| Lubriplate products [message #475598] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 01:56 |
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Krusty,
Have you tried any of the Lubriplate chain lubricants?
LUBRIPLATEŽ Chain & Cable Fluid is a lubricating, penetrating and cleansing
fluid designed for a multitude of applications. This product will not produce
a dry surface; it will maintain a moist film. This unique film, however, will
not pick up dust and dirt, but rather acts as a cleansing agent.
http://www.lubriplate.com/Products/specialty.htm
The reason why I ask is that 90 weight smells so bad.
pierce
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475601 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 04:12 |
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R=2E Pierce Butler wrote:
> LUBRIPLATE=AE Chain & Cable Fluid is a lubricating, penetrating and clean=
sing
> fluid designed for a multitude of applications. This product will not pro=
duce
> a dry surface; it will maintain a moist film. This unique film, however, =
will
> not pick up dust and dirt, but rather acts as a cleansing agent.
Have you tried it?
I've never seen that product, but a penetrating fluid doesn't sound
like a good thing to get onto the O-rings themselves. If you can direct
the application toward the edges of the rollers it might clean and
lubricate the rollers, but the application to the side plates to
prevent rust might cause enough accumulation of whatever solvent is
used and that solvent could soak past the O-rings...
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475608 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 06:59 |
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"krusty kritter" <kriyamanna [at] aol.com> wrote in
news:1129169520.061605.305990 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> R. Pierce Butler wrote:
>
>> LUBRIPLATEŽ Chain & Cable Fluid is a lubricating, penetrating and clean
> sing
>> fluid designed for a multitude of applications. This product will not
>> pro
> duce
>> a dry surface; it will maintain a moist film. This unique film,
>> however,
> will
>> not pick up dust and dirt, but rather acts as a cleansing agent.
>
> Have you tried it?
>
> I've never seen that product, but a penetrating fluid doesn't sound
> like a good thing to get onto the O-rings themselves. If you can direct
> the application toward the edges of the rollers it might clean and
> lubricate the rollers, but the application to the side plates to
> prevent rust might cause enough accumulation of whatever solvent is
> used and that solvent could soak past the O-rings...
>
>
It is too bad one can't grease a chain from the inside out. I find it a
bit disturbing that the lubricant behind the rings cannot be replenished.
It would be nice if one could grease it now and then.
Keep it greased and the chain might last for a much longer time.
As it stands the only thing one is really lubricating is the o-rings or
the x-rings. Maybe the rollers a little bit or do I have that wrong?
Lubriplate makes a "Super Chain Lube" with "micro-graphite". It is made
for high temp applications like oven chains.
Lubriplate has been around for years BTW.
pierce
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475610 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 08:51 |
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R. Pierce Butler wrote:
> It is too bad one can't grease a chain from the inside out. I find it a
> bit disturbing that the lubricant behind the rings cannot be replenished.
> It would be nice if one could grease it now and then.
>
> Keep it greased and the chain might last for a much longer time.
Can you imagine a chain with about 110 tiny Zerk fittings?
>
> As it stands the only thing one is really lubricating is the o-rings or
> the x-rings. Maybe the rollers a little bit or do I have that wrong?
The sealed-in grease just lubricates the hardened steel pins that have
extremely high loads per square inch of surface area. Cumulative wear
of about 0.005 per pin results in a chain that's over half an inch
longer than
it was when new.
Any lube that you can apply to the inside of the link plates right
where there's a tiny gap between roller and plate will help lubricate
the softer steel roller and whatever lube is on the outside of the
roller with help cushion the impact of rollers against sprocket teeth.
>
> Lubriplate makes a "Super Chain Lube" with "micro-graphite". It is made
> for high temp applications like oven chains.
Years ago, Arco Graphite was very popular. Remember that stuff? An oil
that started oil black instead of clear and golden. One guy told me
that he swore by the stuff, that he wouldn't use anything else.
I filled the crankcase of my Dodge van with Arco Graphite just once. I
had mysterious battery charging problems. I replaced the battery every
year. I replaced the alternator once. The batteries kept going dead.
Just before I traded the van in, I looked at the plastic alternator
connector. it was covered with electrically conductive graphite. That
was what was shorting the alternator out.
And lubrication experts make public the fact that graphite helped oil
to lubricate, but if the oil ever got low, graphite became abrasive and
actually caused the engine to wear out faster.
Arco quit making oil with graphite in it...
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475611 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 08:52 |
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R. Pierce Butler wrote:
> It is too bad one can't grease a chain from the inside out. I find it a
> bit disturbing that the lubricant behind the rings cannot be replenished.
> It would be nice if one could grease it now and then.
>
> Keep it greased and the chain might last for a much longer time.
Can you imagine a chain with about 110 tiny Zerk fittings?
>
> As it stands the only thing one is really lubricating is the o-rings or
> the x-rings. Maybe the rollers a little bit or do I have that wrong?
The sealed-in grease just lubricates the hardened steel pins that have
extremely high loads per square inch of surface area. Cumulative wear
of about 0.005 per pin results in a chain that's over half an inch
longer than
it was when new.
Any lube that you can apply to the inside of the link plates right
where there's a tiny gap between roller and plate will help lubricate
the softer steel roller and whatever lube is on the outside of the
roller with help cushion the impact of rollers against sprocket teeth.
>
> Lubriplate makes a "Super Chain Lube" with "micro-graphite". It is made
> for high temp applications like oven chains.
Years ago, Arco Graphite was very popular. Remember that stuff? An oil
that started oil black instead of clear and golden. One guy told me
that he swore by the stuff, that he wouldn't use anything else.
I filled the crankcase of my Dodge van with Arco Graphite just once. I
had mysterious battery charging problems. I replaced the battery every
year. I replaced the alternator once. The batteries kept going dead.
Just before I traded the van in, I looked at the plastic alternator
connector. it was covered with electrically conductive graphite. That
was what was shorting the alternator out.
And lubrication experts make public the fact that graphite helped oil
to lubricate, but if the oil ever got low, graphite became abrasive and
actually caused the engine to wear out faster.
Arco quit making oil with graphite in it...
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475613 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 16:52 |
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"krusty kritter" <kriyamanna [at] aol.com> wrote in
news:1129186324.679412.33070 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> R. Pierce Butler wrote:
>
>> It is too bad one can't grease a chain from the inside out. I find it
>> a bit disturbing that the lubricant behind the rings cannot be
>> replenished. It would be nice if one could grease it now and then.
>>
>> Keep it greased and the chain might last for a much longer time.
>
> Can you imagine a chain with about 110 tiny Zerk fittings?
Sure but the zerks would be internal kind of. There would just be a
depression where one could apply a needle type grease gun. A tiny ball
bearing and a spring is all that you need. The hole would have to be
pretty darn small. With a setup like that it would be years before a new
chain would be needed.
>>
>> As it stands the only thing one is really lubricating is the o-rings or
>> the x-rings. Maybe the rollers a little bit or do I have that wrong?
>
> The sealed-in grease just lubricates the hardened steel pins that have
> extremely high loads per square inch of surface area. Cumulative wear
> of about 0.005 per pin results in a chain that's over half an inch
> longer than
> it was when new.
>
> Any lube that you can apply to the inside of the link plates right
> where there's a tiny gap between roller and plate will help lubricate
> the softer steel roller and whatever lube is on the outside of the
> roller with help cushion the impact of rollers against sprocket teeth.
>>
>> Lubriplate makes a "Super Chain Lube" with "micro-graphite". It is
>> made for high temp applications like oven chains.
>
> Years ago, Arco Graphite was very popular. Remember that stuff? An oil
> that started oil black instead of clear and golden. One guy told me
> that he swore by the stuff, that he wouldn't use anything else.
I actually tried it and it caused my lifters to get noisy. I dumped it
and it took forever for the lifters to get that crap out of there and
quiet down.
>
> I filled the crankcase of my Dodge van with Arco Graphite just once. I
> had mysterious battery charging problems. I replaced the battery every
> year. I replaced the alternator once. The batteries kept going dead.
> Just before I traded the van in, I looked at the plastic alternator
> connector. it was covered with electrically conductive graphite. That
> was what was shorting the alternator out.
>
That would do it.
> And lubrication experts make public the fact that graphite helped oil
> to lubricate, but if the oil ever got low, graphite became abrasive and
> actually caused the engine to wear out faster.
>
> Arco quit making oil with graphite in it...
>
>
Yes they did and that is a good thing.
pierce
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475619 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 17:58 |
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R. Pierce Butler wrote:
> "krusty kritter" <kriyamanna [at] aol.com> wrote in
> news:1129186324.679412.33070 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>R. Pierce Butler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It is too bad one can't grease a chain from the inside out. I find it
>>>a bit disturbing that the lubricant behind the rings cannot be
>>>replenished. It would be nice if one could grease it now and then.
>>>
>>>Keep it greased and the chain might last for a much longer time.
>>
>>Can you imagine a chain with about 110 tiny Zerk fittings?
>
>
> Sure but the zerks would be internal kind of. There would just be a
> depression where one could apply a needle type grease gun. A tiny ball
> bearing and a spring is all that you need. The hole would have to be
> pretty darn small. With a setup like that it would be years before a new
> chain would be needed.
We used a "rule of thumb" that every part/step added in the
manufacturing process mean ~5˘ back in the 80s. We would then add our
600% overhead on top of that. It is probably around 200-300% overhead
and lower cost in other industries but that still adds quite a bit to a
100 link chain.
There's probably an easier way to do it if you put your mind to it. Just
as a for instance, you could use vacumn impregnation would grease/oil a
chain in a matter of seconds.
It could be designed into a standard O-ring chain if you don't require
the O-rings to function like a normal O-ring. Just a notch/groove on
both sides of the pin so the O-ring would deflect over one notch to let
air out and over the other notch to let grease in.
There's a lot of techniques like that out there: Centrifudgal is another
one, heating/quenching in oil too.
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| Re: Lubriplate products [message #475621 ] |
Thu, 13 October 2005 19:34 |
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In article <Xns96EE6487180A0mc2500183316chgoill [at] 10.232.1.1>,
"R. Pierce Butler" <spamsucks [at] google.com> wrote:
> "krusty kritter" <kriyamanna [at] aol.com> wrote in
> news:1129186324.679412.33070 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >
> > R. Pierce Butler wrote:
> >
> >> It is too bad one can't grease a chain from the inside out. I find it
> >> a bit disturbing that the lubricant behind the rings cannot be
> >> replenished. It would be nice if one could grease it now and then.
> >>
> >> Keep it greased and the chain might last for a much longer time.
> >
> > Can you imagine a chain with about 110 tiny Zerk fittings?
>
> Sure but the zerks would be internal kind of. There would just be a
> depression where one could apply a needle type grease gun. A tiny ball
> bearing and a spring is all that you need. The hole would have to be
> pretty darn small. With a setup like that it would be years before a new
> chain would be needed.
>
But how much longer do you want a chain to last? I've put 12k miles on
the chain on my '94 VFR, and adjusted it three times: one adjustment was
me re-doing it after getting it wrong.
AFAIK, the chain on there is the original. If that's the case, this
chain has 23k miles on it, is 11 years old, and shows very little wear.
I'll admit (admit? note? whatever) that I've got a ScottOiler installed.
I've heard from plenty of folks getting 20-30k miles on a chain on the
VFR.
Now then, if you've got a more powerful bike (any modern liter-class
race-replica) or a large V-twin, your chains probably won't last so
long, but that's life.
>
> >>
> >> As it stands the only thing one is really lubricating is the o-rings or
> >> the x-rings. Maybe the rollers a little bit or do I have that wrong?
And (AFAIK), so long as you keep the o-rings in good shape, the grease
stays on the inside and does its job. My understanding is that it's not
grease breakdown that causes most wear in chains, it's loss of grease as
a result of tearing o-rings.
So, if the grease is doing its job, the desire shouldn't be for grease
fittings, but for better lubricants/protectants for o-rings. Which
brings up the question: why don't manufacturers recommend silicone
lubricants for these? If the purpose of the external lubricant is (as
Krusty often says) to prevent surface rust and to keep o-rings supple,
it seems to me that spray-on silicone lubricants would be perfect. The
only disadvantage that I can see is that silicones creep like crazy and
might cause problems if the lube collected in the grease inside the
o-ring.
Comments?
--
Later,
John
johajohn [at] indianahoosiers.edu
'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.
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