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Motorcycles » alt.motorcycles.harley » 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture
| 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #477316] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 02:29 |
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HELP,
I have a 1997 Road King Fuel injected, stock heads and displacement.
Stage 2 Air intake, injectors (red), S and S 502 Cam, power comander,
and Thunder pipes.
I bought the bike prebuild like this and have had it two dealers
multiple times and still runs to rich, with or with out the power
comander, actual one dealer used the Powercommander to lean it.
I been told though that the my injectors are the problem, they are
though screaming eagle (Red) injectors, what comes with stage 2 Kit and
have been told original ones are not used by harley any longer.
Anyone have this problem or soultion?
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #477318 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 05:02 |
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Theo wrote:
> HELP,
>
> I have a 1997 Road King Fuel injected, stock heads and displacement.
> Stage 2 Air intake, injectors (red), S and S 502 Cam, power comander,
> and Thunder pipes.
>
> I bought the bike prebuild like this and have had it two dealers
> multiple times and still runs to rich, with or with out the power
> comander, actual one dealer used the Powercommander to lean it.
>
> I been told though that the my injectors are the problem, they are
> though screaming eagle (Red) injectors, what comes with stage 2 Kit and
> have been told original ones are not used by harley any longer.
>
> Anyone have this problem or soultion?
Put a voltmeter on your tps and see where it's adjusted. You can lower the
output voltage and that in turn will lower the injection pulse width. Which
will lean the mixture throughout the rpm range from an idle all the way to
red line. You can do this in conjunction with a power commander and get it
where it needs to be. It should be done by someone with a dyno and a gas
analyzer to get it right.
Roger
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #477321 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 23:52 |
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Roger,
Thanks for the input, several questions though,
Is this a common problem for the Magnetic Marley Ignition, where is the
TPS located, I have replaced my ECM allready.
I did have a Harley Dealer with Dyno, use the power commander to lean
things out, put was still to rich at idle.
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #477322 ] |
Fri, 14 October 2005 01:17 |
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Theo wrote:
> Roger,
>
> Thanks for the input, several questions though,
>
> Is this a common problem for the Magnetic Marley Ignition, where is the
> TPS located, I have replaced my ECM allready.
>
> I did have a Harley Dealer with Dyno, use the power commander to lean
> things out, put was still to rich at idle.
BUY A MANUAL! It will have the answers you are looking for including a
baseline tps voltage setting to compare yours to. Make sure you use a
digital meter and not an analog meter to do the testing. It has to be very
accurate and high impedence to not damage the system.
Roger
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487968 ] |
Fri, 14 October 2005 23:41 |
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Talk with the shop HD shop with dyno that has allready worked on the
bike, they had two different techs calibrate the TPS, still to rich, so
they then used the power commander to lean it out some more, still to
rich at idle, though some improvement not to where it should be from
all the work.
Yep I have a manaul,
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487972 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 02:59 |
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Theo wrote:
> Talk with the shop HD shop with dyno that has allready worked on the
> bike, they had two different techs calibrate the TPS, still to rich, so
> they then used the power commander to lean it out some more, still to
> rich at idle, though some improvement not to where it should be from
> all the work.
>
> Yep I have a manaul,
Sounds to me like you went to the wrong shop.
Roger
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487975 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 03:49 |
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"Theo" <tedwbishop [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1129163372.936384.272460 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> HELP,
>
> I have a 1997 Road King Fuel injected, stock heads and displacement.
> Stage 2 Air intake, injectors (red), S and S 502 Cam, power comander,
> and Thunder pipes.
>
> I bought the bike prebuild like this and have had it two dealers
> multiple times and still runs to rich, with or with out the power
> comander, actual one dealer used the Powercommander to lean it.
>
> I been told though that the my injectors are the problem, they are
> though screaming eagle (Red) injectors, what comes with stage 2 Kit and
> have been told original ones are not used by harley any longer.
>
> Anyone have this problem or soultion?
>
Which Power Commander do you have?
The PC-II version probably does not have enough adjustment for your combination.
The PC-IIIr and PC-III-USB versions provide much more adjustment range.
--
Paul
Flaming Pig Cycle
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487978 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 04:04 |
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Theo wrote:
> Talk with the shop HD shop with dyno that has allready worked on the
> bike, they had two different techs calibrate the TPS, still to rich, so
> they then used the power commander to lean it out some more, still to
> rich at idle, though some improvement not to where it should be from
> all the work.
>
> Yep I have a manaul,
I should add if they've been screwing with the tps adjustment that's
probably the reason it's screwed up. Pretenders, pretendeing they know what
they're doing. I see it a lot.
Roger
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487979 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 04:06 |
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PC II, but it should run with out the Power Comander? The last shop had
in couple of times and said that though they reduced the richness, it
still was way to rich at idle.
Somthing about the jets being 41% increase on stage 2, but stock heads
just do not need that much more gas, even with air intake, pipes, and
502 ss cam.
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487980 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 04:10 |
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I appreciate your input, but they are certified HD mechnics, plus one
is certified on dyno as well. Plus it was not right before bring it
there.
What is your back ground in this?
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487983 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 05:09 |
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"Theo" <tedwbishop [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1129342009.330346.324970 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> PC II, but it should run with out the Power Comander? The last shop had
> in couple of times and said that though they reduced the richness, it
> still was way to rich at idle.
>
> Somthing about the jets being 41% increase on stage 2, but stock heads
> just do not need that much more gas, even with air intake, pipes, and
> 502 ss cam.
>
It should run without the Power Commander but be richer than a normal Stage 2 bike at low speeds due to the
longer overlap of the S&S 502 cams and resulting change in the MAP sensor signal.
I don't see where you said what download was in the ECM.
You'll want to be certain that it has the proper stage 2 download for use with the high flow injectors.
If you're running the stage 2 injectors without the proper stage 2 download it will be very rich indeed.
--
Paul
Flaming Pig Cycle
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487987 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 06:33 |
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"Theo" <tedwbishop [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129342243.472545.233160 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I appreciate your input, but they are certified HD
>mechnics, plus one
> is certified on dyno as well. Plus it was not right before
> bring it
> there.
>
> What is your back ground in this?
>
take the good advice you have been given and find someone
else..
just because they are "certified" .
doesn't mean they are experienced and pro·fi·cient
at what they are attempting to do.
--
"Key"
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #487993 ] |
Sat, 15 October 2005 20:02 |
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bingo, I did replace the ECM during all of this, though it is the
updated version, it did not have the stage two update. So given the
first ECM was part of the problem, the second not being dailed in to
the stage two is contributing to the remaining problem.
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #488024 ] |
Tue, 18 October 2005 01:45 |
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2nd thought,
Was told today by HD service that my Power Commander or the Race Tuner
would take the place of a down load chip. this is based on the chip
down load to the ECM is specific to using exact parts per stage one or
stage two ect... mine has an SS 502 Cam, thus not exact the same as the
stage 2 with a screaming eagle cam.
So I am back to sorting out if the Power Commander II needs more tuning
due to the ver B ECM I recetly put in or to go to race tuner or replace
the Injectors back to Black and remove the Powercommder or retune it.
What a mess, It would help to know how someone else has sloved a
simialiar sitution.
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #488029 ] |
Tue, 18 October 2005 05:06 |
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On 17 Oct 2005 16:45:40 -0700, "Theo" <tedwbishop [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>2nd thought,
>Was told today by HD service that my Power Commander or the Race Tuner
>would take the place of a down load chip. this is based on the chip
>down load to the ECM is specific to using exact parts per stage one or
>stage two ect... mine has an SS 502 Cam, thus not exact the same as the
>stage 2 with a screaming eagle cam.
>
>So I am back to sorting out if the Power Commander II needs more tuning
>due to the ver B ECM I recetly put in or to go to race tuner or replace
>the Injectors back to Black and remove the Powercommder or retune it.
>
>What a mess, It would help to know how someone else has sloved a
>simialiar sitution.
Pretty easy, but you likely won't care much for th' answer... sell it
and get a bike (Evo) where this just isn't an issue. Low milage Evo's
are goin' for a song n' a dance these days too.
Snarl... the "think about it" Asshole(tm)
--
Snarl AH#67 BS#37 SENS
EKIII rides with me...
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #488104 ] |
Fri, 21 October 2005 05:39 |
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Not much of a technical answer, I thought about go to carb system or
just pulling the whole engine and go with larger one from S and S, but
seems like this should not be a unheard of problem nor not have a
soultion for the current setup, atleast it should take only few
hardware changes to balance the current motor.
That my current train of thought, but hell I could just sell it and by
a VRod and have all the Horse Power I could want and new bike.
snarl67 [at] trippin.net wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2005 16:45:40 -0700, "Theo" <tedwbishop [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >2nd thought,
> >Was told today by HD service that my Power Commander or the Race Tuner
> >would take the place of a down load chip. this is based on the chip
> >down load to the ECM is specific to using exact parts per stage one or
> >stage two ect... mine has an SS 502 Cam, thus not exact the same as the
> >stage 2 with a screaming eagle cam.
> >
> >So I am back to sorting out if the Power Commander II needs more tuning
> >due to the ver B ECM I recetly put in or to go to race tuner or replace
> >the Injectors back to Black and remove the Powercommder or retune it.
> >
> >What a mess, It would help to know how someone else has sloved a
> >simialiar sitution.
>
> Pretty easy, but you likely won't care much for th' answer... sell it
> and get a bike (Evo) where this just isn't an issue. Low milage Evo's
> are goin' for a song n' a dance these days too.
>
> Snarl... the "think about it" Asshole(tm)
>
> --
>
> Snarl AH#67 BS#37 SENS
> EKIII rides with me...
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| Re: 97 road king fuel injection problems stage 2, two rich mixture [message #488129 ] |
Sun, 23 October 2005 03:32 |
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"'Key" <Key [at] Ya.Net> wrote:
> take the good advice you have been given and find someone
> else..
> just because they are "certified" .
> doesn't mean they are experienced and pro·fi·cient
> at what they are attempting to do.
I know of a ASE Certified mechanic that can't change the oil/filter in a
car, without screwing it up.
LITERALLY.
All it really proves, is that a person is a good test taker.
Preacher - AH #89
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