =A0got a
> > >>camper shell off Craigslist, so I had to run a wire to the back of the=
> > >>truck for the third brake light. =A0I had some old gauges that I wante=
d to
> > >>install, along with a new trans temp gauge (I quite possibly be doing
> > >>some towing/somewhat heavy hauling with this truck) so I put those in =
as
> > >>well since I was in the groove. =A0Ended up running to the grocery sto=
re
> > >>after I was all done...
>
> > >>I guess sometimes it is worth it to buy the expensive stuff. =A0The oi=
l
> > >>pressure and vacuum gauges I used were parts store "Sunpro" gauges, an=
d
> > >>the trans. temp. gauge was VDO (only VDO apparently makes a trans. tem=
p
> > >>gauge with a chrome bezel and white lettering/pointers.) =A0I even pop=
ped
> > >>for the Auto Meter "bulb condoms" to make the backlighting match the
> > >>dash. =A0Well the VDO gauge was perfectly legible, the Sunpro gauges..=
..
> > >>not so much. =A0I'd thought that I was having a hard time seeing them =
in
> > >>my old Stude because of the generator, old wiring, whatever... nope, t=
he
> > >>backlighting in them just sucks, because the new VDO gauge right next =
to
> > >>them in the gauge panel is perfectly readable. =A0I'm going to see if =
I
> > >>can find some 1816 bulbs (highest MSCD bulbs I could find in that
> > >>format) to see if it helps, but I may just end up sucking it up and
> > >>buying more VDO gauges. =A0Grr.
>
> > >>nate
>
> > > Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of t=
he
> > > burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing =
it
> > > apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
>
> > >http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
> > >http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
> > >http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
>
> > > Parts fromhttp://www.digi-key.com
>
> > Has anyone found LED "bulbs" that work with indirect gauge lighting? =A0=
I
> > tried some on the Porsche and they were dimmer than the stock incandesce=
nts.
>
> > In fact, I've been pretty disappointed in all the LED products I've
> > tried; I bought some LED 1157 bulb "replacement" and they were
> > hopelessly dim from straight on and worse from an angle
>
> > nate
>
> > --
> > replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
> >http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>
> No problem at all on the radio buttons, indeed they are quite bright and
> I'm running them at about half their rated current.
>
> If you have a situation where the light guides are relying on side
> output from and incandescent, I'd use surface mount chip LEDs and
> arrange three of them standing up in a cluster facing outward to get the
> correct light distribution.
>
> If you're replacing larger bulbs like the 194s then just use the T1 LEDs
> arranged the same way. All the LED specs are on the Digi-Key site, as
> well as those for most incandescents, so it's pretty easy to compare the
> MCD ratings.- Hide quoted text -
>
That's exactly what I did; I was using 194-format bulbs in the dash of
the Porsche and bought some that sound like you describe I think from
superbrightleds.com - they *were* red FWIW but the light output was
very disappointing.
for my current issue I found some 1816s at my FLAPS on my lunch hour,
I'll try those in place of the unlabeled bulbs in the Sunpro gauges
(they appear to be 53s or something similar) and see if they provide
acceptable lighting after dark.
nate
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| Re: gauge backlighting [message #791279 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:08 |
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N8N wrote:
> On Mar 3, 8:36 am, "Pete C." <aux3.DO... [at] snet.net> wrote:
>
>>Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>>>Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>>>>So I finally got the Ugly Truck reasonably in shape today... got a
>>>>>camper shell off Craigslist, so I had to run a wire to the back of the
>>>>>truck for the third brake light. I had some old gauges that I wanted to
>>>>>install, along with a new trans temp gauge (I quite possibly be doing
>>>>>some towing/somewhat heavy hauling with this truck) so I put those in as
>>>>>well since I was in the groove. Ended up running to the grocery store
>>>>>after I was all done...
>>
>>>>>I guess sometimes it is worth it to buy the expensive stuff. The oil
>>>>>pressure and vacuum gauges I used were parts store "Sunpro" gauges, and
>>>>>the trans. temp. gauge was VDO (only VDO apparently makes a trans. temp
>>>>>gauge with a chrome bezel and white lettering/pointers.) I even popped
>>>>>for the Auto Meter "bulb condoms" to make the backlighting match the
>>>>>dash. Well the VDO gauge was perfectly legible, the Sunpro gauges...
>>>>>not so much. I'd thought that I was having a hard time seeing them in
>>>>>my old Stude because of the generator, old wiring, whatever... nope, the
>>>>>backlighting in them just sucks, because the new VDO gauge right next to
>>>>>them in the gauge panel is perfectly readable. I'm going to see if I
>>>>>can find some 1816 bulbs (highest MSCD bulbs I could find in that
>>>>>format) to see if it helps, but I may just end up sucking it up and
>>>>>buying more VDO gauges. Grr.
>>
>>>>>nate
>>
>>>>Go LED. Much brighter, cooler and last about forever. I got tired of the
>>>>burned out button lighting on the radio in my truck and after tearing it
>>>>apart, I replaced the burned out incandescents with white LEDs.
>>
>>>>http://wpnet.us/radio/guts.jpg
>>>>http://wpnet.us/radio/closeup.jpg
>>>>http://wpnet.us/radio/display.jpg
>>
>>>>Parts fromhttp://www.digi-key.com
>>
>>>Has anyone found LED "bulbs" that work with indirect gauge lighting? I
>>>tried some on the Porsche and they were dimmer than the stock incandescents.
>>
>>>In fact, I've been pretty disappointed in all the LED products I've
>>>tried; I bought some LED 1157 bulb "replacement" and they were
>>>hopelessly dim from straight on and worse from an angle
>>
>>>nate
>>
>>>--
>>>replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
>>>http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>>
>>No problem at all on the radio buttons, indeed they are quite bright and
>>I'm running them at about half their rated current.
>>
>>If you have a situation where the light guides are relying on side
>>output from and incandescent, I'd use surface mount chip LEDs and
>>arrange three of them standing up in a cluster facing outward to get the
>>correct light distribution.
>>
>>If you're replacing larger bulbs like the 194s then just use the T1 LEDs
>>arranged the same way. All the LED specs are on the Digi-Key site, as
>>well as those for most incandescents, so it's pretty easy to compare the
>>MCD ratings.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
>
> That's exactly what I did; I was using 194-format bulbs in the dash of
> the Porsche and bought some that sound like you describe I think from
> superbrightleds.com - they *were* red FWIW but the light output was
> very disappointing.
>
> for my current issue I found some 1816s at my FLAPS on my lunch hour,
> I'll try those in place of the unlabeled bulbs in the Sunpro gauges
> (they appear to be 53s or something similar) and see if they provide
> acceptable lighting after dark.
>
> nate
Followup: the 1816s did improve the lighting, but the design of the
Sunpro gauges is simply inferior to the VDO. Now I think the bulbs are
roughly comparable (the 1816 draws 4.29W while the 158 used in the VDO
gauges draws 3.36W; the bulbs originally in the Sunpro gauges were
unmarked but look like a 53 and were pretty dim) but the VDO gauge has
an extra reflector behind the bezel to deflect more light onto the face
of the gauge, while the Sunpro gauges do not - so when you look at them
at an angle (say, when they're mounted in an under dash gauge panel) you
see a bright crescent of light at the edge of the gauge but the face
still isn't as well illuminated. Plus the 1816 is simply the brightest
bulb I could find in that format; the 158 in the VDO gauges could easily
be replaced with, say, a 194 or W5W if I needed to make it brighter
relative to the dash panel so that I could dim the dash panel to a
comfortable level and still have the auxiliary gauges legible.
Lesson learned; next time I'll spend the extra $10-20 a gauge to get the
VDO. I figured "hey, it's just an old work truck, cheap gauges will be
fine" but sometimes nice stuff really is worth it.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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