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Producers » rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang » I can screw up anything...
| I can screw up anything... [message #776764] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 18:20 |
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TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator pedal
just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would jump to
2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up for a bit, it
was (relatively) fine.
Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic recommended
swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally decided to clean
the sucker and see what happens.
Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the MAM.
Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I also
cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go. Crank,
crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual, but no
start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No start.
Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
filaments, and now the car won't start...
dwight
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776768 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 21:29 |
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"dwight" <tfrog93 [at] gEEmail.com> wrote in
news:m8qdnQs_gfNOiCTZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com:
> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>
> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much
> gas smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the
> accelerator pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and
> the RPMs would jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again.
> After warming up for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>
> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>
> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>
> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as
> usual, but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>
> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
> start.
>
> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>
> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple
> of filaments, and now the car won't start...
>
> dwight
Is the MAF wire plugged in tight? Did the coil wire slip off the
distributor? Just a few thoughts.
As for the symptoms up top, have you checked the idle air bypass on the
throttle body? That thing could be cruddy.
Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776769 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 21:30 |
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dwight wrote:
> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>
> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
> smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator pedal
> just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would jump to
> 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up for a bit, it
> was (relatively) fine.
>
> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic recommended
> swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally decided to clean
> the sucker and see what happens.
>
> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the MAM.
> Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I also
> cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>
> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go. Crank,
> crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual, but no
> start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>
> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No start.
>
> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>
> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
> filaments, and now the car won't start...
>
> dwight
>
>
Well, quick and fairly inexpensive, put in a different (used or
borrowed) and see what happens. You really aren't supposed to touch the
filiment with anything, you may have broken it and just can't see it.
--
"I have a theory. Pyramids cause global warming. You notice,
everywhere those things are built, it's hot as hell?" - Quaestor
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776771 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 21:48 |
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dwight wrote:
> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>
> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
> smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator pedal
> just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would jump to
> 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up for a bit, it
> was (relatively) fine.
>
> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic recommended
> swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally decided to clean
> the sucker and see what happens.
>
> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the MAM.
> Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I also
> cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>
> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go. Crank,
> crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual, but no
> start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>
> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No start.
>
> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>
> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
> filaments, and now the car won't start...
Even if the MAF goes dead the computer has a fail-safe mode to let the
engine run and limp home or to a garage using temperature, BAP readings
etc. Try disconnecting it all together and see if it starts. I would
suggest checking all the other electrical connectors in the area of the
MAF like the idle speed control valve, throttle body etc. Maybe you
accidentally loosened one while messing with the MAF. I have cleaned
MAF sensors many times and don't find them to be as fragile as they
look. Actually the best cleaning solution I have found is brake parts
cleaner. It dries with no residue and works as well as electronic parts
cleaner.
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776772 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:37 |
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"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds [at] erols.com> wrote in message
news:lOednSpUlObi2yTZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> dwight wrote:
>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>
>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
>> smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator
>> pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would
>> jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up
>> for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>
>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>
>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
>> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
>> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
>> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
>> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>
>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual,
>> but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>
>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>> start.
>>
>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>
>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
>> filaments, and now the car won't start...
>
> Even if the MAF goes dead the computer has a fail-safe mode to let the
> engine run and limp home or to a garage using temperature, BAP readings
> etc. Try disconnecting it all together and see if it starts. I would
> suggest checking all the other electrical connectors in the area of the
> MAF like the idle speed control valve, throttle body etc. Maybe you
> accidentally loosened one while messing with the MAF. I have cleaned MAF
> sensors many times and don't find them to be as fragile as they look.
> Actually the best cleaning solution I have found is brake parts cleaner.
> It dries with no residue and works as well as electronic parts cleaner.
I really didn't touch anything but the two screws and the clip-on connector.
Really.
Very strange...
dwight
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776773 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:39 |
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"WindsorFox" <windsorfox [at] NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote in message
news:onbug.101961$IZ2.73924 [at] dukeread07...
> dwight wrote:
>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>
>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
>> smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator
>> pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would
>> jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up
>> for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>
>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>
>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
>> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
>> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
>> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
>> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>
>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual,
>> but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>
>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>> start.
>>
>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>
>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
>> filaments, and now the car won't start...
>>
>> dwight
>>
>>
>
> Well, quick and fairly inexpensive, put in a different (used or
> borrowed) and see what happens. You really aren't supposed to touch the
> filiment with anything, you may have broken it and just can't see it.
Hmmm.... Don't think so, but I happen to know where I can get my hands on
another one to try in TFrog (from CFrog). But now I'm scared to try anything
before I know what happened.
I don't need TWO dead Mustangs.
dwight
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776774 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:41 |
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"Joe" <nobody [at] home.now> wrote in message
news:Xns98019DA1619B2nospamforme [at] 216.77.188.18...
> "dwight" <tfrog93 [at] gEEmail.com> wrote in
> news:m8qdnQs_gfNOiCTZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com:
>
>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>
>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much
>> gas smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the
>> accelerator pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and
>> the RPMs would jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again.
>> After warming up for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>
>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>
>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
>> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
>> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
>> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
>> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>
>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as
>> usual, but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>
>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>> start.
>>
>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>
>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple
>> of filaments, and now the car won't start...
>>
>> dwight
>
> Is the MAF wire plugged in tight? Did the coil wire slip off the
> distributor? Just a few thoughts.
>
> As for the symptoms up top, have you checked the idle air bypass on the
> throttle body? That thing could be cruddy.
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
The car is trying to start, just like usual, but it seems there's no gas
getting to the mix. (That's why I checked the cut-off switch.) Otherwise,
everything sounds normal up to the point where it just doesn't fire.
There was only one change since I parked the car in the garage, and that was
removing, cleaning, and reinstalling the mass air meter. I can't imagine any
other variable in this situation...
dwight
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776775 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 22:49 |
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dwight wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds [at] erols.com> wrote in message
> news:lOednSpUlObi2yTZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>> dwight wrote:
>>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>>
>>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
>>> smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator
>>> pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would
>>> jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up
>>> for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>>
>>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>>
>>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
>>> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
>>> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
>>> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
>>> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>>
>>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual,
>>> but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>>
>>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>>> start.
>>>
>>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>>
>>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
>>> filaments, and now the car won't start...
>> Even if the MAF goes dead the computer has a fail-safe mode to let the
>> engine run and limp home or to a garage using temperature, BAP readings
>> etc. Try disconnecting it all together and see if it starts. I would
>> suggest checking all the other electrical connectors in the area of the
>> MAF like the idle speed control valve, throttle body etc. Maybe you
>> accidentally loosened one while messing with the MAF. I have cleaned MAF
>> sensors many times and don't find them to be as fragile as they look.
>> Actually the best cleaning solution I have found is brake parts cleaner.
>> It dries with no residue and works as well as electronic parts cleaner.
>
> I really didn't touch anything but the two screws and the clip-on connector.
> Really.
>
> Very strange...
Did you try starting it with the MAF unplugged?
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776777 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 23:02 |
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"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds [at] erols.com> wrote in message
news:hf6dnTude-JZySTZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> dwight wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds [at] erols.com> wrote in message
>> news:lOednSpUlObi2yTZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>> dwight wrote:
>>>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>>>
>>>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much
>>>> gas smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the
>>>> accelerator pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and
>>>> the RPMs would jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again.
>>>> After warming up for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>>>
>>>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>>>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>>>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
>>>> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
>>>> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
>>>> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
>>>> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>>>
>>>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>>>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as
>>>> usual, but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>>>
>>>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>>>> start.
>>>>
>>>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>>>
>>>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple
>>>> of filaments, and now the car won't start...
>>> Even if the MAF goes dead the computer has a fail-safe mode to let the
>>> engine run and limp home or to a garage using temperature, BAP readings
>>> etc. Try disconnecting it all together and see if it starts. I would
>>> suggest checking all the other electrical connectors in the area of the
>>> MAF like the idle speed control valve, throttle body etc. Maybe you
>>> accidentally loosened one while messing with the MAF. I have cleaned
>>> MAF sensors many times and don't find them to be as fragile as they
>>> look. Actually the best cleaning solution I have found is brake parts
>>> cleaner. It dries with no residue and works as well as electronic parts
>>> cleaner.
>>
>> I really didn't touch anything but the two screws and the clip-on
>> connector. Really.
>>
>> Very strange...
>
> Did you try starting it with the MAF unplugged?
Just tried unplugged, no difference. Removed the connection to the air
filter, but air flow doesn't appear to be the problem. Added gas, just in
case my fuel guage is lying, no difference.
The fuel pump whines, the starter cranks, no fire. Weird.
It was running when I parked it, cleaned those two filaments, and now
nothing. I hate weird.
dwight
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776778 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 23:16 |
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I believe in Simultaneous Failure and Cascading Disaster.
Cascading Disaster is when you fix one thing, but something else is now a
new problem because of it.
Simultaneous Failure is when your attention is drawn to one thing, while the
real problem is totally unconnected and in a different system altogether.
I suppose it's possible that, while the car was parked for a week, it
suddenly developed a fuel flow problem (the fuel filter isn't THAT old, but
it's possible that it was bad last week and now clogged. Stuff like that
happens with an old car.)
Actually, I'm sure there are a number of reasons that the fuel isn't
igniting or not reaching the combustion chamber. There's no gas smell, so I
suspect the latter, rather than the former.
Ah, well... At least the mass air meter is clean.
dwight
"dwight" <tfrog93 [at] gEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:m8qdnQs_gfNOiCTZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>
> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much gas
> smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the accelerator
> pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and the RPMs would
> jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again. After warming up for
> a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>
> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>
> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I also
> cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>
> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go. Crank,
> crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as usual, but no
> start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>
> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
> start.
>
> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>
> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple of
> filaments, and now the car won't start...
>
> dwight
>
>
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776781 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 00:42 |
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776784 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:38 |
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"dwight" <tfrog93 [at] gEEmail.com> wrote in
news:c_SdnVlOSZylxiTZnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d [at] comcast.com:
> I believe in Simultaneous Failure and Cascading Disaster.
>
> Cascading Disaster is when you fix one thing, but something else is
> now a new problem because of it.
>
> Simultaneous Failure is when your attention is drawn to one thing,
> while the real problem is totally unconnected and in a different
> system altogether.
>
> I suppose it's possible that, while the car was parked for a week, it
> suddenly developed a fuel flow problem (the fuel filter isn't THAT
> old, but it's possible that it was bad last week and now clogged.
> Stuff like that happens with an old car.)
>
> Actually, I'm sure there are a number of reasons that the fuel isn't
> igniting or not reaching the combustion chamber. There's no gas smell,
> so I suspect the latter, rather than the former.
>
> Ah, well... At least the mass air meter is clean.
>
> dwight
>
>
> "dwight" <tfrog93 [at] gEEmail.com> wrote in message
> news:m8qdnQs_gfNOiCTZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>
>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much
>> gas smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the
>> accelerator pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and
>> the RPMs would jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again.
>> After warming up for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>
>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>
>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed
>> the MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even
>> so, I oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of
>> alcohol. Sure enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While
>> I was at it, I also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>
>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as
>> usual, but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>
>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>> start.
>>
>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>
>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple
>> of filaments, and now the car won't start...
>>
>> dwight
I agree - it's happened to me before. My money's on something unrelated
to the MAF.
Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776786 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:45 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776787 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 05:08 |
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dwight wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds [at] erols.com> wrote in message
> news:hf6dnTude-JZySTZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>> dwight wrote:
>>> "Michael Johnson, PE" <cds [at] erols.com> wrote in message
>>> news:lOednSpUlObi2yTZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>> dwight wrote:
>>>>> TFrog... 1993 LX 5.0 5-speed, now with 196,600 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, lately it didn't like starting up when cold. VERY rich, too much
>>>>> gas smell in the exhaust, and it needed a little help with the
>>>>> accelerator pedal just to keep from stalling out. A little push, and
>>>>> the RPMs would jump to 2,000 and immediately want to fall off again.
>>>>> After warming up for a bit, it was (relatively) fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Couple of months ago, when it was in for a tune-up, the mechanic
>>>>> recommended swapping in a new mass air meter. Well, today, I finally
>>>>> decided to clean the sucker and see what happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bought my new set ot Torx drivers, took out two screws and removed the
>>>>> MAM. Yep, two tiny little filaments, but they looked fine. Even so, I
>>>>> oh-so-carefully wiped the down with Q-Tips and a bit of alcohol. Sure
>>>>> enough, a little dirt came off of those suckers. While I was at it, I
>>>>> also cleaned the contacts to the MAM.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh-so-gently replaced the unit and went to start up the car. No go.
>>>>> Crank, crank, crank, but no start. Yes, the fuel pump comes on as
>>>>> usual, but no start. Held the gas pedal to the floor, no start.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fine. Disconnected the battery for an hour to clear the computer. No
>>>>> start.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fine. Checked the emergency fuel shut-off in the back, no start.
>>>>>
>>>>> What the hell did I do? All I really did was take a Q-Tip to a couple
>>>>> of filaments, and now the car won't start...
>>>> Even if the MAF goes dead the computer has a fail-safe mode to let the
>>>> engine run and limp home or to a garage using temperature, BAP readings
>>>> etc. Try disconnecting it all together and see if it starts. I would
>>>> suggest checking all the other electrical connectors in the area of the
>>>> MAF like the idle speed control valve, throttle body etc. Maybe you
>>>> accidentally loosened one while messing with the MAF. I have cleaned
>>>> MAF sensors many times and don't find them to be as fragile as they
>>>> look. Actually the best cleaning solution I have found is brake parts
>>>> cleaner. It dries with no residue and works as well as electronic parts
>>>> cleaner.
>>> I really didn't touch anything but the two screws and the clip-on
>>> connector. Really.
>>>
>>> Very strange...
>> Did you try starting it with the MAF unplugged?
>
> Just tried unplugged, no difference. Removed the connection to the air
> filter, but air flow doesn't appear to be the problem. Added gas, just in
> case my fuel guage is lying, no difference.
>
> The fuel pump whines, the starter cranks, no fire. Weird.
>
> It was running when I parked it, cleaned those two filaments, and now
> nothing. I hate weird.
Do you have anything to test fuel pressure? If not you can use starter
fluid to tell if there is a fuel problem. Spray it into the intake and
see if it fires. If it does then I bet there is a fuel delivery issue.
Also, you can check the spark by unplugging a sprark plug wire and
leaving a small gap (1/8"-1/16") from the end to a ground. Crank the
car and see if a spark jumps across the gap.
You can swap MAF's between cars and see it that solves the problem.
Unless you butchered the MAF element while cleaning it I don't see it
being the problem.
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776788 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 05:29 |
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dwight wrote:
> Just tried unplugged, no difference. Removed the connection to the air
> filter, but air flow doesn't appear to be the problem. Added gas, just in
> case my fuel guage is lying, no difference.
>
> The fuel pump whines, the starter cranks, no fire. Weird.
>
> It was running when I parked it, cleaned those two filaments, and now
> nothing. I hate weird.
>
> dwight
>
>
Okay, what happened to me once was while working on a 88 Marquis
that was my grandma's that she gave me to sell, suddenly the igniter
module died in the Mustang. I was swapping parts here and there doing
tests to tune the Merc and suddenly the Mustang died. I took the igniter
out of the Merc and swapped and the Mustang started. So that could be a
possibility. I got to where I carry a new in the glove box along with
the little special made driver to change it.
--
"I have a theory. Pyramids cause global warming. You notice,
everywhere those things are built, it's hot as hell?" - Quaestor
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776791 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 06:42 |
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"lymee" <irish.lymee [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GLhug.5396$gT3.2998 [at] fe09.lga...
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:38:08 +0000, Joe wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I agree - it's happened to me before. My money's on something unrelated
> > to the MAF.
> >
> > Joe
> > Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> > Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>
> Same here.
> I had a fuel pump quit after I did a tuneup.....
> Drove me nuts for a week.
>
> My advice is go back to basics and forget about the MAF.
> Fuel and spark..
> Which one is missing?
> Any codes (MAF sets off codes like crazy!)
>
Sudden unexplained no start. My guess is the TFI module.
--
Richard
'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
3:73 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #776806 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 16:33 |
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>
> Sudden unexplained no start. My guess is the TFI module.
> --
> Richard
>
They usually fail when hot. You need to determine if it's missing fuel or
spark.
Simultaneous Failure: I was working on an old Pontiac V8 a number of years
ago. Simple problem, no spark. Found a bad rotor. No big deal, right?
Replace the cap and rotor and had good spark, but it still would not start.
While the guy that owned the car was cranking the crap out of it trying to
get it to start the timing chain jumped. Had a worn out plastic cam gear.
I'd almost bet the chain jumped and then the rotor being out of alignment
with the contacts in the cap caused the failure. Try explaining that to some
customer that has no idea what a spark plug is:)
Al
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| Re: I can screw up anything... [message #783672 ] |
Mon, 17 July 2006 21:46 |
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"Big Al" <sal1 [at] qwest.net> wrote in message
news:e9dibr$j5i$1 [at] nntp.aioe.org...
>
>>
>> Sudden unexplained no start. My guess is the TFI module.
>> --
>> Richard
>>
>
> They usually fail when hot. You need to determine if it's missing fuel or
> spark.
>
> Simultaneous Failure: I was working on an old Pontiac V8 a number of years
> ago. Simple problem, no spark. Found a bad rotor. No big deal, right?
> Replace the cap and rotor and had good spark, but it still would not
> start.
> While the guy that owned the car was cranking the crap out of it trying to
> get it to start the timing chain jumped. Had a worn out plastic cam gear.
> I'd almost bet the chain jumped and then the rotor being out of alignment
> with the contacts in the cap caused the failure. Try explaining that to
> some
> customer that has no idea what a spark plug is:)
>
> Al
>
>
I know that you swear you didn't touch anything else. But, its very easy to.
I'd check all electrical connections in and around the side of the motor you
worked on. Even with a bad or disconnected MAF the car should run at least
half assed.
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