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Motorcycles » rec.motorcycles.tech » Battery advice, pls
| Battery advice, pls [message #498633] |
Tue, 01 November 2005 21:59 |
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Hi All,
The battery on my scooter is laid on the side, and it's supposed to be
a gel battery, otherwise the acid would spill out of the battery, I'm
told.
The openings of the battery are indeed sideways, and my doubt is if
I'm stuck with gel batteries (possibly from that manufacturer) for
life, or if I have alternatives, either a lead/acid battery with the
largest side down and the openings side up, or if I have to start
thinking about a new position for a new battery.
By the way, is there anyway how you can tell when a battery is about
to make push the bike home??
TIA,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498635 ] |
Tue, 01 November 2005 22:35 |
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BigBen wrote:
> By the way, is there anyway how you can tell when a battery is about
> to make push the bike home??
Buy yourself a digital voltmeter for accuracy. I bought one from a
discount tool store for only $7 USD.
Charging voltage when the engine is running may be around 15 volts DC,
and a fully charged battery will indicate about 12.8 volts after it has
sat for half an hour. If the voltage drops below 12.0 volts, the
battery is too weak to be trusted.
There is still an exception to this 12.8 volts rule. That's when the
spongy lead plates get covered with lead sulfate. The battery is said
to be "sulfated".
The battery can be charged up to 13.2 volts but the charge is only on
the surface and the battery discharges imediately when you turn the
ignition key on. All you hear is a "click!" and everything goes dead.
If you charge a battery that's in reasonably good condition, you can
leave the headlight turned on for about half an hour without the engine
running and the lights will still be lit and the voltage will be more
than 12 volts.
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498636 ] |
Tue, 01 November 2005 23:42 |
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"skimmer" <rynchops_niger [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130880952.511700.158860 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> BigBen wrote:
>
>> By the way, is there anyway how you can tell when a battery is about
>> to make push the bike home??
>
> Buy yourself a digital voltmeter for accuracy. I bought one from a
> discount tool store for only $7 USD.
>
> Charging voltage when the engine is running may be around 15 volts DC,
> and a fully charged battery will indicate about 12.8 volts after it has
> sat for half an hour. If the voltage drops below 12.0 volts, the
> battery is too weak to be trusted.
>
> There is still an exception to this 12.8 volts rule. That's when the
> spongy lead plates get covered with lead sulfate. The battery is said
> to be "sulfated".
>
> The battery can be charged up to 13.2 volts but the charge is only on
> the surface and the battery discharges imediately when you turn the
> ignition key on. All you hear is a "click!" and everything goes dead.
>
> If you charge a battery that's in reasonably good condition, you can
> leave the headlight turned on for about half an hour without the engine
> running and the lights will still be lit and the voltage will be more
> than 12 volts.
>
I was trying to think of the term "sulphate" when I was writing a post the
other day. Instead, I used oxidized, which is incorrect. Thanks for bring it
up.
Ed Cregger
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498644 ] |
Wed, 02 November 2005 20:23 |
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On 1 Nov 2005 13:35:52 -0800, "skimmer" <rynchops_niger [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
>There is still an exception to this 12.8 volts rule. That's when the
>spongy lead plates get covered with lead sulfate. The battery is said
>to be "sulfated".
Right ... I've seen that in my car battery, and treated it with some
"pills" for removing sulphate, and a recharge. That car battery,
treated that way lasted me about 8 years!
On a gel battery, I can't do anything about, can I? That's one of the
reasons why I'd like to avoid having to use a gel battery laid down on
its largest side, with the openings on the smallest side, which makes
just about impossible to use a lead/acid battery, as far as I can
tell.
Any ideas??
See you,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498645 ] |
Wed, 02 November 2005 21:43 |
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BigBen <go.spam [at] somewhere.else> wrote:
> On 1 Nov 2005 13:35:52 -0800, "skimmer" <rynchops_niger [at] yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >There is still an exception to this 12.8 volts rule. That's when the
> >spongy lead plates get covered with lead sulfate. The battery is said
> >to be "sulfated".
>
> Right ... I've seen that in my car battery, and treated it with some
> "pills" for removing sulphate, and a recharge. That car battery,
> treated that way lasted me about 8 years!
>
> On a gel battery, I can't do anything about, can I? That's one of the
> reasons why I'd like to avoid having to use a gel battery laid down on
> its largest side, with the openings on the smallest side, which makes
> just about impossible to use a lead/acid battery, as far as I can
> tell.
>
> Any ideas??
Yeah. Use a 'gel' (most of them used on motorcycles aren't actually gel
batteries, by the way, but are sealed valve regulated lead acid/absorbed
glass mat types, which are different) battery, and enjoy the advantages[1]
that they provide. I'm not sure what your reasons are for wanting to
use a conventional battery instead of the sealed battery that your bike
came with.
[1] http://yuasabattery.com/yuasa05/pdfs/TechMan.pdf
--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498646 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 00:49 |
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"Mark Olson" <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid> wrote in message
news:11mi98ft2m73t6d [at] corp.supernews.com...
> BigBen <go.spam [at] somewhere.else> wrote:
>> On 1 Nov 2005 13:35:52 -0800, "skimmer" <rynchops_niger [at] yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >There is still an exception to this 12.8 volts rule. That's when the
>> >spongy lead plates get covered with lead sulfate. The battery is said
>> >to be "sulfated".
>>
>> Right ... I've seen that in my car battery, and treated it with some
>> "pills" for removing sulphate, and a recharge. That car battery,
>> treated that way lasted me about 8 years!
>>
>> On a gel battery, I can't do anything about, can I? That's one of the
>> reasons why I'd like to avoid having to use a gel battery laid down on
>> its largest side, with the openings on the smallest side, which makes
>> just about impossible to use a lead/acid battery, as far as I can
>> tell.
>>
>> Any ideas??
>
> Yeah. Use a 'gel' (most of them used on motorcycles aren't actually gel
> batteries, by the way, but are sealed valve regulated lead acid/absorbed
> glass mat types, which are different) battery, and enjoy the advantages[1]
> that they provide. I'm not sure what your reasons are for wanting to
> use a conventional battery instead of the sealed battery that your bike
> came with.
>
> [1] http://yuasabattery.com/yuasa05/pdfs/TechMan.pdf
>
> --
> Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
Batteries are cheap, compared to how they used to cost.
I like the maintenance free batteries. If it looks at me crossways, I
replace it. I don't have time to "maintain" a traditional lead/acid battery.
My time is too valuable for such trivial stuff.
Ed Cregger
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498650 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 12:22 |
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:43:59 -0000, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>that they provide. I'm not sure what your reasons are for wanting to
>use a conventional battery instead of the sealed battery that your bike
>came with.
My conventional car battery lasted around 8 years, with maintenance,
of course. Can I expect anything near from my bike gel battery?
For a small battery, it costed a huge price - short after buying my
bike, I let the battery fully discharge, and had to buy a new one; 3
years ago, it costed about 100 euros!
I dislike the small space for the battery on the bike, and the fact
that to fit in there it must stand on its larger side - laid down. I
feel I'm limited to ging back to a garage of the bike brand, and ask
for a battery for bike so and so, instead of being able to drop by one
of many shops around selling batteries, and chose which brand I like,
as long as it measures no more than so and so, and has a minimum
power of x.
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498651 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 12:26 |
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On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:49:45 -0500, "Ed Cregger" <ecregger [at] homtail.com>
wrote:
>If it looks at me crossways, I
>replace it.
Couldn' agree more, specially since you can't push a twist 'n go, like
mine.
>My time is too valuable for such trivial stuff.
So is my money - 100 euros for a 6 amp battery, you find cheap??
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498652 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 12:37 |
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BigBen wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:43:59 -0000, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>that they provide. I'm not sure what your reasons are for wanting to
>>use a conventional battery instead of the sealed battery that your bike
>>came with.
>
> My conventional car battery lasted around 8 years, with maintenance,
> of course. Can I expect anything near from my bike gel battery?
That sort of longevity can't be guaranteed with any battery.
> For a small battery, it costed a huge price - short after buying my
> bike, I let the battery fully discharge, and had to buy a new one; 3
> years ago, it costed about 100 euros!
My experience is the opposite- I've completely flattened the VRLA
battery on my SV650S four or five times and it works like new despite
it being more than four years old.
> I dislike the small space for the battery on the bike, and the fact
Why dislike it, it works?
> that to fit in there it must stand on its larger side - laid down. I
again, why do you care, it works.
> feel I'm limited to ging back to a garage of the bike brand, and ask
> for a battery for bike so and so, instead of being able to drop by one
> of many shops around selling batteries, and chose which brand I like,
You are not limited to buying a sealed battery from a particular shop.
There are aftermarket suppliers of sealed lead acid batteries.
> as long as it measures no more than so and so, and has a minimum
> power of x.
You can buy batteries based only on size and capacity, but I prefer
to buy exact replacement batteries, including terminal type and location
rather than using just any battery that is no larger than the available
space.
What model and year of bike do you have, and what type number is the
battery? I'm surprised that a small 6Ah battery would cost 100 euros.
--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498653 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 13:29 |
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"BigBen" <go.spam [at] somewhere.else> wrote in message
news:4367d5e6.35713390 [at] news20.forteinc.com...
> Hi All,
>
> The battery on my scooter is laid on the side, and it's supposed to be
> a gel battery, otherwise the acid would spill out of the battery, I'm
> told.
>
> The openings of the battery are indeed sideways, and my doubt is if
> I'm stuck with gel batteries (possibly from that manufacturer) for
> life, or if I have alternatives, either a lead/acid battery with the
> largest side down and the openings side up, or if I have to start
> thinking about a new position for a new battery.
>
> By the way, is there anyway how you can tell when a battery is about
> to make push the bike home??
>
What are you using to charge your battery now? If you actually do find a
lead acid, (or some other type of battery), that fits then you will probably
have to use a different charger specifically designed for the type of
battery used.
My cheap Chinese 3 wheel scooter has an LED bar indicator but it seems to be
pegged until its about to go dead -then the bars drop fast- kind of useless.
I go by the 'feel' more than using an indicator. When it starts to get a
little sluggish.... slows down etc.... I have learned the hard way about how
far I can go before I have to get off and push. Lucily most of the time I
can jump off and it stll has enough 'juice' to carrry my 5 y.o. home under
power.
Kevin
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498676 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 23:27 |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:37:02 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>My experience is the opposite- I've completely flattened the VRLA
Excuse me? What kind of battry is that?
>> I dislike the small space for the battery on the bike, and the fact
>
>Why dislike it, it works?
>
>> that to fit in there it must stand on its larger side - laid down. I
>
>again, why do you care, it works.
Because it doesn't give me a choice of either this type of battery or
another. It's a wonderfull thing to have a choice!
>You are not limited to buying a sealed battery from a particular shop.
>There are aftermarket suppliers of sealed lead acid batteries.
Can a sealed lead/acid battery work standing on its largest side, not
with the opening turned upwards?
>What model and year of bike do you have, and what type number is the
>battery? I'm surprised that a small 6Ah battery would cost 100 euros.
Yuasa, gel type, for a Honda SH, from a Honda dealer. I was not happy.
And since most people claim batteries last about 3 or 4 years, I
should probably need a new one soon.
In the morning, with engine off, it outputs 12,5 Volts, presently.
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498677 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 23:31 |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:29:41 GMT, "Kevin Ricks" <klricks [at] prodigy.net>
wrote:
>What are you using to charge your battery now? If you actually do find a
>lead acid, (or some other type of battery), that fits then you will probably
>have to use a different charger specifically designed for the type of
>battery used.
Well, I'm using a pretty well known battery charger, somethingMate,
made in Belgium, specifically for motorcycles - that is, the output
current is designed to charge low capacity batteries like the ones
motorcycles normally have.
However, my 8 year old car battery, lead/acid type, now dead, used to
love this charger...
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498678 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 00:23 |
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BigBen wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:37:02 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>My experience is the opposite- I've completely flattened the VRLA
>
> Excuse me? What kind of battry is that?
Did you read the Yuasa technical manual? Valve Regulated Lead Acid.
>>> I dislike the small space for the battery on the bike, and the fact
>>
>>Why dislike it, it works?
>>
>>> that to fit in there it must stand on its larger side - laid down. I
>>
>>again, why do you care, it works.
>
> Because it doesn't give me a choice of either this type of battery or
> another. It's a wonderfull thing to have a choice!
I prefer to have the best performance and feature set, if that leaves
me with fewer choices, no big deal.
>>You are not limited to buying a sealed battery from a particular shop.
>>There are aftermarket suppliers of sealed lead acid batteries.
>
> Can a sealed lead/acid battery work standing on its largest side, not
> with the opening turned upwards?
I believe the answer is yes.
>>What model and year of bike do you have, and what type number is the
>>battery? I'm surprised that a small 6Ah battery would cost 100 euros.
>
> Yuasa, gel type, for a Honda SH, from a Honda dealer. I was not happy.
You could go nearly anywhere other than a Honda dealer and get the same
battery for 60% of the dealer price or less.
> And since most people claim batteries last about 3 or 4 years, I
> should probably need a new one soon.
Most people mostly spout a load of old cobblers, I've found. Did you
actually need to have your original battery replaced because it wouldn't
hold a charge, or did someone tell you that you needed one because it
had been flattened? I keep a close eye on the condition of my batteries
and replace them when they start to go off, I don't believe in replacing
them before they show signs of weakening. The worst case would be I'd
need a jump start or a bump start if the battery got weak suddenly.
> In the morning, with engine off, it outputs 12,5 Volts, presently.
That's a mite low for 100% charge on a sealed lead acid type.
Read the Yuasa Technical Manual at the link I gave earlier in the
thread, there's a lot of good information there.
--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #498682 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 02:05 |
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In article <11ml6v6j1lqp4c [at] corp.supernews.com>,
Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > Can a sealed lead/acid battery work standing on its largest side, not
> > with the opening turned upwards?
>
> I believe the answer is yes.
From Yuasa's online FAQ:
> Can an AGM battery be installed in any position ?
>
>
> In most applications, batteries are installed in an upright position, but in
> some situations there is a need to tilt them (sometimes at very extreme
> angles) or lay them completely flat on their backs.
> Yuasa typically supplies AGM batteries with separate acid packs that you must
> fill (and charge) yourself. We do not recommend that this type of battery be
> installed on it's side, or even an extreme angle, due to possible leakage
> occuring.
> Fortunately, Yuasa offers many AGM batteries as "Factory Activated".
> Generally this type of battery is safe to install in almost any direction. If
> there is any question of a particular vehicle/battery/installation please
> contact us for our specific recommendation before attempting to use battery.
So, the manufacturer seems to be saying "sometimes". I'd say that a
factory-sealed (and perhaps this is what the original question meant)
battery is likely suitable for use on its side, but there are reasons
why one might not recommend it (what you think of the reasons is another
issue).
However, Since Yuasa asks people to contact them, the OP could just get
the part numbers of the batteries that he's considering and fire off an
e-mail along the lines: "can I use the following batteries when oriented
on their largest side?"
I suspect that you'll get an answer fairly shortly. It might be a CYA
answer, but it will the official recommendation of the manufacturer.
>
> >>What model and year of bike do you have, and what type number is the
> >>battery? I'm surprised that a small 6Ah battery would cost 100 euros.
> >
> > Yuasa, gel type, for a Honda SH, from a Honda dealer. I was not happy.
>
> You could go nearly anywhere other than a Honda dealer and get the same
> battery for 60% of the dealer price or less.
I dunno whether it's relevant, but I do like the story. I once went into
a battery dealer (Interstate shop) with some trepidation looking for a
replacement battery for a bicycle light. I'd always heard about how
expensive those things were to replace, and it was pretty old...maybe
they couldn't even get it! So, I asked the guy behind the counter if he
could get me a replacement (I had brought the old battery in). He looked
at it and said "Well..." and walked to the display rack by the front
door and pulled one off of it! 4.5Ah 6V lead-acid gel battery. Total
price for the replacement: $6
I walked out of that store a _very_ happy man: purchase was far easier
than I had expected, far cheaper than I had expected, and the new
battery just dropped right in.
>
> > And since most people claim batteries last about 3 or 4 years, I
> > should probably need a new one soon.
[snip]
Mark's advice is good here, and it's perfectly compatible with what
you've been told. It's entirely possible that many batteries only last
3-4 years in service. It's certainly true that most people don't take
good care of their batteries, and that can affect service life. Read
through the tech manual, understand what you're using and it's
maintenance needs (and act on them), and you may end up being one of
those people who consistently have batteries last 5 or more years. The
savings in time, frustration, and replacement batteries does add up.
--
Later,
John
johajohn [at] indianahoosiers.edu
'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503720 ] |
Sat, 05 November 2005 04:35 |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:37:02 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>My experience is the opposite- I've completely flattened the VRLA
>battery on my SV650S four or five times and it works like new despite
>it being more than four years old.
Having now scrolled through the Technical Manual from Yuasa batteries,
I'm pretty sure the kind of battery I have in my bike is a VRLA type
one, such as the Bosch Silver I saw the other day at Carrefour.
Now, somethinh else I'd like to understand: how did you managed to
revive your flatened out VRSLA battery?? Did you insert any further
acid (or any other liquid in it)?
Finally, are how dry are VRSLA batteries actually? That is, if you can
laid down a VRLSA battery, why couldn't you possibly do the same with
a lead acid one?
Thank you very much for all information so far!
Best wishes,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503724 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 22:29 |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:23:14 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>>>My experience is the opposite- I've completely flattened the VRLA
>>
>> Excuse me? What kind of battry is that?
>
>Did you read the Yuasa technical manual? Valve Regulated Lead Acid.
Do Yuasa batteries have a manual?? I only saw the box vaguely at the
shop, the battery being taken out of the box, the liquid being
inserted, etc. No manual, I'm sorry
But if you're talking Lead Acid, what does the "Valve Regulated" do,
diferent than on "normal" batteries?
>I prefer to have the best performance and feature set, if that leaves
>me with fewer choices, no big deal.
If it "offers" me more than what I'm interest in, I'm not so happy
that I don't have a choice but to pay a high price for something I'm
not so interested in
>You could go nearly anywhere other than a Honda dealer and get the same
>battery for 60% of the dealer price or less.
Right .. If you know what you actually need, and what will work in
your bike. Just a few days ago I was lokking at a Bosch Silver 9 amp
battery, for 85 euros, from whch I basically could not tell the
diference from mine. Then the shop assistant asked if I needed any
"help"; when I told I was looking for a gel type batery, he told me
straight away that battery would not be suitable. I still have trouble
believing his words, not having seen any practical diference from the
battery I have.
> Did you
>actually need to have your original battery replaced because it wouldn't
>hold a charge, or did someone tell you that you needed one because it
>had been flattened?
I left the ignition key on the switched on position, for about 3 days,
in my garage. After that it would not start the bike - of course.
At the time I did not have any "motorcycle specific" charger, so I
took it to the dealer, and they told they would try to "revive" it.
The next day they told that had been impossible to achieve, so, I
needed a new battery :-(
> I keep a close eye on the condition of my batteries
>and replace them when they start to go off, I don't believe in replacing
>them before they show signs of weakening.
Define "signs of weakning", please. Do you measure the output tension
at all, or just wait to have some dificulty starting your bike?
> The worst case would be I'd
>need a jump start or a bump start if the battery got weak suddenly.
I don't think you can bump start a twist 'n go :-(
>That's a mite low for 100% charge on a sealed lead acid type.
3 or 4 years they say ...
By the way, my new car battery, the one which replace the 8 years old
one, measures 12,7 volt; it's only a feww weeks old.
>Read the Yuasa Technical Manual at the link I gave earlier in the
>thread, there's a lot of good information there.
Sorry, I forgot about that. I'll try again, although the download
froze at some point before I got the whole manual.
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503725 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 22:30 |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:31:36 GMT, go.spam [at] somewhere.else (BigBen)
wrote:
>Well, I'm using a pretty well known battery charger, somethingMate,
>made in Belgium, specifically for motorcycles - that is, the output
OptimMate III.
Cheers,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503726 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 22:30 |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 01:05:06 GMT, John Johnson <null [at] invalid.com>
wrote:
>> Fortunately, Yuasa offers many AGM batteries as "Factory Activated".
>> Generally this type of battery is safe to install in almost any direction. If
Mine was activated at the dealer, right in front of my eyes. It's
never leaked (so far).
>3-4 years in service. It's certainly true that most people don't take
>good care of their batteries, and that can affect service life. Read
>through the tech manual, understand what you're using and it's
>maintenance needs (and act on them), and you may end up being one of
>those people who consistently have batteries last 5 or more years. The
>savings in time, frustration, and replacement batteries does add up.
While I'm checking the engine oil, break fluid, and coolant levels, I
don't mind checking my battery/ies (since I also have 2 cars, 1 of
them with a sealed battery to which I can not perform any maintenance,
AFAIK, at least).
Then, going after a proper and good value for money, new battery,
takes its time too, and I find it far more unpleasant than mainting my
batteries.
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503727 ] |
Sat, 05 November 2005 13:28 |
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BigBen wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:37:02 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>My experience is the opposite- I've completely flattened the VRLA
>>battery on my SV650S four or five times and it works like new despite
>>it being more than four years old.
>
> Having now scrolled through the Technical Manual from Yuasa batteries,
> I'm pretty sure the kind of battery I have in my bike is a VRLA type
> one, such as the Bosch Silver I saw the other day at Carrefour.
I was pretty sure it was, since 'gel' batteries aren't used on motorcycles.
What is the Yuasa model number of the battery used on your SH125i?
> Now, somethinh else I'd like to understand: how did you managed to
> revive your flatened out VRSLA battery?? Did you insert any further
> acid (or any other liquid in it)?
No. I put a charger on it.
> Finally, are how dry are VRSLA batteries actually? That is, if you can
> laid down a VRLSA battery, why couldn't you possibly do the same with
> a lead acid one?
Sealed VRLA batteries are not dry. They are basically a wet-cell lead
acid battery that is tightly sealed. They will only vent if severely
overcharged or overloaded by being short-circuited. You can't lay a
conventional lead-acid battery on its side because the electrolyte will
leak out the vent, which is located on the top of the case, and is
always open. You can't just plug up the vent, if you're thinking of
doing that. Sealed VRLA batteries have a different chemistry that
allows them to be sealed.
--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503728 ] |
Sat, 05 November 2005 14:37 |
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"BigBen" <go.spam [at] somewhere.else> wrote in
news:436a8d65.1305218 [at] news20.forteinc.com...
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:37:02 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
> Yuasa, gel type, for a Honda SH, from a Honda dealer. I was not happy.
> And since most people claim batteries last about 3 or 4 years, I
> should probably need a new one soon.
Sorry for jumping so late in this thread. In my not so
limited experience Yuasa sealed batteries are the
Rolls Royce of batteries. For me they last at least
twice as long as "open" Yuasa motorcycle batteries.
And let's not talk about "The light of the rising sun"
or something like that for next to nothing: Crap!
The only thing you have to think about with a sealed
lead acid battery is NOT to let it sit for days or
longer while discharged. Keep it in use or use a
good quality maintenance charger like your OptiMate
and it can last 8 to 10 years. My guess is that one
reason they last so long is that you add no
contamination, something that is inevitable with the
"open" type, even very small amounts of the wrong
stuff (that might very well be present even in
special "battery water") can shorten the battery life
a lot.
Get a good battery and try to reduce cost rather by
looking for the best supplier. And read the instructions
that comes with the battery! Fully charge the new
battery, 10 or 24 hours I think it is, and it will reward
you with long and strong performance. I got a bit
worried when you said that the dealer "activated" your
battery in front of you, unless you spent the whole
day in his shop he did not do it properly.
--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503736 ] |
Sun, 06 November 2005 02:58 |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:37:57 GMT, "OH-"
<ole.holmblad.hat [at] comhem.se.hat> wrote:
> I got a bit
>worried when you said that the dealer "activated" your
>battery in front of you, unless you spent the whole
>day in his shop he did not do it properly.
Well, I saw him insert the acid into the battery, and then he told me
the battery would need to get a special charge program for new
batteries, so my new battery would not be available before the next
day.
Thank you for the informations!
Regards,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503737 ] |
Sun, 06 November 2005 03:17 |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 06:28:43 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>I was pretty sure it was, since 'gel' batteries aren't used on motorcycles.
>What is the Yuasa model number of the battery used on your SH125i?
I still have the carburetor model.. The battery model, according to
the receipt - which right now I have nearer than the battery - is
YTX7L-BS
>No. I put a charger on it.
OK, if we both flat out our batteries, why could you possibly revive
yours, and I can not??
The fellows at the Honda dealer told me they put the "dead" battery
through all sorts of reviving programs in a "professional" charger
from the same brand as Optimate, several times, I they could not make
it work, so I had to buy a new one.
I brought the "dead" battery home, insert some water in it, charged it
for a while with a 4 amp charger - the only one I had at the time, and
after that, the multimeter read 12.X volts - I can't recall exactly.
I thought the battery had to be working well, it was only a damned
shame that now it had something moren than gel inside it, so I could
no longer used it laying on its largest side, or it would spill, of
course, I thought :-(
>doing that. Sealed VRLA batteries have a different chemistry that
>allows them to be sealed.
OK, I'm always learning about batteries - the last time was when I had
to learn the difference between a start battery - as used in bikes,
cars, etc, and a traction battery - like used in golf cars, for
instance: a friend of mine in an electrical wheelchair kept being sold
start batteries, which as you can guess did not last her very long.
(I also learned about stationary batteries, such as used in boat
radios, and probably the ones in our cell phones.)
Thanks a lot for the kind and clear information!
Best wishes,
JBR
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503738 ] |
Sun, 06 November 2005 05:50 |
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BigBen wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 06:28:43 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>I was pretty sure it was, since 'gel' batteries aren't used on motorcycles.
>>What is the Yuasa model number of the battery used on your SH125i?
>
> I still have the carburetor model.. The battery model, according to
> the receipt - which right now I have nearer than the battery - is
> YTX7L-BS
OK- that's the one I suspected it would be. I searched for prices and
found a replacement selling for something like 32 euros, which is why I
suggested not buying the battery from the Honda dealer:
http://batterien.kortenbrede.de/shop/ok_40_3_2_15302
I'm not sure if the 32,48€ price is inclusive of the 7,50€ core charge
or not, my German isn't quite good enough to make that out.
>>No. I put a charger on it.
>
> OK, if we both flat out our batteries, why could you possibly revive
> yours, and I can not??
>
> The fellows at the Honda dealer told me they put the "dead" battery
> through all sorts of reviving programs in a "professional" charger
> from the same brand as Optimate, several times, I they could not make
> it work, so I had to buy a new one.
Nobody told me I couldn't revive my battery... so I just did it. I didn't
use a fancy battery 'reviver'- I just used my good old auto battery charger
with 10A and 2A settings.
> I brought the "dead" battery home, insert some water in it, charged it
> for a while with a 4 amp charger - the only one I had at the time, and
> after that, the multimeter read 12.X volts - I can't recall exactly.
>
> I thought the battery had to be working well, it was only a damned
> shame that now it had something moren than gel inside it, so I could
> no longer used it laying on its largest side, or it would spill, of
> course, I thought :-(
It might have worked had you left it alone and not tried to add water.
Draining the battery at a slow rate doesn't make it vent and the pressure
has to get higher than normal to make that type of battery vent anything.
--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
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| Re: Battery advice, pls [message #503766 ] |
Mon, 07 November 2005 03:04 |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:50:47 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm [at] tiny.invalid>
wrote:
>OK- that's the one I suspected it would be. I searched for prices and
>found a replacement selling for something like 32 euros, which is why I
>suggested not buying the battery from the Honda dealer:
>
>http://batterien.kortenbrede.de/shop/ok_40_3_2_15302
How on earth did you manage to find that?? Is theis the kind of stuff
you can find on ebay too?? Lord, I won't pay around 100 euros anymore
for a battery for my bike! I'm in state of shock right now!
>> I thought the battery had to be working well, it was only a damned
>> shame that now it had something moren than gel inside it, so I could
>> no longer used it laying on its largest side, or it would spill, of
>> course, I thought :-(
>
>It might have worked had you left it alone and not tried to add water.
>Draining the battery at a slow rate doesn't make it vent and the pressure
>has to get higher than normal to make that type of battery vent anything.
There's a saying in Portugal that goes something this: one who doesn't
know, is like one who can't see!
I'll try to see next time.
Thanks a lot for all the info!
Best wishes,
JBR
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