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Producers » rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys » CJ Steering Box advice
| CJ Steering Box advice [message #777168] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 04:27 |
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Howdy,
I've got a lot of play between the steering shaft and my manual
steering box. Would buying a steering box overhaul kit do the trick
or am would i just be better off buying a whole new box.
Thanks!
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #777171 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 04:38 |
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Usually when we notice the steering is loose, the sector end play
adjustment is not enough. It's time for a new one:
http://www.quadratec.com/products/56112_00.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
ddintaman [at] myactv.net wrote:
>
> Howdy,
> I've got a lot of play between the steering shaft and my manual
> steering box. Would buying a steering box overhaul kit do the trick
> or am would i just be better off buying a whole new box.
>
> Thanks!
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #777207 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 15:53 |
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It depends on where the play is. From your description, it sound like
you need a column, not a box. The box only comes with a spline sticking
out. The u-joint fitting there is part of the column.
The boxes can be tightened up usually if there is play between the input
shaft and output shaft. If that is it, post back and I will type out
the directions.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
ddintaman [at] myactv.net wrote:
>
> Howdy,
> I've got a lot of play between the steering shaft and my manual
> steering box. Would buying a steering box overhaul kit do the trick
> or am would i just be better off buying a whole new box.
>
> Thanks!
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #777239 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:00 |
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I watched all the pieces leading down to the steering box while turning
the steering wheel and everything seemed tight. The spine sticking out
of the box turned exactly when i turned the wheel. However, i had to
turn the wheel a good bit before the pitman arm does anything on the
other side.
Thanks!
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #777241 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:30 |
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"1978CJDon" <ddintaman [at] myactv.net> wrote in message
news:1152993629.829302.55710 [at] i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I watched all the pieces leading down to the steering box while turning
> the steering wheel and everything seemed tight. The spine sticking out
> of the box turned exactly when i turned the wheel. However, i had to
> turn the wheel a good bit before the pitman arm does anything on the
> other side.
>
> Thanks!
>
That usually means that the steering box has seen better days. Sometimes
you can adjust the play in the internals, but if you don't do this right the
box is likely to bind up on you.
Earle
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #777244 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 23:24 |
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Ok, the adjuster plug is the part where the spline comes out. It has a
large locknut on it that can be removed with pump pliers or channel
locks and 2 holes in it for a special tool used to turn it. The tool
looks like the one used to put grinder wheels in, but a punch and a tap
with a hammer can turn it.
It is supposed to be turned tight, then marked and backed up 1/8" from
the mark, then tighten back up the lock nut.
The other adjuster on the top is for the gear preload and has to be set
in a vise, you can't do it on the vehicle. It just makes it how tight
it is to turn, not how much play there is.
If that doesn't help, then it could be new box time.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
1978CJDon wrote:
>
> I watched all the pieces leading down to the steering box while turning
> the steering wheel and everything seemed tight. The spine sticking out
> of the box turned exactly when i turned the wheel. However, i had to
> turn the wheel a good bit before the pitman arm does anything on the
> other side.
>
> Thanks!
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784303 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 18:42 |
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Are you sure that the play is in the box?
There's a bearing at the bottom of the steering column tube. It is held
in a plastic disk with a wire "C" clip retainer. Because it is exposed
to road dirt (and because few even know it is there and it never gets
cleaned or greased) it tends to get eaten up and fall apart. Simple
test: grab the steering shaft near the U joint at the bottom of the tube
and shake it -- if it moves more than a little bit the bearing is gone.
It is a GM part and itself easy to replace, but you'll have to either
pull the steering wheel and the steering column out of the Jeep to do
it, or part the shaft at the U joint and slide the shaft up into the
tube a ways.
ddintaman [at] myactv.net wrote:
> Howdy,
> I've got a lot of play between the steering shaft and my manual
> steering box. Would buying a steering box overhaul kit do the trick
> or am would i just be better off buying a whole new box.
>
> Thanks!
>
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784361 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 11:31 |
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ddintaman [at] myactv.net wrote:
> Howdy,
> I've got a lot of play between the steering shaft and my manual
> steering box. Would buying a steering box overhaul kit do the trick
> or am would i just be better off buying a whole new box.
>
> Thanks!
Get your front-end on jack stands. On the steering box, loosen the
lock-nut on the adjusting set-screw, then tighten the set-screw bit by
bit till you feel the steering bind when you turn the steering wheel
(make sure you turn it full-stop in both directions as you go, because
sometimes the rack and pinion gears will bind in an area that's less
worn than the other areas). When you feel it binding a bit, stop and
re-tighten the lock-nut. If the adjusting set-screw bottoms out and
you still have play, and the rest of the linkage seems ok, then a
rebuild kit would be in order. It would be a rare thing to have to
replace the whole box unless it exhibited obvious trail damage.
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784371 ] |
Thu, 20 July 2006 15:25 |
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KayakBill wrote:
>
> ddintaman [at] myactv.net wrote:
> > Howdy,
> > I've got a lot of play between the steering shaft and my manual
> > steering box. Would buying a steering box overhaul kit do the trick
> > or am would i just be better off buying a whole new box.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> Get your front-end on jack stands. On the steering box, loosen the
> lock-nut on the adjusting set-screw, then tighten the set-screw bit by
> bit till you feel the steering bind when you turn the steering wheel
> (make sure you turn it full-stop in both directions as you go, because
> sometimes the rack and pinion gears will bind in an area that's less
> worn than the other areas). When you feel it binding a bit, stop and
> re-tighten the lock-nut. If the adjusting set-screw bottoms out and
> you still have play, and the rest of the linkage seems ok, then a
> rebuild kit would be in order. It would be a rare thing to have to
> replace the whole box unless it exhibited obvious trail damage.
You are implying he should tighten the gear preload screw. That does
'not' adjust play, it only adjusts how much force is needed or 'over
center' torque. This must be set in a vise because it is measured in
inch pounds on the shaft.
If you tighten up this top screw, you 'will' destroy the steering box.
The 'adjuster plug' is the part that screws in around the steering
shaft. This is what controls the free play on the shaft.
I have a PDF on rebuilding the box that has the directions on tightening
it up. I outlined the directions earlier in this thread but could send
the pdf to anyone that needs it.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784436 ] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 12:45 |
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Actually, that's not a "pre-load" set-screw. Gears can not be
"pre-loaded" as bearings can. The OE I.P.B. identifies this screw as
the "steering gear adjuster". I've had this '73 CJ-5 since '81, and
I've adjusted this "steering gear adjuster" many, many times to
eliminate steering wheel play, and it works every time. The pinion
gear's teeth are cut on a compound angle, and the farther down onto the
rack gear you push it the tighter the engagement. It was designed and
machined this way to adjust for wear using the "steering gear
adjuster". They even have a hole in the crossmember over it for access
to this "steering gear adjuster" while it's mounted on the vehicle.
I've adjusted mine over the last 25 years of daily driving to the point
that the set-screw is now so deep that there aren't enuf threads
exposed for the lock-nut anymore, so I just look at it frequently.
Luckily it hasn't backed out a bit in the last year of daily driving
since I last adjusted this "steering gear adjuster".
Not sure where the thought that this would "destroy" anything came
from, but I can assure you that what you're saying is not correct.
They designed this box for adusting the steering gears to eliminate
play, they positioned the adjuster in a convienient location and
designed the crossmember with an access hole so you can adjust easily
it.
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784444 ] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 15:48 |
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I have the instructions here for rebuilding the Saganaw steering box
found in most CJ's and have actually done a few, one recently.
The screw in the top with the locknut on it is the adjuster for the over
center torque or the pitman adjuster. This makes it harder to turn the
wheel by meshing the gears harder together. Like you I used to use that
to 'tighten' up boxes until I knew better.
As you have noted, it mashes the gears until you have no more adjustment
left, then the steering box is trash.
If you are going to adjust this, you put the box in a vise and tighten
it down until the steering shaft has 4 to 5 inch pounds of rotational
torque on it. This cannot be accomplished easily in the vehicle.
The adjustment for a loose steering shaft is the adjuster plug in the
end where the shaft enters. This will take the right left slop out of
the steering wheel without hurting the gears.
The best way is to take the box out and do the whole thing.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
KayakBill wrote:
>
> Actually, that's not a "pre-load" set-screw. Gears can not be
> "pre-loaded" as bearings can. The OE I.P.B. identifies this screw as
> the "steering gear adjuster". I've had this '73 CJ-5 since '81, and
> I've adjusted this "steering gear adjuster" many, many times to
> eliminate steering wheel play, and it works every time. The pinion
> gear's teeth are cut on a compound angle, and the farther down onto the
> rack gear you push it the tighter the engagement. It was designed and
> machined this way to adjust for wear using the "steering gear
> adjuster". They even have a hole in the crossmember over it for access
> to this "steering gear adjuster" while it's mounted on the vehicle.
> I've adjusted mine over the last 25 years of daily driving to the point
> that the set-screw is now so deep that there aren't enuf threads
> exposed for the lock-nut anymore, so I just look at it frequently.
> Luckily it hasn't backed out a bit in the last year of daily driving
> since I last adjusted this "steering gear adjuster".
>
> Not sure where the thought that this would "destroy" anything came
> from, but I can assure you that what you're saying is not correct.
> They designed this box for adusting the steering gears to eliminate
> play, they positioned the adjuster in a convienient location and
> designed the crossmember with an access hole so you can adjust easily
> it.
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784448 ] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 16:53 |
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Oh and if the adjuster plug on the end won't tighten up the steering,
then you would need to mess with the gear mesh screw. I just think it
is best to start at the right end of things.
Mike
Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have the instructions here for rebuilding the Saganaw steering box
> found in most CJ's and have actually done a few, one recently.
>
> The screw in the top with the locknut on it is the adjuster for the over
> center torque or the pitman adjuster. This makes it harder to turn the
> wheel by meshing the gears harder together. Like you I used to use that
> to 'tighten' up boxes until I knew better.
>
> As you have noted, it mashes the gears until you have no more adjustment
> left, then the steering box is trash.
>
> If you are going to adjust this, you put the box in a vise and tighten
> it down until the steering shaft has 4 to 5 inch pounds of rotational
> torque on it. This cannot be accomplished easily in the vehicle.
>
> The adjustment for a loose steering shaft is the adjuster plug in the
> end where the shaft enters. This will take the right left slop out of
> the steering wheel without hurting the gears.
>
> The best way is to take the box out and do the whole thing.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> KayakBill wrote:
> >
> > Actually, that's not a "pre-load" set-screw. Gears can not be
> > "pre-loaded" as bearings can. The OE I.P.B. identifies this screw as
> > the "steering gear adjuster". I've had this '73 CJ-5 since '81, and
> > I've adjusted this "steering gear adjuster" many, many times to
> > eliminate steering wheel play, and it works every time. The pinion
> > gear's teeth are cut on a compound angle, and the farther down onto the
> > rack gear you push it the tighter the engagement. It was designed and
> > machined this way to adjust for wear using the "steering gear
> > adjuster". They even have a hole in the crossmember over it for access
> > to this "steering gear adjuster" while it's mounted on the vehicle.
> > I've adjusted mine over the last 25 years of daily driving to the point
> > that the set-screw is now so deep that there aren't enuf threads
> > exposed for the lock-nut anymore, so I just look at it frequently.
> > Luckily it hasn't backed out a bit in the last year of daily driving
> > since I last adjusted this "steering gear adjuster".
> >
> > Not sure where the thought that this would "destroy" anything came
> > from, but I can assure you that what you're saying is not correct.
> > They designed this box for adusting the steering gears to eliminate
> > play, they positioned the adjuster in a convienient location and
> > designed the crossmember with an access hole so you can adjust easily
> > it.
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784474 ] |
Fri, 21 July 2006 22:34 |
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Is this the old GM 'recirculation ball and nut" steering box they used for
decades?
"Mike Romain" <romainm [at] sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:44C0DB28.502BCA7A [at] sympatico.ca...
>I have the instructions here for rebuilding the Saganaw steering box
> found in most CJ's and have actually done a few, one recently.
>
> The screw in the top with the locknut on it is the adjuster for the over
> center torque or the pitman adjuster. This makes it harder to turn the
> wheel by meshing the gears harder together. Like you I used to use that
> to 'tighten' up boxes until I knew better.
>
> As you have noted, it mashes the gears until you have no more adjustment
> left, then the steering box is trash.
>
> If you are going to adjust this, you put the box in a vise and tighten
> it down until the steering shaft has 4 to 5 inch pounds of rotational
> torque on it. This cannot be accomplished easily in the vehicle.
>
> The adjustment for a loose steering shaft is the adjuster plug in the
> end where the shaft enters. This will take the right left slop out of
> the steering wheel without hurting the gears.
>
> The best way is to take the box out and do the whole thing.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> KayakBill wrote:
>>
>> Actually, that's not a "pre-load" set-screw. Gears can not be
>> "pre-loaded" as bearings can. The OE I.P.B. identifies this screw as
>> the "steering gear adjuster". I've had this '73 CJ-5 since '81, and
>> I've adjusted this "steering gear adjuster" many, many times to
>> eliminate steering wheel play, and it works every time. The pinion
>> gear's teeth are cut on a compound angle, and the farther down onto the
>> rack gear you push it the tighter the engagement. It was designed and
>> machined this way to adjust for wear using the "steering gear
>> adjuster". They even have a hole in the crossmember over it for access
>> to this "steering gear adjuster" while it's mounted on the vehicle.
>> I've adjusted mine over the last 25 years of daily driving to the point
>> that the set-screw is now so deep that there aren't enuf threads
>> exposed for the lock-nut anymore, so I just look at it frequently.
>> Luckily it hasn't backed out a bit in the last year of daily driving
>> since I last adjusted this "steering gear adjuster".
>>
>> Not sure where the thought that this would "destroy" anything came
>> from, but I can assure you that what you're saying is not correct.
>> They designed this box for adusting the steering gears to eliminate
>> play, they positioned the adjuster in a convienient location and
>> designed the crossmember with an access hole so you can adjust easily
>> it.
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784480 ] |
Sat, 22 July 2006 00:30 |
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Yup, that's the puppy I am talking about, the Saganaw unit.
KayakBill has been lucky and it has apparently taken him many years to
eat up the gears on his. Most that I see with the gear mesh tightened
down die within a year or two. I.e. No adjustment left like his now
is.
My 86's still has the original overtorque setting on it with only the
'adjuster plug' having been tightened so it is still in excellent shape.
Mike
billy ray wrote:
>
> Is this the old GM 'recirculation ball and nut" steering box they used for
> decades?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm [at] sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:44C0DB28.502BCA7A [at] sympatico.ca...
> >I have the instructions here for rebuilding the Saganaw steering box
> > found in most CJ's and have actually done a few, one recently.
> >
> > The screw in the top with the locknut on it is the adjuster for the over
> > center torque or the pitman adjuster. This makes it harder to turn the
> > wheel by meshing the gears harder together. Like you I used to use that
> > to 'tighten' up boxes until I knew better.
> >
> > As you have noted, it mashes the gears until you have no more adjustment
> > left, then the steering box is trash.
> >
> > If you are going to adjust this, you put the box in a vise and tighten
> > it down until the steering shaft has 4 to 5 inch pounds of rotational
> > torque on it. This cannot be accomplished easily in the vehicle.
> >
> > The adjustment for a loose steering shaft is the adjuster plug in the
> > end where the shaft enters. This will take the right left slop out of
> > the steering wheel without hurting the gears.
> >
> > The best way is to take the box out and do the whole thing.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=211514759 0
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > KayakBill wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, that's not a "pre-load" set-screw. Gears can not be
> >> "pre-loaded" as bearings can. The OE I.P.B. identifies this screw as
> >> the "steering gear adjuster". I've had this '73 CJ-5 since '81, and
> >> I've adjusted this "steering gear adjuster" many, many times to
> >> eliminate steering wheel play, and it works every time. The pinion
> >> gear's teeth are cut on a compound angle, and the farther down onto the
> >> rack gear you push it the tighter the engagement. It was designed and
> >> machined this way to adjust for wear using the "steering gear
> >> adjuster". They even have a hole in the crossmember over it for access
> >> to this "steering gear adjuster" while it's mounted on the vehicle.
> >> I've adjusted mine over the last 25 years of daily driving to the point
> >> that the set-screw is now so deep that there aren't enuf threads
> >> exposed for the lock-nut anymore, so I just look at it frequently.
> >> Luckily it hasn't backed out a bit in the last year of daily driving
> >> since I last adjusted this "steering gear adjuster".
> >>
> >> Not sure where the thought that this would "destroy" anything came
> >> from, but I can assure you that what you're saying is not correct.
> >> They designed this box for adusting the steering gears to eliminate
> >> play, they positioned the adjuster in a convienient location and
> >> designed the crossmember with an access hole so you can adjust easily
> >> it.
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| Re: CJ Steering Box advice [message #784485 ] |
Sat, 22 July 2006 02:06 |
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Yes, and the 1963 Chevy's bracket were an easy conversion for the
Jeepers, older than the 1972 AMC that came with it.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd [at] aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Is this the old GM 'recirculation ball and nut" steering box they used for
> decades?
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