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Motorcycles » rec.motorcycles.tech » Honda 240R
| Honda 240R [message #769231] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 22:02 |
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Hi all,
I'm having a problem with my Honda 250R dirtbike. I don't know the ins
and outs of mechanics, but I can do more than most. Anyway, I've been having
a baffling problem with this thing. It's always been a little hard to start
cold. It will start, and it will idle beautifully, but it dies whenever any
amount of gas is given. There is nothing blocking the exhaust, or air intake
at any place. The air filter is good. Also worth nothing, a shot of starting
fluid in the air intake will allow it to rev up and run for a second or two.
I've tried carb cleaner, but to no avail. Please someone tell me I don't
have to re do the jets in this thing. Tell me there's a simple answer!
Thanks for any and all help. I hope no one minds my problem posting.
Swiver
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #769235 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 00:15 |
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Cleaning the carb is a simple fix.
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:02:59 GMT, "Swiver" <wires [at] everywhere.net> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
> I'm having a problem with my Honda 250R dirtbike. I don't know the ins
>and outs of mechanics, but I can do more than most. Anyway, I've been having
>a baffling problem with this thing. It's always been a little hard to start
>cold. It will start, and it will idle beautifully, but it dies whenever any
>amount of gas is given. There is nothing blocking the exhaust, or air intake
>at any place. The air filter is good. Also worth nothing, a shot of starting
>fluid in the air intake will allow it to rev up and run for a second or two.
>I've tried carb cleaner, but to no avail. Please someone tell me I don't
>have to re do the jets in this thing. Tell me there's a simple answer!
>Thanks for any and all help. I hope no one minds my problem posting.
>
>
>Swiver
>
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #769241 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 04:19 |
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Swiver wrote:
> I'm having a problem with my Honda 250R dirtbike. I don't know the ins
> and outs of mechanics, but I can do more than most. Anyway, I've been having
> a baffling problem with this thing. It's always been a little hard to start
> cold. It will start, and it will idle beautifully, but it dies whenever any
> amount of gas is given. There is nothing blocking the exhaust, or air intake
> at any place. The air filter is good. Also worth nothing, a shot of starting
> fluid in the air intake will allow it to rev up and run for a second or two.
> I've tried carb cleaner, but to no avail. Please someone tell me I don't
> have to re do the jets in this thing. Tell me there's a simple answer!
> Thanks for any and all help. I hope no one minds my problem posting.
The idle jet and maybe the main jet is probably plugged up with gum and
varnish, or even *dye* from evaporated pre-mix. Some pre-mix oils
contain a colored dye so you can tell you've added the oil to your gas,
but when the gas evaporates, it plugs the jets.
I don't recommend running a carburetor cleaner like Berryman's B-12
Chemtool Choke and Carburetor Cleaner through the gas tank of a
2-stroke because you might damage the piston rings.
But, it's easy to take the carburetor off and remove the float bowl and
spray through the jets and passages with the aerosol version of B-12.
Go to www.partsfish.com or to www.bikebandit.com to look at diagrams of
the carburetor on that model.
The idle jet and the needle jet may have cross-drilled air emulsion
holes that need cleaning out. If you try to remove the idle jet, be
sure you have a small slot screwdriver that fits the jet perfectly,
otherwise, don't even try to remove it.
The needle jet is the brass tube that the needle attached to the
throttle slide goes up and down in. Air emulsion holes in a needle jet
help mix air with the gasoline and make the throttle more responsive.
The needle jet probably pushes up into the carburetor body from below.
Watch for a rubber o-ring on the needle jet.
The idle mixture screw on that model is probably an AIR screw, turning
it clockwise will richen the mixture. If you want to remove that screw
and squirt aerosol cleaner through the passages, turn the screw all the
way clockwise, counting the number of turns until it stops turning.
Write that number down, then remove the screw. Don't lose the little
spring on the screw, it keeps the screw from loosening up and falling
out.
When you go to reinstall the idle mixture screw, turni it all the way
clockwise until it just stops turning, then back it out the same number
of turns you wrote down.
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #769242 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 05:41 |
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Thanks very much for the detailed and informative answer. Your time and
thaught is well appreciated :)
I am going to take the carburetor off this weekend and try what you've
suggested.
Again, thanks :)
Swiver
"FB" <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152670745.138643.277730 [at] s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Swiver wrote:
>
>> I'm having a problem with my Honda 250R dirtbike. I don't know the
>> ins
>> and outs of mechanics, but I can do more than most. Anyway, I've been
>> having
>> a baffling problem with this thing. It's always been a little hard to
>> start
>> cold. It will start, and it will idle beautifully, but it dies whenever
>> any
>> amount of gas is given. There is nothing blocking the exhaust, or air
>> intake
>> at any place. The air filter is good. Also worth nothing, a shot of
>> starting
>> fluid in the air intake will allow it to rev up and run for a second or
>> two.
>> I've tried carb cleaner, but to no avail. Please someone tell me I don't
>> have to re do the jets in this thing. Tell me there's a simple answer!
>> Thanks for any and all help. I hope no one minds my problem posting.
>
> The idle jet and maybe the main jet is probably plugged up with gum and
> varnish, or even *dye* from evaporated pre-mix. Some pre-mix oils
> contain a colored dye so you can tell you've added the oil to your gas,
> but when the gas evaporates, it plugs the jets.
>
> I don't recommend running a carburetor cleaner like Berryman's B-12
> Chemtool Choke and Carburetor Cleaner through the gas tank of a
> 2-stroke because you might damage the piston rings.
>
> But, it's easy to take the carburetor off and remove the float bowl and
> spray through the jets and passages with the aerosol version of B-12.
>
> Go to www.partsfish.com or to www.bikebandit.com to look at diagrams of
> the carburetor on that model.
>
> The idle jet and the needle jet may have cross-drilled air emulsion
> holes that need cleaning out. If you try to remove the idle jet, be
> sure you have a small slot screwdriver that fits the jet perfectly,
> otherwise, don't even try to remove it.
>
> The needle jet is the brass tube that the needle attached to the
> throttle slide goes up and down in. Air emulsion holes in a needle jet
> help mix air with the gasoline and make the throttle more responsive.
>
> The needle jet probably pushes up into the carburetor body from below.
> Watch for a rubber o-ring on the needle jet.
>
> The idle mixture screw on that model is probably an AIR screw, turning
> it clockwise will richen the mixture. If you want to remove that screw
> and squirt aerosol cleaner through the passages, turn the screw all the
> way clockwise, counting the number of turns until it stops turning.
> Write that number down, then remove the screw. Don't lose the little
> spring on the screw, it keeps the screw from loosening up and falling
> out.
>
> When you go to reinstall the idle mixture screw, turni it all the way
> clockwise until it just stops turning, then back it out the same number
> of turns you wrote down.
>
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #769243 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 06:22 |
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Swiver wrote:
> Thanks very much for the detailed and informative answer. Your time and
> thaught is well appreciated :)
> I am going to take the carburetor off this weekend and try what you've
> suggested.
I should have also mentioned that the float valve may be stuck.
The float valve is usually 3-sided, or 4-sided so that the edges just
touch the cylindrical sides of the brass valve seat. It doesn't take
much gum and varnish on the edges of the float valve to cause it to
stick shut and prevent fresh gasoline from getting into the float
bowls.
It's possible to squirt B-12 down the fuel hose to get it to the float
valve to free it up, but I wouldn't recommend starting a 2-stroke with
a float bowl full of B-12, I would drain it all out before refilling
the float bowl with pre-mix.
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #769246 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 10:51 |
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"FB" <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1152670745.138643.277730 [at] s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Swiver wrote:
>
>> I'm having a problem with my Honda 250R dirtbike.
<snip>
> The idle mixture screw on that model is probably an AIR screw, turning
> it clockwise will richen the mixture.
<snip>
If it was a two stroke MX bike, that would seem probable
to me. Not being an expert at all but my impression is that
Honda bikes are more often four stroke (maybe a XR250R
in this case). If my guess is right it would suggest a fuel
idle adjuster i.e. turn clockwise to lean the mix.
Question to the O.P. :
Does it make any difference if you use the choke?
--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777672 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 20:15 |
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"OH-" <ole.holmblad.hat [at] comhem.se.hat> wrote in message
news:BK2tg.8713$E02.2790 [at] newsb.telia.net...
>
> "FB" <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1152670745.138643.277730 [at] s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Swiver wrote:
>>
>>> I'm having a problem with my Honda 250R dirtbike.
>
> <snip>
>
>> The idle mixture screw on that model is probably an AIR screw, turning
>> it clockwise will richen the mixture.
>
> <snip>
>
> If it was a two stroke MX bike, that would seem probable
> to me. Not being an expert at all but my impression is that
> Honda bikes are more often four stroke (maybe a XR250R
> in this case). If my guess is right it would suggest a fuel
> idle adjuster i.e. turn clockwise to lean the mix.
>
> Question to the O.P. :
> Does it make any difference if you use the choke?
>
It is a four stroke, sorry I forgot to mention that : /
Would that make it easier to fix? Or do I still have to take the carb off?
Choke makes no difference.
Swiver
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777674 ] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 20:41 |
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Swiver wrote:
> It is a four stroke, sorry I forgot to mention that : /
What year and exact model number, XR, XL or what?
> Would that make it easier to fix? Or do I still have to take the carb off?
You can squirt the B-12 down the fuel hose into the carburetor of a
4-stroke and leave it set for about half an hour, then start the engine
and the B-12 just might clear all the varnish out without disassembly.
> Choke makes no difference.
If the choke doesn't help you get the engine started, the float valve
is probably stuck and no gasoline is in the float bowl.
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777676 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 00:06 |
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I'm sorry I'm not sure what exact year or model it is. The red seat has 250R
written on it. It's my uncle's bike and he's not around very often. I can
tell you that he has an Army Surplus bike that is the same model, if that
helps. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an XR, but that's only a guess. I
think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference with the
inability to rev above idle. I'm guessing I can get some B-12 at an
automotive store? I will pick some up before I go to my camp where the bike
is this weekend and see how that works. Taking the carb off isn't really all
that much of a problem, just a pain in the rear with the heat like it is
down here in Louisiana. It's much cooler to ride than work on them :)
Swiver
"FB" <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152729685.122144.294970 [at] m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Swiver wrote:
>
>> It is a four stroke, sorry I forgot to mention that : /
>
> What year and exact model number, XR, XL or what?
>
>> Would that make it easier to fix? Or do I still have to take the carb
>> off?
>
> You can squirt the B-12 down the fuel hose into the carburetor of a
> 4-stroke and leave it set for about half an hour, then start the engine
> and the B-12 just might clear all the varnish out without disassembly.
>
>> Choke makes no difference.
>
> If the choke doesn't help you get the engine started, the float valve
> is probably stuck and no gasoline is in the float bowl.
>
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777677 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 00:50 |
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"Swiver" <wires [at] everywhere.net> wrote in
news:Tnetg.29154$Uc3.612 [at] tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference
> with the inability to rev above idle.
Just another thought. There is a screen inside the tank, on the
petcock. There is a remote possibility that this is blocked by
debris. Easy to check - pull fuel hose of carburettor and open
the petcock, petrol should flow freely.
Oh, and you could check that your float valve is free while
you're at it. Reconnect the hose and open the float bowl
drain. Once again fuel should flow once you open the tap.
--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777678 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 05:00 |
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On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:06:43 GMT, "Swiver" <wires [at] everywhere.net>
wrote:
>I'm sorry I'm not sure what exact year or model it is. The red seat has 250R
>written on it. It's my uncle's bike and he's not around very often. I can
>tell you that he has an Army Surplus bike that is the same model, if that
>helps. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an XR, but that's only a guess. I
>think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference with the
>inability to rev above idle. I'm guessing I can get some B-12 at an
>automotive store? I will pick some up before I go to my camp where the bike
>is this weekend and see how that works. Taking the carb off isn't really all
>that much of a problem, just a pain in the rear with the heat like it is
>down here in Louisiana. It's much cooler to ride than work on them :)
>
>Swiver
Sounds like a XR250R.
Where are you located in LA?
I'm about 20 miles north of the border, up in Arkansas. We are
talking about riding down at Dry Prong (Breezy Hills) this Sunday.
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777679 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 05:16 |
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Swiver wrote:
> I'm sorry I'm not sure what exact year or model it is. The red seat has 250R
> written on it. It's my uncle's bike and he's not around very often. I can
> tell you that he has an Army Surplus bike that is the same model, if that
> helps. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an XR, but that's only a guess.
There are probably decals on the steering head and under the seat or
under one of the side covers that tell what year the machine was built
and what the model is and the idle RPM and timing and valve lash. This
is for your information, it will make it easier for you to find part
numbers and diagrams on sites like www.partsfish.com or
www.bikebandit.com.
> I think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference with the
> inability to rev above idle.
The typical "choke" on a modern Japanese motorcycle usually isn't a
choke at all, it's a valve in a bypass passage. Working the choke lever
or knob opens the valve, air flow around thebutterfly and gasoline is
sucked straight out of the float bowl.
If the engine starts on the "choke:", but dies when you open the
throttle, that indicates the idle jet and idle passages are plugged up.
> I'm guessing I can get some B-12 at an automotive store? I will pick some
> up before I go to my camp where the bike is this weekend and see how that works.
Wal*Mart would have B-12, and just about any decent auto parts store
would have it. If you don't find it easily, just read the labels on STP
or GumOut carburetor cleaner. If they contain xylene, acetone, toluene,
methyl alchohol, buy one of those products.
Don't buy anything containing cresylic acid, that stuff is for cleaning
the undercarriage of some old 1965 Oldmobile that is covered with two
inches of grease and rust.
> Taking the carb off isn't really all
> that much of a problem, just a pain in the rear with the heat like it is
> down here in Louisiana. It's much cooler to ride than work on them :)
Around here, the average high temperature gets up to 100 degrees every
day from Memorial Day to the end of September, so I schedule my work
for sunrise to noon.
Somebody at work said that it might get up around 110 degrees this
weekend. I sure hope they were wrong.
But, you might not have to go through all the trouble of removing the
carburetor if you can get the B-12 and squirt it down the fuel hose
into the float bowl and let it sit for half an hour, then start the
engine and ride the motprcycle with about 3 ounces of
B-12 in the gas tank.
Works for me. I will have to do it to a motorcycle in my garage pretty
soon.
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777693 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 18:04 |
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"Wudsracer" <dirtbike52RemovE [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:u7dbb2l92hpurjqobl16g96e7okg0j71vj [at] 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:06:43 GMT, "Swiver" <wires [at] everywhere.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm sorry I'm not sure what exact year or model it is. The red seat has
>>250R
>>written on it. It's my uncle's bike and he's not around very often. I can
>>tell you that he has an Army Surplus bike that is the same model, if that
>>helps. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an XR, but that's only a guess. I
>>think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference with
>>the
>>inability to rev above idle. I'm guessing I can get some B-12 at an
>>automotive store? I will pick some up before I go to my camp where the
>>bike
>>is this weekend and see how that works. Taking the carb off isn't really
>>all
>>that much of a problem, just a pain in the rear with the heat like it is
>>down here in Louisiana. It's much cooler to ride than work on them :)
>>
>>Swiver
>
> Sounds like a XR250R.
>
> Where are you located in LA?
> I'm about 20 miles north of the border, up in Arkansas. We are
> talking about riding down at Dry Prong (Breezy Hills) this Sunday.
>
>
I'm in Shreveport, so not too far from you :) The bike is in Jonesville, at
our farm, though. I didn't know there were places to ride in Dry Prong. Are
they trails or what?
Swiver
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777694 ] |
Thu, 13 July 2006 18:08 |
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"FB" <flying_booger [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152760602.886762.216750 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> Swiver wrote:
>> I'm sorry I'm not sure what exact year or model it is. The red seat has
>> 250R
>> written on it. It's my uncle's bike and he's not around very often. I can
>> tell you that he has an Army Surplus bike that is the same model, if that
>> helps. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an XR, but that's only a guess.
>
> There are probably decals on the steering head and under the seat or
> under one of the side covers that tell what year the machine was built
> and what the model is and the idle RPM and timing and valve lash. This
> is for your information, it will make it easier for you to find part
> numbers and diagrams on sites like www.partsfish.com or
> www.bikebandit.com.
>
>> I think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference
>> with the
>> inability to rev above idle.
>
> The typical "choke" on a modern Japanese motorcycle usually isn't a
> choke at all, it's a valve in a bypass passage. Working the choke lever
> or knob opens the valve, air flow around thebutterfly and gasoline is
> sucked straight out of the float bowl.
>
> If the engine starts on the "choke:", but dies when you open the
> throttle, that indicates the idle jet and idle passages are plugged up.
>
>> I'm guessing I can get some B-12 at an automotive store? I will pick some
>> up before I go to my camp where the bike is this weekend and see how that
>> works.
>
> Wal*Mart would have B-12, and just about any decent auto parts store
> would have it. If you don't find it easily, just read the labels on STP
> or GumOut carburetor cleaner. If they contain xylene, acetone, toluene,
> methyl alchohol, buy one of those products.
>
> Don't buy anything containing cresylic acid, that stuff is for cleaning
> the undercarriage of some old 1965 Oldmobile that is covered with two
> inches of grease and rust.
>
>> Taking the carb off isn't really all
>> that much of a problem, just a pain in the rear with the heat like it is
>> down here in Louisiana. It's much cooler to ride than work on them :)
>
> Around here, the average high temperature gets up to 100 degrees every
> day from Memorial Day to the end of September, so I schedule my work
> for sunrise to noon.
>
> Somebody at work said that it might get up around 110 degrees this
> weekend. I sure hope they were wrong.
>
> But, you might not have to go through all the trouble of removing the
> carburetor if you can get the B-12 and squirt it down the fuel hose
> into the float bowl and let it sit for half an hour, then start the
> engine and ride the motprcycle with about 3 ounces of
> B-12 in the gas tank.
>
> Works for me. I will have to do it to a motorcycle in my garage pretty
> soon.
>
I'll look for the year and other info on the bike when I get down there this
weekend. I'll try the B-12 before I take the carb apart. Squirt some in the
fuel hose, and about 3 ounces in the tank. Sounds easy enough :) I wouldn't
be surprised if the temp gets up there in the 100's. These past few years
have been hellacious.
Thanks again for all the good info. I can't wait to get down there and get
my hands dirty!
Swiver
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| Re: Honda 240R [message #777709 ] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 15:14 |
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>On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:04:31 GMT, "Swiver" <wires [at] everywhere.net> wrote:
>
>"Wudsracer" <dirtbike52RemovE [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:u7dbb2l92hpurjqobl16g96e7okg0j71vj [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:06:43 GMT, "Swiver" <wires [at] everywhere.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm sorry I'm not sure what exact year or model it is. The red seat has
>>>250R
>>>written on it. It's my uncle's bike and he's not around very often. I can
>>>tell you that he has an Army Surplus bike that is the same model, if that
>>>helps. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an XR, but that's only a guess. I
>>>think the choke does help start the engine, but makes no difference with
>>>the
>>>inability to rev above idle. I'm guessing I can get some B-12 at an
>>>automotive store? I will pick some up before I go to my camp where the
>>>bike
>>>is this weekend and see how that works. Taking the carb off isn't really
>>>all
>>>that much of a problem, just a pain in the rear with the heat like it is
>>>down here in Louisiana. It's much cooler to ride than work on them :)
>>>
>>>Swiver
>>
>> Sounds like a XR250R.
>>
>> Where are you located in LA?
>> I'm about 20 miles north of the border, up in Arkansas. We are
>> talking about riding down at Dry Prong (Breezy Hills) this Sunday.
>>
>>
>
>I'm in Shreveport, so not too far from you :) The bike is in Jonesville, at
>our farm, though. I didn't know there were places to ride in Dry Prong. Are
>they trails or what?
>
>Swiver
>
Extremely tight singletrack trails.
OP lives in Haughton.
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