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Motorcycles » rec.motorcycles.tech » Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice
| Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777716] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 13:40 |
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I have a new 2006 ZZR600. Like to know what is the best exhaust slip-on
for my bike. My bike is fully stock and no mods have been made. Like to
get some extra HP out of it...what is the best way to do this?
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777717 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 17:09 |
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martinelli [at] gmail.com wrote:
> I have a new 2006 ZZR600. Like to know what is the best exhaust slip-on
> for my bike.
Oh, yass. Buy the most expen$ive slip-on can you can find. Get a
slip-on that's made of iridescent unobtanium and has a faux carbon
fibre cover and the signature of somebody who sounds like a dead
Italian dreamer. It will make the $eller $mile.
Bzzzzt! Aftermarket exhaust pipes don't do very much (if anything) for
increasing your power. In fact, you may realize LESS horsepower than
stock if the slip-on has less back pressure.
That's because Kawasaki engineers worked hard to design an exhaust
system that would give you the best all around performance out of an
engine that doesn't pollute the planet very much.
Exhaust systems have a tuned length. The tuned length works with the
speed of sound in the hot exhaust gasses. If you change the temperature
of the hot exhaust gasses, you change the speed of sound through those
gasses.
If you install a louder aftermarket slip-on can, the temperature in the
exhaust gasses will be cooler, so the careful tuning the Kawasaki
engineers did is for nothing, the exhaust pollutes more and the rider
feels the midrange flat spot that the engineers worked so hard to
minimize.
But you can easily make the exhaust gasses hot enough to make the
exhaust tuning work again. You just have to run the engine harder, by
using more throttle and more RPM. If you ride very, very, very hard,
you may get a "performance award" from the local constable.
But that's not what you really *wanted* when you selected a slip-on
canister.
Besides "bragging rights", you *really* wanted more mid range and low
end torque so your machine would be more responsive in street riding.
And you wanted a deeper, more "mellow" sound, like you'd get from a
larger displacement motorcycle.
You wanted other riders and car drivers to RESPECT you.
Why not just buy a ZX-7R, or a GSXR-1000? No money?
> My bike is fully stock and no mods have been made. Like to
> get some extra HP out of it...what is the best way to do this?
You don't REALLY want more horsepower. Horsepower is the mathematical
product of an engineering equation that says Horsepower equals (torque
X RPM) divided by 5252.
You can easily see from that f you want more power, you have to turn
the engine faster and you have to risk making more noise and attracting
the attention of the stern gentleman with the citation book and
enduring the sneering myopia of the magistrate as you pay the fine and
promise to remove the offending canister and never use it again.
What you REALLY want is more TORQUE at a lower RPM.
You REALLY want more roll-on response, you really want your machine to
have snappy acceleration from a stoplight or when you need to show an
automobile driver who is boss.
One way to get snappy acceleration is to change the gearing. This
modification doesn't actually give you more TORQUE, it just MULTIPLIES
the torque that your stock engine produces.
Install a rear sprocket with three more teeth, or install a front
sprocket with one less tooth. You probably don't ride all day in 6th
gear at 130 mph anyway, unless maybe you go to France and head for the
Bol D'Or.
Another way to get snappy response is to install an ignition advancer,
if such a thing is available for your machine. It's a bit that bolts to
the end of the crankshaft and makes the ignition fire 3 to 5 degrees
before the standard timing. That really helps the mid range, because
you do get a little more torque in the dreaded flat spot around 5,000
to 8,000 RPM.
While you're about that modification, you can also find the anti-tamper
plugs on your carburetors. They are probably underneath, just forward
of the float bowls. I have described drilling out the anti-tamper plugs
about a bazillion times so I won't repeat that here.
Once you can get to the idle mixture screws, opening them 1/4 to 1/2 of
a turn will make your engine respond to the throttle much better.
Now, back to the original issue of after-market slip-on canisters. You
will hear guys with more money than sense standing around with a bunch
of other sportriders and loudly boasting about how their $25,000 Ducati
999 Corsa runs SO MUCH BETTER with the Leo Vince signature can or the
Termite slip-on.
But, if aftermarket cans don't actually DO anything, what else did the
Bucks Up Bozos do to make their machines run enough better that they
could feel it close to their anuses?
Answer: they changed the fuel injection mapping and the ignition curve
in their ECU
by plugging their laptop into it and reprogramming the chip.
Perhaps you still want a deeper, more masculine sound from your stock
exhaust system? There is probably a drain hole in the stock muffler
that lets condensation drip out. This helps keep the exhaust system
from rusting out prematurely.
The drain hole is probably very close to the exhaust collector. Take an
electric drill and make the hole progressively larger, until you get
the authoritative sound that excites you.
Then, if the constable stops you for a loud exhaust system, you can
just thread a large sheetmetal screw into the larger hole and take your
machine down to the inspection station and get the citation cleared
off.
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777719 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 23:13 |
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wow nice response. great feedback. i am not interested in being loud.
not interested in showing off. i just want a tad more torque. i have
never added anything to my other bikes and this is my first semi sport
bike. so, the idea of a sproket mod seems attractive. I just would
like to have a sped from the start than what i am getting from the
stock system. i look forward to researching sproket solutions....any
ideas where/what i can use/get? thanks!
FB wrote:
> martinelli [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > I have a new 2006 ZZR600. Like to know what is the best exhaust slip-on
> > for my bike.
>
> Oh, yass. Buy the most expen$ive slip-on can you can find. Get a
> slip-on that's made of iridescent unobtanium and has a faux carbon
> fibre cover and the signature of somebody who sounds like a dead
> Italian dreamer. It will make the $eller $mile.
>
> Bzzzzt! Aftermarket exhaust pipes don't do very much (if anything) for
> increasing your power. In fact, you may realize LESS horsepower than
> stock if the slip-on has less back pressure.
>
> That's because Kawasaki engineers worked hard to design an exhaust
> system that would give you the best all around performance out of an
> engine that doesn't pollute the planet very much.
>
> Exhaust systems have a tuned length. The tuned length works with the
> speed of sound in the hot exhaust gasses. If you change the temperature
> of the hot exhaust gasses, you change the speed of sound through those
> gasses.
>
> If you install a louder aftermarket slip-on can, the temperature in the
> exhaust gasses will be cooler, so the careful tuning the Kawasaki
> engineers did is for nothing, the exhaust pollutes more and the rider
> feels the midrange flat spot that the engineers worked so hard to
> minimize.
>
> But you can easily make the exhaust gasses hot enough to make the
> exhaust tuning work again. You just have to run the engine harder, by
> using more throttle and more RPM. If you ride very, very, very hard,
> you may get a "performance award" from the local constable.
>
> But that's not what you really *wanted* when you selected a slip-on
> canister.
>
> Besides "bragging rights", you *really* wanted more mid range and low
> end torque so your machine would be more responsive in street riding.
> And you wanted a deeper, more "mellow" sound, like you'd get from a
> larger displacement motorcycle.
>
> You wanted other riders and car drivers to RESPECT you.
>
> Why not just buy a ZX-7R, or a GSXR-1000? No money?
>
> > My bike is fully stock and no mods have been made. Like to
> > get some extra HP out of it...what is the best way to do this?
>
> You don't REALLY want more horsepower. Horsepower is the mathematical
> product of an engineering equation that says Horsepower equals (torque
> X RPM) divided by 5252.
>
> You can easily see from that f you want more power, you have to turn
> the engine faster and you have to risk making more noise and attracting
> the attention of the stern gentleman with the citation book and
> enduring the sneering myopia of the magistrate as you pay the fine and
> promise to remove the offending canister and never use it again.
>
> What you REALLY want is more TORQUE at a lower RPM.
>
> You REALLY want more roll-on response, you really want your machine to
> have snappy acceleration from a stoplight or when you need to show an
> automobile driver who is boss.
>
> One way to get snappy acceleration is to change the gearing. This
> modification doesn't actually give you more TORQUE, it just MULTIPLIES
> the torque that your stock engine produces.
>
> Install a rear sprocket with three more teeth, or install a front
> sprocket with one less tooth. You probably don't ride all day in 6th
> gear at 130 mph anyway, unless maybe you go to France and head for the
> Bol D'Or.
>
> Another way to get snappy response is to install an ignition advancer,
> if such a thing is available for your machine. It's a bit that bolts to
> the end of the crankshaft and makes the ignition fire 3 to 5 degrees
> before the standard timing. That really helps the mid range, because
> you do get a little more torque in the dreaded flat spot around 5,000
> to 8,000 RPM.
>
> While you're about that modification, you can also find the anti-tamper
> plugs on your carburetors. They are probably underneath, just forward
> of the float bowls. I have described drilling out the anti-tamper plugs
> about a bazillion times so I won't repeat that here.
>
> Once you can get to the idle mixture screws, opening them 1/4 to 1/2 of
> a turn will make your engine respond to the throttle much better.
>
> Now, back to the original issue of after-market slip-on canisters. You
> will hear guys with more money than sense standing around with a bunch
> of other sportriders and loudly boasting about how their $25,000 Ducati
> 999 Corsa runs SO MUCH BETTER with the Leo Vince signature can or the
> Termite slip-on.
>
> But, if aftermarket cans don't actually DO anything, what else did the
> Bucks Up Bozos do to make their machines run enough better that they
> could feel it close to their anuses?
>
> Answer: they changed the fuel injection mapping and the ignition curve
> in their ECU
> by plugging their laptop into it and reprogramming the chip.
>
> Perhaps you still want a deeper, more masculine sound from your stock
> exhaust system? There is probably a drain hole in the stock muffler
> that lets condensation drip out. This helps keep the exhaust system
> from rusting out prematurely.
>
> The drain hole is probably very close to the exhaust collector. Take an
> electric drill and make the hole progressively larger, until you get
> the authoritative sound that excites you.
>
> Then, if the constable stops you for a loud exhaust system, you can
> just thread a large sheetmetal screw into the larger hole and take your
> machine down to the inspection station and get the citation cleared
> off.
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777721 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 23:51 |
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omnio wrote:
> FB wrote:
>> martinelli [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>> I have a new 2006 ZZR600. Like to know what is the best exhaust slip-on
>>> for my bike.
>> Bzzzzt! Aftermarket exhaust pipes don't do very much (if anything) for
>> increasing your power. In fact, you may realize LESS horsepower than
>> stock if the slip-on has less back pressure.
>>
>> That's because Kawasaki engineers worked hard to design an exhaust
>> system that would give you the best all around performance out of an
>> engine that doesn't pollute the planet very much.
> wow nice response. great feedback. i am not interested in being loud.
> not interested in showing off. i just want a tad more torque. i have
> never added anything to my other bikes and this is my first semi sport
> bike. so, the idea of a sproket mod seems attractive. I just would
> like to have a sped from the start than what i am getting from the
> stock system. i look forward to researching sproket solutions....any
> ideas where/what i can use/get? thanks!
You got excellent advice. Whether you decide to take it is up to you.
Forget about bolting on parts, your bike is already tuned to the nuts
and you are very unlikely to be able to improve it, even with professional
help without spending huge amounts of money, and it still is unlikely
to be as nice to ride on the street as a stock bike.
Also forget about messing with the sprockets. The stock ones are just
fine. If you insist on spending money, buy yourself an advanced riding
school. The most return on your dollars (fun / $) is in improving your
riding skills.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13 '81 CM400T
OMF #7
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777724 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 01:43 |
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"Mark Olson" <olsonm [at] tiny.net> wrote in
news:12bior4317h5p6e [at] corp.supernews.com...
>
> You got excellent advice. Whether you decide to take it is up to you.
> Forget about bolting on parts, your bike is already tuned to the nuts
> and you are very unlikely to be able to improve it, even with professional
> help without spending huge amounts of money, and it still is unlikely
> to be as nice to ride on the street as a stock bike.
Sage words. These 100+ HP 600's are the amazing result of a HP
race in a very competitive market segment. The designers had
to spend a bit of work to get there, they sure did not slap on a bad
exhaust system or let the shop apprentice progam the fuel injection
(I'm only guessing here but I suspect this bike has FI and finding
anti-tamper plugs might prove exedingly hard).
> Also forget about messing with the sprockets. The stock ones are just
> fine.
I still can't make any sense out of lowering the gearing on a bike
that will smoke the rear tire without trouble. How will making more
smoke with less throttle get you to the next stop light any faster?
Apart from drag racing or racing on a closed circuit, all that changing
the gearing will do in performance terms is to move your shift
points. And it might get you a few more km/h more top speed, how
exciting.
> If you insist on spending money, buy yourself an advanced riding
> school. The most return on your dollars (fun / $) is in improving your
> riding skills.
The OP said nothing about going faster, he wanted more HP ;-)
--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777727 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:57 |
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OH- wrote:
>
> Sage words. These 100+ HP 600's are the amazing result of a HP
> race in a very competitive market segment. The designers had
> to spend a bit of work to get there, they sure did not slap on a bad
> exhaust system or let the shop apprentice progam the fuel injection
> (I'm only guessing here but I suspect this bike has FI and finding
> anti-tamper plugs might prove exedingly hard).
The Canadian model has carburetors. I dunno what the European and
British models might have, but, if the idle circuits can be easily
tweaked, the OP can help out the off-idle response and the cold
starting and warm up phase.
Kawasaki also has KTric digital ignition to enhance mid-range
performance, so maybe the OP can reprogram his ignition advance more to
his liking.
His aftermarket canister idea is unlikely to produce more than maybe 1
horsepower extra.
> I still can't make any sense out of lowering the gearing on a bike
> that will smoke the rear tire without trouble. How will making more
> smoke with less throttle get you to the next stop light any faster?
It's claimed that the ZZR600 has 111 horsepower, so maybe it will smoke
the tire. But, if it won't and the OP wants to "hooliganize" his
machine for less than $75, he might get his jollies that way instead of
mucking about in the oily innards of his engine and doing nothing but
making the machine harder to ride.
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777728 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 05:20 |
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omnio wrote:
> wow nice response. great feedback. i am not interested in being loud.
> not interested in showing off. i just want a tad more torque. i have
> never added anything to my other bikes and this is my first semi sport
> bike. so, the idea of a sproket mod seems attractive. I just would
> like to have a sped from the start than what i am getting from the
> stock system. i look forward to researching sproket solutions....any
> ideas where/what i can use/get? thanks!
When your original equipment chain and sprockets wear out, try an
aftermarket sprocket kit to see if you like the performance of a
motorcycle that is "geared" slightly lower.
Check out the advertisement pages of whatever motorcycle magazines are
popular where you live and see what mail order companies advertise in
them and go to their online catalogue site or telephone them for a free
catalog.
Here in the USA, Sprocket Specialists and RK have aftermarket chain and
sprocket kits for less than half the price of an original equipment
chain and sprockets.
My GSXR750 was geared a bit tall from the factory, I didn't really
*need* to go 150 mph, 140 mph is plenty fast.
So my roadracing friend (who just happened to run a mail order parts
business)advised me to install a rear sprocket with just two more teeth
than stock. Another rider on a GSXR1000 asked what kind of work I had
done to the engine when he had a hard time catching me.
I told him, "No internal engine work, just larger carburetors, a loud
competition only Yoshimura exhaust pipe, and two more teeth on the rear
sprocket. Oh, and a 5 degree ignition advancer under the side cover."
That's as deep as I wanted to go into that engine.
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777734 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 22:39 |
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FB <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> Bzzzzt! Aftermarket exhaust pipes don't do very much (if anything) for
> increasing your power. In fact, you may realize LESS horsepower than
> stock if the slip-on has less back pressure.
To be fair, and brutally honest, some bikes are indeed restricted by
strangled cans, and a surprising amount of horsepower can be liberated
by swift can change.. The Suzuki 1200 Bandit is a prime example (see
earlier thread).
The ZZR600 is not in this category, however.
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD250 Z650
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777735 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 22:39 |
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OH- <ole.holmblad.hat [at] comhem.se.hat> wrote:
> I suspect this bike has FI
Erm, you suspect wrong.
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD250 Z650
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777736 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 22:53 |
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The Older Gentleman wrote:
> FB <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Bzzzzt! Aftermarket exhaust pipes don't do very much (if anything) for
>> increasing your power. In fact, you may realize LESS horsepower than
>> stock if the slip-on has less back pressure.
>
> To be fair, and brutally honest, some bikes are indeed restricted by
> strangled cans, and a surprising amount of horsepower can be liberated
> by swift can change.. The Suzuki 1200 Bandit is a prime example (see
> earlier thread).
>
> The ZZR600 is not in this category, however.
A category that pretty much includes all the 600 class sportbikes,
if you're making 100 hp out of 600cc what chance does Mr. Average
Joe have of getting more power than the smart guys who designed the
bike? Yes, I know the standard refrain about race exhausts not
needing to adhere to dB limits, but as has been pointed out the
designers do a superb job of making power without excessive noise.
And even if you do manage to eke out an extra pony or two, it will
most likely come at the price of making the powerband very peaky
and not at all fun to ride on the street.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13 '81 CM400T
OMF #7
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| Re: Kawi ZZR600 Slip-on/HP Advice [message #777737 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 23:04 |
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Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.net> wrote:
> The Older Gentleman wrote:
> > FB <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Bzzzzt! Aftermarket exhaust pipes don't do very much (if anything) for
> >> increasing your power. In fact, you may realize LESS horsepower than
> >> stock if the slip-on has less back pressure.
> >
> > To be fair, and brutally honest, some bikes are indeed restricted by
> > strangled cans, and a surprising amount of horsepower can be liberated
> > by swift can change.. The Suzuki 1200 Bandit is a prime example (see
> > earlier thread).
> >
> > The ZZR600 is not in this category, however.
>
> A category that pretty much includes all the 600 class sportbikes,
> if you're making 100 hp out of 600cc what chance does Mr. Average
> Joe have of getting more power than the smart guys who designed the
> bike? Yes, I know the standard refrain about race exhausts not
> needing to adhere to dB limits, but as has been pointed out the
> designers do a superb job of making power without excessive noise.
>
> And even if you do manage to eke out an extra pony or two, it will
> most likely come at the price of making the powerband very peaky
> and not at all fun to ride on the street.
Agree absolutely.
However, one must always beware of sweeping generalisations. Some
aftermarket cans work very well.
--
Trophy 1200 750SS CB400F CD250 Z650
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
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