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Motorcycles » rec.motorcycles.dirt » OT
| OT [message #777758] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 18:55 |
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<JediHandWave.mov>
"This is not the bike you are looking for"
"You want a Two Stroke"
"Move along"
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| Re: OT [message #777784 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 02:26 |
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On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:55:30 -0500, "David" <David [at] K-O.com> wrote:
><JediHandWave.mov>
>"This is not the bike you are looking for"
>"You want a Two Stroke"
>"Move along"
I've decided I don't care how many strokes it has. I just want
something light and torque-y in the woods. And no e-start.
I did ride an ATKannondale once that was prone to stalling coming into
corners and I will admit it was kind of fun just hitting the button.
Just for effect.
These new bikes with no kickstarters bother me. The ATKannondale with
fuel injection that requires juice to even operate bothers me even
more.
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| Re: OT [message #777811 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 12:58 |
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scrape wrote:
> I've decided I don't care how many strokes it has. I just want
> something light and torque-y in the woods. And no e-start.
You are a WR250Z man, for sure. After they were taken off the
Austrian market a buddy of mine invested much money trying to turn
a YZ250 into something similar (gearbox, torque, traction,
suspension type, radiator volume, coolant catch tank) and failed,
according to his own report.
> These new bikes with no kickstarters bother me. The ATKannondale
> with fuel injection that requires juice to even operate bothers
> me even more.
And rightfully so.
I managed to drain Jim's 520MX battery in 5MOH.
I happen to leave the ignition on on my WR450F for time to time.
Both fire of very well when kick started.
Off road bikes w/o a kick starter are cheap design, nothing else.
Rowdy
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| Re: OT [message #777812 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 13:27 |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:58:02 +0200, Peter Renner <no-thx [at] gmx.net>
wrote:
>scrape wrote:
> > I've decided I don't care how many strokes it has. I just want
> > something light and torque-y in the woods. And no e-start.
>
>You are a WR250Z man, for sure. After they were taken off the
>Austrian market a buddy of mine invested much money trying to turn
>a YZ250 into something similar (gearbox, torque, traction,
>suspension type, radiator volume, coolant catch tank) and failed,
>according to his own report.
The hit on a YZ is something I have zero use for in the woods. Or on
the track, for that matter.
> > These new bikes with no kickstarters bother me. The ATKannondale
> > with fuel injection that requires juice to even operate bothers
> > me even more.
>
>And rightfully so.
>I managed to drain Jim's 520MX battery in 5MOH.
>I happen to leave the ignition on on my WR450F for time to time.
>Both fire of very well when kick started.
>
>Off road bikes w/o a kick starter are cheap design, nothing else.
And off road bikes that will not run without a charged battery are a
dangerous design as far as I'm concerned. Seriously inconvenient at
the very least.
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| Re: OT [message #777817 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 15:56 |
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In article <i9bcb2l23d1s9v5imkictpjhjtfetpjvav [at] 4ax.com>,
scrape <scrapeNOTHANKS [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
> And off road bikes that will not run without a charged battery are a
> dangerous design as far as I'm concerned. Seriously inconvenient at
> the very least.
Nah, all you need is a bit of a downhill or a friend push-starting you.
A far bigger danger is a 4s bike that's stalled in a precarious place
and takes over 10 min of kicking to start (been there many times).
But yeah, no reason why they can't add a $130 kick start lever to a bike
in emergencies. after all they know dirt riding mean often you're 100 km
from civilization (or away from a good downhill)
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| Re: OT [message #777819 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 16:10 |
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Eat Dirt wrote:
> In article <i9bcb2l23d1s9v5imkictpjhjtfetpjvav [at] 4ax.com>,
> scrape <scrapeNOTHANKS [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > And off road bikes that will not run without a charged battery are a
> > dangerous design as far as I'm concerned. Seriously inconvenient at
> > the very least.
>
> Nah, all you need is a bit of a downhill or a friend push-starting you.
> A far bigger danger is a 4s bike that's stalled in a precarious place
> and takes over 10 min of kicking to start (been there many times).
> But yeah, no reason why they can't add a $130 kick start lever to a bike
> in emergencies. after all they know dirt riding mean often you're 100 km
> from civilization (or away from a good downhill)
What scrape meant (I think) is a bike set up like a car.
With a true alternator setup, there is no permanent magnet in the
rotor, so without a certain amount of current from the battery, you can
generate any juice to run the ignition. Totally dead battery me4ans
totally dead vehicle.
With a magneto setup (like my XRL) if the battery is dead flat, then
you can push-start.
But are there any dirt/dualsport bikes with a true alternator? (might
be better to say, analternator without a permanent magnet, but I think
that's why they call it a magneto...)
Personally, I could kill Honda for eliminating the kicker from the XRL.
DDave
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| Re: NOT [message #777827 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 17:38 |
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"Peter Renner" <no-thx [at] gmx.net> wrote in message
news:ef548$44b6272e$5471908c$9194 [at] news.chello.at...
> Off road bikes w/o a kick starter are cheap design, nothing else.
Hey! Are you calling HellSickle cheap? At least the 20 pound
battery got you thru 5MOH. Unhooking the headlight & taillight
at the start of the trip was a good idea.
(I'm still kicking myself for not replacing the countershaft with
the XR countershaft when I rebuilt her).
After riding a couple of 4-stroke MX'rs recently, I would not
even consider one of the new 4 strokes without the happy-fun
button. They can be a real PITA when they flame out.
-Jeff Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-HellSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
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| Re: NOT [message #777833 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 18:30 |
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Jeff Deeney wrote:
> "Peter Renner" <no-thx [at] gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:ef548$44b6272e$5471908c$9194 [at] news.chello.at...
>
>> Off road bikes w/o a kick starter are cheap design, nothing else.
>
> Hey! Are you calling HellSickle cheap?
Oops, err, No, definitely not a cheap bike!
> At least the 20 pound battery got you thru 5MOH.
Which in retrospect is amazing. Imagine i'd have been goofing
around more and killing the engine every 2nd corner, actually
draining the battery. Was the helicopter haul rate?
Btw. that was the reason i couldn't go at group's pace,
too frequent stopping, too many cold starts :-)
> Unhooking the headlight & taillight at the start of the trip
> was a good idea.
W/o these and an engine at operating temp, she truly fired up
within fractions of a second of cranking, a well jetted bike,
for sure!
> (I'm still kicking myself for not replacing the countershaft with
> the XR countershaft when I rebuilt her).
Why's that? The gearing wouldn't change, would it?
> After riding a couple of 4-stroke MX'rs recently, I would not
> even consider one of the new 4 strokes without the happy-fun
> button. They can be a real PITA when they flame out.
Try a wr450f if you can. Single kick staring hot or cold,
summer or winter. (but of course she certainly ain't a MXer)
Rowdy
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| Re: NOT [message #777838 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 18:56 |
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"Rowdy" <ask-djones-for-this-part [at] gmx.net> wrote in message
news:ba3dd$44b67505$5471908c$23687 [at] news.chello.at...
> Jeff Deeney wrote:
>> "Peter Renner" <no-thx [at] gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:ef548$44b6272e$5471908c$9194 [at] news.chello.at...
>> (I'm still kicking myself for not replacing the countershaft with
>> the XR countershaft when I rebuilt her).
>
> Why's that? The gearing wouldn't change, would it?
The XR600 countershaft has a machined shoulder on the right hand side
that isn't present on the XRL part. It's where the idler gear for the
kick starter resides. Shortly after I rebuild HellSickle, a
cow-orker frag'd an XR600. I could have picked up the kickstarter
parts for cheap.
> Try a wr450f if you can. Single kick staring hot or cold,
> summer or winter. (but of course she certainly ain't a MXer)
I'll book my flights for next week. Are you going to be
around? :-)
-Jeff Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-HellSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
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| Re: OT [message #777841 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 19:00 |
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scrape wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:55:30 -0500, "David" <David [at] K-O.com> wrote:
>
>
>><JediHandWave.mov>
>>"This is not the bike you are looking for"
>>"You want a Two Stroke"
>>"Move along"
>
>
> I've decided I don't care how many strokes it has. I just want
> something light and torque-y in the woods. And no e-start.
>
> I did ride an ATKannondale once that was prone to stalling coming into
> corners and I will admit it was kind of fun just hitting the button.
> Just for effect.
>
> These new bikes with no kickstarters bother me. The ATKannondale with
> fuel injection that requires juice to even operate bothers me even
> more.
The ATKannondales had a real problem at low rpms, they would
either start surging or die. The only way that bike would've
been ok in the woods is if it had a carburetor on it.
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| Re: OT [message #777851 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 20:16 |
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> These new bikes with no kickstarters bother me. The ATKannondale with
> fuel injection that requires juice to even operate bothers me even
> more.
I agree. I think everything should have a kick backup, even on the
street. That being said, I don't see myself ever buying another bike
(for me, that is) w/o e-start.
Jay
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| Re: OT [message #777875 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 23:48 |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:56:19 -0600, Eat Dirt <no_email [at] no_email.no>
wrote:
>> And off road bikes that will not run without a charged battery are a
>> dangerous design as far as I'm concerned. Seriously inconvenient at
>> the very least.
>
>Nah, all you need is a bit of a downhill or a friend push-starting you.
>A far bigger danger is a 4s bike that's stalled in a precarious place
>and takes over 10 min of kicking to start (been there many times).
>But yeah, no reason why they can't add a $130 kick start lever to a bike
>in emergencies. after all they know dirt riding mean often you're 100 km
>from civilization (or away from a good downhill)
Nope. The ATKannondale will not bump start with a dead battery. The
fuel injection needs 12v to operate. I found this out the hard way.
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| Re: OT [message #777886 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 03:22 |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:00:41 GMT, Chris Buckley
<cnbuckley [at] less.spam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> These new bikes with no kickstarters bother me. The ATKannondale with
>> fuel injection that requires juice to even operate bothers me even
>> more.
>
>The ATKannondales had a real problem at low rpms, they would
>either start surging or die. The only way that bike would've
>been ok in the woods is if it had a carburetor on it.
Or with GasGas's fuel injection system. They tried too hard to invent
everything from the ground up.
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| Re: OT [message #777899 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 08:33 |
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In article <1152799851.994176.95840 [at] 75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"XR650L_Dave" <spamTHISbrp [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> Eat Dirt wrote:
> > In article <i9bcb2l23d1s9v5imkictpjhjtfetpjvav [at] 4ax.com>,
> > scrape <scrapeNOTHANKS [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And off road bikes that will not run without a charged battery are a
> > > dangerous design as far as I'm concerned. Seriously inconvenient at
> > > the very least.
> >
> > Nah, all you need is a bit of a downhill or a friend push-starting you.
> > A far bigger danger is a 4s bike that's stalled in a precarious place
> > and takes over 10 min of kicking to start (been there many times).
> > But yeah, no reason why they can't add a $130 kick start lever to a bike
> > in emergencies. after all they know dirt riding mean often you're 100 km
> > from civilization (or away from a good downhill)
>
> What scrape meant (I think) is a bike set up like a car.
>
> With a true alternator setup, there is no permanent magnet in the
> rotor, so without a certain amount of current from the battery, you can
> generate any juice to run the ignition. Totally dead battery me4ans
> totally dead vehicle.
>
> With a magneto setup (like my XRL) if the battery is dead flat, then
> you can push-start.
>
> But are there any dirt/dualsport bikes with a true alternator? (might
> be better to say, analternator without a permanent magnet, but I think
> that's why they call it a magneto...)
>
> Personally, I could kill Honda for eliminating the kicker from the XRL.
>
> DDave
My DRZ400 lacks a kick start too and I find that totally stupid.
Although I would think it could be push-started since I don't believe it
has fuel injection, like the Cannondale Scrape has. Man, and to think
now you must add a battery to your backpack on those long trail riding
days. Just what you need, an extra couple of kilos to carry around with.
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| Re: NOT [message #777901 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 09:13 |
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Jeff Deeney wrote:
> "Rowdy" <ask-djones-for-this-part [at] gmx.net> wrote in message
>> Why's that? The gearing wouldn't change, would it?
>
> The XR600 countershaft has a machined shoulder on the right hand side
> that isn't present on the XRL part. It's where the idler gear for the
> kick starter resides. Shortly after I rebuild HellSickle, a
> cow-orker frag'd an XR600. I could have picked up the kickstarter
> parts for cheap.
Ouch!
>> Try a wr450f if you can. Single kick staring hot or cold,
>> summer or winter. (but of course she certainly ain't a MXer)
>
> I'll book my flights for next week. Are you going to be
> around? :-)
Next week i'll be a couple days in Luxembourg and the week after
i'll be in Dublin, but Thur-Sun i'm at home in any case, so when
can i pick you up? ;-]
Rowdy
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| Re: OT [message #777906 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 13:46 |
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Eat Dirt wrote:
> My DRZ400 lacks a kick start too and I find that totally stupid.
> Although I would think it could be push-started since I don't believe it
> has fuel injection, like the Cannondale Scrape has. Man, and to think
> now you must add a battery to your backpack on those long trail riding
days. Just what you need, an extra couple of kilos to
carry around with.
Suzuki makes a kit to add a kick-starter to the DRZ400.
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| Re: OT [message #777912 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 15:25 |
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scrapeNOTHANKS [at] nc.rr.com wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:56:19 -0600, Eat Dirt <no_email [at] no_email.no>
> wrote:
>
> >> And off road bikes that will not run without a charged battery are a
> >> dangerous design as far as I'm concerned. Seriously inconvenient at
> >> the very least.
> >
> >Nah, all you need is a bit of a downhill or a friend push-starting you.
> >A far bigger danger is a 4s bike that's stalled in a precarious place
> >and takes over 10 min of kicking to start (been there many times).
> >But yeah, no reason why they can't add a $130 kick start lever to a bike
> >in emergencies. after all they know dirt riding mean often you're 100 km
> >from civilization (or away from a good downhill)
>
>
> Nope. The ATKannondale will not bump start with a dead battery. The
> fuel injection needs 12v to operate. I found this out the hard way.
Now, *if* it had a good strong magneto (perm. mag alt) and *if* the
battery didn't draw the voltage down too much and *if* you could get it
spinning fast enough, you should get the magic 12V.
I wonder which ingrediants were missing?
DDave
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| Re: OT [message #777920 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 16:39 |
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On 14 Jul 2006 06:25:22 -0700, "XR650L_Dave" <spamTHISbrp [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> Nope. The ATKannondale will not bump start with a dead battery. The
>> fuel injection needs 12v to operate. I found this out the hard way.
>
>Now, *if* it had a good strong magneto (perm. mag alt) and *if* the
>battery didn't draw the voltage down too much and *if* you could get it
>spinning fast enough, you should get the magic 12V.
>I wonder which ingrediants were missing?
Not sure as I don't know krap about that system, but apparently, the
FI needs to have power to it from the battery in order to function at
all. The whole things seems stupid.
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| Re: OT [message #777924 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 17:08 |
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scrapeNOTHANKS [at] nc.rr.com wrote:
> On 14 Jul 2006 06:25:22 -0700, "XR650L_Dave" <spamTHISbrp [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Nope. The ATKannondale will not bump start with a dead battery. The
> >> fuel injection needs 12v to operate. I found this out the hard way.
> >
> >Now, *if* it had a good strong magneto (perm. mag alt) and *if* the
> >battery didn't draw the voltage down too much and *if* you could get it
> >spinning fast enough, you should get the magic 12V.
> >I wonder which ingrediants were missing?
>
> Not sure as I don't know krap about that system, but apparently, the
> FI needs to have power to it from the battery in order to function at
> all. The whole things seems stupid.
Yeah, what's inconvenient on a closed course becomes a much bigger deal
out in the boonies.
If it had a magneto, and could get to 12V bump starting, the FI
wouldn't be able to tell if the juice was from the battery or from the
magneto.
Probably the magneto is too weak to get 12V unless its spinning at a
few thou, or maybe they put a full alternator in the thing.
DDave
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| Re: NOT [message #777942 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 19:25 |
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"Rowdy" <ask-djones-for-this-part [at] gmx.net> wrote in message
news:75363$44b74409$5471908c$25291 [at] news.chello.at...
> Next week i'll be a couple days in Luxembourg and the week after
> i'll be in Dublin, but Thur-Sun i'm at home in any case, so when
> can i pick you up? ;-]
I'll have my people get ahold of your people. Expect a Lookout
notice in the mail.
-Jeff Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-HellSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
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| Re: OT [message #778002 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 06:55 |
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In article <EuLtg.4400$vO.4166 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Chris Buckley <cnbuckley [at] less.spam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> Eat Dirt wrote:
>
> > My DRZ400 lacks a kick start too and I find that totally stupid.
> > Although I would think it could be push-started since I don't believe it
> > has fuel injection, like the Cannondale Scrape has. Man, and to think
> > now you must add a battery to your backpack on those long trail riding
> days. Just what you need, an extra couple of kilos to
> carry around with.
>
> Suzuki makes a kit to add a kick-starter to the DRZ400.
That makes sense since there's a model of this bike that has a kick
starter and no e-start. Wonder if such a kit would be hard to install
and cost too much?
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| Re: OT [message #778014 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 15:33 |
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Eat Dirt wrote:
> In article <EuLtg.4400$vO.4166 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> Chris Buckley <cnbuckley [at] less.spam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Eat Dirt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My DRZ400 lacks a kick start too and I find that totally stupid.
>>>Although I would think it could be push-started since I don't believe it
>>>has fuel injection, like the Cannondale Scrape has. Man, and to think
>>>now you must add a battery to your backpack on those long trail riding
>>
>> days. Just what you need, an extra couple of kilos to
>>carry around with.
>>
>>Suzuki makes a kit to add a kick-starter to the DRZ400.
>
>
> That makes sense since there's a model of this bike that has a kick
> starter and no e-start. Wonder if such a kit would be hard to install
> and cost too much?
As I recall from a friend who bought one a few years ago, it
was around 250 U.S. dollars(Ouch!!). It's fairly easy to
install, you have to remove the engine side case, remove the
plug that blocks the hole for the kick starter, install the
shaft/gear/ratchet assy, reinstall the side case and mount
the kick start lever. If you tip the bike over on it's other
side before removing the side case, you probably won't lose
any oil.
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| Re: OT [message #778028 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 23:32 |
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In article <V86ug.7814$ye3.956 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Chris Buckley <cnbuckley [at] less.spam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> Eat Dirt wrote:
> > In article <EuLtg.4400$vO.4166 [at] newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > Chris Buckley <cnbuckley [at] less.spam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Eat Dirt wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>My DRZ400 lacks a kick start too and I find that totally stupid.
> >>>Although I would think it could be push-started since I don't believe it
> >>>has fuel injection, like the Cannondale Scrape has. Man, and to think
> >>>now you must add a battery to your backpack on those long trail riding
> >>
> >> days. Just what you need, an extra couple of kilos to
> >>carry around with.
> >>
> >>Suzuki makes a kit to add a kick-starter to the DRZ400.
> >
> >
> > That makes sense since there's a model of this bike that has a kick
> > starter and no e-start. Wonder if such a kit would be hard to install
> > and cost too much?
>
> As I recall from a friend who bought one a few years ago, it
> was around 250 U.S. dollars(Ouch!!). It's fairly easy to
> install, you have to remove the engine side case, remove the
> plug that blocks the hole for the kick starter, install the
> shaft/gear/ratchet assy, reinstall the side case and mount
> the kick start lever. If you tip the bike over on it's other
> side before removing the side case, you probably won't lose
> any oil.
Good insurance but man, that's a steep price for something that may
never get used. Guess another good insurance policy is to replace the
battery with a new one every 2 years or so.
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