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Producers » rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys » My recent experience with Amsoil
| My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777195] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 12:58 |
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A few weeks ago I bought a modified D***e pickup. Yesterday, I went
over down the way to an Amsoil dealer and got some of the hypoid gear
oil and transmission gear oil products and changed out the oil in the
(probably stock) rear end and the Clark 5 speed transmission. I drove
it around a while and within a half hour, the Clark transmission was
shifting easier and running quieter. it's still loud, they all are, but
it is definitely quieter.
We'll see how this turns out. My next project is going to be to put a
Frantz oil filter and a remote full flow filter on the engine. I have
also bought a set of heads as I am going to clean up the ports on them
and then have Stellite seats and Inconel valves installed in them so I
can swap them out in a day and not have the truck down. Then I'm going
to have the bed rhinolined and when that's all done, the large propane
tank I found for $50 and am having cleaned and hydrotested will go in
there. I'm going to convert her over to straight propane. When I do
that I probably will go over to synthetic oil.
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777210 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 16:06 |
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Why would you promote, let alone use snake oil in your Jeep?
The stuff is so bad it will void any warranty you have. If you're out
of warranty, then it will just kill your equipment with no recourse.
Gotta love the Spamsoil 'warranty'. "when your engine blows" and the
dealer refuses you warranty, you can send the engine to spamsoil and
they will diagnose it. If 'they' feel it isn't the oil's fault, you are
screwed and out a whopping shipping fee and an engine. LOL!
PT Barnum stuff.
But I guess you don't make a lot of sense anyway so why would you use a
real product instead of promoting garbage and foolish ideas.
Most of us on this group actually own and 'like' our Jeeps. Why would
we want to purposely abuse them to death.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> A few weeks ago I bought a modified D***e pickup. Yesterday, I went
> over down the way to an Amsoil dealer and got some of the hypoid gear
> oil and transmission gear oil products and changed out the oil in the
> (probably stock) rear end and the Clark 5 speed transmission. I drove
> it around a while and within a half hour, the Clark transmission was
> shifting easier and running quieter. it's still loud, they all are, but
> it is definitely quieter.
>
> We'll see how this turns out. My next project is going to be to put a
> Frantz oil filter and a remote full flow filter on the engine. I have
> also bought a set of heads as I am going to clean up the ports on them
> and then have Stellite seats and Inconel valves installed in them so I
> can swap them out in a day and not have the truck down. Then I'm going
> to have the bed rhinolined and when that's all done, the large propane
> tank I found for $50 and am having cleaned and hydrotested will go in
> there. I'm going to convert her over to straight propane. When I do
> that I probably will go over to synthetic oil.
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777218 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 17:03 |
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Most of the synthetic oil brands are certified by the appropriate agency
(API)
The certification tests are expensive $125-300K (US) each.... is this why
Amsoil refuses to have them certified or do they not pass spec?
Who knows..
For some interesting background information on motor oils see the page at
the link below. I'll warn you... it was written by an engineer and is 12
pages long..
In it he describes brands of conventional dino oil that are almost as good
as synthetics at a more reasonable price and you are probably already
familiar with their names!!
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
"Mike Romain" <romainm [at] sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44B8F655.DC8348E5 [at] sympatico.ca...
> Why would you promote, let alone use snake oil in your Jeep?
>
> The stuff is so bad it will void any warranty you have. If you're out
> of warranty, then it will just kill your equipment with no recourse.
>
> Gotta love the Spamsoil 'warranty'. "when your engine blows" and the
> dealer refuses you warranty, you can send the engine to spamsoil and
> they will diagnose it. If 'they' feel it isn't the oil's fault, you are
> screwed and out a whopping shipping fee and an engine. LOL!
>
> PT Barnum stuff.
>
> But I guess you don't make a lot of sense anyway so why would you use a
> real product instead of promoting garbage and foolish ideas.
>
> Most of us on this group actually own and 'like' our Jeeps. Why would
> we want to purposely abuse them to death.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>
>> A few weeks ago I bought a modified D***e pickup. Yesterday, I went
>> over down the way to an Amsoil dealer and got some of the hypoid gear
>> oil and transmission gear oil products and changed out the oil in the
>> (probably stock) rear end and the Clark 5 speed transmission. I drove
>> it around a while and within a half hour, the Clark transmission was
>> shifting easier and running quieter. it's still loud, they all are, but
>> it is definitely quieter.
>>
>> We'll see how this turns out. My next project is going to be to put a
>> Frantz oil filter and a remote full flow filter on the engine. I have
>> also bought a set of heads as I am going to clean up the ports on them
>> and then have Stellite seats and Inconel valves installed in them so I
>> can swap them out in a day and not have the truck down. Then I'm going
>> to have the bed rhinolined and when that's all done, the large propane
>> tank I found for $50 and am having cleaned and hydrotested will go in
>> there. I'm going to convert her over to straight propane. When I do
>> that I probably will go over to synthetic oil.
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777223 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 18:44 |
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religious discussions again?
I had a witch doctor perform incantations on my 76 Goldwing. 350,000 miles
on dino oil and running strong.
He is Certified by the Tobacco Institute!
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777228 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 20:34 |
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I will stick my 2 cents in here, just because. I build engines for three
guys locally that compete in high level demolition derbies. All of them run
Chevy small blocks. It is very common that these engines run without any
water to cool them, or at least no fan because it gets busted off, but
usually the radiator is what hits the fan to mess it up. Of course the
radiator gets taken out at the same time. These guys run remote oil and
tranny coolers, which consist of a stainless box full of cooling tubes and
packed with ice before each heat or feature. They also run their fuel
through a similar setup with the thought that anything cooler than the
engine will absorb some heat as it passes through the engine.
Anyway, when I started doing the engines for these guys, they were having to
rebuild their engines after 2 or maybe 3 derbies. The things that usually
fail are the head gaskets between the middle two cylinders, and the
bearings. Also, many times they were experiencing very accelerated camshaft
wear and piston pin seizing, which I believe came from the oil breaking
down. these engines get HOT!!! We used one of those temperature guns to
check the surface temp of the engine block, and have recorded a temperature
of 600F! Oil does not like that, of course.
Anyway, these guys had tried several oils, including Rotella, which seems to
get good reviews, especially since it is a dino oil, and many people these
days seem to think that any engine will fail if it doesn't have synthetic
flowing through it.
I will say that in extreme situations of high temperature, or other extreme
conditions, there may be some advantage to true synthetic, or oil with some
additives that others don't have anymore. We tried Schaefer synthetic oil in
these derby engines, and found something very interesting. The bearing life
has pretty much doubled, and the camshaft failures have disappeared, but the
latter is probably due to the fact that this particular oil still has the
zinc additive, which many oils do not have any more. I have talked to a
couple tech people at different cam companies, and they said that cam
failures have gone up 20-30% since the zinc has been taken out of most oils.
This applies to non-roller camshafts only. The other thing I noticed about
this oil is that when it is drained after a day of derbies, it has not
turned black like the other oils have. Every other oil we were using came
out of the engines looking like it had been run in a diesel for 5000 miles
and was black as could be. It also seemed like the oils was much thinner,
but I have no scientific proof of that, we just noticed it visually, and to
the touch.
Again, this is just my 2 cents, but I can say I'm sold on it, at least for
extreme conditions like these.
Chris
I'm not saying that this oil is great because it is synthetic, but I think
it may be better than some because of the additives that it has retained.
There are probably others that have these same additives.
"billy ray" <billy_ray [at] SPAMfuse.net> wrote in message
news:7a6c1$44b903ff$48311525$25127 [at] FUSE.NET...
> Most of the synthetic oil brands are certified by the appropriate agency
> (API)
>
> The certification tests are expensive $125-300K (US) each.... is this why
> Amsoil refuses to have them certified or do they not pass spec?
>
> Who knows..
>
> For some interesting background information on motor oils see the page at
> the link below. I'll warn you... it was written by an engineer and is 12
> pages long..
>
> In it he describes brands of conventional dino oil that are almost as good
> as synthetics at a more reasonable price and you are probably already
> familiar with their names!!
>
> http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm [at] sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44B8F655.DC8348E5 [at] sympatico.ca...
>> Why would you promote, let alone use snake oil in your Jeep?
>>
>> The stuff is so bad it will void any warranty you have. If you're out
>> of warranty, then it will just kill your equipment with no recourse.
>>
>> Gotta love the Spamsoil 'warranty'. "when your engine blows" and the
>> dealer refuses you warranty, you can send the engine to spamsoil and
>> they will diagnose it. If 'they' feel it isn't the oil's fault, you are
>> screwed and out a whopping shipping fee and an engine. LOL!
>>
>> PT Barnum stuff.
>>
>> But I guess you don't make a lot of sense anyway so why would you use a
>> real product instead of promoting garbage and foolish ideas.
>>
>> Most of us on this group actually own and 'like' our Jeeps. Why would
>> we want to purposely abuse them to death.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>>
>>> A few weeks ago I bought a modified D***e pickup. Yesterday, I went
>>> over down the way to an Amsoil dealer and got some of the hypoid gear
>>> oil and transmission gear oil products and changed out the oil in the
>>> (probably stock) rear end and the Clark 5 speed transmission. I drove
>>> it around a while and within a half hour, the Clark transmission was
>>> shifting easier and running quieter. it's still loud, they all are, but
>>> it is definitely quieter.
>>>
>>> We'll see how this turns out. My next project is going to be to put a
>>> Frantz oil filter and a remote full flow filter on the engine. I have
>>> also bought a set of heads as I am going to clean up the ports on them
>>> and then have Stellite seats and Inconel valves installed in them so I
>>> can swap them out in a day and not have the truck down. Then I'm going
>>> to have the bed rhinolined and when that's all done, the large propane
>>> tank I found for $50 and am having cleaned and hydrotested will go in
>>> there. I'm going to convert her over to straight propane. When I do
>>> that I probably will go over to synthetic oil.
>
>
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777240 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:09 |
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> Anyway, when I started doing the engines for these guys, they were having to
> rebuild their engines after 2 or maybe 3 derbies. The things that usually
> fail are the head gaskets between the middle two cylinders, and the
> bearings. Also, many times they were experiencing very accelerated camshaft
> wear and piston pin seizing, which I believe came from the oil breaking
> down. these engines get HOT!!! We used one of those temperature guns to
> check the surface temp of the engine block, and have recorded a temperature
> of 600F! Oil does not like that, of course.
>
> Anyway, these guys had tried several oils, including Rotella, which seems to
> get good reviews, especially since it is a dino oil, and many people these
> days seem to think that any engine will fail if it doesn't have synthetic
> flowing through it.
>
> I will say that in extreme situations of high temperature, or other extreme
> conditions, there may be some advantage to true synthetic, or oil with some
> additives that others don't have anymore. We tried Schaefer synthetic oil in
> these derby engines, and found something very interesting. The bearing life
> has pretty much doubled, and the camshaft failures have disappeared, but the
> latter is probably due to the fact that this particular oil still has the
> zinc additive, which many oils do not have any more. I have talked to a
> couple tech people at different cam companies, and they said that cam
> failures have gone up 20-30% since the zinc has been taken out of most oils.
> This applies to non-roller camshafts only. The other thing I noticed about
> this oil is that when it is drained after a day of derbies, it has not
> turned black like the other oils have. Every other oil we were using came
> out of the engines looking like it had been run in a diesel for 5000 miles
> and was black as could be. It also seemed like the oils was much thinner,
> but I have no scientific proof of that, we just noticed it visually, and to
> the touch.
>
Certification tests are very expensive which is why several of the
synthetic specialist vendors don't do them. Picking on Amsoil when
Bel-Ray, Klotz, Schafer and others also do not is being Mike Romain, a
typical hardon against a product he doesnt like so he cuntmouths it.
Pretty much all the synthetic vendors do the same thing, they sell
niche products for specific uses. Harley Davidson oil and aircraft oils
are also uncertified. But lots of (car) racers run them and in my
experience Aeroshell AD is the ONLY oil for pushrod VW or Corvair
engines.
I don't particularly endorse synthetic oil for most diesel or gasoline
engine use because I don't think drain intervals can be safely
lengthened hugely beyond dino oil with those fuels. Alcohols, LPG or
LNG/CNG are a different proposition. But for extreme duty use like
Arctic or desert ops, yes. And for gear oils, so far, I'm thinking yes
too.
Buy Bel-Ray or Klotz and pay more and go to more trouble or buy Amsoil
from the guy down the street. Your money and time. Personally I think
Amsoil has done some good by offering a product that does work and is
available without a lot of chasing. I put an Amsoil decal on my bumper.
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777242 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:34 |
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"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152994195.626987.306020 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
----snippy----
> I put an Amsoil decal on my bumper.
>
That's real special, Bret, but there is no need for some of the language and
personal attack you used in the rest of your post.
Earle
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777243 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:50 |
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Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> Certification tests are very expensive which is why several of the
> synthetic specialist vendors don't do them. Picking on Amsoil <Snip potty mouth BS>
They are sleaze bags that sell snake oil products that will void engine
warranties.
I have enough dirt on their product and methods that their lawyers came
after me with a gag order about what 'facts' I have about their sleaze.
You act like the stuff was legit, it isn't, it's pure snake oil and
folks should know the other side of the coin.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777248 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 00:31 |
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Mike Romain wrote:
> Bret Ludwig wrote:
> >
> > Certification tests are very expensive which is why several of the
> > synthetic specialist vendors don't do them. Picking on Amsoil <Snip potty mouth BS>
>
> They are sleaze bags that sell snake oil products that will void engine
> warranties.
They tell you upfront how and where warranties are affected. How many
warranty claims are disallowed by automobile vendors for using Amsoil
where it was changed at a reasonable interrval? My guess, none.
>
> I have enough dirt on their product and methods that their lawyers came
> after me with a gag order about what 'facts' I have about their sleaze.
>
> You act like the stuff was legit, it isn't, it's pure snake oil and
> folks should know the other side of the coin.
So are Bel-Ray and Klotz snake oil vendors too?
Castrol R will ruin any new car warranty too, guaranteed. Is Castrol a
snake oil vendor because they still make Castrol R available? (To be
fair you have to get it privately imported in the US because Americans
will not read labels.)
Shell, Chevron, and Phillips 66 all make engine oil products that will
wreck your engine too unless you have a very unusual application.
The ONLY engines Amsoil has ever ruined, are Lawn Boy two cycles and
Continental 520 and 550 cid engines running heavily leaded avgas. They
are upfront about it. If you have an old engine with huge mileage
(time) on it and switch to any synthetic failing seals are not
impossible. That's true of all synthetics. They maybe should be a
little more open about this but let's face it, people would not pay
attention anyway.
You have a pathological hard on for Amsoil. It's that simple. People
with sense who use it where synthetics are appropriate have few
problems. If you have a diesel Benz in Minnesota, synthetic oil means
the difference between starting and not starting in the winter if your
block heater craps out. Amsoil was selling synthetic oil back when no
one else was and most Amsoil dealers are basically honest people. But
if you prefer to use a different brand that's fine. Just don't blow a
load of fermented dog poop all over the place because some idiot
somewhere had a problem with it by not using common sense.
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777265 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 02:36 |
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> Certification tests are very expensive which is why several of the
> synthetic specialist vendors don't do them. Picking on Amsoil when
Since Amsoil has been so successful, and is such a fine product, you would
think that they would be able to afford the certification tests and remove
this major obstacle. If it can pass the tests, many would agree that it must
be a decent product, but as long as a salesman makes claims based upon a
secret independent laboratory's results (The Tobacco Institute?), it is very
questionable and looks fishy.
Even though it could be a decent product, the lack of certification, the
spammy advertising, and the pyramid marketing scheme are all repugnant and
will prevent me from using it.
Funny how a little outfit like Swepco can get API certification and Amsoil
can't.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777266 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 02:56 |
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Stupendous Man wrote:
> Funny how a little outfit like Swepco can get API certification and Amsoil
> can't.
From what I understand if you change the base you must get
re-certificantion. It seems like the cheapest base changes all the
time. It is not the cost of certification but the repeated costs of
re-certification that causes this stuff to not be certified. It may be
great stuff but when they start the shuck and dance about certification
I see snake oil..
--
Jim
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777279 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:20 |
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When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished study
is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
"Stupendous Man" <spam [at] trap.com> wrote in message
news:4htg09F17aj0U1 [at] individual.net...
>> Certification tests are very expensive which is why several of the
>> synthetic specialist vendors don't do them. Picking on Amsoil when
>
>
> Since Amsoil has been so successful, and is such a fine product, you would
> think that they would be able to afford the certification tests and remove
> this major obstacle. If it can pass the tests, many would agree that it
> must be a decent product, but as long as a salesman makes claims based
> upon a secret independent laboratory's results (The Tobacco Institute?),
> it is very questionable and looks fishy.
> Even though it could be a decent product, the lack of certification, the
> spammy advertising, and the pyramid marketing scheme are all repugnant and
> will prevent me from using it.
> Funny how a little outfit like Swepco can get API certification and Amsoil
> can't.
> --
> Stupendous Man,
> Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
>
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777281 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:37 |
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Shell, Chevron, and Phillips 66 make aircraft oils that are certified for
use in AIRCRAFT.
They do not actively market them to the automotive market and it would
therefore not be prudent to test them for automotive certification.
I don't know why Amsoil isn't certified.
In the back of my mind it the nagging doubt that something *might* be
deficient in their formulation. I am sure that there are others, like
myself, that hesitate for this fact alone.
As for the cost.... well.... I know a guy that discounts his Amsoil
products.... thing is.... his price to me for 75w-140 gear lube (delivered)
works out to be the same price as paying retail at AutoZone for Mobil 1 and
30% more than paying retail at NAPA for Royal Purple both of which are API
certified..
"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1153002673.816439.321330 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>> >
>> > Certification tests are very expensive which is why several of the
>> > synthetic specialist vendors don't do them. Picking on Amsoil <Snip
>> > potty mouth BS>
>>
>> They are sleaze bags that sell snake oil products that will void engine
>> warranties.
>
> They tell you upfront how and where warranties are affected. How many
> warranty claims are disallowed by automobile vendors for using Amsoil
> where it was changed at a reasonable interrval? My guess, none.
>
>>
>> I have enough dirt on their product and methods that their lawyers came
>> after me with a gag order about what 'facts' I have about their sleaze.
>>
>> You act like the stuff was legit, it isn't, it's pure snake oil and
>> folks should know the other side of the coin.
>
>
> So are Bel-Ray and Klotz snake oil vendors too?
>
> Castrol R will ruin any new car warranty too, guaranteed. Is Castrol a
> snake oil vendor because they still make Castrol R available? (To be
> fair you have to get it privately imported in the US because Americans
> will not read labels.)
>
> Shell, Chevron, and Phillips 66 all make engine oil products that will
> wreck your engine too unless you have a very unusual application.
>
> The ONLY engines Amsoil has ever ruined, are Lawn Boy two cycles and
> Continental 520 and 550 cid engines running heavily leaded avgas. They
> are upfront about it. If you have an old engine with huge mileage
> (time) on it and switch to any synthetic failing seals are not
> impossible. That's true of all synthetics. They maybe should be a
> little more open about this but let's face it, people would not pay
> attention anyway.
>
> You have a pathological hard on for Amsoil. It's that simple. People
> with sense who use it where synthetics are appropriate have few
> problems. If you have a diesel Benz in Minnesota, synthetic oil means
> the difference between starting and not starting in the winter if your
> block heater craps out. Amsoil was selling synthetic oil back when no
> one else was and most Amsoil dealers are basically honest people. But
> if you prefer to use a different brand that's fine. Just don't blow a
> load of fermented dog poop all over the place because some idiot
> somewhere had a problem with it by not using common sense.
>
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777285 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:52 |
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And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
they're printed on.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished study
> is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777292 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 05:30 |
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Now Bill...... the key to reading a government study is that they will
always give the desired result.... that is how the grants are apportioned.
"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:44B9A9FB.CAE36EF8 [at] cox.net...
> And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
> they're printed on.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> billy ray wrote:
>>
>> When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished
>> study
>> is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777308 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 06:39 |
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Indeed.
My father worked for a very reputable company that does contract
research. One time they got a contract for to do a study for the EPA
and the results came out 180 deg. off from what the EPA wanted.
The EPA refused to pay for the study because they didn't like the results.
Eventually they did pay (it might even had gone to court), but it sure
says a lot about the quality of government sponsored "science".
Jeff DeWitt
billy ray wrote:
> Now Bill...... the key to reading a government study is that they will
> always give the desired result.... that is how the grants are apportioned.
>
>
> "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
> news:44B9A9FB.CAE36EF8 [at] cox.net...
>
>> And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
>>they're printed on.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>>
>>billy ray wrote:
>>
>>>When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished
>>>study
>>>is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
>
>
>
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777338 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 18:32 |
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You should be proud of your father for not fudging the results to give the
EPA what they wanted.
Earle
"Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Ppjug.9343$4c7.4628 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> Indeed.
>
> My father worked for a very reputable company that does contract
> research. One time they got a contract for to do a study for the EPA
> and the results came out 180 deg. off from what the EPA wanted.
>
> The EPA refused to pay for the study because they didn't like the results.
>
> Eventually they did pay (it might even had gone to court), but it sure
> says a lot about the quality of government sponsored "science".
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> billy ray wrote:
> > Now Bill...... the key to reading a government study is that they will
> > always give the desired result.... that is how the grants are
apportioned.
> >
> >
> > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:44B9A9FB.CAE36EF8 [at] cox.net...
> >
> >> And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
> >>they're printed on.
> >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> >>
> >>billy ray wrote:
> >>
> >>>When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished
> >>>study
> >>>is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
> >
> >
> >
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #777348 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 20:43 |
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Di his father ever get another EPA contract?
"Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton [at] msn.com> wrote in message
news:44ba673d$0$23740$a82e2bb9 [at] reader.athenanews.com...
> You should be proud of your father for not fudging the results to give the
> EPA what they wanted.
>
> Earle
>
> "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Ppjug.9343$4c7.4628 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>> Indeed.
>>
>> My father worked for a very reputable company that does contract
>> research. One time they got a contract for to do a study for the EPA
>> and the results came out 180 deg. off from what the EPA wanted.
>>
>> The EPA refused to pay for the study because they didn't like the
>> results.
>>
>> Eventually they did pay (it might even had gone to court), but it sure
>> says a lot about the quality of government sponsored "science".
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>> billy ray wrote:
>> > Now Bill...... the key to reading a government study is that they will
>> > always give the desired result.... that is how the grants are
> apportioned.
>> >
>> >
>> > "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
>> > news:44B9A9FB.CAE36EF8 [at] cox.net...
>> >
>> >> And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
>> >>they're printed on.
>> >> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> >>mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>> >>
>> >>billy ray wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished
>> >>>study
>> >>>is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #784135 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 02:57 |
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Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
Earle Horton wrote:
>
> You should be proud of your father for not fudging the results to give the
> EPA what they wanted.
>
> Earle
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #784136 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 03:05 |
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Scientist that don't agree the earth is in a global warming period
are out of a job. Ice in our glacier still hold ten times our carbon
content.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Di his father ever get another EPA contract?
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #784143 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 04:08 |
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Are these the same scientists that taught us that dramatic climate change
was a common occurrence in the earth's history?
Just who was driving their SUV 10,000 years ago that caused the last one?
"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:44BAE241.ECBA68BF [at] cox.net...
> Scientist that don't agree the earth is in a global warming period
> are out of a job. Ice in our glacier still hold ten times our carbon
> content.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> billy ray wrote:
>>
>> Di his father ever get another EPA contract?
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #784148 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 02:42 |
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Dad was the most honest man I've ever known.
I don't know what happened between that company and the EPA after that
but they are doing very well.
Jeff DeWitt
billy ray wrote:
> Di his father ever get another EPA contract?
>
>
> "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton [at] msn.com> wrote in message
> news:44ba673d$0$23740$a82e2bb9 [at] reader.athenanews.com...
>
>>You should be proud of your father for not fudging the results to give the
>>EPA what they wanted.
>>
>>Earle
>>
>>"Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:Ppjug.9343$4c7.4628 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>>
>>>Indeed.
>>>
>>>My father worked for a very reputable company that does contract
>>>research. One time they got a contract for to do a study for the EPA
>>>and the results came out 180 deg. off from what the EPA wanted.
>>>
>>>The EPA refused to pay for the study because they didn't like the
>>>results.
>>>
>>>Eventually they did pay (it might even had gone to court), but it sure
>>>says a lot about the quality of government sponsored "science".
>>>
>>>Jeff DeWitt
>>>
>>>billy ray wrote:
>>>
>>>>Now Bill...... the key to reading a government study is that they will
>>>>always give the desired result.... that is how the grants are
>>
>>apportioned.
>>
>>>>
>>>>"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:44B9A9FB.CAE36EF8 [at] cox.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
>>>>>they're printed on.
>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>>mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>billy ray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished
>>>>>>study
>>>>>>is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #784152 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 05:37 |
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> Just who was driving their SUV 10,000 years ago that caused the last one?
>
>
It was BILL! lol.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
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| Re: My recent experience with Amsoil [message #784154 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 05:38 |
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There is a funny story about how honest my Dad was.
One time he had to go to Las Vegas on businesss, now Dad was a smoker
(and that's why he is no longer with us), and he really liked the ash
trays in the hotel room.
So when he was packing up to leave he took one of the ash trays. When
he got to checkout he told them that he had taken one of their ash trays
and wanted to know how much he owed them for it.
The clerk was totally flummoxed, no one had ever asked him a question
like that.
After going back and forth a bit the clerk finally told him to just
leave <G>.
Jeff DeWitt
Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> Dad was the most honest man I've ever known.
>
> I don't know what happened between that company and the EPA after that
> but they are doing very well.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> billy ray wrote:
>
>> Di his father ever get another EPA contract?
>>
>>
>> "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton [at] msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:44ba673d$0$23740$a82e2bb9 [at] reader.athenanews.com...
>>
>>> You should be proud of your father for not fudging the results to
>>> give the
>>> EPA what they wanted.
>>>
>>> Earle
>>>
>>> "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Ppjug.9343$4c7.4628 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
>>>
>>>> Indeed.
>>>>
>>>> My father worked for a very reputable company that does contract
>>>> research. One time they got a contract for to do a study for the EPA
>>>> and the results came out 180 deg. off from what the EPA wanted.
>>>>
>>>> The EPA refused to pay for the study because they didn't like the
>>>> results.
>>>>
>>>> Eventually they did pay (it might even had gone to court), but it sure
>>>> says a lot about the quality of government sponsored "science".
>>>>
>>>> Jeff DeWitt
>>>>
>>>> billy ray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Now Bill...... the key to reading a government study is that they will
>>>>> always give the desired result.... that is how the grants are
>>>
>>>
>>> apportioned.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" <billhughes [at] cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:44B9A9FB.CAE36EF8 [at] cox.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> And all government grant studies are worth less than the paper
>>>>>> they're printed on.
>>>>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>>>> mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> billy ray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I was in college the professor used to say that "An unpublished
>>>>>>> study
>>>>>>> is not worth the paper it isn't written on."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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