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Producers » rec.autos.makers.saturn » Vue & Equinox...
| Vue & Equinox... [message #498330] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 19:40 |
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Just curious, but as I was driving to work this morning I pulled up next to
the Chevy Equinox and noticed that the wheel base and overall external shape
of it seemed identical to the Vue....Since they are both GM, are they both
built off the same platform? Like I said, I was just curious....
Scott
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| Re: Vue & Equinox... [message #498331 ] |
Thu, 03 November 2005 19:45 |
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"IYM" <sunrisr [at] optonline.net> wrote in message
news:dkdli2$g05 [at] dispatch.concentric.net...
> Just curious, but as I was driving to work this morning I pulled up next
to
> the Chevy Equinox and noticed that the wheel base and overall external
shape
> of it seemed identical to the Vue....Since they are both GM, are they both
> built off the same platform? Like I said, I was just curious....
Same basic platform, but significant differences in the implementation -
steel vs polymer body panels, completely different engine and transmissions,
different seating arrangements, etc.
Ed
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| Re: Vue & Equinox... [message #498339 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 03:52 |
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In article <436a5f2e_1 [at] news1.prserv.net>, cewhite3 [at] removemindspring.com
says...
>
> "IYM" <sunrisr [at] optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:dkdli2$g05 [at] dispatch.concentric.net...
> > Just curious, but as I was driving to work this morning I pulled up next
> to
> > the Chevy Equinox and noticed that the wheel base and overall external
> shape
> > of it seemed identical to the Vue....Since they are both GM, are they both
> > built off the same platform? Like I said, I was just curious....
>
> Same basic platform, but significant differences in the implementation -
> steel vs polymer body panels, completely different engine and transmissions,
> different seating arrangements, etc.
>
> Ed
Not the same platform. The Equinox is a L platform and is made in China
(Geo replacement). The Vue is a Z platform and is not made in China. The
Equinox uses the GM's 60 degree based V6 which in this case is also
built in China. Stay the heck away from all 60 degree engines and those
that are even narrower as they are a pain to work on and will cost you
additional labor.
Bad V6:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3200_engine
Worlds Best V6:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3800_engine
(Guess which one GM's phasing out...)
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| Re: Vue & Equinox... [message #503584 ] |
Fri, 04 November 2005 16:40 |
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"blah blah" <bl [at] h.blah> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dd496fb267cf65c9896c0 [at] news-server.woh.rr.com...
> Not the same platform. The Equinox is a L platform and is made in China
> (Geo replacement). The Vue is a Z platform and is not made in China. The
> Equinox uses the GM's 60 degree based V6 which in this case is also
> built in China. Stay the heck away from all 60 degree engines and those
> that are even narrower as they are a pain to work on and will cost you
> additional labor.
Well everything I have read says otherwise:
From http://media.gm.com/news/releases/020903_equinox.html :
"The vehicle will be based on GM's Theta architecture, which is the same
architecture as the Saturn VUE."
From http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=platform :
Theta- The unibody crossover platform holds-up the Chevrolet Equinox, Saturn
Vue and Pontiac Torrent. Theta's have front/rear independent suspension and
are powered by a 4-cylinder (Saturn Vue), a Honda V6 (Saturn Vue), or GM's
'good-ole' 3400 V6 (Equinox and Torrent). All of which use a 5-speed
automatic, however the Vue can be had with a 5-speed manual or a specially
tuned 5-speed manual in the Vue Redline.
Things to know-
Theta is such a good platform, Cadillac may use it!
Expect the platform to be used for quite awhile.
The Equinox is built in Ingersoll , Ontario , Canada (see
http://media.gm.com/us/chevrolet/en/product_services/r_truck s/r_c_equinox/index.html )
..
Also see:
http://www.edmunds.com/buyguide/100370217/newmodels/review.h tml
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/suvs/0405_chevrolet_equ inox/
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/job.aspx?year=2006&mak e=Chevrolet&model=Equinox
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/chevrolet/trucks/ equinox/safety.htm
> Bad V6:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3200_engine
The Equinox uses the 3400 V-6, but it is built in China. See
http://tinyurl.com/7q9zd . GM certainly had problems with the implementation
of this engine. It started out as a rip off copy of the Ford 3.8L German V-6
in the early 80s (for the X-Cars). I thought they ironed out most of the
prolems by now.
I disagree that 60 degree V-6 are bad. A 60 degree V-6 is inherently easier
to make even firing and to balance. It is also narrower, an important
consideration for transverse mounted engines. I've had both 60 degree and 90
degree V-6 engines, and generally prefer to work on the 60 degree engines.
> Worlds Best V6:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3800_engine
I am not sure I would rate this the worlds best V-6, but I certainly agree
it is a very very good V-6, especially considering its origins as a bastard
step child.
> (Guess which one GM's phasing out...)
Neither? If you are asking me to guess, I'd say it is the 3800 V-6 becasue
it has pretty much been developed as far as it can be. Smaller V-6 engines
from competitors have surpassed it in power and economy.
Ed
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| Re: Vue & Equinox... [message #503587 ] |
Sat, 05 November 2005 05:23 |
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Park Avenues, 88's, 98's, & LeSabre would all have an H for the forth
character and something else for the 5th. For the 4th to be different
there would have to be serious differences in the design. media.gm.com
never said anything about platform, only "architecture".
> The Equinox uses the 3400 V-6, but it is built in China. See
> http://tinyurl.com/7q9zd . GM certainly had problems with the implementation
> of this engine. It started out as a rip off copy of the Ford 3.8L German V-6
> in the early 80s (for the X-Cars). I thought they ironed out most of the
> prolems by now.
>
Its a ford/german rip off? No wonder I hated it so much all of these
years! It sure enough is built like a damn ford! >.<
GM is phasing out the 3800, lets try to figure out why by compairing the
two engine types in cars with simular stats.
------------------------
2006 Pontiac G6 GT Sedan - 3.5L (60 deg)
201HP - 222Torque - 21/29 mpg
3415Lbs
Final Drive Ratio 3.29 (Low Gear better City)
------------VS------------
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan - 3.8L (3800)
200HP - 230Torque - 20/30 mpg
3477Lbs
Final Drive Ratio 3.05 (Tall Gear better Highway)
------------------------
(numbers are from yahoo autos)
------------------------
Pontiac Grand Prix GT Sedan - 3.8L SC (3800)
260HP - 280Torque - 19/28 mpg
3484Lbs
Final Drive Ratio 2.93
-----------VS-------------
2006 Pontiac G6 GTP Sedan - 3.9L (60 deg)
240HP - 241Torque - 18/26 mpg
3525Lbs
Final Drive Ratio 3.69 (why so low with that much torque?)
-----------VS-------------
Better gas mileage? How about torque? Can you figure out the reason for
the change? I see no advantages over the 3800. Bean counters and CEO's
who never worked on cars in their life are the only reason for the
change.
> I disagree that 60 degree V-6 are bad. A 60 degree V-6 is inherently easier
> to make even firing and to balance. It is also narrower, an important
> consideration for transverse mounted engines. I've had both 60 degree and 90
> degree V-6 engines, and generally prefer to work on the 60 degree engines.
When is the last time you had an intake off of a 60deg motor or a 3.8?
How about the t-stat? Ever pull the injectors? Ever had the oil pan off
of either? Ever see the beefy bottem end of a 3800? When compaired to a
3800 the 60deg v6 is meek, crammed, and inferior. You cant work those
problems out of it unless you start over. Dont have enough room under
the hood for a 3800? That is the fault of the car body, not the engine.
Cars used to have things called "hoods". Nowadays they might as well
weld them shut since you cant get to anything anymore... It takes 15
minutes to change a simple t-stat on a 3800, it takes 2 hours to change
it on a 3100 because the throttle body and other crap has it buried. At
a $1 a minute whats the difference in labor cost there?
I'd take a 3800 in a H or W platform any day, easy to service and has
good gas mileage and power even when compaired to all other v6 cars. You
couldnt give me a car with any other v6 in it. Other v6's may give
better HP numbers but they rev to high to make it, have timing belts,
cost more to service, use more valves and cams, dont have the torque of
a 3800, and are flat out a painful and costly to work on. I like to make
things as easy on myself and my wallet as I can.
What I'd like to have seen was a Series IV 3800 that was all aluminum
with displacement on demand (hp could be increase as well as MPG), coil
over plug, and was stuck in the upcoming RWD Zeta Platform. I'd buy one
within a year or two of its release if they did that and I never ever
had any desire to buy new. As for worlds best, the 3800 was ranked on
the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th Century list. (I know how much
you love magazine articals.)
> Smaller V-6 engines
> from competitors have surpassed it in power and economy.
For the fun of it lets do another comparison
------------------------
2006 Honda Accord Coupe EX - 3.0L
244HP - 211Torque - 20/29 mpg (More HP, Ok Mileage)
3364Lbs (Coupe, Less Weight, better mileage?)
Final Drive Ratio 4.43 (Making up for lack of torque = more revolutions
= more engine wear)
Timing Belt (200-500 bucks every 60k-90k miles)
0-60 in 6.9 sec
-----------VS-------------
2006 Pontiac Grand Prix Sedan - 3.8L (3800)
200HP - 230Torque - 20/30 mpg (More Torque, Better Mileage)
3477Lbs (Sedan, More Weight and better mpg)
Final Drive Ratio 3.05 (Tall Gear better Highway, less engine wear)
Timing Chain (No service cost)
0-60 in 8.0 sec (1 sec more than Accord... Unless supercharged.)
------------------------
The 3800's been around how long and thats the best the competition has?
I'll sacrafice 44hp, high repair cost, high cruising rpms, 5th gear, and
1 second for the 3800 any day.
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| Re: Vue & Equinox... [message #527078 ] |
Mon, 21 November 2005 18:08 |
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blah blah wrote:
> Not the same platform. The Equinox is a L platform and is made in China
> (Geo replacement). The Vue is a Z platform and is not made in China. The
> Equinox uses the GM's 60 degree based V6 which in this case is also
> built in China. Stay the heck away from all 60 degree engines and those
> that are even narrower as they are a pain to work on and will cost you
> additional labor.
>
You are confused. Indeed the V6 Vue uses a Honda engine (the only GM
product to do so). The 2005 Equinox V6 indeed uses a GM V-6 which is
made in China, thought. The vehicle itself is built in a joint venture
plant in Ingersoll, Ontario (Canada).
http://www.forbes.com/2004/06/28/cx_cd_0628test.html
John
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