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General » rec.autos.driving » You have the Right to Drive
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797914 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 16:26 |
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On Mar 12, 8:53=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
wrote:
> In article <bb75f4ec-948c-49c2-a972-44b583e3d... [at] h11g2000prf.googlegroups.=
com>,
> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 12, 3:24=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto=
)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <7eudneA0D6nexkranZ2dnUVZ_oimn... [at] comcast.com>,
>
> >> Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >Spare me the grade school fairy tales. Government stopped working like=
> >> >that many years ago.
>
> >> Governement _never_ worked like that. =3DA0It's been backroom deals and=
> >> horse-trading since before Day 1 for the US.
>
> >Thank Gawd for cynical snipers like yourself. =A0Where would we be if
> >not for the interweb watchdogs to cast their barbs against the
> >inevitable tyranny that faces us?
>
> Read a little history, and don't read into my statement what I didn't
> say.
I read enough of your writings to know your position on these issues.
And LOL at the attempt [at] "schooling" me. Funny stuff.
E.P.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797916 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 16:33 |
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On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
wrote:
> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.=
com>,
> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto=
)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegrou=
ps.=3D
> >com>,
> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) =
wrote=3D
> >:
> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
> >> >about safety.
>
> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Specifically, mo=
ney
> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>
> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
> >that claim.
>
> Pearls before, well, you know.
I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
about money. Impossible, in fact.
E.P.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797921 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 17:56 |
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In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002679 [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>On Mar 12, 8:47 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>wrote:
>> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>> Ed Pirrero <gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.=
>> >com>,
>> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote=
>> >:
>> >> >> =A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
>> >> >> not our safety.
>>
>> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
>> >> >about safety.
>>
>> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
>> >> for insurance companies. =A0
>>
>> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>> >that claim.
>>
>> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
>I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
>Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
>about money. Impossible, in fact.
The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/22/2267.asp
"An analysis published last week in the journal of the Florida Public
Health Association argues that, contrary to common assumptions, the use
of red light cameras leads to increases in insurance rates and injury
accidents. Researchers Barbara Langland-Orban, Etienne E. Pracht and
John T. Large closely examined the most often cited studies of red light
camera use and concluded that not all of them were equally reliable."
Study is here:
http://hsc.usf.edu/NR/rdonlyres/C1702850-8716-4C2D-8EEB-15A2 A741061A/0/2008pp001008OrbanetalRedLightPaperMarch72008forma tted.pdf
I haven't read it yet. Just passing it on at this point.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797933 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 20:48 |
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On Mar 13, 9:56=A0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.=
com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegrou=
ps.com>,
> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russo=
tto)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googleg=
roups.=3D
> >> >com>,
> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent =
P) wrote=3D
> >> >:
> >> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
> >> >> >about safety.
>
> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Specifically,=
money
> >> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>
> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
> >> >that claim.
>
> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
> >about money. =A0Impossible, in fact.
>
> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
We already knew that RLCs were about money. Because we have folks
admitting as much on-the-record.
But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
speculation.
E.P.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797939 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 23:29 |
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In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334555 [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>On Mar 13, 9:56 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>wrote:
>> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >On Mar 12, 8:47 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> Ed Pirrero <gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.=
>> >> >com>,
>> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote=
>> >> >:
>> >> >> >> =A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
>> >> >> >> not our safety.
>>
>> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
>> >> >> >about safety.
>>
>> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
>> >> >> for insurance companies. =A0
>>
>> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>> >> >that claim.
>>
>> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>>
>> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>>
>> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
>> >about money. Impossible, in fact.
>>
>> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
>We already knew that RLCs were about money. Because we have folks
>admitting as much on-the-record.
>
>But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
>speculation.
If it were, it is following the trend.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797940 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 23:46 |
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On Mar 13, 3:29=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.=
com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >On Mar 13, 9:56=A0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegrou=
ps.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russott=
o)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googleg=
roups.com>,
> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Ru=
ssotto)
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.goog=
legroups.=3D
> >> >> >com>,
> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Bre=
nt P) wrote=3D
> >> >> >:
> >> >> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,=
> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but direct=
ly
> >> >> >> >about safety.
>
> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Specifical=
ly, money
> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>
> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
> >> >> >that claim.
>
> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
> >> >about money. =A0Impossible, in fact.
>
> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. =A0Because we have folks
> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>
> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
> >speculation.
>
> If it were, it is following the trend.
What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
E.P.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797942 ] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 23:57 |
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In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f8816b [at] e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>On Mar 13, 3:29 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>wrote:
>> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >On Mar 13, 9:56 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >> Ed Pirrero <gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.=
>> >> >> >com>,
>> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote=
>> >> >> >:
>> >> >> >> >> =A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
>> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>>
>> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
>> >> >> >> >about safety.
>>
>> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
>> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =A0
>>
>> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>> >> >> >that claim.
>>
>> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>>
>> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>>
>> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
>> >> >about money. Impossible, in fact.
>>
>> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>>
>> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. Because we have folks
>> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>>
>> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
>> >speculation.
>>
>> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
>What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
*sigh*
Speed cameras
red light cameras
congestion fees
roads being converted to toll roads.
reducing lanes on non-toll roads
abuser fees
removing parking places
confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
Should I go on? Oh never mind, you'll just say I made it all up, like
the adminstrative court system where most those things go.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797947 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 00:26 |
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On Mar 13, 3:57=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f88... [at] e25g2000prg.googlegroups.=
com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >On Mar 13, 3:29=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegrou=
ps.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >On Mar 13, 9:56=A0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googleg=
roups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russ=
otto)
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.goog=
legroups.com>,
> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T.=
Russotto)
> >> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.g=
ooglegroups.=3D
> >> >> >> >com>,
> >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (=
Brent P) wrote=3D
> >> >> >> >:
> >> >> >> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of governme=
nt,
> >> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but dir=
ectly
> >> >> >> >> >about safety.
>
> >> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Specifi=
cally, money
> >> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>
> >> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof f=
or
> >> >> >> >that claim.
>
> >> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> >> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and a=
ny
> >> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> >> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it=
> >> >> >about money. =A0Impossible, in fact.
>
> >> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
> >> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. =A0Because we have folks
> >> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>
> >> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
> >> >speculation.
>
> >> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
> >What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>
> *sigh*
>
> Speed cameras
> red light cameras
> congestion fees
> roads being converted to toll roads.
> reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> abuser fees
> removing parking places
> confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
regulation, how are these things at all related?
Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
E.P.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797950 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 00:47 |
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In article <18b07eaa-f997-4064-a549-9a942489fc38 [at] h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>wrote:
>> In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f88... [at] e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >On Mar 13, 3:29 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >> >On Mar 13, 9:56 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero <gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>> >> >> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.=
>> >> >> >> >com>,
>> >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote=
>> >> >> >> >:
>> >> >> >> >> >> =A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
>> >> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
>> >> >> >> >> >about safety.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
>> >> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =A0
>>
>> >> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>> >> >> >> >that claim.
>>
>> >> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>>
>> >> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>> >> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>>
>> >> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
>> >> >> >about money. Impossible, in fact.
>>
>> >> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>>
>> >> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. Because we have folks
>> >> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>>
>> >> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
>> >> >speculation.
>>
>> >> If it were, it is following the trend.
>>
>> >What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>>
>> *sigh*
>>
>> Speed cameras
>> red light cameras
>> congestion fees
>> roads being converted to toll roads.
>> reducing lanes on non-toll roads
>> abuser fees
>> removing parking places
>> confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
>> car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
>Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
>regulation, how are these things at all related?
Do I really need to spell it out for you? R E V well you complete the
rest of the word. Oh well...
>Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
>with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
>my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
Bogglesome. Can't even have a decent discussion with you.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797953 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 01:47 |
|
Brent P wrote:
> In article <18b07eaa-f997-4064-a549-9a942489fc38 [at] h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>
>>On Mar 13, 3:57 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f88... [at] e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mar 13, 3:29 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mar 13, 9:56 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Mar 12, 8:47 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>>>>Ed Pirrero <gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Mar 12, 2:30=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegroups.=
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>com>,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Mar 7, 5:21=3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote=
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>=A0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>not our safety.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
>>>>>>>>>>>>about safety.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =A0Specifically, money
>>>>>>>>>>>for insurance companies. =A0
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>>>>>>>>>>that claim.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Pearls before, well, you know.
>>>
>>>>>>>>I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>>>>>>>>of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>>>
>>>>>>>>Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
>>>>>>>>about money. Impossible, in fact.
>>>
>>>>>>>The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>>>
>>>>>>We already knew that RLCs were about money. Because we have folks
>>>>>>admitting as much on-the-record.
>>>
>>>>>>But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
>>>>>>speculation.
>>>
>>>>>If it were, it is following the trend.
>>>
>>>>What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>>>
>>>*sigh*
>>>
>>>Speed cameras
>>>red light cameras
>>>congestion fees
>>>roads being converted to toll roads.
>>>reducing lanes on non-toll roads
>>>abuser fees
>>>removing parking places
>>>confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
>>>car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>>
>>Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
>>regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
>
> Do I really need to spell it out for you? R E V well you complete the
> rest of the word. Oh well...
>
>
>>Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
>>with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
>>my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
>
>
> Bogglesome. Can't even have a decent discussion with you.
>
Actually, tell me more about this moving to Montana and living off-grid
thing. Newsletter, subscribe, etc.
You can bet that if I ever become independently wealthy I'm probably
going to do something very similar to the above...
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797960 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 02:01 |
|
In article <a9c38ab6-bce7-4af1-b6f7-225f722a4145 [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
k_flynn [at] lycos.com <k_flynn [at] lycos.com> wrote:
>On Mar 12, 9:59 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>wrote:
>> In article <38426054-acfc-49ae-b396-5392028ce... [at] i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> k_fl... [at] lycos.com <k_fl... [at] lycos.com> wrote:
>> >Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>> >> In article <c579ea32-1c11-4be4-9962-053df7a71... [at] u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> k_fl... [at] lycos.com <k_fl... [at] lycos.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Mar 11, 8:07 pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>> >> >wrote:
>>
>> >> >> It is the whim of the government. That is government excerising its
>> >> >> power because it has it to wield.
>>
>> >> >Absolutely not. It is the result of the legislative process, a
>> >> >deliberative process that is answerable to the electorate.
>>
>> >> Ha ha ha. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
>>
>> >Sorry you feel that way, but I'm correct.
>>
>> You're not.
>
>Sure I am.
[...]
>First, I have been "watching" the legislative process at all levels
>except only marginally at the federal for 34 years. I'm intimately
>familiar with how things get done, so I know what I am talking about
>when I say that there is involvement by many competing constituencies
>and forces - and if you aren't in the game you won't get anything out
>of it except by serendipity.
I'm not disputing that, but what I'm saying is there's no realistic
way I can get in the game.
>The floor and the final votes are as you say often anti-climactic. But
>that's not the process. As you note, there are many opportunities
>along the road - including election cycles themselves - for advocating
>positions and making proposals.
Trying to affect the government by voting is like trying to affect the
weather by releasing butterflies every once in a while.
>As I said all along, democracy is participatory. The fact that things
>are being done and that there are people in there working toward them
>and against them simply belies your position, which is just blindly cynical.
No, I used to be blindly cynical. Then I opened my eyes and became
informed -- and even more cynical.
>> Whereas if I "participate", at best I'll have done nothing and at
>> worst I'll have assisted in the very actions I am complaining about,
>> thus depriving me of a basis for complaint.
>
>Quite an odd way to look at it. In most cases, there compromises along
>the way. If you're not in it, you have no say in it. I don't
>understand why you'd sit it out. You're not playing, yet you say you
>don't want to so you won't lose your right to complain about it.
>That's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I can't play; I can't make the ante. I'm not a political animal. I
don't know the right people. I don't command large amounts of money.
I can't sway large numbers of people to my agenda. Without any of
those things to ante, the only way I can "participate" is as a cog in
someone else's machine. Which means I do more work but still get no
say.
>In the meantime, those who are in it are determining things for you.
>If that's fine with you, cool.
That's beyond my control.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797961 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 02:06 |
|
On Mar 13, 4:47=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article <18b07eaa-f997-4064-a549-9a942489f... [at] h11g2000prf.googlegroups.=
com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >On Mar 13, 3:57=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f88... [at] e25g2000prg.googlegrou=
ps.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >On Mar 13, 3:29=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googleg=
roups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >> >On Mar 13, 9:56=A0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.goog=
legroups.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. R=
ussotto)
> >> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.g=
ooglegroups.com>,
> >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew=
T. Russotto)
> >> >> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000pr=
f.googlegroups.=3D
> >> >> >> >> >com>,
> >> >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.co=
m (Brent P) wrote=3D
> >> >> >> >> >:
> >> >> >> >> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of gover=
nment,
> >> >> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but =
directly
> >> >> >> >> >> >about safety.
>
> >> >> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Spec=
ifically, money
> >> >> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>
> >> >> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proo=
f for
> >> >> >> >> >that claim.
>
> >> >> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> >> >> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby an=
d any
> >> >> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> >> >> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call=
it
> >> >> >> >about money. =A0Impossible, in fact.
>
> >> >> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
> >> >> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. =A0Because we have folk=
s
> >> >> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>
> >> >> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
> >> >> >speculation.
>
> >> >> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
> >> >What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>
> >> *sigh*
>
> >> Speed cameras
> >> red light cameras
> >> congestion fees
> >> roads being converted to toll roads.
> >> reducing lanes on non-toll roads
> >> abuser fees
> >> removing parking places
> >> confusing and conflicting parking restrictions
> >> car siezures on accusation of street racing or something else.
>
> >Other than the fact that they are related to cars, and involve
> >regulation, how are these things at all related?
>
> Do I really need to spell it out for you? =A0R E V well you complete the
> rest of the word. Oh well...
Yes. please do spell it out - how the SPP and the NAU are going to
impose all these controls, implant microchips, and beam propaganda
waves directly into our brains. After all, if we are going to slide
down a slippery slope, lets just go all the way. Why stop at some
arbitrary point? Why not just all go to concentration camps?
Halliburton is building them RIGHT NOW!!!!!
> >Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
> >with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. =A0Aaack -
> >my hat - the foil is ripped! =A0I'm getting the signals now!
>
> Bogglesome. Can't even have a decent discussion with you.
You never have been able to. Because you make the most idiotic
connections between things that are only related by that fact that
they cars in common. Then try to pretend it's some overarching
sinister force that makes these things come about - so overarching
that they span continents and oceans, ideologies and political
systems. Sort of like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Damn
Jews.
If you knew how to have a reasonable, ADULT discussion, without
delving into flights of fantasy and logicalical fallacy, I would
indeed discuss these issues with you.
But you can't. So why bother?
If you wish to use logic and reason, fine. You want to indulge your
paranoid fantasies? Find someone else who might actually believe your
stupid bullshit.
E.P.
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797963 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 02:19 |
|
In article <frchv109g0 [at] news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel wrote:
>Brent P wrote:
>>Ed wrote:
>>>Yes, yes - a vast, secret conspiracy to make Brent move to Montana
>>>with his guns and live off-grid until the Apocalypse arrives. Aaack -
>>>my hat - the foil is ripped! I'm getting the signals now!
>>
>> Bogglesome. Can't even have a decent discussion with you.
>Actually, tell me more about this moving to Montana and living off-grid
>thing. Newsletter, subscribe, etc.
>You can bet that if I ever become independently wealthy I'm probably
>going to do something very similar to the above...
:)
I don't really have much of a clue about it. I've been in 'the city'
most of my life although I have picked up a fair amount from friends who
grew up elsewhere. I don't have any guns although I did fill out a FOID
card app like 5 months ago... it's sitting around here somewhere....
never got around to the picture part.
living off the grid is just a technical problem. I would figure a diesel
generator and run it off of some form of home grown bio-diesel. What
would grow in montana that would have a good oil content... no clue.
As far as running off to colder state to live free... watch and see how
the Lakotah thing works out. If it goes beyond symbolic the feds will
put an end to it I figure.
If I got wealthy I'd probably find a place in the woods in WI or MI not
too far from the great lakes. But there's always this:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/
Somehow I don't think my employer is going to reward my latest invention
that well. :)
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797968 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 02:29 |
|
In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002679 [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Ed Pirrero <gcmschemist [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
>wrote:
>> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegroups.=
>com>,
>> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto=
>)
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googlegrou=
>ps.=3D
>> >com>,
>> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P) =
>wrote=3D
>> >:
>> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
>> >> >> not our safety.
>>
>> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
>> >> >about safety.
>>
>> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Specifically, mo=
>ney
>> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>>
>> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>> >that claim.
>>
>> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
>I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
Google finger must be busted. Didn't take me long to find this gem:
From
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E1DF173EF 93BA35757C0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
If other parents are worried about opposition to the bills, they may
be comforted to know that the powerful insurance industry is backing
graduated licensing laws. Organizations including Allstate Insurance
and the National Association of Independent Insurers are in favor of
it.
''The industry is supportive, because the stats show that a
17-year-old is safer than a 16-year-old,'' said Steve Goldstein,
spokesperson for the Insurance Information Institute, an industry
research group.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797969 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 02:31 |
|
In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f8816b [at] e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Ed Pirrero <gcmschemist [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 13, 3:29=A0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>wrote:
>> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegroups.=
>com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >On Mar 13, 9:56=A0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegrou=
>ps.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
>> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russott=
>o)
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googleg=
>roups.com>,
>> >> >> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Ru=
>ssotto)
>> >> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.goog=
>legroups.=3D
>> >> >> >com>,
>> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Bre=
>nt P) wrote=3D
>> >> >> >:
>> >> >> >> >> =3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,=
>
>> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>>
>> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but direct=
>ly
>> >> >> >> >about safety.
>>
>> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3DA0Specifical=
>ly, money
>> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =3DA0
>>
>> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
>> >> >> >that claim.
>>
>> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>>
>> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
>> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>>
>> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it
>> >> >about money. =A0Impossible, in fact.
>>
>> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>>
>> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. =A0Because we have folks
>> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>>
>> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
>> >speculation.
>>
>> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
>What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
Don't you ever get tired of the argument ad aluminum?
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797976 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 03:19 |
|
On Mar 13, 6:29=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
wrote:
> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googlegroups.=
com>,
> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 12, 8:47=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto=
)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.googlegrou=
ps.=3D
> >com>,
> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3D3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Rus=
sotto=3D
> >)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.googleg=
rou=3D
> >ps.=3D3D
> >> >com>,
> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3D3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Bren=
t P) =3D
> >wrote=3D3D
> >> >:
> >> >> >> =3D3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of government,
> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but directly
> >> >> >about safety.
>
> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3D3DA0Specificall=
y, mo=3D
> >ney
> >> >> for insurance companies. =3D3DA0
>
> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof for
> >> >that claim.
>
> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and any
> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> Google finger must be busted. =A0Didn't take me long to find this gem:
>
> Fromhttp://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=3D9D05E1D F173EF93BA3575=
7...
>
> =A0 If other parents are worried about opposition to the bills, they may
> =A0 be comforted to know that the powerful insurance industry is backing
> =A0 graduated licensing laws. Organizations including Allstate Insurance
> =A0 and the National Association of Independent Insurers are in favor of
> =A0 it.
>
> =A0 ''The industry is supportive, because the stats show that a
> =A0 17-year-old is safer than a 16-year-old,'' said Steve Goldstein,
> =A0 spokesperson for the Insurance Information Institute, an industry
> =A0 research group.
Where does it say money changed hands?
I support it too - does that mean the legislature is bowing to my
will?
Like I said, I didn't anything about the claims YOU actually made -
just some vague connections like non-defined "support".
If it's about money, let's see the money. Show me the money! ;)
E.P.
|
|
|
| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797977 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 03:20 |
|
On Mar 13, 6:31=A0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
wrote:
> In article <41e34646-3c4c-457c-9ad9-39e7a9f88... [at] e25g2000prg.googlegroups.=
com>,
> Ed Pirrero =A0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 13, 3:29=3DA0pm, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >wrote:
> >> In article <60dda0af-cfd9-485d-914b-4fccb1334... [at] d21g2000prf.googlegrou=
ps.=3D
> >com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >On Mar 13, 9:56=3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com (Brent P)
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> In article <cbb95ec2-5dc2-4d77-9a88-7a6fc8002... [at] s12g2000prg.googleg=
rou=3D
> >ps.com>, Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >> >> >On Mar 12, 8:47=3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Ru=
ssott=3D
> >o)
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <5c45a67b-ac56-4e11-8f65-b55cd75b1... [at] s13g2000prd.goog=
leg=3D
> >roups.com>,
> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >On Mar 12, 2:30=3D3DA0pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew =
T. Ru=3D
> >ssotto)
> >> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> >> In article <c2adcdc8-d2b2-4d84-8f18-b04a12886... [at] i12g2000prf.g=
oog=3D
> >legroups.=3D3D
> >> >> >> >com>,
> >> >> >> >> Ed Pirrero =3D3DA0<gcmschem... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >> >On Mar 7, 5:21=3D3D3DA0am, tetraethylleadREMOVET... [at] yahoo.com=
(Bre=3D
> >nt P) wrote=3D3D
> >> >> >> >:
> >> >> >> >> >> =3D3DA0Licensing, like the TSA is about the power of govern=
ment,=3D
>
> >> >> >> >> >> not our safety.
>
> >> >> >> >> >Graduated licensing for teenagers is not about power, but dir=
ect=3D
> >ly
> >> >> >> >> >about safety.
>
> >> >> >> >> Graduated licensing for teenagers is about money. =3D3DA0Speci=
fical=3D
> >ly, money
> >> >> >> >> for insurance companies. =3D3DA0
>
> >> >> >> >I'm sure you'll be able to cite all sorts of independent proof f=
or
> >> >> >> >that claim.
>
> >> >> >> Pearls before, well, you know.
>
> >> >> >I DAGS, and found ZERO connection between the insurance lobby and a=
ny
> >> >> >of the graduated licensing laws I looked at.
>
> >> >> >Without evidence of money changing hands, then it's hard to call it=
> >> >> >about money. =3DA0Impossible, in fact.
>
> >> >> The principle he used apparently holds for RLCs...
>
> >> >We already knew that RLCs were about money. =3DA0Because we have folks=
> >> >admitting as much on-the-record.
>
> >> >But without such a thing for graduated licensing, it's merely
> >> >speculation.
>
> >> If it were, it is following the trend.
>
> >What, the trend toward tin-foil haberdashery?
>
> Don't you ever get tired of the argument ad aluminum?
I do. I wish you folks wouldn't engage in the conspiracy-theory
bullshit. It's tiresome, old and at it's very base, circular
reasoning.
E.P.
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| Re: You have the Right to Drive [message #797984 ] |
Fri, 14 March 2008 04:29 |
|
Ed Pirrero wrote:
> On Mar 13, 6:29 pm, russo... [at] grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
> wrote:
>> From http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E1DF173EF 93BA35757...
>>
>> If other parents are worried about opposition to the bills, they may
>> be comforted to know that the powerful insurance industry is backing
>> graduated licensing laws. Organizations including Allstate Insurance
>> and the National Association of Independent Insurers are in favor of
>> it.
>>
>> ''The industry is supportive, because the stats show that a
>> 17-year-old is safer than a 16-year-old,'' said Steve Goldstein,
>> spokesperson for the Insurance Information Institute, an industry
>> research group.
> Where does it say money changed hands?
How else do lobbies influence law makers?
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