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Motorcycles » uk.rec.motorcycles » Back brake problem
| Back brake problem [message #787984] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 18:57 |
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Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
disc. I've tried adjusting the lever height, I've bled it right through
with fresh fluid using both nipples on the caliper and even gone as far
as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around that was the correct
length. Still the pedal needs to be depressed quite a way before the
brake works, but when it does eventally work there's no sponginess to it
at all.
I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
brake work.
Come on, what's up with it?
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #787993 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:18 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
>
> The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> disc. I've tried adjusting the lever height, I've bled it right through
> with fresh fluid using both nipples on the caliper and even gone as far
> as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around that was the correct
> length. Still the pedal needs to be depressed quite a way before the
> brake works, but when it does eventally work there's no sponginess to it
> at all.
>
> I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> brake work.
>
> Come on, what's up with it?
My favorite hobby-horse: did you (or someone else) fit the piston seals
the wrong way round? That is-- _if_ they have a trapezoidal cross section
rather than rectangular, there is a right and a wrong way to insert them.
Other than that, I have no idea. How far back the pistons retract should
have nothing whatsoever to do with the master cylinder, since they should
'ratchet' to the proper position.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000A-13 '81 CM400T
OMF #7
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788000 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:26 |
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Mark Olson says...
> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> > Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
> >
> > The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> > disc.
<snip>
> > Come on, what's up with it?
>
> My favorite hobby-horse: did you (or someone else) fit the piston seals
> the wrong way round? That is-- _if_ they have a trapezoidal cross section
> rather than rectangular, there is a right and a wrong way to insert them.
Bandit caliper seals are rectangular, you can't get them wrong.
> Other than that, I have no idea. How far back the pistons retract should
> have nothing whatsoever to do with the master cylinder, since they should
> 'ratchet' to the proper position.
If the pistons retract a long way, then you'll need more lever movement
to engage the pads next time round. Stands to reason, dunnit?
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788003 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:40 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> brake work.
>
> Come on, what's up with it?
My guess is to clean the master cylinder out and / or check it's seals.
Is it adjustable, as in the pushrod length?
--
<insert coin to play>
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788004 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:35 |
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Muck says...
> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> > the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> > released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> > brake work.
> >
> > Come on, what's up with it?
>
> My guess is to clean the master cylinder out and / or check it's seals.
> Is it adjustable, as in the pushrod length?
Already tried adjusting the pushrod, it makes no difference to the pedal
travel, it just adjusts the pedal height. I'm wondering if one of the
holes in the m/cylinder is blocked, maybe a clean out is in order.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788006 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:38 |
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In article <MPG.1f2874cd15061d53989681 [at] news.individual.net>, Lozzo
says...
> I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> brake work.
Mechanically, no idea, but you could get round the problem by having an
inch thick spaz shoe made up for your right foot.
HTH
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788009 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:40 |
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ginge says...
> In article <MPG.1f2874cd15061d53989681 [at] news.individual.net>, Lozzo
> says...
> > I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> > the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> > released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> > brake work.
>
> Mechanically, no idea, but you could get round the problem by having an
> inch thick spaz shoe made up for your right foot.
I want it sorting because it's difficult to use the rear brake when
wearing MX boots. Lack of ankle flex in the boots means the rear brake
is redundant at the moment, and I do use it round town and on slippery
surfaces when it works.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788013 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:47 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> Muck says...
> > Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> > > the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> > > released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> > > brake work.
> > >
> > > Come on, what's up with it?
> >
> > My guess is to clean the master cylinder out and / or check it's seals.
> > Is it adjustable, as in the pushrod length?
>
> Already tried adjusting the pushrod, it makes no difference to the pedal
> travel, it just adjusts the pedal height. I'm wondering if one of the
> holes in the m/cylinder is blocked, maybe a clean out is in order.
I notice that the manual says that there are cup seals on the master
cylinder rear piston, maybe one has turned the wrong way round, and / or
worn?
--
<insert coin to play>
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788014 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:47 |
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Muck says...
> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> > Muck says...
> > > Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> > > > Come on, what's up with it?
> > >
> > > My guess is to clean the master cylinder out and / or check it's seals.
> > > Is it adjustable, as in the pushrod length?
> >
> > Already tried adjusting the pushrod, it makes no difference to the pedal
> > travel, it just adjusts the pedal height. I'm wondering if one of the
> > holes in the m/cylinder is blocked, maybe a clean out is in order.
>
> I notice that the manual says that there are cup seals on the master
> cylinder rear piston, maybe one has turned the wrong way round, and / or
> worn?
I'd just go buy a used m/cylinder from a much later bike. They're cheap
enough.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788015 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:48 |
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Lozzo wrote
>Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
>
>The Bindit rear brake
>Come on, what's up with it?
Dunno but I have just spent the afternoon catching rays and doing the
deeds that need doing to be able say that my not quite as Bloo as it
used to be Bloo GS does, as promised, now sport a braided steel front
brake hose and the whole episode was entirely painless and issue free.
except when I leaned back to admire my handiwork and forgot about the
cactus.
Maybe it is tired piston seals, they should only give a bit to allow the
pad to just come off the disk and no more.
--
steve auvache
i rate dates
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788017 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 19:57 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> > I notice that the manual says that there are cup seals on the master
> > cylinder rear piston, maybe one has turned the wrong way round, and / or
> > worn?
>
> I'd just go buy a used m/cylinder from a much later bike. They're cheap
> enough.
Yeh, that would work too. :)
--
<insert coin to play>
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788025 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 20:04 |
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Muck says...
> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > I notice that the manual says that there are cup seals on the master
> > > cylinder rear piston, maybe one has turned the wrong way round, and / or
> > > worn?
> >
> > I'd just go buy a used m/cylinder from a much later bike. They're cheap
> > enough.
>
> Yeh, that would work too. :)
I just did an online search to see what models were fitted with that
m/cylinder. Talk about parts bin specials - it fits 43 different Suzuki
models from 1988 up to 2004. Well, that makes sourcing a recent one a
whole lot easier.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788045 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:17 |
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"Lozzo" <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f287bb5e7ea37f4989682 [at] news.individual.net...
> Mark Olson says...
>> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>> > Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
>> >
>> > The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
>> > disc.
> <snip>
>
>> > Come on, what's up with it?
>>
>> My favorite hobby-horse: did you (or someone else) fit the piston seals
>> the wrong way round? That is-- _if_ they have a trapezoidal cross
>> section
>> rather than rectangular, there is a right and a wrong way to insert them.
>
> Bandit caliper seals are rectangular, you can't get them wrong.
>
>> Other than that, I have no idea. How far back the pistons retract should
>> have nothing whatsoever to do with the master cylinder, since they should
>> 'ratchet' to the proper position.
>
> If the pistons retract a long way, then you'll need more lever movement
> to engage the pads next time round. Stands to reason, dunnit?
It does, but what could make the pistons retract? There isn't anything
interfering with the last bit of movement when you operate the lever is
there? I'm thinking along the lines of the anti-rattle "clip". Also, is the
part of the caliper where the pad sits smooth? If there's a burr on the
caliper or the pad edge, it could be just enough to stop the pad "sitting"
and allowing it to slide back to a more comfortable position.
That's all I can think of anyroad.
--
Beav
VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788047 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:22 |
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Lozzo wrote:
> The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> disc. I've tried adjusting the lever height, I've bled it right through
> with fresh fluid using both nipples on the caliper and even gone as far
> as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around that was the correct
> length. Still the pedal needs to be depressed quite a way before the
> brake works, but when it does eventally work there's no sponginess to it
> at all.
Forgive my perhaps obvious suggestion:
possibly the pads are worn?
--
Matt Chapter
DoD #2225
'76 CB400F '86 R65
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788048 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:31 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> I just did an online search to see what models were fitted with that
> m/cylinder. Talk about parts bin specials - it fits 43 different Suzuki
> models from 1988 up to 2004. Well, that makes sourcing a recent one a
> whole lot easier.
That's well worth knowing. What I'm trying to find out at the moment, is
what points and condenser my 1969 CD90 takes.
--
<insert coin to play>
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788049 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:51 |
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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:57:35 +0100, Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>Come on, what's up with it?
If you're open to wild guesses:
guess number one is that the disc is slightly warped or loose, causing
the pads to get knocked back;
guess number two is that the seals have stuck to the pistons, rather
than letting them slide out to lake up wear;
guess number three (very unlikely) is that there's some sort of
blockage, and when the master piston returns under spring pressure it
draws the pads back.
--
-Pip
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788050 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:44 |
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Matt Chapter says...
> Lozzo wrote:
>
> > The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> > disc. I've tried adjusting the lever height, I've bled it right through
> > with fresh fluid using both nipples on the caliper and even gone as far
> > as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around that was the correct
> > length. Still the pedal needs to be depressed quite a way before the
> > brake works, but when it does eventally work there's no sponginess to it
> > at all.
>
> Forgive my perhaps obvious suggestion:
>
> possibly the pads are worn?
New pads less than 2000 miles ago, and I've hardly touched the rear
brake becauise it's awkward to operate. They are barely worn in.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788051 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:44 |
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Muck says...
> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I just did an online search to see what models were fitted with that
> > m/cylinder. Talk about parts bin specials - it fits 43 different Suzuki
> > models from 1988 up to 2004. Well, that makes sourcing a recent one a
> > whole lot easier.
>
> That's well worth knowing. What I'm trying to find out at the moment, is
> what points and condenser my 1969 CD90 takes.
Same as any early 6V C90 I'd have thought.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788052 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:53 |
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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:51:23 GMT, Pip Luscher
<pips.computer [at] spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk> wrote:
>guess number two is that the seals have stuck to the pistons, rather
>than letting them slide out to lake up wear;
FFS! "lake up wear"?
It's not even as if the keys are adjacent!
--
-Pip
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788053 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:48 |
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Beav says...
>
> "Lozzo" <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote
> > If the pistons retract a long way, then you'll need more lever movement
> > to engage the pads next time round. Stands to reason, dunnit?
>
> It does, but what could make the pistons retract? There isn't anything
> interfering with the last bit of movement when you operate the lever is
> there? I'm thinking along the lines of the anti-rattle "clip". Also, is the
> part of the caliper where the pad sits smooth? If there's a burr on the
> caliper or the pad edge, it could be just enough to stop the pad "sitting"
> and allowing it to slide back to a more comfortable position.
>
> That's all I can think of anyroad.
If the pads were sticking in the caliper then they wouldn't retract as
far as they do. Everything is fine with the pad clearances, but the
pistons retract a long way, and when the pedal is depressed it takes a
lot of travel before the pistons push the pads into contact with the
disc.
New m/cyl is the first choice, then maybe a used caliper if that doesn't
work. Either way, I won't let it beat me.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788054 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:50 |
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Pip Luscher says...
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:57:35 +0100, Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Come on, what's up with it?
>
> If you're open to wild guesses:
>
> guess number one is that the disc is slightly warped or loose, causing
> the pads to get knocked back;
It does this when staionary.
> guess number two is that the seals have stuck to the pistons, rather
> than letting them slide out to lake up wear;
I've pumped the pistons almost right out to clean them, and they move
freely within the seals.
> guess number three (very unlikely) is that there's some sort of
> blockage, and when the master piston returns under spring pressure it
> draws the pads back.
This sounds most likely. As I said, it'll be easier for me to source a
newer used m/cyl than piss around trying to repair the 60K mile old one
I have.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788056 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:49 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> Muck says...
> > Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I just did an online search to see what models were fitted with that
> > > m/cylinder. Talk about parts bin specials - it fits 43 different Suzuki
> > > models from 1988 up to 2004. Well, that makes sourcing a recent one a
> > > whole lot easier.
> >
> > That's well worth knowing. What I'm trying to find out at the moment, is
> > what points and condenser my 1969 CD90 takes.
>
> Same as any early 6V C90 I'd have thought.
It's looking that way, yes. I like to go into a shop armed with some
info about the part I want to buy. Can save time and money.
--
<insert coin to play>
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788057 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:54 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> Mark Olson says...
> > Other than that, I have no idea. How far back the pistons retract should
> > have nothing whatsoever to do with the master cylinder, since they should
> > 'ratchet' to the proper position.
>
> If the pistons retract a long way, then you'll need more lever movement
> to engage the pads next time round. Stands to reason, dunnit?
Certainly that is true, and now I see how my statement could be
misinterpreted. What I meant to point out is, the extra required travel
at the master cylinder is no fault of the M/C, since it has no influence
over how far the pistons retract. When the pistons retract, the M/C's
relief port is uncovered, so there's no suction pulling them back, nor
is there pressure. The seals are exerting the pressure that pulls the
pistons back.
But I'm sure you knew that. Let us know if a new M/C solves it, somehow.
I think the only explanation for excessive retraction is that the seals
are hanging up on the pistons and not sliding freely, stretching them
past how far they would normally extend before slipping on the pistons.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000A-13 '81 CM400T
OMF #7
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788059 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 21:55 |
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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:51:23 GMT,
Pip Luscher <pips.computer [at] spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk>
wrote in <bk2tb2ljqvn0tg8juhpv9m9509ls07elq9 [at] 4ax.com>:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:57:35 +0100, Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>>Come on, what's up with it?
> guess number two is that the seals have stuck to the pistons, rather
> than letting them slide out to lake up wear;
Loz, have you tried jamming the pedal in full-on position overnight?
This may overcome such stickiness as Master Pip surmises.
--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid [at] [brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788060 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 22:01 |
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Dr Ivan D. Reid says...
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:51:23 GMT,
> Pip Luscher <pips.computer [at] spammers.foad.ntlworld.co.uk>
> wrote in <bk2tb2ljqvn0tg8juhpv9m9509ls07elq9 [at] 4ax.com>:
> > On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:57:35 +0100, Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >>Come on, what's up with it?
>
> > guess number two is that the seals have stuck to the pistons, rather
> > than letting them slide out to lake up wear;
>
> Loz, have you tried jamming the pedal in full-on position overnight?
> This may overcome such stickiness as Master Pip surmises.
I will try tonight. Anything free is worth a go.
Thanks
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788061 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 22:01 |
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Mark Olson wrote
>I think the only explanation for excessive retraction is that the seals
>are hanging up on the pistons and not sliding freely, stretching them
>past how far they would normally extend before slipping on the pistons.
That's the puppy.
--
steve auvache
i rate dates
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788073 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 22:26 |
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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:57:35 +0100, Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
>
>The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
>disc. I've tried adjusting the lever height, I've bled it right through
>with fresh fluid using both nipples on the caliper and even gone as far
>as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around that was the correct
>length. Still the pedal needs to be depressed quite a way before the
>brake works, but when it does eventally work there's no sponginess to it
>at all.
>
>I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
>the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
>released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
>brake work.
>
>Come on, what's up with it?
Back brakes are for poofs.
hth
--
Champ
ZX10R
GPz750turbo
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788083 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 23:00 |
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Champ says...
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:57:35 +0100, Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
> >
> >The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> >disc.
> >Come on, what's up with it?
>
> Back brakes are for poofs.
>
> hth
Thank you, darling ;-)
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788085 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 23:03 |
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Lozzo formulated on Wednesday :
>> guess number three (very unlikely) is that there's some sort of
>> blockage, and when the master piston returns under spring pressure it
>> draws the pads back.
>
> This sounds most likely. As I said, it'll be easier for me to source a
> newer used m/cyl than piss around trying to repair the 60K mile old one
> I have.
Have you thought of applying the brake then clamping the flexible hose
(assuming it can be clamped) with it still applied, then releasing the
brake lever? Keep the clamp on for a while, then release slowly.
It might just help prove whether it is the master cylinder pulling the
slave back, it should settle its internal pressures with the clamp in
place.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788090 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 23:06 |
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Harry Bloomfield says...
> Lozzo formulated on Wednesday :
> >> guess number three (very unlikely) is that there's some sort of
> >> blockage, and when the master piston returns under spring pressure it
> >> draws the pads back.
> >
> > This sounds most likely. As I said, it'll be easier for me to source a
> > newer used m/cyl than piss around trying to repair the 60K mile old one
> > I have.
>
> Have you thought of applying the brake then clamping the flexible hose
> (assuming it can be clamped) with it still applied, then releasing the
> brake lever? Keep the clamp on for a while, then release slowly.
>
> It might just help prove whether it is the master cylinder pulling the
> slave back, it should settle its internal pressures with the clamp in
> place.
I fitted Goodridge to the rear to try and cure it. I'm not refitting the
rubber hose.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788091 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 23:08 |
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Harry Bloomfield <harry.m1bytNOSPAM [at] tiscali.co.uk> wrote in
news:mn.9d2b7d67a00b2a2c.8412 [at] tiscali.co.uk:
> Lozzo formulated on Wednesday :
>>> guess number three (very unlikely) is that there's some sort of
>>> blockage, and when the master piston returns under spring pressure it
>>> draws the pads back.
>>
>> This sounds most likely. As I said, it'll be easier for me to source a
>> newer used m/cyl than piss around trying to repair the 60K mile old one
>> I have.
>
> Have you thought of applying the brake then clamping the flexible hose
> (assuming it can be clamped) with it still applied, then releasing the
> brake lever? Keep the clamp on for a while, then release slowly.
>
<cough>
"and even gone as far as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around"
</c>
--
wessie at tesco dot net
BMW R1150GS
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788128 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 22:33 |
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On Wednesday 19 July 2006 17:57, Lozzo [lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk] wrote in message
<MPG.1f2874cd15061d53989681 [at] news.individual.net>
> Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
>
> The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> disc. I've tried adjusting the lever height, I've bled it right through
> with fresh fluid using both nipples on the caliper and even gone as far
> as fitting a Goodridge line I had kicking around that was the correct
> length. Still the pedal needs to be depressed quite a way before the
> brake works, but when it does eventally work there's no sponginess to it
> at all.
>
> I've stuck my head down and looked at the pads/pistons while pressing
> the lever, and they come back a hell of a long way when the lever is
> released, which means I have to press the pedal a long way to make the
> brake work.
Check the reservoir breather isn't blocked, the diaphragm isn't fully
stretched (and so sucking the pistons back) and if it aint them then maybe
the master cylinder needs stripping and cleaning.
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788135 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 00:53 |
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"Lozzo" <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f289cc8f96bf49298968a [at] news.individual.net...
> Beav says...
>>
>> "Lozzo" <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote
>
>> > If the pistons retract a long way, then you'll need more lever movement
>> > to engage the pads next time round. Stands to reason, dunnit?
>>
>> It does, but what could make the pistons retract? There isn't anything
>> interfering with the last bit of movement when you operate the lever is
>> there? I'm thinking along the lines of the anti-rattle "clip". Also, is
>> the
>> part of the caliper where the pad sits smooth? If there's a burr on the
>> caliper or the pad edge, it could be just enough to stop the pad
>> "sitting"
>> and allowing it to slide back to a more comfortable position.
>>
>> That's all I can think of anyroad.
>
> If the pads were sticking in the caliper then they wouldn't retract as
> far as they do.
I was meaning that they coud be having a problem being pushed far enough to
overcome any errant burr and the burr is "helping" them go back to thir
original (and too far back) position, but if there aren't any obvious
problems, it's not that.
Everything is fine with the pad clearances, but the
> pistons retract a long way, and when the pedal is depressed it takes a
> lot of travel before the pistons push the pads into contact with the
> disc.
>
> New m/cyl is the first choice,
And the cheapest I'd guess. It's where I'd look after inspecting the caliper
itself and finding nowt wrong.
then maybe a used caliper if that doesn't
> work. Either way, I won't let it beat me.
'Kin brakes are becoming the bane of my fucking life this week too. I've
just fitted new Brembo discs and pads to the boy's Evo coz they were
squealing like a stuck pig every time he even looked at the pedal.
They're *still* fucking squealing too, the cunts. Off with the new pads and
a quick once over on the edges with 180 paper and a cunting splinter off the
pads is now embedded in my thumb. Judicious use of copper slip on the
anti-squeal shims did fuck all for "light" braking, but they stopped hurting
my ears with hard braking. They won't beat me either, but they're having a
fucking good go.
And my garage roof still isn't finished and it's threatening thunderstorms
tonight. Fucking marvelous.
--
Beav
VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788173 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 09:20 |
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Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote in
news:MPG.1f289cc8f96bf49298968a [at] news.individual.net:
> New m/cyl is the first choice
Did anyone else read this as "New motorcycle"? It's what I would do.
Jeremy
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788179 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 09:33 |
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Champ wrote:
>
> Back brakes are for poofs.
>
> hth
TFFT. I had read 31 posts in this thread and was beginning to wonder
if someone was ever going to state the obvious.
--
Chris
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788196 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 11:01 |
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Jeremy Mortimer says...
> Lozzo <lozzo [at] lozzo.org.uk> wrote in
> news:MPG.1f289cc8f96bf49298968a [at] news.individual.net:
>
> > New m/cyl is the first choice
>
> Did anyone else read this as "New motorcycle"? It's what I would do.
Nah, it's only got 60,000 miles on it. There's plenty of life left in
the old dog yet.
--
Lozzo
GSX-R1000 K1
GSF600SW
"Loz has a god, and this god of his has 16 valves" (tm) Pip, May '06
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788215 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 11:44 |
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Lozzo wrote:
> Not so much of a problem as a niggle.
>
> The Bindit rear brake has excessive travel before the pads engage the
> disc.
> Come on, what's up with it?
Dunno what's up with it, Loz, but my 23000 mile B12 (K1) is just the
same...
Dave
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788221 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 11:49 |
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Lozzo wrote:
> Pip Luscher says...
> > Lozzo wrote:
> >
> > >Come on, what's up with it?
>
> I've pumped the pistons almost right out to clean them, and they move
> freely within the seals.
>
> > guess number three (very unlikely) is that there's some sort of
> > blockage, and when the master piston returns under spring pressure it
> > draws the pads back.
>
> This sounds most likely. As I said, it'll be easier for me to source a
> newer used m/cyl than piss around trying to repair the 60K mile old one I have.
Isn't there a perfectly good spare on Pip's Bandit ? ;-)
HTH
Paul
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788229 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 12:05 |
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On 20 Jul 2006 02:49:24 -0700, zymurgy [at] technologist.com wrote:
>Lozzo wrote:
>> This sounds most likely. As I said, it'll be easier for me to source a
>> newer used m/cyl than piss around trying to repair the 60K mile old one I have.
>
>Isn't there a perfectly good spare on Pip's Bandit ? ;-)
There is, and it seems to be attached by locking wheel bolts now.
Strange, that.
There's a huge advantage to having a bunch of parts bin specials
hanging about: the RF has an identical rear brake - and there's a
spare RF master cylinder in a box in my garage. Hah!
--
Pip: B12
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| Re: Back brake problem [message #788316 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 17:05 |
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Lozzo wrote:
> Matt Chapter says...
> > possibly the pads are worn?
>
> New pads less than 2000 miles ago, and I've hardly touched the rear
> brake becauise it's awkward to operate. They are barely worn in.
New brake pads... Sacrilege, I say!
It's obvious you use the rear brake too much. [1]
[1] My CB still has the original *front* brake pads at ~20,000 miles.
--
Matt Chapter
DoD #2225
'76 CB 400F '86 R65
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