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Motorcycles » rec.motorcycles.tech » nighthawk 550 electrical problem
| nighthawk 550 electrical problem [message #454960] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 22:56 |
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krusty kritter Wrote:
> jlpridge wrote:
> -
> I tested the rectifier this morning according to electrex's chart
> and the rectifier passed. Then I checked the stator according to your
> instructions and the three tests of the three yellow wires revealed
> 0.0
> ohms. According to this the stator is bad right?-
>
> If you are on the R X 1 scale and you read 0.0 ohms from any yellow
> lead to any other yellow lead, that definitely suggests that the
> stator
> windings are shorted out. You should get *some* reading through the
> windings, they shouldn't read NO resistance at all.
>
> The specifications for my Yamaha FZR1000's stator is 0.16 to 0.18
> ohms.
> For an FZR600, the specification is 0.31 to 0.37 ohms. Those are very
> small resistances, but at least they show the stator isn't shorted if
> you read some low resistance.
>
> I actually measured the resistance on my GS-1100 once, thinking there
> might be a problem and got 3 ohms on any output lead to any other
> output lead. That might have included test lead resistance, I don't
> remember for sure. All the diodes were 15 ohms. My charging problem
> turned out to be bad electrical connections. That bad connection
> inside
> the headlight shell really tricked me.
>
> Before I would plunk down $275 for another stator unit, I would wait
> to
> see what the repair manual you ordered says about the resistance. Be
> sure you're on the correct setting, R X 1 and zero out the lead
> resistance, if that's possible on your multimeter.
Krusty,
I just checked the resistance on the three yellow leads from
the stator again and this time put the setting on the lowest setting.
Once I did this the resistance measured .5 on all three leads. Maybe it
is a bad connection. But where? The symptoms are strange in that the
bike is erratic. Once it warms up it will run good and allow you to rev
the engine above 2000 rpm. Before it is warmed you cannot exceed 2000
rpms. The funny thing is that after riding it for a few minutes it goes
back to the way it runs when cold. I am stumped. I have checked every
ground and they all seem well connected and clean.
--
jlpridge
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| Re: nighthawk 550 electrical problem [message #454967 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 03:39 |
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In article <jlpridge.1vzjw3 [at] news.motorbikebanter.com>,
jlpridge <jlpridge.1vzjw3 [at] news.motorbikebanter.com> wrote:
> krusty kritter Wrote:
> > jlpridge wrote:
> > -
> > I tested the rectifier this morning according to electrex's chart
> > and the rectifier passed. Then I checked the stator according to your
> > instructions and the three tests of the three yellow wires revealed
> > 0.0
> > ohms. According to this the stator is bad right?-
> >
> > If you are on the R X 1 scale and you read 0.0 ohms from any yellow
> > lead to any other yellow lead, that definitely suggests that the
> > stator
> > windings are shorted out. You should get *some* reading through the
> > windings, they shouldn't read NO resistance at all.
> >
> > The specifications for my Yamaha FZR1000's stator is 0.16 to 0.18
> > ohms.
> > For an FZR600, the specification is 0.31 to 0.37 ohms. Those are very
> > small resistances, but at least they show the stator isn't shorted if
> > you read some low resistance.
> >
> > I actually measured the resistance on my GS-1100 once, thinking there
> > might be a problem and got 3 ohms on any output lead to any other
> > output lead. That might have included test lead resistance, I don't
> > remember for sure. All the diodes were 15 ohms. My charging problem
> > turned out to be bad electrical connections. That bad connection
> > inside
> > the headlight shell really tricked me.
> >
> > Before I would plunk down $275 for another stator unit, I would wait
> > to
> > see what the repair manual you ordered says about the resistance. Be
> > sure you're on the correct setting, R X 1 and zero out the lead
> > resistance, if that's possible on your multimeter.
>
>
> Krusty,
>
> I just checked the resistance on the three yellow leads from
> the stator again and this time put the setting on the lowest setting.
> Once I did this the resistance measured .5 on all three leads. Maybe it
> is a bad connection. But where? The symptoms are strange in that the
> bike is erratic. Once it warms up it will run good and allow you to rev
> the engine above 2000 rpm. Before it is warmed you cannot exceed 2000
> rpms. The funny thing is that after riding it for a few minutes it goes
> back to the way it runs when cold. I am stumped. I have checked every
> ground and they all seem well connected and clean.
Some thoughts, not necessarily relevant, and I'm sure that if I'm
off-base with any of them someone here can correct me:
If all (and I do mean _all_) of your electrical connections are in good
shape, I'd suspect the RR of failing under certain conditions, but not
those under test. You could test this hypothesis by running the
motorcycle until it warms up, then testing the RR.
You could also test it by swapping in a known-good RR. This method is
expensive if you don't have a known-good RR lying around, and is not
recommended for that reason. Mind, it doesn't _have_ to be an RR from
the exact same bike, you just have to know more about your electrical
system if you want to choose a different RR.
Finally, it's possible that your meter is not giving accurate readings
of the diodes in the RR. I've heard from a number of folks who had
diodes (mostly on RRs) test just fine on inexpensive meters, but test
bad on higher-quality ones. These people also solved their problems by
replacing the component in question (which is a good indication that the
inexpensive meter was not giving accurate results). You got friends with
access to a nice meter?
fwiw
--
Later,
John
johajohn [at] indianahoosiers.edu
'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.
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| Re: nighthawk 550 electrical problem [message #454968 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 04:22 |
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jlpridge wrote:
> krusty kritter Wrote:
> > The specifications for my Yamaha FZR1000's stator is 0.16 to 0.18
> > ohms.
> > For an FZR600, the specification is 0.31 to 0.37 ohms. Those are very
> > small resistances, but at least they show the stator isn't shorted if
> > you read some low resistance.
> I just checked the resistance on the three yellow leads from
> the stator again and this time put the setting on the lowest setting.
> Once I did this the resistance measured .5 on all three leads. Maybe it
> is a bad connection. But where?
Well, if you can test the stator resistance by getting on the pins in
the plug that goes to the rectifier regulator unit, then use your
ohmmeter to check for continuity from the DC plug to the wire that
hooks to the battery. Disconnect it from the battery, of course.
0.5 ohms phase to phase sounds more in line with what I expected. Try
the open circuit voltage test, look for around 80 to 120 volts AC
between all of the yellow wires while the engine is running around 5000
RPM.
If you have that much AC voltage on the open circuit test, the stator
is OK, and the problem is the voltage regulating circuit in the
rectifier regulator. Better that it should be the RR that costs around
$125 than it should be the stator that costs $275...
If you have continuity through the stator wires, but you don't have
open circuit voltage that would indicate that the alternator rotor
wasn't turning. I've seen that happen just twice on different
motorcycles. The rotor wasn't not turning when the crankshaft was
turning because the nut holding it on was loose.
> The symptoms are strange in that the
> bike is erratic. Once it warms up it will run good and allow you to rev
> the engine above 2000 rpm. Before it is warmed you cannot exceed 2000
> rpms. The funny thing is that after riding it for a few minutes it goes
> back to the way it runs when cold. >
That could be electrical or dirty carburetors. Or both...
Is the poor running with a fully charged battery, or with an almost
dead battery? If the voltage from the battery is really low, there
might not be enough voltage at the spark plugs to fire a lean mixture
from the carburetors.
Since the early 1980's, the EPA has required the motorcycle
manufacturers to set the idle mixture very lean, and that does not work
well with a weak ignition system that doesn't put out very much voltage
at the spark plug gap.
I looked at the parts fiches for your Nighthawk at www.partsfish.com
(if you go there and register, you can look at parts diagrams for free)
and I can see the ignition control module and the pulser coils. From
what I can tell, it's just an ordinary transistorized ignition module,
not one of Honda's so-called "CDI" ignitions. Honda's CDI ignitions
have a special high voltage coil in the alternator stator that puts out
around 100 volts so the ignition coils get a sudden high voltage shot
of DC electricity when the pulser coils signal that it's time to fire
the plug.
You can tell if an ignition system is just a transistor ignition system
if you put your voltmeter probe across the positive terminal of the
coil with the ignition key turned on. You'll have 12 volts. If it's a
CDI system, you won't have 12 volts. But you'll get 50 to 100 volts on
the positive terminal of the ignition coil when you crank the engine
with the starter.
It's possible that your idle jets are plugged up from storage and the
idle mixture ports controlled by the idle mixture screws may be dirty
aggravating the cold running with low voltage. I have explained about a
bazillion times how to clean out the idle jets and the idle mixture
passages. If you want to review all of the explanations, you can do a
google search for "idle jet" on rec.motorcycle.tech and you'll find it.
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