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Motorcycles » uk.rec.motorcycles » A tale of a ringed bike
| A tale of a ringed bike [message #779614] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 21:16 |
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Remember me metnioning my neighbour's rather nice supermotard'd Yamaha
XT600E? Polish reg? That he has now registered on a UK plate?
Good.
Because he got a call today from the VRO, who've been looking at the
history associated with the chassis number. Guess what?
It belongs to a bike that was scrapped and exported to Poland. They're
taking a keen interest. They've already said that the K plate they
allocated it will be withdrawn, and it will be given a Q plate.
So I have a look at it, and lo and behold, the engine number has been
ground off. And I take a *very* close look at the chassis number on the
headstock, and yes, the numbers don't line up properly, and if you look
*really* closely you can see where the old number has been filled with
weld and it's then been ground down.
It's been done well, but if you know what to look for....
So now, it's not a bike that's been scrapped, it's *got the identity of
a bike that's been scrapped*. In other words, it is as hookey as hell.
Stolen and given a new identity.
So he says he's been in touch with the Trading Standards People, because
he bought it from a certain Norf London dealer. Supposedly, from the
mechanic there, but still from a dealer.
I choke quietly, and tell him to forget the TSOs, and get onto the
dealer *now*, and demand a full refund for the £1600 he paid for the
bike, plus his costs for MoT'ing and licencing it. And if they give him
*any* grief (like "it was a private sale from our mechanic, an' he
doesn't work 'ere any more"), simply tell them that they'll have the
TSOs onto them, and the police, and also, for good measure, the VATman
because he'll grass them up to the Revenue for good measure.
If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
have a closer look, and then they too will see it's been ringed, and
then he'll be out of pocket *and* not have any bike. Get the bike back
to the dealer sharpish and get cash in your mitt. *Now*.
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD250 Z650
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779648 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 22:21 |
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember
chateau.murraySPAMKILL [at] dsl.pipex.com (The Older Gentleman) saying
something like:
>If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
>have a closer look, and then they too will see it's been ringed, and
>then he'll be out of pocket *and* not have any bike. Get the bike back
>to the dealer sharpish and get cash in your mitt. *Now*.
This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
yours.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding [at] Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779652 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 22:17 |
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The Older Gentleman wrote
>Remember me metnioning my neighbour's rather nice supermotard'd Yamaha
>XT600E? Polish reg? That he has now registered on a UK plate?
Those that actually read what you post might. I dunno what my excuse is
though.
>
>Good.
>
>Because he got a call today from the VRO, who've been looking at the
>history associated with the chassis number. Guess what?
>So now, it's not a bike that's been scrapped, it's *got the identity of
>a bike that's been scrapped*. In other words, it is as hookey as hell.
>Stolen and given a new identity.
>If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
>have a closer look, and then they too will see it's been ringed, and
>then he'll be out of pocket *and* not have any bike. Get the bike back
>to the dealer sharpish and get cash in your mitt. *Now*.
He needs to move fast as you say.
Let us know how he gets on.
--
steve auvache
one step closer to The Perfect Date.
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779679 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:14 |
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>
> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
> yours.
> --
> Dave
How does that work for the poor sod that lost it in the first place?
John
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779684 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:23 |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:14:49 +0100, "Eatmorepies"
<naj9daynum3 [at] lineone.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
>> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
>> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
>> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
>> yours.
>> --
>> Dave
>
>How does that work for the poor sod that lost it in the first place?
For vehicles (dunno about donkeys), presumably the poor sod claimed on
the insurance. The insco, having already paid up, aren't going to lose
any more money, especially as they've taken down the claimant's NCD?
Only a guess, mind.
--
-Pip
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779692 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:34 |
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steve auvache wrote:
> The Older Gentleman wrote
>> Because he got a call today from the VRO, who've been looking at the
>> history associated with the chassis number. Guess what?
>> If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
>> have a closer look
> He needs to move fast as you say.
Not wishing to be unduly down, but if he transfers the bike back to the
dealer now isn't he guilty of handling stolen goods?
--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779705 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:40 |
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AndrewR wrote
>steve auvache wrote:
>> The Older Gentleman wrote
>
>>> Because he got a call today from the VRO, who've been looking at the
>>> history associated with the chassis number. Guess what?
>
>>> If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
>>> have a closer look
>
>> He needs to move fast as you say.
>
>Not wishing to be unduly down, but if he transfers the bike back to the
>dealer now isn't he guilty of handling stolen goods?
As I understand it then he is already.
--
steve auvache
one step closer to The Perfect Date.
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779714 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:58 |
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"Eatmorepies" <naj9daynum3 [at] lineone.net> wrote in message
news:44b6b7ce_4 [at] mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
>>
>> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
>> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
>> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
>> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
>> yours.
>> --
>> Dave
>
> How does that work for the poor sod that lost it in the first place?
He'll have been paid out by the insco wouldn't he?
--
Beav
VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779732 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 00:16 |
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Beav wrote:
> > > This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of
> > > the innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good
> > > faith in Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it.
> > > The Lawr will try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't
> > > have to, it's yours.
> >
> > How does that work for the poor sod that lost it in the first place?
>
> He'll have been paid out by the insco wouldn't he?
What if it was only insured TP?
--
Simon
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779772 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 01:08 |
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Eatmorepies"
<naj9daynum3 [at] lineone.net> saying something like:
>> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
>> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
>> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
>> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
>> yours.
>> --
>> Dave
>
>How does that work for the poor sod that lost it in the first place?
<shrug>
Mostly he's insured.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding [at] Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779847 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 09:11 |
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly4REMOVE [at] REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:2madb2ptcenklmun63deoc4dqul5p99uvl [at] 4ax.com...
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember
> chateau.murraySPAMKILL [at] dsl.pipex.com (The Older Gentleman) saying
> something like:
>
> >If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
> >have a closer look, and then they too will see it's been ringed, and
> >then he'll be out of pocket *and* not have any bike. Get the bike back
> >to the dealer sharpish and get cash in your mitt. *Now*.
>
> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
> yours.
You might not be so enthusiastic if it was your third-party only insured
bike or car that had been stolen and was now being ridden/driven around by
someone else. The thief gets the profit, the other person gets the vehicle
and you have fuck all. Doesn't sound quite so wonderful when it is put like
that, does it?
--
Tony
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779851 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 09:06 |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:21:08 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimly4REMOVE [at] REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember
>chateau.murraySPAMKILL [at] dsl.pipex.com (The Older Gentleman) saying
>something like:
>
>>If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
>>have a closer look, and then they too will see it's been ringed, and
>>then he'll be out of pocket *and* not have any bike. Get the bike back
>>to the dealer sharpish and get cash in your mitt. *Now*.
>
>This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
>innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
>Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
>try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
>yours.
So what the poor sod whose bike has gone walkabout in the first place?
If he can be identified, and the bike found in the company of it's new
owner, why shouldn't he have it back?
--
http://www.addict-racing.com
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #779916 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 12:00 |
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly4REMOVE [at] REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:2madb2ptcenklmun63deoc4dqul5p99uvl [at] 4ax.com...
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember
> chateau.murraySPAMKILL [at] dsl.pipex.com (The Older Gentleman) saying
> something like:
>
>>If he doesn't get the bike back to the dealer soon, then the VRO will
>>have a closer look, and then they too will see it's been ringed, and
>>then he'll be out of pocket *and* not have any bike. Get the bike back
>>to the dealer sharpish and get cash in your mitt. *Now*.
>
> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
> yours.
Are you sure about that?
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780114 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 20:11 |
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "gazzafield"
<rufty_tufty_hoolythug [at] nospam.says_I.ko> saying something like:
>Are you sure about that?
Unless the law's been changed, of course. The polis will always try to
take it back and act as if you should give them it 'cos it's the law',
but it isn't and they're just trying it on. It works most of the time.
There's a similar thing in one of the English market towns - if you buy
hookey gear there in good faith the title passes to you in law.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding [at] Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780115 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 20:06 |
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Ben <ukrm [at] bensales.com> saying
something like:
>So what the poor sod whose bike has gone walkabout in the first place?
>If he can be identified, and the bike found in the company of it's new
>owner, why shouldn't he have it back?
He should have looked after it better in the first place, so fuck'im.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding [at] Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780116 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 20:07 |
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "TMack"
<REMOVETHECAPStonymackin [at] bigfoot.com> saying something like:
>You might not be so enthusiastic if it was your third-party only insured
>bike or car that had been stolen and was now being ridden/driven around by
>someone else. The thief gets the profit, the other person gets the vehicle
>and you have fuck all. Doesn't sound quite so wonderful when it is put like
>that, does it?
So what? What about the poor sod who bought something in good faith and
loses the lot? Eh? Eh? What about that, mr smarty pants?
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding [at] Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780155 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 21:44 |
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Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly4REMOVE [at] removegmail.com> wrote:
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "gazzafield"
> <rufty_tufty_hoolythug [at] nospam.says_I.ko> saying something like:
>
> >Are you sure about that?
>
> Unless the law's been changed, of course. The polis will always try to
> take it back and act as if you should give them it 'cos it's the law',
> but it isn't and they're just trying it on. It works most of the time.
>
> There's a similar thing in one of the English market towns - if you buy
> hookey gear there in good faith the title passes to you in law.
So, some scrote nicks my property, flogs it at the market, and I take
it you are saying I can be banged up for theft if I take what's mine
back from the unsuspecting good-faith buyer?
I really fail to see how my being robbed of my lawful property in any
way legally entitles someone else to it. If my bike were stolen, I'd
not feel bad taking it back directly from whomever had possession of it,
no matter how they came to have it.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000A-13 '81 CM400T
OMF #7
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780171 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 22:27 |
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:44:43 -0000, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>So, some scrote nicks my property, flogs it at the market, and I take
>it you are saying I can be banged up for theft if I take what's mine
>back from the unsuspecting good-faith buyer?
Sounds... odd. I'd have thought that it would be OK to reclaim
property.
Thinking about it, the problem is probably that you have to prove that
it *is* yours. If the frame & engine numbers have been altered so that
they're unrecognisable then you're into forensic territory and I'm not
sure that UK police forces at least are prepared to spend the money to
check. Now if a murder, or worse, speeding had been committed then no
expense would be spared.
With a used motorcycle there might be scuffs & other identifying marks
that you might have in photos of your pride & joy that could be used
as evidence in court, maybe.
Apparently changing *engine* numbers isn't a crime (though obviously
bloody suspicious), but I'm not sure about VINs.
--
-Pip
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780181 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 22:39 |
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
saying something like:
>So, some scrote nicks my property, flogs it at the market, and I take
>it you are saying I can be banged up for theft if I take what's mine
>back from the unsuspecting good-faith buyer?
No, it becomes a civil case then and the Polis take a back seat, afair.
>I really fail to see how my being robbed of my lawful property in any
>way legally entitles someone else to it. If my bike were stolen, I'd
>not feel bad taking it back directly from whomever had possession of it,
>no matter how they came to have it.
Hey, if I'd paid a reasonable amount of wonga for your bike and some
cunt turned up at my door claiming it to be his, I'd be hanging on to
it, too right.
It all gets murky though; I know for sure this law has been abused when
it comes to cars - ringers being bought by cunts in the know and
claiming good faith purchase.
The whole idea in the first place was to protect good faith buyers - it
probably stems from the days of cattle stealing.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
In my trousers.
Folding [at] Home Team UKRM http://www.tinyurl.com/jkxwv
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780195 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 22:57 |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:23:53 +0000, Pip Luscher wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:14:49 +0100, "Eatmorepies"
> <naj9daynum3 [at] lineone.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> This is where the law in England needs to be changed in favour of the
>>> innocent purchaser. If you buy a car/ bike/ donkey in good faith in
>>> Scotland and it turns out to be hookey, you hang on to it. The Lawr will
>>> try to persuade you to give it to them, but you don't have to, it's
>>> yours.
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>
>>How does that work for the poor sod that lost it in the first place?
>
> For vehicles (dunno about donkeys), presumably the poor sod claimed on
> the insurance. The insco, having already paid up, aren't going to lose
> any more money, especially as they've taken down the claimant's NCD?
>
> Only a guess, mind.
But then the insurer is out of pocket. Once the claim is settled it's
*their* bike.
--
Simon - UKRM~verdigris,plus,com
Tiger - A return to good sense.
Z1000 - Less sense, more sensation.
MAG BOTAFOT#36 two#22 HLR#pi BONY#62 BHaLC#3 LotR#7
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| Re: A tale of a ringed bike [message #780210 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 23:50 |
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:57:46 +0100, Verdigris <verdigris [at] deadspam.com>
wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:23:53 +0000, Pip Luscher wrote:
>
>> For vehicles (dunno about donkeys), presumably the poor sod claimed on
>> the insurance. The insco, having already paid up, aren't going to lose
>> any more money, especially as they've taken down the claimant's NCD?
>>
>> Only a guess, mind.
>
>But then the insurer is out of pocket. Once the claim is settled it's
>*their* bike.
True.
--
-Pip
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