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Producers » rec.autos.makers.chrysler » '93 T&C Van Transmission problem
| '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783377] |
Tue, 18 July 2006 03:23 |
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OK hopefully you omeone can help me diagnose. Here is the story.
My wife was driving on Saturday and she said the car just seemed to "pop out
of gear". No noises or weird vibration, just no drive. This was on the
highway, so figure 65 MPH. She pulled over immediately, put it in park,
tried drive again, nothing there.
What I find tonight doing further diagnosis
1: Car seems to have drive, that is I can pull it forward, until I put a
load on it, i.e trying to drive it up my ramps, had to rev it then it
caught, lurched... not great
2: has no reverse. Sound of gears spinning lightly on each other when I
tried. Not horrible chewing grinding, but not good.
3: the fluid with the tranny COLD (Don't trust driving it to get it up to
temp,) idling in Park reads up to what the HOT level should read. The color
is not bright red , but not black and shows no signs of metal.
4: Gear selector cable seems fine.
5: Shifting from Drive to Neutral about 30% of the time there seems to be a
hangup, won't go into neutral by itself but if you give the front bumper a
good shove there is a soft pop, then it rolls
So I'm comfortable doing anything that can be accessed b removing the
transmission pan, which gets me into the filter and band adjustments and
some of the more minor stuff. And I have the Haynes with all the specs and
tolerances to reference.
Does anything I've said give anyone enough info to advise me, does it sound
like something that may result from a bad filter or of a band that can be
adjusted that I may be able to do myself or am I destined for the
transmission shop and shouldn't waste an evening mucking with it myself?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Chad
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783396 ] |
Tue, 18 July 2006 16:14 |
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Band adjustments?????
IIRC, there are a few different tranmissions that can be had in these
vans! Keeping in mind that my knowledge is by no means
comprehensive...
If you have the 4 cyl engine, then you could have a manual stick, or a
3 speed automatic.
If you have a V6 engine, then you could have a 3 speed automatic or a
4 speed automatic.
I had a 1994 Grand Caravan with the 3.3l V6 and the 4 speed A604
transmission. That tranmission has NO bands. Not sure about the 3
speed.
What could be wrong will depend on what engine / tranmission combo you
have, so please tell us what you have. :)
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:23:06 -0400, "nobody" <lightg2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>OK hopefully you omeone can help me diagnose. Here is the story.
>
>My wife was driving on Saturday and she said the car just seemed to "pop out
>of gear". No noises or weird vibration, just no drive. This was on the
>highway, so figure 65 MPH. She pulled over immediately, put it in park,
>tried drive again, nothing there.
>
>What I find tonight doing further diagnosis
>1: Car seems to have drive, that is I can pull it forward, until I put a
>load on it, i.e trying to drive it up my ramps, had to rev it then it
>caught, lurched... not great
>2: has no reverse. Sound of gears spinning lightly on each other when I
>tried. Not horrible chewing grinding, but not good.
>3: the fluid with the tranny COLD (Don't trust driving it to get it up to
>temp,) idling in Park reads up to what the HOT level should read. The color
>is not bright red , but not black and shows no signs of metal.
>4: Gear selector cable seems fine.
>5: Shifting from Drive to Neutral about 30% of the time there seems to be a
>hangup, won't go into neutral by itself but if you give the front bumper a
>good shove there is a soft pop, then it rolls
>
>So I'm comfortable doing anything that can be accessed b removing the
>transmission pan, which gets me into the filter and band adjustments and
>some of the more minor stuff. And I have the Haynes with all the specs and
>tolerances to reference.
>
>Does anything I've said give anyone enough info to advise me, does it sound
>like something that may result from a bad filter or of a band that can be
>adjusted that I may be able to do myself or am I destined for the
>transmission shop and shouldn't waste an evening mucking with it myself?
>
>Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>Chad
>
>
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783397 ] |
Tue, 18 July 2006 18:32 |
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nobody wrote:
> OK hopefully you omeone can help me diagnose. Here is the story.
>
> My wife was driving on Saturday and she said the car just seemed to "pop out
> of gear". No noises or weird vibration, just no drive. This was on the
> highway, so figure 65 MPH. She pulled over immediately, put it in park,
> tried drive again, nothing there.
>
> What I find tonight doing further diagnosis
> 1: Car seems to have drive, that is I can pull it forward, until I put a
> load on it, i.e trying to drive it up my ramps, had to rev it then it
> caught, lurched... not great
> 2: has no reverse. Sound of gears spinning lightly on each other when I
> tried. Not horrible chewing grinding, but not good.
> 3: the fluid with the tranny COLD (Don't trust driving it to get it up to
> temp,) idling in Park reads up to what the HOT level should read. The color
> is not bright red , but not black and shows no signs of metal.
> 4: Gear selector cable seems fine.
> 5: Shifting from Drive to Neutral about 30% of the time there seems to be a
> hangup, won't go into neutral by itself but if you give the front bumper a
> good shove there is a soft pop, then it rolls
>
> So I'm comfortable doing anything that can be accessed b removing the
> transmission pan, which gets me into the filter and band adjustments and
> some of the more minor stuff. And I have the Haynes with all the specs and
> tolerances to reference.
>
> Does anything I've said give anyone enough info to advise me, does it sound
> like something that may result from a bad filter or of a band that can be
> adjusted that I may be able to do myself or am I destined for the
> transmission shop and shouldn't waste an evening mucking with it myself?
>
> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
> Chad
I don't know about AutoZone. Did you try the ignition key trick to read
any basic codes? Also, I think there are two computers in this vehicle.
The transmission might have its own codes and computers, namely, the
Transmission Control Module. I would guess that AutoZone won't touch
that. The main engine computer, the PCM, I guess again, does not store
transmission codes.
This sounds pretty serious and not something simple and most likely
beyond anything in a Haynes manual. You can buy for the price of a
Haynes manual, the Chrysler transmission shop manual. Yup, it's only
$17 for the A604 last time I looked. 1989-1998 41 TE/AE TRANSAXLE
SUPERBOOK $17.00. They changed the names to 41TE but it's an A604 if
you have the 4 speed [overdrive] auto.
About the fluid. I remember putting some drops on a paper towel. If
they spread?, then the fluid was not bad. I still changed it and the
filter. That might be a good and safe start. See what you find. Chunks
of metal would not be good. If no obvious chunks of metal, then who
knows. I don't know enough to suggest that you might luck out and it
just may be a simple repair. If it were me, I would ask a tranny guy,
look in the shop manuals which have good flow charts and suggestions
for problems, and ask at allpar.com and ask and ask and ask.
If this vehicle has OD or overdrive, did you disconnect the OD to see
if that helped matters. Maybe the 4th gear is bad and you can get buy
in the lower 3 gears. I was thinking of some bad safety tranny switches
but they would shut off the engine when they malfunction. The shove
might indicate something out of alignment. Check to make sure the
tranny and engine are where they're supposed to be? Engine mounts okay?
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783401 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 00:31 |
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It reads like you need to change the ATF fluid. My Dodge Intrepid had
no problems in the transmission department until recently. When
problems did occur, it showed that the ATF was real dark brown in
color. Symptoms are, no forward gears and reluctance to go. The new
stuff is like a thick rose wine in color. So I changed the fluid and
the filter and the car ran again. The problem seems to be that you have
to put in more than the 4 quarts that the manual states. It is nearer 6
quarts. But it has to be added very gradually. Mainly because
overfilling it, causes awful damage. The voice of experience speaks
here.
Of course the transmission has to be at operating temp before adding
more fluid. It is all trial and testing as far as I can see,
Good luck
nobody wrote:
> OK hopefully you omeone can help me diagnose. Here is the story.
>
> My wife was driving on Saturday and she said the car just seemed to "pop out
> of gear". No noises or weird vibration, just no drive. This was on the
> highway, so figure 65 MPH. She pulled over immediately, put it in park,
> tried drive again, nothing there.
>
> What I find tonight doing further diagnosis
> 1: Car seems to have drive, that is I can pull it forward, until I put a
> load on it, i.e trying to drive it up my ramps, had to rev it then it
> caught, lurched... not great
> 2: has no reverse. Sound of gears spinning lightly on each other when I
> tried. Not horrible chewing grinding, but not good.
> 3: the fluid with the tranny COLD (Don't trust driving it to get it up to
> temp,) idling in Park reads up to what the HOT level should read. The color
> is not bright red , but not black and shows no signs of metal.
> 4: Gear selector cable seems fine.
> 5: Shifting from Drive to Neutral about 30% of the time there seems to be a
> hangup, won't go into neutral by itself but if you give the front bumper a
> good shove there is a soft pop, then it rolls
>
> So I'm comfortable doing anything that can be accessed b removing the
> transmission pan, which gets me into the filter and band adjustments and
> some of the more minor stuff. And I have the Haynes with all the specs and
> tolerances to reference.
>
> Does anything I've said give anyone enough info to advise me, does it sound
> like something that may result from a bad filter or of a band that can be
> adjusted that I may be able to do myself or am I destined for the
> transmission shop and shouldn't waste an evening mucking with it myself?
>
> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
> Chad
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783405 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 02:22 |
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Hey guys, I guess i'll try the oil and filter first, what's $30 and my time
if it saves me a bunch at the shop. See if I see anything obvious. Take it
from there.
To answer someone's question from earlier, it's a 1993 with the 3.3l V6.
Dunno what the Tranny is , 3 or 4 speed ... Think it's got the OD but it's
my wife's van, I don't drive it much .
The mention of the bands was only because the manual goes ito detail about
ajusting a couple of the bands, but those manuals often cover more than one
model year, maybe I was in the wrong paragraph.
Any other ideas still welcome!
Thanks, Chad
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783409 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 14:57 |
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If it has "OD", then it is the 4-Speed.
I had my solenoid pack go on me last Christmas. The symptoms were
simply that it went into limp mode though.
Good luck with it. Has this trans ever been rebuilt? How many
miles/kms since the rebuild?
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:22:31 -0400, "nobody" <lightg2000 [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Hey guys, I guess i'll try the oil and filter first, what's $30 and my time
>if it saves me a bunch at the shop. See if I see anything obvious. Take it
>from there.
>
>To answer someone's question from earlier, it's a 1993 with the 3.3l V6.
>Dunno what the Tranny is , 3 or 4 speed ... Think it's got the OD but it's
>my wife's van, I don't drive it much .
>
>The mention of the bands was only because the manual goes ito detail about
>ajusting a couple of the bands, but those manuals often cover more than one
>model year, maybe I was in the wrong paragraph.
>
>Any other ideas still welcome!
>
>Thanks, Chad
>
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783410 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 15:45 |
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I don't know if it's ever been rebuilt, I'm not the first owner but the
original owner did document everything religiously, so I should be able to
find out.
Money for a rebuild isn't in the cards right now so I'm really hoping it's
not that
"NewMan" <cloakedrun2001 [at] NOSPAM.yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:ktasb2t7j46qth81l8eoksfjaigqjdkb2i [at] 4ax.com...
> If it has "OD", then it is the 4-Speed.
>
> I had my solenoid pack go on me last Christmas. The symptoms were
> simply that it went into limp mode though.
>
> Good luck with it. Has this trans ever been rebuilt? How many
> miles/kms since the rebuild?
>
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:22:31 -0400, "nobody" <lightg2000 [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783411 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 16:27 |
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If you find a "good" shop, then a rebuild is not as bad as it
sounds...
The shop I use locally will rebuild the A604 / 41TE transmission for
$1495 CDN$ plus tax. That includes the re & re, the rebuild of the
guts, and a reconditioned torque converter. It does not include things
like sensors and the solenoid pack. One year warranty. Only met one
person who ever had to use their warranty, and they DO stand behind
their work! They had the van towed some 100 miles back to the shop,
fixed the problem, and delivered the van back to the owner! They are
CAA / AAA approved, and are a member of the local BBB (IIRC). And YES,
they use ATF +4 when refilling the tranmission!
They rebuild so many of them that they have a dedicated team just for
this tranmission - and they have it down to a science! On any given
day there are between 3 to 7 mini-vans in this shop. Boggles the mind.
And they have a wall of "thank you" letters in the front office from
satisfied customers.
I do so love dealing with honest, hard working shops that simply will
not rip you off and truly believe in getting it right the first time.
So if worst comes to worst, look for a shop like this.
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:45:05 GMT, "dave" <alpha32 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know if it's ever been rebuilt, I'm not the first owner but the
>original owner did document everything religiously, so I should be able to
>find out.
>
>Money for a rebuild isn't in the cards right now so I'm really hoping it's
>not that
>
>"NewMan" <cloakedrun2001 [at] NOSPAM.yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>news:ktasb2t7j46qth81l8eoksfjaigqjdkb2i [at] 4ax.com...
>> If it has "OD", then it is the 4-Speed.
>>
>> I had my solenoid pack go on me last Christmas. The symptoms were
>> simply that it went into limp mode though.
>>
>> Good luck with it. Has this trans ever been rebuilt? How many
>> miles/kms since the rebuild?
>>
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:22:31 -0400, "nobody" <lightg2000 [at] yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>
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| Re: '93 T&C Van Transmission problem [message #783471 ] |
Sat, 22 July 2006 11:09 |
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"nobody" <lightg2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u4udnTgog8MmHyDZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Hey guys, I guess i'll try the oil and filter first, what's $30 and my
time
> if it saves me a bunch at the shop. See if I see anything obvious. Take it
> from there.
>
Don't, your wasting your money. If it won't go into reverse you
have broken a gear. Most likely the sun or planetary gear, that
is a known weak point and if it fails the van will drive forward in
first gear but no other gears will work.
You need it rebuilt. You also need the trans computer updated
if it is still on original firmware. A dealership can do that. They
usually charge $100 or you can get one from a wrecker that
has been firmware updated.
> To answer someone's question from earlier, it's a 1993 with the 3.3l V6.
> Dunno what the Tranny is
A604/41TE are the only trans that got used on the 3.3 and 3.8 There
are no bands.
Ted
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