| Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #517289] |
Sun, 20 November 2005 08:36 |
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My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd unless I really
shift early after getting started in 1st. All other gears shift just
fine. Is this a major problem in the making or is this correctable
with a minor adjustment?
--
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #553600 ] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 09:35 |
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"PeteJC" wrote:
> My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd unless I
> really shift early after getting started in 1st. All other
> gears shift just fine. Is this a major problem in the making
> or is this correctable with a minor adjustment?
As long as I shift from 1st to 2nd at fairly low speed and low RPM it
does fine.
--
Posted using the http://www.motorcycleforumz.com interface, at author's request
Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #553601 ] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 15:36 |
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PeteJC wrote:
> "PeteJC" wrote:
> > My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd unless I
> > really shift early after getting started in 1st. All other
> > gears shift just fine. Is this a major problem in the making
> > or is this correctable with a minor adjustment?
>
> As long as I shift from 1st to 2nd at fairly low speed and low RPM it
> does fine.
Do you mean that the shifter lever is hard to move from first through
neutral into second gear, or that
the transmission makes a loud clunky sound when you try to shift at
higher RPM?
This is more typical of larger displacement motorbikes, usually 750cc
and up.
There is the possibility your clutch isn't disengaging enough, so check
the cable slack at the lever for excess slack and the angularity of any
throwout lever down on the clutch cover for less than the optimum arc
of travel. There are often alignment punch marks on the throwout lever
and the shaft they are clamped to.
Also, check your shifter pedal to make sure that it is clamped to the
shifter shafter in the best position for your particular shoe size so
you get enough movement of the pedal.
The above is important because of the way a motorbike transmission
shifts gears. There is a ratcheting device turning a cylindrical
shifter drum inside the engine. The ratcheting device will grab one of
6 or 7 equally spaced steel pins in the shifter drum.
But your transmission probably has neutral between first and second
gears. So the shifter drum has to be rotated further to shift from
first to second. Your foot has to move further shifting from frist to
second than it has to move shifting from second to third, etc.
So, if it's not a clutch adjustment problem, it's likely to be a rider
problem. Maybe you're not moving the lever far enough.
Clutches are cantankerous devices anyway. Clutches have been described
as a mechanical device that is never fully engaged or fully disengaged.
IOW, a clutch seems to always slip when you want to put a lot of power
through it, or it seems to drag when you wish it was fully released.
You might try using a synthetic oil instead of mineral oil to make your
clutch plates disengage better.
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| Re: Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572790 ] |
Fri, 30 December 2005 06:35 |
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"" wrote:
> PeteJC wrote:
> > "PeteJC" wrote:
> > > My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd
> unless I
> > > really shift early after getting started in 1st. All
> other
> > > gears shift just fine. Is this a major problem in the
> making
> > > or is this correctable with a minor adjustment?
> >
> > As long as I shift from 1st to 2nd at fairly low speed and
> low RPM it
> > does fine.
>
> Do you mean that the shifter lever is hard to move from first
> through
> neutral into second gear, or that
> the transmission makes a loud clunky sound when you try to
> shift at
> higher RPM?
>
> This is more typical of larger displacement motorbikes,
> usually 750cc
> and up.
>
> There is the possibility your clutch isn't disengaging enough,
> so check
> the cable slack at the lever for excess slack and the
> angularity of any
> throwout lever down on the clutch cover for less than the
> optimum arc
> of travel. There are often alignment punch marks on the
> throwout lever
> and the shaft they are clamped to.
>
> Also, check your shifter pedal to make sure that it is clamped
> to the
> shifter shafter in the best position for your particular shoe
> size so
> you get enough movement of the pedal.
>
> The above is important because of the way a motorbike
> transmission
> shifts gears. There is a ratcheting device turning a
> cylindrical
> shifter drum inside the engine. The ratcheting device will
> grab one of
> 6 or 7 equally spaced steel pins in the shifter drum.
>
> But your transmission probably has neutral between first and
> second
> gears. So the shifter drum has to be rotated further to shift
> from
> first to second. Your foot has to move further shifting from
> frist to
> second than it has to move shifting from second to third, etc.
>
> So, if it's not a clutch adjustment problem, it's likely to be
> a rider
> problem. Maybe you're not moving the lever far enough.
>
> Clutches are cantankerous devices anyway. Clutches have been
> described
> as a mechanical device that is never fully engaged or fully
> disengaged.
>
> IOW, a clutch seems to always slip when you want to put a lot
> of power
> through it, or it seems to drag when you wish it was fully
> released.
>
> You might try using a synthetic oil instead of mineral oil to
> make your
> clutch plates disengage better.
Thanks for your input. My tranny is 1 down Neutral and 4 up. When I
1st got my 74 XL175 running after 21 years I rode it very gently. I
wanted to get my cycle bearings back before I rode more agressively.
All the shifting went fine, 1st through 5th. Once I got my confidence
up I started winding higher before shifting each gear. That’s when
the shift from 1st to 2nd started staying in neutral. I don’t think
it’s op error unless it’s because I wasn’t shifting soon enough. If
that’s the case it’s fixed. When I shift later (higher RPM/Speed) it
doesn’t really make a crunch or grind noise. It’s more like a
bumping/ticking feel on my foot like it just won’t quite mesh and is
just riding on top of a gear.
I think I’ll just keep shifting into 2nd early. My neutral indicator
light also does not work. I don’t think that’s a symptom of the
problem.
Thanks again!
--
Posted using the http://www.motorcycleforumz.com interface, at author's request
Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
Topic URL: http://www.motorcycleforumz.com/Difficult-shift-1st-2nd-ftop ict141204.html
Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse: http://www.motorcycleforumz.com/eform.php?p=7537760
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572794 ] |
Fri, 30 December 2005 21:09 |
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PeteJC wrote:
> All the shifting went fine, 1st through 5th. Once I got my confidence
> up I started winding higher before shifting each gear. That's when
> the shift from 1st to 2nd started staying in neutral. I don't think
> it's op error unless it's because I wasn't shifting soon enough. If
> that's the case it's fixed. When I shift later (higher RPM/Speed) it
> doesn't really make a crunch or grind noise. It's more like a
> bumping/ticking feel on my foot like it just won't quite mesh and is
> just riding on top of a gear.
The teeth on all the gears in a motorcycle transmission are always in
mesh. Shifting is accomplished by sliding the
free-wheeling gears *sideways* on their shafts. Each free-wheeling gear
has three or four protrusions on the side of the gear. They are called
"dogs". The male dogs slide into female slots on the side of the pinion
gears which are attached to the transmission shafts. If anything is
grinding, it's the dogs grinding against the gears that they are
supposed to slot into. Some older British motorcycles would grind the
dogs if you tried to shift gears at any engine speed except idle.
Two possible problems come to mind. The first is that one of the
shifter forks that follow the cylinder shifter drum might be bent
slightly from somebody kicking at the shift lever too hard. The other
possibility is that steel circlips that locate some of gears have
gotten old and have loosened up and that the gears are no longer
located accurately on their shafts.
Those gears then move away from the gear that's being pushed toward
them.
I actuallt ran into that problem once on a Yamaha that I was
rebuilding. The circlips on the transmission shafts were loosening up,
but I didn't see any reason to replace them. The transmission wouldn't
shift into 5th gear, so I had to take the engine apart again.
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| Re: Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572807 ] |
Sat, 31 December 2005 02:25 |
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"PeteJC" <UseLinkToEmail [at] www.motorcycleforumz.com> wrote in message
news:7537760_5a489d174bef743ae372bedc14ad1323 [at] motorcycleforumz.com...
> "" wrote:
> > PeteJC wrote:
> > > "PeteJC" wrote:
> > > > My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd
> > unless I
> > > > really shift early after getting started in 1st. All
> > other
> > > > gears shift just fine. Is this a major problem in the
> > making
> > > > or is this correctable with a minor adjustment?
> > >
> > > As long as I shift from 1st to 2nd at fairly low speed and
> > low RPM it
> > > does fine.
> >
> > Do you mean that the shifter lever is hard to move from first
> > through
> > neutral into second gear, or that
> > the transmission makes a loud clunky sound when you try to
> > shift at
> > higher RPM?
> >
> > This is more typical of larger displacement motorbikes,
> > usually 750cc
> > and up.
> >
> > There is the possibility your clutch isn't disengaging enough,
> > so check
> > the cable slack at the lever for excess slack and the
> > angularity of any
> > throwout lever down on the clutch cover for less than the
> > optimum arc
> > of travel. There are often alignment punch marks on the
> > throwout lever
> > and the shaft they are clamped to.
> >
> > Also, check your shifter pedal to make sure that it is clamped
> > to the
> > shifter shafter in the best position for your particular shoe
> > size so
> > you get enough movement of the pedal.
> >
> > The above is important because of the way a motorbike
> > transmission
> > shifts gears. There is a ratcheting device turning a
> > cylindrical
> > shifter drum inside the engine. The ratcheting device will
> > grab one of
> > 6 or 7 equally spaced steel pins in the shifter drum.
> >
> > But your transmission probably has neutral between first and
> > second
> > gears. So the shifter drum has to be rotated further to shift
> > from
> > first to second. Your foot has to move further shifting from
> > frist to
> > second than it has to move shifting from second to third, etc.
> >
> > So, if it's not a clutch adjustment problem, it's likely to be
> > a rider
> > problem. Maybe you're not moving the lever far enough.
> >
> > Clutches are cantankerous devices anyway. Clutches have been
> > described
> > as a mechanical device that is never fully engaged or fully
> > disengaged.
> >
> > IOW, a clutch seems to always slip when you want to put a lot
> > of power
> > through it, or it seems to drag when you wish it was fully
> > released.
> >
> > You might try using a synthetic oil instead of mineral oil to
> > make your
> > clutch plates disengage better.
>
> Thanks for your input. My tranny is 1 down Neutral and 4 up. When I
> 1st got my 74 XL175 running after 21 years I rode it very gently. I
> wanted to get my cycle bearings back before I rode more agressively.
> All the shifting went fine, 1st through 5th. Once I got my confidence
> up I started winding higher before shifting each gear. That's when
> the shift from 1st to 2nd started staying in neutral. I don't think
> it's op error unless it's because I wasn't shifting soon enough. If
> that's the case it's fixed. When I shift later (higher RPM/Speed) it
> doesn't really make a crunch or grind noise. It's more like a
> bumping/ticking feel on my foot like it just won't quite mesh and is
> just riding on top of a gear.
>
> I think I'll just keep shifting into 2nd early. My neutral indicator
> light also does not work. I don't think that's a symptom of the
> problem.
>
> Thanks again!
>
You might try "pre-loading" before shifting, A lot of BMW 5 speeds shift
poorly from 1st to 2nd and they work much smoother if you put upward
pressure on the shifter (but not enough to force it in neutral), then
squeeze the cluch and shift into 2nd. It's a bit cumbersome at first, but
it becomes 2nd nature. My 2000 r1100 shifted like crap but worked much
better when I pre-loaded.
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572813 ] |
Sat, 31 December 2005 19:55 |
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CK wrote:
> Shifting is accomplished by sliding the
> free-wheeling gears *sideways* on their shafts.
The free-wheeling gears are all in a fixed location. The splined gears are slid into the
free-wheeling gears to lock them to their respective shafts.
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572814 ] |
Sat, 31 December 2005 20:18 |
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> CK wrote:
>> Shifting is accomplished by sliding the
>> free-wheeling gears *sideways* on their shafts.
>
>
> The free-wheeling gears are all in a fixed location. The splined gears are
> slid into the free-wheeling gears to lock them to their respective shafts.
Have you ever done any power shifting on the bike? If you are like at
least some of us here, the answer would be a big yes, and I am leaning
towards a bent shifting fork. This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
Fwed
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572815 ] |
Sat, 31 December 2005 20:31 |
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fweddybear <fweddybear [at] cox.net> wrote:
> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
*What* clutch fluid?
--
Trophy 1200 750SS XS650 CB400F CB125S DT50MX
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #572817 ] |
Sat, 31 December 2005 20:39 |
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>> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
>> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
>
> *What* clutch fluid?
Most times, I don't see the complete post as some people do not include
previous posts in with their reply, as in my case. So , with that said, and
not seeing the post from the beginning, and also not knowing what bike he is
referring to, I suggested a couple of things to check, knowing that one or
more might not apply....
Fwed
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| Re: Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #582167 ] |
Tue, 03 January 2006 23:11 |
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i go with this post and when you change up keep positive pressure on the
gear lever till you release the clutch
Lushy
"LJ" <laremoDELETE [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:96mdndXuzJtmQCjeRVn-iQ [at] comcast.com...
>
> "PeteJC" <UseLinkToEmail [at] www.motorcycleforumz.com> wrote in message
> news:7537760_5a489d174bef743ae372bedc14ad1323 [at] motorcycleforumz.com...
>> "" wrote:
>> > PeteJC wrote:
>> > > "PeteJC" wrote:
>> > > > My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd
>> > unless I
>> > > > really shift early after getting started in 1st. All
>> > other
>> > > > gears shift just fine. Is this a major problem in the
>> > making
>> > > > or is this correctable with a minor adjustment?
>> > >
>> > > As long as I shift from 1st to 2nd at fairly low speed and
>> > low RPM it
>> > > does fine.
>> >
>> > Do you mean that the shifter lever is hard to move from first
>> > through
>> > neutral into second gear, or that
>> > the transmission makes a loud clunky sound when you try to
>> > shift at
>> > higher RPM?
>> >
>> > This is more typical of larger displacement motorbikes,
>> > usually 750cc
>> > and up.
>> >
>> > There is the possibility your clutch isn't disengaging enough,
>> > so check
>> > the cable slack at the lever for excess slack and the
>> > angularity of any
>> > throwout lever down on the clutch cover for less than the
>> > optimum arc
>> > of travel. There are often alignment punch marks on the
>> > throwout lever
>> > and the shaft they are clamped to.
>> >
>> > Also, check your shifter pedal to make sure that it is clamped
>> > to the
>> > shifter shafter in the best position for your particular shoe
>> > size so
>> > you get enough movement of the pedal.
>> >
>> > The above is important because of the way a motorbike
>> > transmission
>> > shifts gears. There is a ratcheting device turning a
>> > cylindrical
>> > shifter drum inside the engine. The ratcheting device will
>> > grab one of
>> > 6 or 7 equally spaced steel pins in the shifter drum.
>> >
>> > But your transmission probably has neutral between first and
>> > second
>> > gears. So the shifter drum has to be rotated further to shift
>> > from
>> > first to second. Your foot has to move further shifting from
>> > frist to
>> > second than it has to move shifting from second to third, etc.
>> >
>> > So, if it's not a clutch adjustment problem, it's likely to be
>> > a rider
>> > problem. Maybe you're not moving the lever far enough.
>> >
>> > Clutches are cantankerous devices anyway. Clutches have been
>> > described
>> > as a mechanical device that is never fully engaged or fully
>> > disengaged.
>> >
>> > IOW, a clutch seems to always slip when you want to put a lot
>> > of power
>> > through it, or it seems to drag when you wish it was fully
>> > released.
>> >
>> > You might try using a synthetic oil instead of mineral oil to
>> > make your
>> > clutch plates disengage better.
>>
>> Thanks for your input. My tranny is 1 down Neutral and 4 up. When I
>> 1st got my 74 XL175 running after 21 years I rode it very gently. I
>> wanted to get my cycle bearings back before I rode more agressively.
>> All the shifting went fine, 1st through 5th. Once I got my confidence
>> up I started winding higher before shifting each gear. That's when
>> the shift from 1st to 2nd started staying in neutral. I don't think
>> it's op error unless it's because I wasn't shifting soon enough. If
>> that's the case it's fixed. When I shift later (higher RPM/Speed) it
>> doesn't really make a crunch or grind noise. It's more like a
>> bumping/ticking feel on my foot like it just won't quite mesh and is
>> just riding on top of a gear.
>>
>> I think I'll just keep shifting into 2nd early. My neutral indicator
>> light also does not work. I don't think that's a symptom of the
>> problem.
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
> You might try "pre-loading" before shifting, A lot of BMW 5 speeds shift
> poorly from 1st to 2nd and they work much smoother if you put upward
> pressure on the shifter (but not enough to force it in neutral), then
> squeeze the cluch and shift into 2nd. It's a bit cumbersome at first, but
> it becomes 2nd nature. My 2000 r1100 shifted like crap but worked much
> better when I pre-loaded.
>
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #582168 ] |
Tue, 03 January 2006 23:12 |
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Go to the beginning of the thread helps
Lushy fro AU
"fweddybear" <fweddybear [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:x8Btf.38566$QW2.33486 [at] dukeread08...
>>> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
>>> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
>>
>> *What* clutch fluid?
>
> Most times, I don't see the complete post as some people do not include
> previous posts in with their reply, as in my case. So , with that said,
> and not seeing the post from the beginning, and also not knowing what bike
> he is referring to, I suggested a couple of things to check, knowing that
> one or more might not apply....
>
> Fwed
>
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| Re: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd [message #582169 ] |
Tue, 03 January 2006 23:44 |
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yes... i suppose it does, and I do read this newsgroup a couple of times a
day... I musta missed the very beginning where it stated what bike it
was.... including previous text is an even bigger help too!! (Well.. thats
just my opinion).....
Fwed
"David" <showbag [at] alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:43baf6c1$1_4 [at] news.chariot.net.au...
> Go to the beginning of the thread helps
> Lushy fro AU
> "fweddybear" <fweddybear [at] cox.net> wrote in message
> news:x8Btf.38566$QW2.33486 [at] dukeread08...
>>>> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
>>>> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
>>>
>>> *What* clutch fluid?
>>
>> Most times, I don't see the complete post as some people do not
>> include previous posts in with their reply, as in my case. So , with
>> that said, and not seeing the post from the beginning, and also not
>> knowing what bike he is referring to, I suggested a couple of things to
>> check, knowing that one or more might not apply....
>>
>> Fwed
>>
>
>
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