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Producers » rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata » PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice
| PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448641] |
Sat, 24 September 2005 19:50 |
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I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
They continually compared it to the MX-5 and.... well, here, read it
yourselves:
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2502a.shtml
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448643 ] |
Sat, 24 September 2005 20:17 |
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In article <Xns96DB6E556B073xs11eyahoocom [at] 68.6.19.6>, XS11E <xs11eNO [at] SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
>They continually compared it to the MX-5 and.... well, here, read it
>yourselves:
>
>http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2502a.shtml
Or watch it at:
http://media.putfile.com/MW-Solstice
(choose "widescreen" to see it in the correct aspect ratio)
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448646 ] |
Sat, 24 September 2005 21:55 |
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dm [at] nospam.com (Dave) wrote in:
> In article <Xns96DB6E556B073xs11eyahoocom [at] 68.6.19.6>, XS11E
<xs11eNO [at] SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
>>They continually compared it to the MX-5 and.... well, here, read it
>>yourselves:
>>
>>http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2502a.shtml
>
>
> Or watch it at:
> http://media.putfile.com/MW-Solstice
> (choose "widescreen" to see it in the correct aspect ratio)
Oh, no, no, NO! I cannot tolerate that guy's voice! I suffered through it
once but not again...
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448647 ] |
Sat, 24 September 2005 23:36 |
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The latest issue of Car and Driver did a more extensive comparison,
rating where they liked the Solstice better and where they liked the
MX-5 better. Seemed like they were trying to be pretty impartial.
I am not sure I agreed with the things they felt were important
features, and for me the need to get out of the car to drop the top and
the loss of trunk space when the top is down would be a deciding factor
in rejecting the Solstice. But it does look like one of the best
attempts yet to come up with a car aimed at the type of driver who
enjoys the MX-5.
XS11E wrote:
> I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
> They continually compared it to the MX-5 and.... well, here, read it
> yourselves:
>
> http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2502a.shtml
>
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448649 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 01:04 |
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junktin <junktin [at] telus.net> wrote in:
> I am not sure I agreed with the things they felt were important
> features, and for me the need to get out of the car to drop the top
I have to get out of my Miata to drop the top and fit the tonneau cover.
> and the loss of trunk space when the top is down
Ditto Miata, all the package space behind the seats is gone with the top
down. I don't consider either car as having adequate trunk space with two
people aboard and with the top up and no passenger the space in the Miata is
just barely adequate, I filled every bit of it on my last trip to California!
Bag and shaving kit in what Mazda laughingly calls a trunk, main computer
case in the passenger's foot space, peripherals on the passenger seat, etc.
If I'd had to carry a monitor I don't think I could have taken the car.
> would be a deciding factor in rejecting the Solstice.
For me it's price only. If I could buy a Solstice for what I paid for my
Miata I'd consider it but I don't think there are too many Solstices that
will sell for $4,000 in the next few weeks..... ;-)
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448651 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 05:39 |
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XS11E says,
>For me it's price only. If I could buy a Solstice for what I paid for my
Miata I'd consider it but I don't think there are too many Solstices
that
will sell for $4,000 in the next few weeks..... ;-)
Last month when I was looking for a car I sent emails to all the
Pontiac dealers in Phoenix and none had a Solstice. About 3 weeks later
one dealership sent me an email and said he was about to get one in but
it would cost $26,350.
By then I had purchased my Miata Speed
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448652 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 06:11 |
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I've always hated Pontiacs, but I must say that the Solstice looks a whole
lot better than the 2nd and latest generation Miatas.
Why does the Miata look progressively worse each generation?? The original
Miata was gorgeous! Why mess with a good thing??? Hmm...who at Mazda do we
have to blame for this?
"XS11E" <xs11eNO [at] SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96DB6E556B073xs11eyahoocom [at] 68.6.19.6...
>
> I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
> They continually compared it to the MX-5 and.... well, here, read it
> yourselves:
>
> http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2502a.shtml
>
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448653 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 07:20 |
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In article <Xns96DBA373F46C3xs11eyahoocom [at] 68.6.19.6>,
XS11E <xs11eNO [at] SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> > and the loss of trunk space when the top is down
>
> Ditto Miata, all the package space behind the seats is gone with the top
> down.
That *is* an issue with the NC. I would miss that space--it holds two
zip duffels with all our clothes when the trunk is full of camping gear.
FWIW, I understand that some storage volume remains under the NC's
folded top.
>I don't consider either car as having adequate trunk space with two
> people aboard
I assume you are still talking about the NC. We take our NA on 2-week
camping trips. It's a matter of attitude and commitment: we have
everything we need, but can't take everything we want. No cooler, e.g.
But it would be unthinkable to drive in the mountains without the top
down.
---
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448655 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 14:34 |
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In article <dh5644$9fa$1 [at] mawar.singnet.com.sg>, <nobody [at] home.com> wrote:
>Why does the Miata look progressively worse each generation?? The original
>Miata was gorgeous! Why mess with a good thing??? Hmm...who at Mazda do we
>have to blame for this?
Hey, as an NB owner, I resemble that remark :-)
Patent answer would be that not everyone agrees that its NA>NB>NC.
Looks are in the eyes of the beholder. I personally like the NB the
best (surprise!).
Also, with a new model, there is obviously a strong push to make it
different. Otherwise it wouldn't catch the eye of prospective new
owners. Mazda is both blessed and cursed with the Miata success.
They feel (rightly, IMHO) that they have to keep the same formula
with each successive generation. End result is a great car, but
still relatively underpowered, and too unluxurious for the masses.
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448656 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 14:44 |
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nobody [at] home.com wrote:
> I've always hated Pontiacs, but I must say that the Solstice looks a whole
> lot better than the 2nd and latest generation Miatas.
One cannot forget that the underlying problem with GM is that they
build lousy cars. It's not just about looks. I think it's easy to look
at new cars and say. "well, it must be well built now." What makes
people think that GM has started making quality, dependable
automobiles? One can assume that after nearly 20 years of proven
excellence in design and manufacture, the Miata is a repeatable and
reliable product. I mean look at the Corvette. If people actually try
to drive them they fall apart. Well, some of them do. That defines
the failure of their quality system. Too high of a defect rate, too
many lemons. There are no lemon miatas. If Miata's were as defective
as Vettes we'd have "Drive your Miata to work days."
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448657 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 15:52 |
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<jeff.remson [at] sylvania.com> wrote in message
news:1127652270.790717.180860 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> nobody [at] home.com wrote:
>> I've always hated Pontiacs, but I must say that the Solstice looks a
>> whole
>> lot better than the 2nd and latest generation Miatas.
>
Looks don't matter in sports cars; weight does. Autoweek says Pontiac
weighs 400 lbs. more than the NC, so that's like, what, 600 lbs. more than
my NB? And those clunky, heavy, ugly 19-inch wheels? Gee, I can't WAIT to
take wrestle an extra 120 lbs. of bling-bling through the twisties in Latigo
Canyon on an early Sunday morning! REAL sport-ee! Can you say, Fee-Air-Oh?
Add in that GM 'quality' and I'll give this Pontiac as long a model-run as
the . . AZTEK!!! ARRRGGGHHH!
It is sad. Amerikan car makers are pathetic.
Steve McMahon
Green JRSC '00LS
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448658 ] |
Sun, 25 September 2005 16:32 |
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McMahon wrote:
>>
>
> Looks don't matter in sports cars; weight does. Autoweek says Pontiac
> weighs 400 lbs. more than the NC, so that's like, what, 600 lbs. more than
> my NB? And those clunky, heavy, ugly 19-inch wheels? Gee, I can't WAIT to
> take wrestle an extra 120 lbs. of bling-bling through the twisties in Latigo
> Canyon on an early Sunday morning! REAL sport-ee! Can you say, Fee-Air-Oh?
>
> Add in that GM 'quality' and I'll give this Pontiac as long a model-run as
> the . . AZTEK!!! ARRRGGGHHH!
>
> It is sad. Amerikan car makers are pathetic.
>
> Steve McMahon
> Green JRSC '00LS
>
>
Actually, those heavy and ugly wheels are 18 inches, which is also
ridiculous. Aside from that one small error, I don't think I could
possibly agree with your post any more.
People really blow off the weight issue, "it's only 400 pounds". That is
like adding 2 heavy people, it is not exactly a non-issue. As far as
plunking down $20K on a Pontiac, any Pontiac, that just isn't going to
happen from this American buyer.
Pat
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448666 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 01:01 |
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McMahon wrote:
> <jeff.remson [at] sylvania.com> wrote in message
> news:1127652270.790717.180860 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>nobody [at] home.com wrote:
>>
>>>I've always hated Pontiacs, but I must say that the Solstice looks a
>>>whole
>>>lot better than the 2nd and latest generation Miatas.
>>
>
> Looks don't matter in sports cars; weight does. Autoweek says Pontiac
> weighs 400 lbs. more than the NC, so that's like, what, 600 lbs. more than
> my NB? And those clunky, heavy, ugly 19-inch wheels? Gee, I can't WAIT to
> take wrestle an extra 120 lbs. of bling-bling through the twisties in Latigo
> Canyon on an early Sunday morning! REAL sport-ee! Can you say, Fee-Air-Oh?
>
> Add in that GM 'quality' and I'll give this Pontiac as long a model-run as
> the . . AZTEK!!! ARRRGGGHHH!
>
> It is sad. Amerikan car makers are pathetic.
So I take it you didn't enjoy the test drive in the Solstice?
Dana
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448667 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 02:30 |
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"Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote in:
> McMahon wrote:
>> <jeff.remson [at] sylvania.com> wrote in message
>> news:1127652270.790717.180860 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>nobody [at] home.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've always hated Pontiacs, but I must say that the Solstice looks a
>>>>whole lot better than the 2nd and latest generation Miatas.
>>>
>>
>> Looks don't matter in sports cars; weight does. Autoweek says Pontiac
>> weighs 400 lbs. more than the NC, so that's like, what, 600 lbs. more
>> than my NB? And those clunky, heavy, ugly 19-inch wheels? Gee, I
>> can't WAIT to take wrestle an extra 120 lbs. of bling-bling through the
>> twisties in Latigo Canyon on an early Sunday morning! REAL sport-ee!
>> Can you say, Fee-Air-Oh?
>>
>> Add in that GM 'quality' and I'll give this Pontiac as long a model-run
>> as the . . AZTEK!!! ARRRGGGHHH!
>>
>> It is sad. Amerikan car makers are pathetic.
>
> So I take it you didn't enjoy the test drive in the Solstice?
You're cruel, you know that? <BSEG>
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448668 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 02:49 |
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Dana H. Myers wrote:
> So I take it you didn't enjoy the test drive in the Solstice?
>
> Dana
I am going to test-drive the new MX-5 eventually, but if Mazda had added
another 400 pounds, increased the length of the car and put 18 inch
wheels on it, I probably would not bother.
I do not think that the Solstice can possibly match the MX-5 in the pure
fun factor for sports car enthusiasts, especially those to whom weight,
(especially unsprung weight), and wheelbase length is a primary concern.
Unless those 18" wheels are forged, which I highly doubt, they probably
weigh about 20 pounds each.
The 17 inch wheels that they are putting on the new MX-5 are also too
large, imo, and I wonder what they weigh as well, but I would replace
those immediately with 15" or 16" SSR's if I were to buy a 2006 MX-5.
My other primary concern with a test drive, other than being seen on a
Pontiac sales lot, is that the car will break down during the test
drive. Then I might have to walk back to my miata and drive home. ;-)
Pat
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448669 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 03:40 |
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In article <OAHZe.28742$h02.26268 [at] tornado.texas.rr.com>,
pws <pwshelton [at] austin.rr.com> wrote:
> I do not think that the Solstice can possibly match the MX-5 in the pure
> fun factor for sports car enthusiasts...
You might enjoy this London Times article by Jeremy Clarkson:
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1794313,00 .html
It's fashionable to write off JC's sarcasm as America bashing and
attention-getting hype, but I think he makes some valid points. Remember
he's writing about the U.S. market in general, not the likes of us, and
he seems to understand it better than most Europeans. I've no doubt
everything his detractors say about him is true...but that doesn' t make
him wrong.
Actually, I think he pretty much nailed the Mustang GT. Almost no owner
will use half of such a car's capabilities on the street, so its limits
simply don't matter in the real world. OTOH, if you buy one for how it
makes you feel, you can't lose. JC got that part.
---
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448670 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 07:12 |
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"McMahon" <baadmoon [at] dock.net> wrote in message
news:11jdat1dc1veqd3 [at] corp.supernews.com...
> Looks don't matter in sports cars; weight does. Autoweek says Pontiac
> weighs 400 lbs. more than the NC, so that's like, what, 600 lbs. more than
> my NB? And those clunky, heavy, ugly 19-inch wheels? Gee, I can't WAIT
> to take wrestle an extra 120 lbs. of bling-bling through the twisties in
> Latigo Canyon on an early Sunday morning! REAL sport-ee! Can you say,
> Fee-Air-Oh?
>
> Add in that GM 'quality' and I'll give this Pontiac as long a model-run as
> the . . AZTEK!!! ARRRGGGHHH!
>
> It is sad. Amerikan car makers are pathetic.
I was only comparing the looks of the Solstice and the latest Miata, not
weight/performance. If we're talking about weight, well, the NA weighs less
than both the NB and NC. And looks better to boot.
My point is, the Solstice looks a lot better than the NC. We can complain
all we want about the Solstice being a heavier GM product, but it doesn't
make the NC any nicer looking. I mean, did they have to make the NC so
ugly??? And looks do matter in a sports car. Would you put your money down
on an ugly sports car?
I'm passionate about Miatas. I have 2 NAs myself: a red on black, and a
triple black. And I don't like the way things are going at Mazda. The newer
Miatas are getting heavier and uglier. I was excited when I heard news of
the NB. Took it for a test-drive, and I was disappointed. Didn't like the
looks, and it didn't feel as connected to the road as my NA. When I saw the
NC, I know that I will not buy another Miata. No, I'm not entertaining
thoughts of getting a Solstice. However, I'm seriously considering moving on
to a Lotus Elise.
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #448672 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 09:29 |
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>From 1973 until 1995 I owned two 1960 TR3s. I sold one of them for 10
times what I paid for it.
I currently own 2 BMW motorcycles, a 1970 I purchased in 1971, and a
1973 I purchased in 1980.
I had a Dodge van from 1972 until 2002 when I bought a new Pontiac. In
3 and 1/2 years the Pontiac never had a problem. When my grand daughter
turned 16 last week I sold it to her.
It's easy to overlook the shortcomings in the vehicles you love. My
current Mazdaspeed has 17 inch wheels and those crappy low profile
tires. But I enjoy the way it reminds me of my TR3s. I just hope I
don't have to work on it as often. <G>
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454550 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 14:07 |
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Lanny Chambers <lanny [at] hummingbirds.net> wrote:
>In article <OAHZe.28742$h02.26268 [at] tornado.texas.rr.com>,
> pws <pwshelton [at] austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not think that the Solstice can possibly match the MX-5 in the pure
>> fun factor for sports car enthusiasts...
>
>You might enjoy this London Times article by Jeremy Clarkson:
> http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1794313,00 .html
>
>It's fashionable to write off JC's sarcasm as America bashing and
>attention-getting hype, but I think he makes some valid points. Remember
>he's writing about the U.S. market in general, not the likes of us, and
>he seems to understand it better than most Europeans. I've no doubt
>everything his detractors say about him is true...but that doesn' t make
>him wrong.
>
>Actually, I think he pretty much nailed the Mustang GT. Almost no owner
>will use half of such a car's capabilities on the street,
Would that be its capability of quickly cooking its brakes?
Or its capability to take its own line through the corners with
its live rear axle?
> so its limits
>simply don't matter in the real world. OTOH, if you buy one for how it
>makes you feel, you can't lose. JC got that part.
Almost. He did have an inkling that at home he would quickly discover
he was confusing US 101 with this ugly oversized block of pig iron.
Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm [at] dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454553 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 17:00 |
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> ugly??? And looks do matter in a sports car. Would you put your money down
> on an ugly sports car?
>
If it weighed LESS than 2000 lbs., I wouldn't care if it looked like a
lowered and sectioned . . . gulp . . . AZTEK!
I'd buy it.
Steve McMahon
Green JRSC '00LS
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454554 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 17:10 |
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In article <dh7u0n$btu$1 [at] mawar.singnet.com.sg>, <nobody [at] home.com>
wrote:
> Would you put your money down
> on an ugly sports car?
<snip>
> However, I'm seriously considering moving on
> to a Lotus Elise.
I guess you just answered your own question. In the affirmative.
---
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454555 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 17:31 |
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XS11E wrote:
> I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
> They continually compared it to the MX-5
That seems odd to me; it would seem that the Solstice is more
similar in appearance and performance to a BMW Z4 2.5i (see
the tech data here http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/Z4/25i/techdata.htm ).
There's a lot of passion in this thread considering there isn't one
of us that's ever test-driven a Solstice. It seems that the *idea*
of the Solstice alone is offensive. That's too bad; that might be
why American car-makers haven't had much success in this market segment.
Dana
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454556 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 17:52 |
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Dana H. Myers wrote:
> That seems odd to me; it would seem that the Solstice is more
> similar in appearance and performance to a BMW Z4 2.5i (see
> the tech data here http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/Z4/25i/techdata.htm ).
>
> There's a lot of passion in this thread considering there isn't one
> of us that's ever test-driven a Solstice. It seems that the *idea*
> of the Solstice alone is offensive. That's too bad; that might be
> why American car-makers haven't had much success in this market segment.
>
> Dana
The problem I have is with most American cars. This is from past
personal experience. Every Japanese car I have ever owned has been a
better vehicle as far as reliability and build quality than any American
vehicle that I have owned. That makes it hard to buy a Pontiac, which I
have had especially bad experiences with in the past.
I agree that a test drive is needed to see how nice it is to drive, but
with the car weighing roughly 3000 pounds and sporting 18" wheels that
are way too heavy for a "sports car", it is ludicrous to compare it to
the miata in any real way.
I would bet heavy money on the Pontiac making many more trips to the
shop by 100K miles than the MX-5 as well.
I can not think of a single example of any American car that does not
have a Japanese equivelant that I would want much more, with the
possible exception of the Corvette.
Pat
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454557 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 18:23 |
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pws wrote:
> I would bet heavy money on the Pontiac making many more trips to the
> shop by 100K miles than the MX-5 as well.
I have a 1998 Chevy Monte Carlo, a daily-driver car. It has 127k miles
on it now. At 125k miles, the multi-function turn-signal switch stopped
working reliably; $180 later, the car was whole again. The Monte Carlo
is the same basic platform as a '98 Grand Prix.
My 2002 MX-5 SE has been to the shop for:
- power antenna gets stuck when starting the car
- gas tank filler causes premature shut-off
and it has the infamous clutch "judder", which I opted to live
with until clutch replacement time rather than deal with the
hassle of taking the car to the dealer once or twice to get it
fixed. All of these things before 30k miles.
Dana
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| Mustang (was Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice) [message #454558 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 18:33 |
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Leon van Dommelen wrote:
> Lanny Chambers <lanny [at] hummingbirds.net> wrote:
>>Actually, I think he pretty much nailed the Mustang GT. Almost no owner
>>will use half of such a car's capabilities on the street,
> Or its capability to take its own line through the corners with
> its live rear axle?
The live rear axle is a controversial topic among many Mustang
enthusiasts. Every time Ford floats a trial balloon about upgrading
the suspension to something more modern, the Hardcore Enthusiasts
win out. The Mustang SVO was a lesson Ford hasn't forgotten - there's
only so much progress their customers want.
I also find it a little confusing that some folks like to think
of the Mustang as a sports car. It's certainly not a sports car,
IMHO, but it's clearly the seminal pony car. 40 years of progress
has made it a vastly superior car to what it started out as, but it's
still a Mustang. It just isn't very clever to expect it to be
something else, something I think JC made the mistake of.
On a side note, I lived in the UK for a year, and I love the place.
A few months after moving there, my accent must have softened because
people started mistaking me for a Canadian and where I was from - I'd
say "the West Coast". I just didn't want to have to listen to yet another
screed about "why America sucks". JC's review sounds just like one
of those rants; if an American carried on that way in the UK, he'd
be regarded as yet another Ugly American asshole.
Dana
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454559 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 19:15 |
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:12:10 +0800, <nobody [at] home.com> wrote:
>However, I'm seriously considering moving on
>to a Lotus Elise.
I would like to move on to the :
GINETTA G20 SPORT ROADSTER
____________________________________________________________ ___________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454561 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 21:56 |
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:12:10 +0800, <nobody [at] home.com> wrote:
>"McMahon" <baadmoon [at] dock.net> wrote in message
However, I'm seriously considering moving on
>to a Lotus Elise.
>
....Put your money down and enjoy the (avg) 14 month wait to get your
car. -- Meanwhile, I'll be zoom-zooming through the Texas Hill
Country...
- L
'97 STO, "Chouki"
// Change TEJAS to TX to reply via eMail //
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| Re: Mustang (was Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice) [message #454563 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 22:08 |
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:33:51 -0700, "Dana H. Myers"
<dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>Leon van Dommelen wrote:
>> Lanny Chambers <lanny [at] hummingbirds.net> wrote:
>
>>>Actually, I think he pretty much nailed the Mustang GT. Almost no owner
>>>will use half of such a car's capabilities on the street,
>
>> Or its capability to take its own line through the corners with
>> its live rear axle?
>
>The live rear axle is a controversial topic among many Mustang
>enthusiasts. Every time Ford floats a trial balloon about upgrading
>the suspension to something more modern, the Hardcore Enthusiasts
>win out. The Mustang SVO was a lesson Ford hasn't forgotten - there's
>only so much progress their customers want.
>
>Dana
The live axel wasn't just a customer driven decision, but also a
performance vs cost decision. -- The minimal performance gains for
the large cost delta was deemed a poor exchange.
Considering the performance and features gained in a fully dressed GT
for about $28K, I could easily live without the IRS. (And it gives
room for "growth" when the Shelbys come out next year...)
- L
'97 STO, "Chouki"
// Change TEJAS to TX to reply via eMail //
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| Re: Mustang (was Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice) [message #454564 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 22:44 |
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L Bader wrote:
> The live axel wasn't just a customer driven decision, but also a
> performance vs cost decision. -- The minimal performance gains for
> the large cost delta was deemed a poor exchange.
From what I can tell, most folks that care about Mustang performance
are interested in drag-strip performance. A live axle is just fine
for this, and, as you point out, cheaper. It's customer-driven alright;
if the majority of Mustang drivers wanted and were willing to pay for IRS,
the car would have had it years ago.
> Considering the performance and features gained in a fully dressed GT
> for about $28K, I could easily live without the IRS. (And it gives
> room for "growth" when the Shelbys come out next year...)
Sure.
Dana
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454565 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 23:05 |
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"Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote in:
> XS11E wrote:
>> I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
>> They continually compared it to the MX-5
>
> That seems odd to me; it would seem that the Solstice is more
> similar in appearance and performance to a BMW Z4 2.5i (see
> the tech data here http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/Z4/25i/techdata.htm ).
Actually the Solstace is almost identical in performance to the MX-5 and the
price is about the same. The BMW Z-4 is in a totally different price class
although there are similarities. Personally, I have to agree with grouping
cars by price, the people who buy Z-4s will probably not be looking at the
MX-5 or the Solstice and vice versa.
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454569 ] |
Mon, 26 September 2005 23:56 |
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XS11E wrote:
> "Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote in:
>
>
>>XS11E wrote:
>>
>>>I just watched "Motorweek" on PBS as they reviewed the Pontiac Solstice.
>>>They continually compared it to the MX-5
>>
>>That seems odd to me; it would seem that the Solstice is more
>>similar in appearance and performance to a BMW Z4 2.5i (see
>>the tech data here http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/Z4/25i/techdata.htm ).
>
>
> Actually the Solstace is almost identical in performance to the MX-5 and the
> price is about the same.
Let's take a look at physical dimensions:
Weight:
Solstice: 2860 lbs
Z-4: 2932 lbs
MX-5: 2474 lbs
Length/width/height:
Z-4: 161.1/70.1/51.1 in
Solstice: 157.2/71.3/50.1 in
MX-5: 157.3/67.7/49.0 in
Wheelbase:
Z-4: 98.2 in
Solstice: 95.1 in
MX-5: 91.7 in
HP/torque:
Z-4: 184/175
Solstice: 177/166
MX-5: 170/140
I'd have to say the Solstice, on paper, is at least as much like
the Z-4 as the MX-5, particularly with respect to size/weight
and torque.
> The BMW Z-4 is in a totally different price class
> although there are similarities. Personally, I have to agree with grouping
> cars by price, the people who buy Z-4s will probably not be looking at the
> MX-5 or the Solstice and vice versa.
That is perhaps true, but that just might mean that GM under-priced the
Solstice :-)
Dana
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454572 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 00:38 |
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The Elise? Ugly? Not by a long shot.
"Lanny Chambers" <lanny [at] hummingbirds.net> wrote in message
news:lanny-66C30E.10102026092005 [at] newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <dh7u0n$btu$1 [at] mawar.singnet.com.sg>, <nobody [at] home.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Would you put your money down
>> on an ugly sports car?
>
> <snip>
>
>> However, I'm seriously considering moving on
>> to a Lotus Elise.
>
> I guess you just answered your own question. In the affirmative.
>
> ---
> Lanny Chambers
> '94C, St. Louis
> http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454573 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 00:42 |
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It'd be worth the wait. And I'll still have the Miata to zoom-zoom in.
"L Bader" <lrbader [at] satejas.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aikgj11j98l1lop4re6rsimf8omrskam90 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:12:10 +0800, <nobody [at] home.com> wrote:
>
>>"McMahon" <baadmoon [at] dock.net> wrote in message
>
> However, I'm seriously considering moving on
>>to a Lotus Elise.
>>
>
> ...Put your money down and enjoy the (avg) 14 month wait to get your
> car. -- Meanwhile, I'll be zoom-zooming through the Texas Hill
> Country...
>
> - L
>
> '97 STO, "Chouki"
>
> // Change TEJAS to TX to reply via eMail //
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| Re: Mustang (was Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice) [message #454577 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 03:35 |
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"Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>I also find it a little confusing that some folks like to think
>of the Mustang as a sports car. It's certainly not a sports car,
>IMHO, but it's clearly the seminal pony car. 40 years of progress
>has made it a vastly superior car to what it started out as, but it's
>still a Mustang. It just isn't very clever to expect it to be
>something else, something I think JC made the mistake of.
Not according to the way I read the article. He does not expect
it to be a sports car; the whole point of the article is that
where the rest of the world would make a sportscar, the US makes
a monstrosity like the Mustang. He gives historical reasons why
he thinks that happened.
Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm [at] dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
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| Re: Mustang (was Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice) [message #454580 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 04:25 |
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Leon van Dommelen wrote:
> "Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I also find it a little confusing that some folks like to think
>>of the Mustang as a sports car. It's certainly not a sports car,
>>IMHO, but it's clearly the seminal pony car. 40 years of progress
>>has made it a vastly superior car to what it started out as, but it's
>>still a Mustang. It just isn't very clever to expect it to be
>>something else, something I think JC made the mistake of.
>
>
> Not according to the way I read the article. He does not expect
> it to be a sports car; the whole point of the article is that
> where the rest of the world would make a sportscar, the US makes
> a monstrosity like the Mustang. He gives historical reasons why
> he thinks that happened.
Sure, perhaps I did not make my point clearly enough. JC seems to
abhor the whole pony car formula. He reviewed a pony car, and he
complained about it bitterly. If he doesn't like pony cars, then
what was he doing driving one? Of course he won't like it, it's
something he doesn't like. Sports car or anything else, I just
think he made a mistake to expect it to be anything but a pony
car, something he seems to categorically dislike.
It's like someone that likes big cars driving a Miata and then
complaining how small it is. Pointless, but good for getting
people worked-up I suppose.
Dana
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454581 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 05:32 |
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Dana H. Myers wrote:
>
> I have a 1998 Chevy Monte Carlo, a daily-driver car. It has 127k miles
> on it now. At 125k miles, the multi-function turn-signal switch stopped
> working reliably; $180 later, the car was whole again. The Monte Carlo
> is the same basic platform as a '98 Grand Prix.
>
> My 2002 MX-5 SE has been to the shop for:
>
> - power antenna gets stuck when starting the car
> - gas tank filler causes premature shut-off
>
> and it has the infamous clutch "judder", which I opted to live
> with until clutch replacement time rather than deal with the
> hassle of taking the car to the dealer once or twice to get it
> fixed. All of these things before 30k miles.
>
> Dana
My '96M never needed a repair of any sort except for a couple of
aftermarket parts that went bad and the window that I neglected to care
for during the entire 5 years that I drove it, up until it's demise at
75,000 miles. That, and a little body work, but that wasn't the car
maker's fault. It was by far the most reliable car I have ever owned.
I also feel that the original miata is a more reliable car than the 2nd
generation miata, and will probably prove to be more reliable than the
new one as well.
The Toyota Celica that I drove before that was also very reliable, as is
my parent's Camry at 12 years old and a friend's 1990 high-mileage,
poorly-maintained Sentra that just will not die.
The 1990 Ford Thunderbird SC that I drove for 2 years was in the shop
many times, it broke tranny's like crazy and had many other problems
that all started creeping up well before 100K miles. I have a neighbor
with a fairly new Impala that has seen a lot of shop time as well,
including a major engine repair before 40K miles. The Pontiac that my
father used to drive was one of the biggest lemons he ever owned, with
the exception of a Ford LTD that was by far the worst car I have ever
seen as far as reliability.
Both parents have said that they will never again purchase another
American-made car.
Our experiences have obviously been very different. I did have a Ford
Econoline that was ok, at least.
Pat
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| Re: Mustang (was Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice) [message #454591 ] |
Tue, 27 September 2005 14:08 |
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"Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>Leon van Dommelen wrote:
>> "Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I also find it a little confusing that some folks like to think
>>>of the Mustang as a sports car. It's certainly not a sports car,
>>>IMHO, but it's clearly the seminal pony car. 40 years of progress
>>>has made it a vastly superior car to what it started out as, but it's
>>>still a Mustang. It just isn't very clever to expect it to be
>>>something else, something I think JC made the mistake of.
>>
>>
>> Not according to the way I read the article. He does not expect
>> it to be a sports car; the whole point of the article is that
>> where the rest of the world would make a sportscar, the US makes
>> a monstrosity like the Mustang. He gives historical reasons why
>> he thinks that happened.
>
>Sure, perhaps I did not make my point clearly enough. JC seems to
>abhor the whole pony car formula.
And rightly so, IMHO.
> He reviewed a pony car, and he
>complained about it bitterly.
He did *not*, even talking about taking it home. However, he did
*verify*, as far as I see objectively, that in terms of what non US
standards would consider an enthusiast car, it is a miserable
failure.
> If he doesn't like pony cars, then
>what was he doing driving one? Of course he won't like it, it's
>something he doesn't like. Sports car or anything else, I just
>think he made a mistake to expect it to be anything but a pony
>car, something he seems to categorically dislike.
>
>It's like someone that likes big cars driving a Miata and then
>complaining how small it is.
Not quite. The smallness of the Miata is self-evident. Mazda
publishes the measurements freely. But AFAIK Ford does not have
a formal statement in the Mustang brochures saying "this car
not suitable for sportscar enthusiast due to miserable design."
JC's paper assesses some of what is wrong.
> Pointless, but good for getting
>people worked-up I suppose.
>
>Dana
--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm [at] dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454637 ] |
Thu, 29 September 2005 01:42 |
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nobody [at] home.com wrote:
> The Elise? Ugly? Not by a long shot.
I think that the Elise is too funky looking to call it ugly, but I
wouldn't call it pretty either. I like the looks of this 3-wheeled
concept car much better as far as aesthetics, and it looks like nothing
but pure fun on the track.
It would be interesting to see Peugeot put it into production.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2005-20Cup-Concept.htm
Pat
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454641 ] |
Thu, 29 September 2005 04:32 |
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In article <dTF_e.37524$S26.9042 [at] tornado.texas.rr.com>, pws <pwshelton [at] austin.rr.com> wrote:
>nobody [at] home.com wrote:
>> The Elise? Ugly? Not by a long shot.
>
>I think that the Elise is too funky looking to call it ugly, but I
>wouldn't call it pretty either.
I much prefer the looks of the Mk1. Mk2? Sometimes I think it
ugly. Take a look at a side profile with top up. Other
times, I think it way cool. I near drooled over a titanium one on
display at an event at the Glen a year back. But overall, yes it
fits my defn of "funky" too.
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| Re: PBS reviews Pontiac Solstice [message #454643 ] |
Thu, 29 September 2005 05:30 |
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On 2005-09-29, Dave <dm [at] nospam.com> wrote:
>>I think that the Elise is too funky looking to call it ugly,
>>but I wouldn't call it pretty either.
I think it looks like something from a really bad Sci-Fi movie.
There's just way, way too many creases and scoopes and grilles
and slots and whatnot.
It's all details and no style.
> I much prefer the looks of the Mk1. Mk2? Sometimes I think
> it ugly. Take a look at a side profile with top up. Other
> times, I think it way cool. I near drooled over a titanium
> one on display at an event at the Glen a year back.
I wasn't sold on the NB looks the first few years either.
But I ended up with a titanium/blue Shinsen. I had to hunt for
one without the extra fiberglas stuck onto the rocker panels,
and I had to pay to get a body-colored fuel door to replace the
polished aluminum one, but I'm pretty happy with it now. :)
> But overall, yes it fits my defn of "funky" too.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I own seven-eighths
at of all the artists in
visi.com downtown Burbank!
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