| Question for dealership auto techs [message #781759] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 04:59 |
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I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
$600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
This is the first time I have ever done this.
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781760 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 05:15 |
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<dc.nc [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1153277975.618271.262630 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
> This is the first time I have ever done this.
>
Yes they should, I don't know if all states are the same... but where I live
they couldn't make you pay for it.
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781767 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 06:20 |
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dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
>
> I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
> This is the first time I have ever done this.
Perhaps you should assume responsibility for your actions?
When I worked at a Ford dealership as a line tech I accidentally backed into a
pickup truck bed cap that another tech temporarily placed behind the car I was
working on.
I accepted responsibility for my actions and paid for what was clearly my fault -
I should have looked behind before moving my vehicle.
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781770 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 06:49 |
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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:20:15 GMT, "« Paul »" <" « Paul
»" [at] houston.rr.com> wrote:
>dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
>>
>> I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
>> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
>> $600 in damages.
The dealership where you work is sleazy.
>> Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
Deductible is probably a good dealer higher than $600. Still the
dealership should cover it as an operating expense. If you make a
habit of it they can let you go.
>> This is the first time I have ever done this.
>Perhaps you should assume responsibility for your actions?
>When I worked at a Ford dealership as a line tech I accidentally backed into a
>pickup truck bed cap that another tech temporarily placed behind the car I was
>working on.
>I accepted responsibility for my actions and paid for what was clearly my fault -
Generous of you but not called for. If you had worked for me I would
have refused payment and thanked you for the offer.
>I should have looked behind before moving my vehicle.
We all make mistakes, owners and employees alike. Human weaknesses
reduce profitability for owner and employee alike. It should not be
punished but it is appropriate to review procedures to reduce the
chance of it happening again. This is the responsability of
management and employee both. For example: "monstrous SUV into a
tight stall." Sooner or later an owner or manager who had to do that
would probably scrape some paint also.
I am a shop owner and the risk of accidents is MY direct burden.
Not to say they're not bad for business and indirectly hurt employee
and employer alike, but as far as direct costs go the shop carries it.
This is the law in most if not all states, (Paul I see you are in
Houston -- I am almost positive what they are asking from you is
illegal in Texas!) It is absolutely ethically mandated as far as I am
concerned. My techs do not get paid every dollar of gross profit on
the vehicles they work on and some of the justification for the
owner's profit is the owner's assumption of risk. If one of my techs
causes an accident they are still going to make a good paycheck. One
of the benefits to me is there is relatively little temptation to
coverup an accident or rationalize the blame elsewhere. If a tech has
repeated accidents then he will have to go, but pulling reimbursement
out of a paycheck is WRONG!! If the cost of an accident is small to
middling its an unfortunate occasional operating expensive, if a
catastrophic accident should occur then that's why some of the gross
profit of the shop goes to pay for garageman's liability insurance.
Don
www.donsautomotive.com
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781771 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 06:50 |
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In article
<1153277975.618271.262630 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
> I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
> This is the first time I have ever done this.
Sure, that's fair -if- you get to keep 100 percent of the money
that your work area generates.
Sounds like the place you work at wants non of the risk of being
in business and all of the profits.
Unless of course you were horsing around...
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781772 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 06:57 |
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<dc.nc [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1153277975.618271.262630 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
> This is the first time I have ever done this.
>
In most states they can not legally make you pay for the damage, but they
certainly have the right to fire you if you do not.
When I ran a shop I would try to determine if such an accident was careless
or virtually unavoidable. If it was carelessness on the part of the
employee, he had a choice of easy payroll deductions or a pink slip. We did
have liability insurance to cover the damage, but our rates went up if we
made too many claims, so we only used the insurance when necessary.
--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781775 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 07:03 |
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On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:50:49 GMT, aarcuda69062
<nonelson [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>In article
><1153277975.618271.262630 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
>
>> I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
>> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
>> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
>> This is the first time I have ever done this.
>
>Sure, that's fair -if- you get to keep 100 percent of the money
>that your work area generates.
Exactly!
Don
www.donsautomotive.com
>Sounds like the place you work at wants non of the risk of being
>in business and all of the profits.
>
>Unless of course you were horsing around...
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781787 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 12:42 |
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dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
> I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
I've got one better than that. About a year a tech was backing in a
huge van/small bus
type of vehicle that carries handicapped people. This was also in a
shop that was built for cars, but now the majority of vehicles being
worked on are the huge 4X4 pickups and space is at a premium. Anyway,
he was given hand signals by the shop foreman and the tech was being
completely dependent on the foreman for directions. As he backed the
behemouth up, he scrapped the side of a Ford Focus. At first the
foreman was going to make the tech pay for all of it, but after much
complaining by the tech, they split it 50/50. We still think the the
50% that came from the foreman was paid for by the owner. If I was the
tech, I would have pushed this a little harder.
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781789 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 14:02 |
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=AB=BB wrote:
> dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
>>I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
>>tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
>>$600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
>Perhaps you should assume responsibility for your actions?
>When I worked at a Ford dealership as a line tech I accidentally backed in=
to a
>pickup truck bed cap that another tech temporarily placed behind the car I=
was
>working on.
Policies that blame employees result in mistakes being covered up and
making workers so angry or nervous that even more mistakes occur.
Punish employees for being careless or malicious, train, transfer, or
get rid of incompetent ones, but otherwise the problem is the company's
responsibility. A good company wouldn't make a mechanic work in such a
tight space anyway.
There was an instance where 4-5 workers dropped and broke an
approximately 30" space telescope lens costing millions. Should they
have been held liable for its cost?
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781803 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 16:41 |
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Kevin wrote:
>
> <dc.nc [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1153277975.618271.262630 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> >I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> > tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> > $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
> > This is the first time I have ever done this.
> >
>
> In most states they can not legally make you pay for the damage, but they
> certainly have the right to fire you if you do not.
> When I ran a shop I would try to determine if such an accident was careless
> or virtually unavoidable. If it was carelessness on the part of the
> employee, he had a choice of easy payroll deductions or a pink slip.
I don't know what state you are in but in most states simply asking an
employee to pay for damages is considered to be extortion and is quite
illegal. You have various things you can do to discipline an employee
including immediate termination. Requiring that an employee buy their
way out of a disciplinary action is blackmail.
-jim
> We did
> have liability insurance to cover the damage, but our rates went up if we
> made too many claims, so we only used the insurance when necessary.
> --
> Kevin Mouton
> Automotive Technology Instructor
> "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
> Red Green
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781804 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 17:02 |
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"jim" <"sjedgingN0sp" [at] m [at] mwt.net> wrote in message
news:1153319550_66323 [at] sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>
>
> Kevin wrote:
>>
>> <dc.nc [at] verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:1153277975.618271.262630 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> >I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
>> > tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
>> > $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
>> > This is the first time I have ever done this.
>> >
>>
>> In most states they can not legally make you pay for the damage, but they
>> certainly have the right to fire you if you do not.
>> When I ran a shop I would try to determine if such an accident was
>> careless
>> or virtually unavoidable. If it was carelessness on the part of the
>> employee, he had a choice of easy payroll deductions or a pink slip.
>
> I don't know what state you are in but in most states simply asking an
> employee to pay for damages is considered to be extortion and is quite
> illegal. You have various things you can do to discipline an employee
> including immediate termination. Requiring that an employee buy their
> way out of a disciplinary action is blackmail.
>
> -jim
>
Yeah, I realize that. I guess my reply did sound like I was saying pay up or
get fired. I should have worded that differently. There are ways to
accomplish that without actually comming across as an extorsionist. Don't
get me wrong though. In 18 years there were only two times a tech did
somthing so stupid and with such disregard for common sense and safety that
I actually expected them to be finacially responsible for their actions. I
know what you mean by extortion and I must say I wouldn't do that. Of
course, it was never put to the the idiot that he had to pay up or be fired,
but he certainly understood that if he did not take responsibility for his
actions then it wouldn't take me long to find a legitimate reason to get rid
of him. In one case the employee just quit without complaint and the other
actually wanted to make good his mistake. He continued to work for me for
another ten years and 20 years later he is still a top tech at the shop I
was supervising.
As for the OP. I don't think the shop should charge him for the damage, even
though I do not know all the circumstances, but it sure sounds like the shop
should absorb that one and take a close look at their safety situation in
the future.
Kevin
>
>> We did
>> have liability insurance to cover the damage, but our rates went up if we
>> made too many claims, so we only used the insurance when necessary.
>> --
>> Kevin Mouton
>> Automotive Technology Instructor
>> "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
>> Red Green
>
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781808 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 17:55 |
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I would guess that in most places it would be illegal for the employer
to collect this from the employee unless the "employee" was an
independant contractor(in which case there would probably be a legal
agreement anyway). These are part of the "normal" business expenses
which the business owner is responsible for.
Having said that, most states are "employment at will" which means the
employer could terminate you without a reason at any time. Carelessness
and excessive loss of company money is a good reason if you need one.
In my business(not auto repair), technicians have damaged parts,
installed them unecessarily, lost parts as well as just wasted company
time. At some point I have to look at the employee to be sure they
aren't losing more money than they are bringing in.
--
CraigFL
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781891 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 23:07 |
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dc.nc [at] verizon.net wrote:
> I work at a Chevy dealership. I was pulling a monstrous SUV into a
> tight stall and scraped the side. I am told that I need to pay for the
> $600 in damages. Shouldn't the dealership have insurance for this?
> This is the first time I have ever done this.
Hi, you need real legal advise from a lawer familiar with your states
laws. A lot is going to depend on your precise status, are you a paid
employee, or are you a contractor. If you are a contractor what are the
terms of the contract .
If you have been told to pay up , I would send a letter to the
dealership requesting clarification (of their legal position on this
request), and I would start looking for another job.
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781924 ] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 05:34 |
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« Paul »"wrote:
> Perhaps you should assume responsibility for your actions?
> When I worked at a Ford dealership as a line tech I accidentally
> backed into a pickup truck bed cap that another tech temporarily
> placed behind the car I was working on.
> I accepted responsibility for my actions and paid for what was
> clearly my fault - I should have looked behind before moving my
> vehicle.
Very big of you.....but a foolish thing to do. I've been working
in the trade for close to 30 years, and until recently, most
employers I worked for always wanted the tech's to "be
responsible". It's flat out illegal to make a tech pay for something
like this...but there are enough tech's around that are either
afraid for their job, or don't know their legal rights.
It's the same thing as "chargebacks". This was very common
in the dealership that I work at now, but I have never been
charged back for anything. I simply told them it wasn't legal
and that I would move on if they wanted to continue doing it.
I guess they like my work so far. I've always been of the mind
that the employer shouldn't try to nickle and dime me on things
like accidents....if I have too many of them....get rid of me!
Having worked for so long as a "flat rate" mechanic, it's been
bred into me that I will fix a "comeback" that is clearly my
mistake for no labour charge. Even this is illegal, but I am
willing to take responsiblity. Fortunately, my dealership is
fairly reasonable about "comebacks". Can't figure out why
they are so silly about charging tech's back for other things.
The funniest (or perhaps the saddest) part is that when the
economy is in the dumper and it's more difficult to find a
job, the employers turn into real assholes. Then when they
can't find any tech's for the life of them.....all of a sudden
they treat us like gold.
Ian
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| Re: Question for dealership auto techs [message #781927 ] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 06:28 |
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> As for the OP. I don't think the shop should charge him for the damage,
> even though I do not know all the circumstances, but it sure sounds like
> the shop should absorb that one and take a close look at their safety
> situation in the future.
>
> Kevin
The key point being that the shop chose to use that stall for that kind of
vehicle... The shop was taking the risk that something like this would
happen.
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