| Alignment specs '94 GT [message #776752] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 06:35 |
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Does anyone have a recommended camber spec after installing the FRPP M5400-A
suspension system. None were included with the kit. While the FRPP C&C plate
kit offers some suggestions for various applications, I am still using the
stock camber plate so I'm uncertain as to whether to use these alignment
specs.
--
Richard
'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
3:73 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red
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| Re: Alignment specs '94 GT [message #776754 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 07:18 |
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Much will depend on how wide the front tires are.... the wider the tire, the
closer to zero you want camber. Negative camber will help cornering....
Up to about a half degree negative will be OK.
"Richard" <r-manders [at] shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Kg_tg.185651$iF6.61583 [at] pd7tw2no...
> Does anyone have a recommended camber spec after installing the FRPP
> M5400-A
> suspension system. None were included with the kit. While the FRPP C&C
> plate
> kit offers some suggestions for various applications, I am still using
> the
> stock camber plate so I'm uncertain as to whether to use these alignment
> specs.
>
> --
> Richard
>
> '94 GT 'vert
> Under Drive Pulleys
> Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
> High Stall Torque Converter
> 3:73 Gears
> Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
> FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
> FRPP M5400-A Suspension
> Laser Red
>
>
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| Re: Alignment specs '94 GT [message #776756 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 09:10 |
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"Jim Warman" <mechanic [at] telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:BU_tg.49768$B91.2274 [at] edtnps82...
> Much will depend on how wide the front tires are.... the wider the tire,
the
> closer to zero you want camber. Negative camber will help cornering....
>
> Up to about a half degree negative will be OK.
Tire size is 255/45/17 on 9" wide rims. Current settings are -.6 & -.4 (L&R)
There is no more positive adjustment available. The FRPP data sheet for the
M-18183-S3 CC Plates recommends the following camber settings:
General street use -.8 to -1.1
Aggressive Street handling -1.2 to -1.5
Road race/Autocross -1.8 to -2.5
There is also a note that less negative camber (-.5) gives less cornering
grip and more wear on the outside edge of the tire.
Ford service manual camber specs are nominal at -.6, minumum -1.35, maximum
+.15
It is the wear that is presently occuring that caused me to question the
current settings and to wonder if the altered suspension system might
require more negative camber as indicated above. As I can't get more
positive camber without different CC Plates and because I was initially
thinking of reducing the camber to -.25 to address the tire wear issue but I
now find that I'm more confused than ever.
Richard
>
> "Richard" <r-manders [at] shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:Kg_tg.185651$iF6.61583 [at] pd7tw2no...
> > Does anyone have a recommended camber spec after installing the FRPP
> > M5400-A
> > suspension system. None were included with the kit. While the FRPP C&C
> > plate
> > kit offers some suggestions for various applications, I am still using
> > the
> > stock camber plate so I'm uncertain as to whether to use these alignment
> > specs.
> >
> > --
> > Richard
> >
> > '94 GT 'vert
> > Under Drive Pulleys
> > Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
> > High Stall Torque Converter
> > 3:73 Gears
> > Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
> > FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
> > FRPP M5400-A Suspension
> > Laser Red
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Alignment specs '94 GT [message #776765 ] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 18:33 |
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All the late model Fords that I align have had what I think is too much
negative camber from the factory... nearly 2 degrees on one of the very few
Merc Marauders I've aligned. I'd probably regard your present settings as
something I wouldn't want to exceed on a street driven car..... unless the
customer regarded cornering ability as more important than possible tire
wear......
However, with what you have for current camber settings (this is read off a
rack rather than some arbtrary markings in the plates?), I wouldn't expect
abnormal wear. And that brings us to toe which can kill a tire quicker than
any other alignment angle. A small amount (about 0.10 degree - I think that
extrapolates to about 1/16th inch) of toe in will usually help straight line
stability. Generally, a small amount of toe out (it will look like -0.10
degree or so on the rack) will help the car turn into the corner better.
0.20 degree either way is pushing it and anything over 0.30 degree is likely
going to give excessive wear (the more the toe, the worse the wear). Too
much toe out will wear the inside edge first with featheredging towards the
outside (in some cases, you may need to rub your hand across the tread to
find featheredging..... rub one way, then the other), while too much toe in
will give the same symptoms mirrored on the tire.
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| Re: Alignment specs '94 GT [message #776785 ] |
Sun, 16 July 2006 04:42 |
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"Jim Warman" <mechanic [at] telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:eN8ug.136173$S61.11763 [at] edtnps90...
> All the late model Fords that I align have had what I think is too much
> negative camber from the factory... nearly 2 degrees on one of the very
few
> Merc Marauders I've aligned. I'd probably regard your present settings as
> something I wouldn't want to exceed on a street driven car..... unless the
> customer regarded cornering ability as more important than possible tire
> wear......
Cornering well is important.
> However, with what you have for current camber settings (this is read off
a
> rack rather than some arbtrary markings in the plates?), I wouldn't expect
> abnormal wear.
The settings are from the rack.
And that brings us to toe which can kill a tire quicker than
> any other alignment angle. A small amount (about 0.10 degree - I think
that
> extrapolates to about 1/16th inch) of toe in will usually help straight
line
> stability.
Toe is +1/16 left and right for Total Toe +1/8".
Generally, a small amount of toe out (it will look like -0.10
> degree or so on the rack) will help the car turn into the corner better.
> 0.20 degree either way is pushing it and anything over 0.30 degree is
likely
> going to give excessive wear (the more the toe, the worse the wear). Too
> much toe out will wear the inside edge first with featheredging towards
the
> outside (in some cases, you may need to rub your hand across the tread to
> find featheredging..... rub one way, then the other), while too much toe
in
> will give the same symptoms mirrored on the tire.
That's what caught my attention. Rubbing my hand across the tread (opposite
to tire rotation) you can feel a sharp edge on the outside edge of the tire.
Inside edge and rear tires do not have the same feel.
Maybe the answer is to have the alignment confirmed and to set the Toe to 0.
Richard
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| Re: Alignment specs '94 GT [message #783691 ] |
Tue, 18 July 2006 09:06 |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gawd, I wish I knew what you guys were talking about! lol!
But hey, Jim, Rich, I just put on a new set of 245/50/16s on my 5.0
Reeeeal sticky. I love them.=20
Now, I need to get them aligned soon.=20
Cornering is very important. With stock running gear, can you recommend =
an aggressive corning alignment I can take to the boys at Ford?
Thanks for any help!
Brad
"Richard" <r-manders [at] shaw.ca> wrote in message =
news:wIhug.194196$IK3.30168 [at] pd7tw1no...
"Jim Warman" <mechanic [at] telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:eN8ug.136173$S61.11763 [at] edtnps90...
> All the late model Fords that I align have had what I think is too =
much
> negative camber from the factory... nearly 2 degrees on one of the =
very
few
> Merc Marauders I've aligned. I'd probably regard your present =
settings as
> something I wouldn't want to exceed on a street driven car..... =
unless the
> customer regarded cornering ability as more important than possible =
tire
> wear......
Cornering well is important.
> However, with what you have for current camber settings (this is =
read off
a
> rack rather than some arbtrary markings in the plates?), I wouldn't =
expect
> abnormal wear.
The settings are from the rack.
And that brings us to toe which can kill a tire quicker than
> any other alignment angle. A small amount (about 0.10 degree - I =
think
that
> extrapolates to about 1/16th inch) of toe in will usually help =
straight
line
> stability.
Toe is +1/16 left and right for Total Toe +1/8".
Generally, a small amount of toe out (it will look like -0.10
> degree or so on the rack) will help the car turn into the corner =
better.
> 0.20 degree either way is pushing it and anything over 0.30 degree =
is
likely
> going to give excessive wear (the more the toe, the worse the wear). =
Too
> much toe out will wear the inside edge first with featheredging =
towards
the
> outside (in some cases, you may need to rub your hand across the =
tread to
> find featheredging..... rub one way, then the other), while too much =
toe
in
> will give the same symptoms mirrored on the tire.
That's what caught my attention. Rubbing my hand across the tread =
(opposite
to tire rotation) you can feel a sharp edge on the outside edge of the =
tire.
Inside edge and rear tires do not have the same feel.
Maybe the answer is to have the alignment confirmed and to set the Toe =
to 0.
Richard
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C6AA06.7076D700
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Gawd, I wish I knew what you guys were talking about! =
lol!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But hey, Jim, Rich, I just put on a new set of 245/50/16s on my =
5.0</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Reeeeal sticky. I love them. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now, I need to get them aligned soon. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cornering is very important. With stock running gear, can you =
recommend an=20
aggressive corning alignment I can take to the boys at Ford?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for any help!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Brad</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Richard" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:r-manders [at] shaw.ca">r-manders [at] shaw.ca</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:wIhug.194196$IK3.30168 [at] pd7tw1no">news:wIhug.194196$IK3.30168=
[at] pd7tw1no</A>...</DIV><BR>"Jim=20
Warman" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:mechanic [at] telusplanet.net">mechanic [at] telusplanet.net</A>>=
wrote=20
in message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:eN8ug.136173$S61.11763 [at] edtnps90">news:eN8ug.136173$S61.11763=
[at] edtnps90</A>...<BR>>=20
All the late model Fords that I align have had what I think is too=20
much<BR>> negative camber from the factory... nearly 2 degrees on =
one of=20
the very<BR>few<BR>> Merc Marauders I've aligned. I'd probably =
regard your=20
present settings as<BR>> something I wouldn't want to exceed on a =
street=20
driven car..... unless the<BR>> customer regarded cornering ability =
as more=20
important than possible tire<BR>> wear......<BR><BR>Cornering well =
is=20
important.<BR><BR>> However, with what you have for current camber =
settings=20
(this is read off<BR>a<BR>> rack rather than some arbtrary markings =
in the=20
plates?), I wouldn't expect<BR>> abnormal wear.<BR><BR>The settings =
are=20
from the rack.<BR><BR>And that brings us to toe which can kill a tire =
quicker=20
than<BR>> any other alignment angle. A small amount (about 0.10 =
degree - I=20
think<BR>that<BR>> extrapolates to about 1/16th inch) of toe in =
will=20
usually help straight<BR>line<BR>> stability.<BR><BR>Toe is +1/16 =
left and=20
right for Total Toe +1/8".<BR><BR>Generally, a small amount of toe out =
(it=20
will look like -0.10<BR>> degree or so on the rack) will help the =
car turn=20
into the corner better.<BR>> 0.20 degree either way is pushing it =
and=20
anything over 0.30 degree is<BR>likely<BR>> going to give excessive =
wear=20
(the more the toe, the worse the wear). Too<BR>> much toe out will =
wear the=20
inside edge first with featheredging towards<BR>the<BR>> outside =
(in some=20
cases, you may need to rub your hand across the tread to<BR>> find=20
featheredging..... rub one way, then the other), while too much=20
toe<BR>in<BR>> will give the same symptoms mirrored on the=20
tire.<BR><BR>That's what caught my attention. Rubbing my hand across =
the tread=20
(opposite<BR>to tire rotation) you can feel a sharp edge on the =
outside edge=20
of the tire.<BR>Inside edge and rear tires do not have the same=20
feel.<BR><BR>Maybe the answer is to have the alignment confirmed and =
to set=20
the Toe to 0.<BR><BR>Richard<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML >
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| Re: Alignment specs '94 GT [message #783722 ] |
Wed, 19 July 2006 05:53 |
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OK... if you move your hand across the tread from outside to inside you can
feel it "catch"????? Moving your hand from inside to outside feels
smooth????
If these conditions are present, I would think that toe is out of whack
(toed out) by a significant amount.
A word on our tools..... electronic alignment racks need periodic
calibration. I have instructed our vendor to stop by on any trips through
town and our rack gets calibrated about once a year. If there is ever any
doubt about toe settings, a decent shop should have a trammel bar... This is
a mechanical means to verify toe settings. If something doesn't feel right
after an alignment, I will use the trammel bar to take a possible unknown
out of the equation....
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