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General » rec.autos.driving » Saw an intelligent bicyclist today
| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796931 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:23 |
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In article <fqidi101e30 [at] news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel wrote:
> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane behind
> some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy in a Buick
> doing 63.9999998.
Speaking of seniors in buicks.. just earlier tonight I was going along at
35 in a 35 and this old woman in buick passes me with a good 10-15mph
differential. But I'm the dangerous speed demon ;)
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796932 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:24 |
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DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
> [...]
> I commute a minimum of 62 miles per day. Most of it is highway. I
> don't exceed the posted limit by more than 5-7mph, and am usually 3-5
> over. I often flash-to-pass. It means "please don't block this lane,
> I intend to overtake you". People, however, interpret it as "Get the
> hell out of my way", which is a mistake on their part. It's not
> uncommon for someone I flash-to-pass to slam on the brakes and come
> down to 20MPH under the limit in response to my polite double flash,
> i.e. flash to pass. This can be problematic when I'm driving a pickup
> truck with rear drum brakes and the car in front of me has 4 wheel
> disks, ABS, and low-profile shoes that give great highway traction. I
> am always at a safe distance when I flash, and yet I've had to
> negotiate out of the highway and onto the shoulder on one occasion
> fairly recently because my truck is simply no match for a new A4 in a
> 65-0MPH deceleration race. So back to the analogy, I said "please let
> me by" and the thug said "What? F*** you! You want a f***ing
> problem? This is MY sidewalk. I ain't excusing sh**!!!
> Unfortunately we were not on a sidewalk and I didn't have a chance to
> exchange views face to face with that particular thug.
>
If you can not stop when they do, you are not following at a safe
distance. What if they were braking hard for a legitimate reason, e.g.
part of a load falling off a truck, deer running into the road, another
slower vehicle cutting them off?
When I drive a one-ton pickup with a loaded trailer, or a 10 ton medium
duty truck, I leave a LOT more following space than I do when driving my
car, and I drive a lot slower in traffic.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796935 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:28 |
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Brent P wrote:
> In article <C1_yj.1367$LK3.539 [at] trndny02>, Stephen Harding wrote:
>
>
>>if there is a long line of traffic to my right lane, I am required
>>to accelerate to 90 mph so the person behind me will not be in an
>>over-taking situation?
>>
>>Will the cop that stops me understand that?
>>
>>I think there is more to the law in these circumstances than you
>>are implying. I'll have to ask my state troop brother-in-law what
>>the legal situation is here in MA.
>
>
> Why is your +2mph pass so damn important anyway?
It's not "important". It's just "my speed". Perhaps 67-72mph on the
Mass Pike. Sometimes 62-65mph in the right lane letting *everyone*
pass by.
> I find it interesting that drivers such as yourself are all about slow is
> safe and calling other drivers impaitent, etc... so it puzzles me as to
> why it's so damn important to go 2mph faster than you were going before
> you caught up to someone in the right lane?
"Slow" is a relative term. I've already presented *lots* of studies
that link higher speed with increased accident rates. It's real enough
to me.
But I drive a mixed agenda. I drive 138 miles each way most weekends
during the summer in my 16 mpg Dodge half ton, V-8, 4WD pickup truck
mostly on I-90, I-195 and Rt 146 (RI/MA). These are all divided
highways. I try to save a little gas, which I can do at under 65 mph,
but I also want to get to where I'm going or home again. Sometimes I
might drive close to 75mph and just accept the 15mpg penalty.
I drive with cruise control and prefer to avoid tapping it on and off.
I don't care if someone passes me (it seems some people do). I don't
attempt to regulate other's speed. They can drive themselves into a
tree if they want (hopefully not another car).
Nothing special at all.
> Just wait for a big enough gap to make your pass, if one never happens,
> what's the big deal for paitent adult driver who believes slower speeds
> are safer and morally superior to faster ones? It's only 2mph.
I'm patient but within reason. I don't want to sit behind a semi doing
45 mph up a hill (flashers engaged) if I can pass him. That doesn't
mean cutting anyone off, but it might mean someone coming up at high
rate of speed may end up having to wait a bit.
The active, legal speed limit is the arbiter of speed to my mind. As
long as I'm doing the speed limit, no one has a right to complain I'm
going too slow. If I'm doing 55 in the left lane, that's another
issue.
SMH
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796936 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:31 |
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Brent P? wrote:
> In article <GeUyj.2380$VS2.1915 [at] trndny05>, Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Brent P wrote:
>>> In article <XBCyj.1641$4D2.203 [at] trndny06>, Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <ec26d7fb-850a-43d7-9088-a5526f3c6ef2 [at] p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If I do that, then find I'm looking at a radar gun, will the patrolman
>>>>>> accept my excuse that I had to speed way up to save the tailgater a
>>>>>> few seconds?
>>>>> When I am affraid of the revenuers I don't pass to go a couple mph
>>>>> faster. You're so anti-speed anyway, why don't you just drive slower and
>>>>> stay in the right lane?
>>>
>>>> First, I don't feel the need to answer to someone's impatience by
>>>> accelerating to higher speed than I want to go just so that person
>>>> astern of me won't be inconvenienced.
>>> Typical Me, first, fuck you behavior.
>> "I wanna go faaaster. Get outta my waaay! I'm commin through!
>> <honk><honk><light_flash><light_flash>"
>>
>> What class of behavior is that?
>
> Is this sort of thing the only line you people have?
>
> What do you get out of delaying people and refusing to keep right except
> to pass? What do you get out of cutting off other drivers?
>
> I wait until I can change lanes and pass without causing problems for
> other people going faster than I. Why is it such a problem for you?
>
Waiting for other people is easy on a rural freeway, where one can
easily see every vehicle and the gaps are big. On an urban freeway, the
faster vehicle may not be in the left lane until the last minute, and
may be screened from view by other vehicles.
>>>> As long as I'm doing the speed limit or beyond, the guy astern will
>>>> just have to wait and all the horn blowing and flashing of lights
>>>> (and wailing and gnashing of teeth) isn't gonna get him by me any
>>>> faster. He can (and that ilk probably will) flip me off as he passes.
>
>>> Me first fuck you behavior on your part. You have to be an asshole, cut
>>> in front and slow someone else down because of your own sign number
>>> morality.
>
>> Don't make stuff up! I didn't cut in front of anyone. I'm
>> passing someone going slower than I was and I'm doing the speed
>> limit or more likely 2-5 mph better. I'm not accelerating to
>> minimize the "inconvenience" of knuckleheads, apparently such as
>> yourself, who feel speed limits don't apply to them.
>
> Oh bullshit. I haven't seen one of your crowd raise any objection to
> sliding over in front of faster drivers. In fact you make it clear that
> you have no concern about them by saying they can just wait. You have
> made it quite clear you would see a faster driver approaching in the left
> lane from the rear and then slide over and begin your plus 2mph pass
> anyway. That's rude. I wait for the driver going faster than me to pass
> before I begin my pass.
>
The plus 2 mph pass is Brent P's words, not anyone else's.
>> You need to stay on your own private roadway. You don't have
>> the understanding to actually deal with driving a public road.
>
> Seriously, you need to lay off this bullshit. I know how to deal with a
> public road far better than you and the other asshats in this country who
> see the highway as their passive-aggressive control freak playground.
>
Projecting here?
> It's bad enough you asshats have fucked up the roads in every other
> nation on the planet and beat montana down, but your kind continues an
> assault on Germany. what is with you control freaks anyway?[...]
>
Got a broader brush? Why not blame them for all the problems in the
world. Sheesh.
The Germans would not tolerate the type of driver that weaves back and
forth through traffic, changing lanes without signaling and passing on
the right. That is the typical behavior of those who go berserk because
someone is only passing the semi-truck at a 10 mph speed differential.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796937 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:32 |
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In article <fqidb5$l9c$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <fqfa0c$hgv$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>> Brent P? wrote:
>>>> In article <fqd2rs$77t$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know where trucks actually go 55mph, but anyway... I just don't
>>>>>> have anyone come out of nowhere up on to my bumper when I move out to
>>>>>> pass. Sometimes it happens when I am cruising over to the right, but
>>>>>> generally those folks are doing over 100mph.
>>>>
>>>>> Well, the large trucks often do not move faster than that due to traffic.
>>>> Only when no one else is IME.
>>
>>> Well, in urban traffic the trucks generally move more slowly than the
>>> cars, due to slow acceleration.
>>
>> More slowly yes, 55mph or slower... when everyone else is. Then again I
>> live in an area where even the semis occasionally use the shoulder as a
>> passing lane.
>>
>>>>> Well, they are ignorant or badly behaved for driving slower than traffic
>>>>> in the middle and/or left lanes, but that does not excuse passing them
>>>>> on the right.
>>>> Excuse? Why does it have to be excused? It's not illegal and no way am I
>>>> going to give some LLB control freak the power to sit in the left lane
>>>> and force everyone else to go his chosen speed.
>>
>>> Illegal and wrong are two different things. Passing on the right is poor
>>> behavior, and if the legislature had some sense in the matter, it would
>>> be a moving violation (as would being a "left lane bandit"). Neither
>>> behavior would be tolerated in a civilized country.
>>
>> If the legislature cared about proper traffic flow it would have the keep
>> right except to pass law even stronger and ENFORCED at least as much as
>> 'speeding'. Instead what you are telling me, is that when I am driving
>> along at my chosen speed in the right most lane, that I should brake and
>> slow down because I catch up to some asshat driving slower in one of the
>> lanes to my left? That is rather assinine and would only be endorced by
>> someone trying to make a usenet score or a complete passing lane blocking
>> control freak asshole. Which one are you?
>>
> On a three lane road, the left lane is still available to pass.
Not around here and not in the example I gave earlier. there is someone
else camping in the left lane. The typical way an expressway clogs in
chicago area is a lot of vehicles stacked up in the left and middle lane
and just a couple in the right lane. I was one of those couple in the
general area when an asshat from the middle lane decided he couldn't have
someone get by.
>> Do you really want to empower someone going much slower than you want to
>> go blocking the whole road up legally by just choosing the left lane?
> No, I leave enough of a gap for people to get through on a two lane
> road, or pass on the left on a three lane. Two wrongs do not make a right.
So the middle lane dufus ducklings an LLB and you refuse to pass the
middle lane dufus and then another middle lane dufus comes a long and
seals the small gap you are telling me you leave for people to cut in
front of you and pass on the right... I do find that hard to believe
since you are against passing on the right and it's not normal to invite
drivers (especially ones a person considers poorly skilled) to cut over
in front of them.
>>>>> Passing on the right again?
>>>> Perfectly legal under IL law. Again why do you want to empower LLBs? Are
>>>> you one?
>>
>>> No, I spend as little time in the left lane as possible. But I will not
>>> pass on the right, even if some jerk is following me at a distance of 5
>>> feet.
>>
>> So when you are cruising along minding your own buisness and come across
>> some asshat LLBing, blocking the left lane, or any lane to your left, you
>> just brake or otherwise slow down so you won't pass him? Holy crap... do
>> you know what sort of chaos you are part of the cause of behind you?
> If people behind me are not following too closely, they will not have a
> problem. I slow done well in advance, so I do not have to brake. It is
> not my fault some moron is blocking traffic.
Nice... you use someone else as your excuse to bottle up traffic... why
were you driving faster than anyone to your left in the first place? to
catch up to some LLB so you could seal up the road?
Anyway it's not the initial braking that causes the chaos, it's the clump
that forms and gets real tight and people jockeying around trying to find
a way through the mess.
>> You're enabling the left lane blocker to create a moving road block.
>> Vehicles clumping up behind you.... even people going no faster than you
>> are getting caught in the clump. (remember, you slowed down not to pass
>> the LLB) No wonder you get flashed in the right lane. You're a total
>> asshole to people behind you. Someone who was happy to stay behind you
>> going the same speed you were going will get pissed off when you find
>> someone in the left lane to match speeds with and block up the road. He's
>> going to see that move as something done on purpose and totally assholish.
> Why, if they do not care about passing on the right, they can go around
> me to the left and pass the offending driver on the right if they so
> desire.
So you set a filter... guess what... someone is going to come up in the
middle lane and decide not to pass by moving right. Maybe the driver's an
idiot who fixates on the tail lamps in front of him... maybe he believes
like you. In either case the hole you left gets plugged. So what few
people could get through now can't.
> I have seen way too many people merge right without looking to
> risk passing on the right, and there is no way I would ever pass a truck
> or bus in their driver's blind spot on the right.
You wouldn't get anywhere around chicago driving like that unless you
decided to move so slowly that you never caught up to ANYONE.
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796939 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:35 |
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Nate Nagel wrote:
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>
>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>
>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>> explode.
>>>>
>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>
>>>
>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>
>>
>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>> or traffic stops.
>>
>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>
> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane behind
> some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy in a Buick
> doing 63.9999998.
>
> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even worse,
> pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far enough behind
> to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>
> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
> seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
> him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane and
> that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If you
> pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly surprised and
> might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he passes. If you
> actively block him, you're just another of the rude and/or clueless
> masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.
>
Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
"micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high beams
when I was passing in that speed differential range.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796941 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:39 |
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In article <fqidmt$n0m$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?
> Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
> as the US?
The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
far at anything close to average interstate speeds.
>>> Should I drive off onto the left-hand shoulder or into the median
>>> to let the person behind by, so he/she can tailgate the slow person in
>>> the left lane?
>> You can start by trying to wake up the asshole in front of you with your
>> car's flash-to-pass feature.
> That usually gets no reaction - they probably think you are doing the
> "cop ahead" signal.
So you don't even try....
>> Considering that you apparently don't find LLBing assholish
> Apparently Brent P comprehends incorrectly.
Let's see, you enable LLB's, you refuse to do anything to wake them up,
and you're willing to match their speed until they exit, you exit or the
heat death of the universe (as nate would say).
>> and aren't
>> willing to pass said LLBs on the right, I can only conclude you are a
>> passive aggressive asshole who wishes to bottle up the road and control
>> everyone else's speed. The LLB and a little twisted logic about the
>> horrors of 'passing on the right' and in your own mind you are able to
>> accomplish the goal of controling the speed of the road and not see
>> yourself as the asshole.
> Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?
You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796942 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:41 |
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Nate Nagel <njnagel [at] roosters.net> wrote in
news:fqidi101e30 [at] news2.newsguy.com:
> Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>
>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>
>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>> explode.
>>>>
>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>
>>>
>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>
>>
>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>> or traffic stops.
>>
>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>
> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane behind
> some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy in a Buick
> doing 63.9999998.
>
> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even worse,
> pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far enough behind
> to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>
> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
> seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
> him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane and
> that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If you
> pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly surprised and
> might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he passes. If you
> actively block him, you're just another of the rude and/or clueless
> masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.
>
> nate
>
what he's saying is that he will "exceed the SL" by a little bit to sloth
pass another vehicle,as that suits him,but he will NOT exceed the SL by a
little MORE to keep from blocking the passing lane for faster traffic.
(IOW,no courtesy)
Instead,he expects you and others to slow and wait on HIM.(MFFY)
and creating a hazardous situation in the process.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796943 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:45 |
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DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 3, 4:18 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin... [at] msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>Would you please provide me a cite where not giving way to someone
>>flashing their headlights at you is illegal. I don't think that is
>>the case in MA.
>
> Brent already gave you an example of signal to pass, although in that
> instance the signal mentioned is an audible signal.
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/261e7e0 02dd1e61c
> for reference. That was in this thread. There are other references
> of states laws requiring drivers to yield to other vehicles that have
> indicated intent to pass. They vary on audible (horn) or visual
> (flash-to-pass). I consider a flash more polite than a horn.
Yes I saw the example after posting. I still am interested in
context.
I also would consider a light flash more polite than a horn.
But I also believe it's just unnecessary. A light flash should
only be necessary when a single car is blocking a passing lane
by not making progress against a vehicle being passed, or if
the vehicle is all by itself in the left lane.
Any other condition such as a line of cars passing and/or a line
of vehicles being passed (where no easy return to right lane is
possible without cutting someone off) should be obvious enough
to a motorist that flashing of lights is pointless.
>>Here in MA, people park themselves in the passing lane. People go
>>quite fast as well. There may never be time to provide someone
>>who is well above the speed limit enough time. Most of the time
>>(on busy highways like the Mass Pike), I'm not the only one blocking
>>the passing lane for the clod. There's a line of cars ahead of me
>>that's he's going to have to flash his way through. All of them
>>actually passing other cars.
>
> I was born and raised in MA. I still work there. You're suggesting
> all the cars in the left lane are passing other cars? IME, especially
> in MA, the left lane is rarely the fastest lane.
Do you drive the Mass Pike? If so, where abouts? Driving I-90 out
in the Berkshires isn't the same as driving the Pike in Worcester
or Framingham. You surely know that.
I agree that at times, the left lane indeed is not moving as fast
as other lanes, but mostly that is not the case.
On the Pike, they're parking themselves in the left lane and moving
as fast as they can appears to be de rigeur.
But then, MA drivers as a group are not exactly noted for good driving
technique.
SMH
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796945 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:47 |
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Tom Sherman wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>> explode.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>> or traffic stops.
>>>
>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>
>>
>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane behind
>> some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy in a
>> Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>
>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
>> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even
>> worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far
>> enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>
>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
>> seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
>> him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane
>> and that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If
>> you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly surprised
>> and might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he passes. If
>> you actively block him, you're just another of the rude and/or
>> clueless masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.
>>
> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high beams
> when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>
I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever had
the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan where even
the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion. (although lane
discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison) So I have to ask,
are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster? This would imply that
you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer - say total length 70
feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or so, which isn't
unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796946 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:48 |
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DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
> On Mar 3, 4:31 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin... [at] msn.com> wrote:
>
>>DanK... [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 3, 11:36 am, frkry... [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>>On Mar 2, 6:26 pm, Nate Nagel <njna... [at] roosters.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>I feel more at risk of having my car dented by my local cyclists than I
>>>>>do by other motorists, and that's saying a lot because the drivers
>>>>>around here suck.
>>
>>>>That statement is proof of the extreme fantasies a motorhead will
>>>>indulge in! It's absolutely ludicrous!
>>
>>>>If you can prove me wrong, do it. Give me data about, say, the volume
>>>>of body shop work caused by bicyclists, versus caused by motorists.
>>
>>>>- Frank Krygowski
>>
>>>That wouldn't be a fair way of measuring. Much of the damage done to
>>>cars by bikes is of the hit & run variety. It could be they kicked
>>>the car and split, they just refused to exchange info, or a million
>>>other circumstances. When your car is damaged by another car there is
>>>usually insurance involved, accident reports filed, etc. If you hit
>>>my *truck* (just playing with you Frank) with your car and damage a
>>>panel, there's a fairly good chance I'll use some or all of the
>>>insurance money to repair the truck. If a bicycle hits my truck, the
>>>only way for it to be repaired on the offender's dime is if they stop
>>>and give me their info willingly, if they're so injured they need
>>>medical attention, or an officer happens to witness it and apprehend
>>>the cyclist. Two of those three circumstances seem quite unlikely.
>>>The exception, the cyclist being so injured they need medical
>>>attention, is likely to somehow cause me a bunch of headache even if
>>>they were at fault.
>>
>>So do you believe this situation is so pervasive, that bicycle
>>damage to cars actually does exceed that from other motor vehicles?
>
>
> No, I believe the "data" frank requested to "prove" him wrong was
> blatantly biased, unfair, and not a quality example. I believe that's
> what I typed. Where did you see the suggestion that I believe
> bicycle to car damage exceeds car to car damage?
The apparent implication that all the hit and run bicyclist damage
might be greater than damage to cars than by other cars.
The hit-and-run bicycle scenario seemed a stretch.
SMH
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796948 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:50 |
|
Brent P? wrote:
> In article <fqidmt$n0m$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>>> Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?
>
>> Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
>> as the US?
>
> The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
> far at anything close to average interstate speeds.
>
Somehow, I almost always find a way to pass on the left. On a three lane
road, there is almost always a way to get around a slow vehicle in the
middle lane.
>>>> Should I drive off onto the left-hand shoulder or into the median
>>>> to let the person behind by, so he/she can tailgate the slow person in
>>>> the left lane?
>
>>> You can start by trying to wake up the asshole in front of you with your
>>> car's flash-to-pass feature.
>
>> That usually gets no reaction - they probably think you are doing the
>> "cop ahead" signal.
>
> So you don't even try....
>
Usually someone else will come along and give them the message. I am not
in such a hurry that a few seconds will make any real difference.
>>> Considering that you apparently don't find LLBing assholish
>
>> Apparently Brent P comprehends incorrectly.
>
> Let's see, you enable LLB's, you refuse to do anything to wake them up,
> and you're willing to match their speed until they exit, you exit or the
> heat death of the universe (as nate would say).
>
>>> and aren't
>>> willing to pass said LLBs on the right, I can only conclude you are a
>>> passive aggressive asshole who wishes to bottle up the road and control
>>> everyone else's speed. The LLB and a little twisted logic about the
>>> horrors of 'passing on the right' and in your own mind you are able to
>>> accomplish the goal of controling the speed of the road and not see
>>> yourself as the asshole.
>
>> Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?
>
> You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
> asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
> out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
> you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
> or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
> merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.
>
How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796949 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:53 |
|
DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
> Didn't you say you lived in MA? Noone but "Mr Speeders" (are we in
> kindergarten?) are parked in the passing lane? Please. To speed
> excessively in MA during times of traffic you need to bob & weave.
> There is consistently 65-70MPH traffic parked in the left lane.
I think I'd put it higher than that.
My MA state trooper bother-in-law has told me you need to go
75mph or better to get pulled over on the Pike.
I think everyone pretty much knows that so the de facto speed
limit on the Mass Pike is 75mph.
SMH
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796950 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:53 |
|
Stephen Harding wrote:
> DanKMTB [at] gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mar 3, 4:31 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin... [at] msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> DanK... [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 3, 11:36 am, frkry... [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Mar 2, 6:26 pm, Nate Nagel <njna... [at] roosters.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I feel more at risk of having my car dented by my local cyclists
>>>>>> than I
>>>>>> do by other motorists, and that's saying a lot because the drivers
>>>>>> around here suck.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> That statement is proof of the extreme fantasies a motorhead will
>>>>> indulge in! It's absolutely ludicrous!
>>>
>>>
>>>>> If you can prove me wrong, do it. Give me data about, say, the volume
>>>>> of body shop work caused by bicyclists, versus caused by motorists.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>>
>>>> That wouldn't be a fair way of measuring. Much of the damage done to
>>>> cars by bikes is of the hit & run variety. It could be they kicked
>>>> the car and split, they just refused to exchange info, or a million
>>>> other circumstances. When your car is damaged by another car there is
>>>> usually insurance involved, accident reports filed, etc. If you hit
>>>> my *truck* (just playing with you Frank) with your car and damage a
>>>> panel, there's a fairly good chance I'll use some or all of the
>>>> insurance money to repair the truck. If a bicycle hits my truck, the
>>>> only way for it to be repaired on the offender's dime is if they stop
>>>> and give me their info willingly, if they're so injured they need
>>>> medical attention, or an officer happens to witness it and apprehend
>>>> the cyclist. Two of those three circumstances seem quite unlikely.
>>>> The exception, the cyclist being so injured they need medical
>>>> attention, is likely to somehow cause me a bunch of headache even if
>>>> they were at fault.
>>>
>>>
>>> So do you believe this situation is so pervasive, that bicycle
>>> damage to cars actually does exceed that from other motor vehicles?
>>
>>
>>
>> No, I believe the "data" frank requested to "prove" him wrong was
>> blatantly biased, unfair, and not a quality example. I believe that's
>> what I typed. Where did you see the suggestion that I believe
>> bicycle to car damage exceeds car to car damage?
>
>
> The apparent implication that all the hit and run bicyclist damage
> might be greater than damage to cars than by other cars.
>
> The hit-and-run bicycle scenario seemed a stretch.
No, the implication was that I feel that I am more *likely* to be hit by
a bicyclist than another car. I said nothing about the level of damage.
I don't worry about what happens *when* I'm hit; I worry about
avoiding being hit altogether. Yes, I've bowed out of the SUV size
wars; most people would consider my car tiny and the Ugly Truck only
leaves the driveway when I've got something to haul.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
|
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796952 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:55 |
|
In article <B83zj.2616$oy2.471 [at] trndny07>, Stephen Harding wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>> In article <9zZyj.2391$VS2.566 [at] trndny05>, Stephen Harding wrote:>
>>
>>>No one is being cut off.
>>
>> So what made that car appear behind you? Did it decloak? Either you
>> didn't look behind you before changing lanes which means you don't care or
>> you did but don't care.
>>
>> I look, I see someone gaining on me at a rate
>> where I won't complete the pass before he reaches me, I don't change
>> lanes until he's by me. Simple. It is quite obvious you don't do that.
>
> I do not cut anyone off. I most certainly will pull out to pass
> when I do not know when my pass might be completed.
That's MFFY. Rather assholish.
> How could I know, if there is a line of vehicles to be passed, and
> perhaps a line of cars in the passing lane passing in their own
> right, how long a pass will take?
So not only are you an assholish driver, you're an unaware assholish
driver. I look ahead, way ahead, when I drive. I know what I have to pass
before I move out into the left lane.
> I've driven through IL on I-90/I-80 and I know for a fact that the
> driving conditions can be the same as here in MA on I-90 (Mass Pike).
> I don't believe for a minute that you calculate how long your pass
> will take and will sit in lane until a sufficient gap opens in traffic
> astern for you to pass in such a way that you cause no "inconvenience"
> to others who may be traveling faster than you astern.
I do it every time I'm out on the expressways and drive faster than at
least one person out there. It's not difficult. Sure, occasionally
someone who is pacing me sees me flick on my turn signal and then decides
to speed up, they can sit on it, I complete my lane change and start
passing... once they've failed at blocking me they slow back down and
receed in my mirrors.
>>>No one (other than the Mr Speedies) are parked in the passing lane.
>> Your +2mph is ~= 'parked in the passing lane'.
> Says you.
Says most reasonable people. 2mph isn't even worth passing for.
>>>Why can't you understand the "public" in public highway?
>> It is you who cannot understand that the road doesn't belong to regulate
>> its speed.
> I'm going "my speed" which is the speed limit or slightly above.
> Apparently "regulation" of other's speed is merely not getting
> out of the way of speeders fast enough.
How MFFY of you. You're speed is morally superior... the hell with anyone
else.
>>>Practice your driving on an old abandoned runway if you can't
>>>handle sharing a public roadway with the public.
>> You people are just a one trick pony... anyone who disagrees with you is
>> a boy racer using the roads as a race track.... nonsense.
> I haven't seen a whole lot of diversity in thinking from your
> camp.
Name calling isn't 'thinking'.
>>>I'm not talking "cutting people off" to regulate their speed. I'm
>>>not a cop and have no interest in acting like one. If you wish
>>>to go 90 mph feel free. Just don't expect me to accelerate up
>>>to 90 so you won't have to back off on the throttle.
>> It seems that you and others do want to act as the road controller. Keep
>> right except to pass, make your pass and get over with. You're chastising
>> anyone who drives faster than you, but a 2mph speed differential is so
>> bloody important to you? 2mph... I don't go around blocking a passing
>> lane for a good long time to go 2mph faster than the guy I would be
>> 'passing'. I just stay to the right. It's 2mph out of at least 55mph...
>> who the f cares? 2mph is important when you're on a bicycle and max out
>> around 30mph, but on a limited acccess highway traveling between 55 and
>> 85mph it's nothing.
> I keep to the right except to pass.
With all sorts of techincal reasons to justify your blocking. You're just
an LLB who's found a way to excuse it in his own mine.
> If the speed limit is 65mph and I'm passing someone at 67mph you'll
> just have to wait a bit for me to complete my pass. You shouldn't
> be doing 80 or 90 anyways.
Here you go again with your MFFY and self proclaimed moral superiority.
If you're doing 67mph to pass someone doing 65mph, you might as well just
stay right and do 65mph.
> I don't care if you want to do 180 after you pass me. I just don't
> want to be doing 90 to get out of your way. You'll have to wait.
> Nothing personal.
You're an asshole to other people on the road universally, so what?
You refuse to go 2mph slower for at most a handful of seconds but demand
other drivers go 20mph slower until you've passed every vehicle to the
horizon.... that's assholish.
>>>Montana can keep it's open speed limit if it wants I really don't care.
>> It's gone.
> Last I heard it was unlimited during the day, but "only" 80 at
> night.
You're data is wrong and wildly out of date.
> The speed limit is irrelevant in this case. In the absence of a limit,
> drivers should go as fast as they feel comfortable with. Again, persons
> coming up from behind at a faster speed will have to wait. The driver
> isn't required to accommodate faster movers.
You have it ass-backwards. Go to Germany and try your shit.
> Will you accelerate to 180mph if someone in a Lamborghini comes up
> astern of you in Montana (of old)? Or I presume you'll stay put
> because you know the guy is haulin' until he passes. What if there
> is a line of cars passing a "convoy" of trucks? Do you need to sit
> tight until all the cars ahead of you, along with the Lamborghini,
> have passed by before starting your pass?
I wait until the lambo is past me and fall in behind it... What's so
freakin' hard about that for you? I have *NEVER* encountered more than a
line of three vehicles going dramatically faster than me that I had to
wait for. I've waited for *dozens* that were going slight faster than me
in crowded traffic on numerous occasions. It's tough shit for me that I
need to change lanes, it doesn't give me a right to be an asshole to some
third party.
>>>Germany can keep unlimited speed on its autobahn if it wants. Hell
>>>it can even unregulate speed through downdowns or residential areas
>>>if it wants. I don't care!
>> The control freaks in the european union are coming up with new angles to
>> get rid of it.
> Why?
Why? Why do control freaks do anything? Same reason you demand other
drivers slow to your speed, they believe they are morally superior and
should tell other people what to do.
>>>I only care about not being bullied into driving in a manner I don't
>>>want to drive. I do the speed limit (more or less). I keep right
>>>except to pass. I don't cut people off.
>>
>> If you are getting people 'appearing' behind you all pissed off, you
>> clearly are cutting them off or otherwise being rude.
> Not if the people themselves are rude, self interested types. *Anyone*
> on the road that slows them or prevents their travel pisses them off.
You seem to run across them so often it must be your behavior pissing
people off.
>>>But I'm not going to change my driving speed, while adequately passing
>>>someone, because somebody feels a public road is his private runway.
>> Your control freakish moral superiority complex is showing again.
>> Again, you express that you don't care one bit about the traffic gaining
>> on you. This makes it clear to me that you just change lanes to make your
>> +2mph pass without concern to them needing to brake for you. A MFFY
>> move. Then again, considering how they 'appear' suddenly there is the
>> possibility you don't use your mirrors well. For someone to 'appear' as
>> you describe even on an urban/suburban interstate they have to be doing
>> well over 100mph. That just ain't that common.
> I have quite good situation awareness driving the interstates. I've
> been doing it a long time.
You just stated you don't even know what you have to pass before you pull
out to pass. If you call that good I'd hate to hear what bad is.
>>>However, alcohol effects on driver reflexes is quite well documented
>>>and at speeds some feel the right to engage in, I'd think they would
>>>need all the reflex capabilities they could muster.
>> More bicycle helmet zealot equal type stuff.
>
> You're stuck in a bike helmet zealot rut. I've already mentioned I
> don't wear a bike helmet and am against mandatory bike helmet laws.
You don't get it. You're quoting the gospel of their automotive equal.
It's just as much bullshit, if not more.
|
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796953 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:56 |
|
Nate Nagel wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
>>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>>> explode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>>> or traffic stops.
>>>>
>>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>>
>>>
>>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane
>>> behind some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy
>>> in a Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>>
>>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
>>> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even
>>> worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far
>>> enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>>
>>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
>>> seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
>>> him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane
>>> and that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If
>>> you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly
>>> surprised and might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he
>>> passes. If you actively block him, you're just another of the rude
>>> and/or clueless masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.
>>>
>> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
>> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high
>> beams when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>>
>
> I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
> said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever had
> the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan where even
> the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion. (although lane
> discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison) So I have to ask,
> are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster? This would imply that
> you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer - say total length 70
> feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or so, which isn't
> unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
>
I had this happen plenty of times in the Chicago area, and also in
Wisconsin (usually by people with Illinois plates). These are the
vehicles that are cutting back and forth from lane to lane, passing on
the left, center and right, and often without signaling lane changes.
There are also the people that speed up to try to prevent others from
changing lanes as soon as they see a turn signal go on. Often, the two
are the same.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796954 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:57 |
|
Brent P wrote:
> Believe it or not, much of the time I am in the bottom 50% speed wise.
Color me surprised Brent!
> Even when I drive the fastest I am willing to go, there are drivers going
> faster. I don't drive faster than the ISP officers drive, but a good
> number of people don't so restrict themselves.
I don't doubt that. Here in MA I get a kick out of watching people
passing Staties. *Some* don't seem intimidated at all.
On the other hand, there are people suddenly going from 75 mph to
50 (well under the 65mph limit) when a Statie appears.
Go figure.
SMH
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796955 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 04:58 |
|
Tom Sherman wrote:
> How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?
That's just a dumb comment. If you've just merged into traffic at your
chosen travel speed, but there's someone in the middle or leftmost lane
driving slowly (as is common here, and I assume elsewhere as well) how
do you *not* pass him on the right? Do you brake until you're going
slower than him, then change two lanes to the left and then pass? Or if
he's in the leftmost lane, sit behind him and wait for him to move right
for you?
I do have to admit, if I come up on a middle lane camper in light
traffic, sometimes rather than pass him on the right I will actually
change two lanes to the left to pass, then change two lanes back to the
right, in some vain hope that they'll get it when they see me change
back in front of them. I don't think it ever sinks in though. In heavy
traffic I won't bother if I've got a clear run in the right lane, not
worth the risk of someone else changing lanes into me from the opposite
direction.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
|
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796957 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:01 |
|
In article <fqievo$r9p$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P? wrote:
>> In article <4e8d2c3f-d188-42d5-904c-448f9d749865 [at] 34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Mar 3, 10:04 am, "DanK... [at] gmail.com" <DanK... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mar 3, 9:50 am, Stephen Harding <smhardin... [at] msn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "I wanna go faaaster. Get outta my waaay! I'm commin through!
>>>>> <honk><honk><light_flash><light_flash>"
>>>> Flash-to-pass is NOT "get outta my way", it's "excuse me,
>>>> please move to the right". Have you ever been walking down a sidewalk
>>>> and had a group of people blocking the whole thing, engrossed in their
>>>> conversation or whathaveyou? In that situation, what would you do? I
>>>> would say "excuse me", as I have in the past. That's the exact same
>>>> thing as flash-to-pass.
>>> The situation we've all experienced and are complaining about is not a
>>> simple flash-to-pass. Instead, it's this:
>>>
>>> Approach from behind with at least 10 mph speed differential;
>>>
>>> Maintain that approach speed until within about ten feet of the car in
>>> front;
>>>
>>> Begin flashing lights repeatedly, even though the car in front is
>>> passing a truck at or slightly above the speed limit, or even though
>>> the car in front is prevented from completing passing by yet another
>>> car.
>>
>> I get it now.... Frank and the rest of them don't even notice there is
>> someone behind them until that guy has been blocked for minutes and has a
>> reached a significant frustration level and/or has escalated his attempts
>> to wake them from their mindless stupor.
>>
>> If you actually saw them 'maintain speed until 10 feet off your bumper',
>> that's behavior consistant with someone sliding in front of them going
>> much slower. There is an expectation when you move in front of them, to
>> accelerate. That's why he didn't brake, he was expecting you to
>> accelerate. But you didn't. MFFY.
>>
> No, some people do the same maneuver when one is maintaining a steady
> speed in the right lane. They are attempting to scare people by closing
> so quickly because they are bullies.
If you haven't moved into their path it's because they aren't
particularly aware of their surroundings much of the time. Some are just
assholes. It has nothing to do with being a bully... bullies back away
when they encounter someone who will stand up to them.
|
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796959 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:03 |
|
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P? wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> I want speed limits set properly and lane discipline to be the
>> priority. Nothing 'unregulated' about it. The condition we have today
>> is chaos compared to what I propose. What I propose is orderly and
>> safe limited access highways unlike today's cluster f*ck of drivers
>> scatttered willy-nilly all over the road in different lanes.[...]
>
>
> The USians need to learn from the Germans and ticket the "left lane
> bandits" and right hand passers.
My German friend tells me it costs about $5000 to get a license
in Germany. They're more serious about "driver education" than
we are in the US.
There would be a revolt in the US if it cost that much to get a
driver's license!
SMH
|
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796960 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:04 |
|
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but
>>>>>>> find it
>>>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>>>> explode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>>>> or traffic stops.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane
>>>> behind some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy
>>>> in a Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>>>
>>>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
>>>> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even
>>>> worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far
>>>> enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in
>>>> the seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively
>>>> hold him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing
>>>> lane and that's the behavior he's come to expect from other
>>>> motorists. If you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be
>>>> pleasantly surprised and might even acknowledge your courtesy with a
>>>> wave as he passes. If you actively block him, you're just another
>>>> of the rude and/or clueless masses that make everyday driving
>>>> unpleasant.
>>>>
>>> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
>>> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high
>>> beams when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>>>
>>
>> I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
>> said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever had
>> the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan where
>> even the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion. (although lane
>> discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison) So I have to
>> ask, are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster? This would imply
>> that you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer - say total
>> length 70 feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or so, which isn't
>> unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
>>
> I had this happen plenty of times in the Chicago area, and also in
> Wisconsin (usually by people with Illinois plates). These are the
> vehicles that are cutting back and forth from lane to lane, passing on
> the left, center and right, and often without signaling lane changes.
I've only driven in Chicago briefly, but again, never had that happen to me.
Is there anywhere in the CONUS where drivers DO regularly signal lane
changes? It seems to be an optional courtesy to most people, and most
people don't seem to be courteous.
> There are also the people that speed up to try to prevent others from
> changing lanes as soon as they see a turn signal go on. Often, the two
> are the same.
That's when you suddenly have an attack of decreased peripheral vision,
and can't see them anymore. NB: do NOT do this unless you are
absolutely sure that you have an accurate mental picture of the road
around you, the speeds and positions of all vehicles in the immediate
vicinity, etc. etc. etc. In fact, it's probably a bad idea to do this
at all.
Also, if you set yourself up so that you have a clear, safe, legal space
to change lanes into, simply put on your signal and go. Don't hesitate
and give other drivers the opportunity to cut you off. It's sad that
things have come to this, but people are basically bastard coated
bastards with bastard filling. (obscure?)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796961 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:06 |
|
Stephen Harding wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Brent P? wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> I want speed limits set properly and lane discipline to be the
>>> priority. Nothing 'unregulated' about it. The condition we have today
>>> is chaos compared to what I propose. What I propose is orderly and
>>> safe limited access highways unlike today's cluster f*ck of drivers
>>> scatttered willy-nilly all over the road in different lanes.[...]
>>
>>
>>
>> The USians need to learn from the Germans and ticket the "left lane
>> bandits" and right hand passers.
>
>
> My German friend tells me it costs about $5000 to get a license
> in Germany. They're more serious about "driver education" than
> we are in the US.
>
> There would be a revolt in the US if it cost that much to get a
> driver's license!
>
>
> SMH
I'd gladly pay if it meant sharing the road with drivers that behaved
like Germans.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796962 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:07 |
|
In article <Ul3zj.3526$W%2.1222 [at] trndny04>, Stephen Harding wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <C1_yj.1367$LK3.539 [at] trndny02>, Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>
>>>if there is a long line of traffic to my right lane, I am required
>>>to accelerate to 90 mph so the person behind me will not be in an
>>>over-taking situation?
>>>
>>>Will the cop that stops me understand that?
>>>
>>>I think there is more to the law in these circumstances than you
>>>are implying. I'll have to ask my state troop brother-in-law what
>>>the legal situation is here in MA.
>>
>>
>> Why is your +2mph pass so damn important anyway?
>
> It's not "important". It's just "my speed". Perhaps 67-72mph on the
> Mass Pike. Sometimes 62-65mph in the right lane letting *everyone*
> pass by.
You make it so damn important that you just pull out when you can clearly
see other drivers closing rapidly.... What's so important about 67 vs.
65? I'm one the you and others are calling an impaitent boy racer and I
don't give two shits about a 2 mph difference.
>> I find it interesting that drivers such as yourself are all about slow is
>> safe and calling other drivers impaitent, etc... so it puzzles me as to
>> why it's so damn important to go 2mph faster than you were going before
>> you caught up to someone in the right lane?
> "Slow" is a relative term. I've already presented *lots* of studies
> that link higher speed with increased accident rates. It's real enough
> to me.
You didn't see you present any studies. I saw you paraphrase speed kills
propagada. It has as about as much weight to people in the know as the
stuff spouted by the typical bicycle helmet zealot does over in the
bicycling world.
2mph is damn important to you, but 20mph for someone else is tough shit.
I think I got you pegged. MFFY.
> But I drive a mixed agenda. I drive 138 miles each way most weekends
> during the summer in my 16 mpg Dodge half ton, V-8, 4WD pickup truck
> mostly on I-90, I-195 and Rt 146 (RI/MA). These are all divided
> highways. I try to save a little gas, which I can do at under 65 mph,
> but I also want to get to where I'm going or home again. Sometimes I
> might drive close to 75mph and just accept the 15mpg penalty.
Yeah, MFFY.
> I drive with cruise control and prefer to avoid tapping it on and off.
> I don't care if someone passes me (it seems some people do). I don't
> attempt to regulate other's speed. They can drive themselves into a
> tree if they want (hopefully not another car).
Cruise control on and too lazy to turn off another sign of MFFY.
> Nothing special at all.
Yep, garden variety unaware selfish MFFY driver in a big ass gas guzzling
light truck.
>> Just wait for a big enough gap to make your pass, if one never happens,
>> what's the big deal for paitent adult driver who believes slower speeds
>> are safer and morally superior to faster ones? It's only 2mph.
> I'm patient but within reason. I don't want to sit behind a semi doing
> 45 mph up a hill (flashers engaged) if I can pass him. That doesn't
> mean cutting anyone off, but it might mean someone coming up at high
> rate of speed may end up having to wait a bit.
You also suffer from invisible bus syndrome... Well I guess that comes
from not looking far enough ahead, which you already admitted.
> The active, legal speed limit is the arbiter of speed to my mind. As
> long as I'm doing the speed limit, no one has a right to complain I'm
> going too slow. If I'm doing 55 in the left lane, that's another
> issue.
I am sure you have your assholish behavior all reasoned out in your head.
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796965 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:10 |
|
In article <fqifqk$v3b$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>> I wait until I can change lanes and pass without causing problems for
>> other people going faster than I. Why is it such a problem for you?
> Waiting for other people is easy on a rural freeway, where one can
> easily see every vehicle and the gaps are big. On an urban freeway, the
> faster vehicle may not be in the left lane until the last minute, and
> may be screened from view by other vehicles.
I don't get out on to anything one could call a 'rural freeway' much
except when I go camping... and then if I am driving it's my friends big
ass econoline van... I rarely leave the right lane with that thing.
> The plus 2 mph pass is Brent P's words, not anyone else's.
See mr. 67mph cruise control passing someone doing 65.
>>> You need to stay on your own private roadway. You don't have
>>> the understanding to actually deal with driving a public road.
>> Seriously, you need to lay off this bullshit. I know how to deal with a
>> public road far better than you and the other asshats in this country who
>> see the highway as their passive-aggressive control freak playground.
> Projecting here?
I don't have people flashing me in the left lane.... You boys do.
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796967 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:17 |
|
In article <fqiguv$37g$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P? wrote:
>> In article <fqidmt$n0m$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>>> Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?
>>
>>> Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
>>> as the US?
>>
>> The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
>> far at anything close to average interstate speeds.
> Somehow, I almost always find a way to pass on the left. On a three lane
> road, there is almost always a way to get around a slow vehicle in the
> middle lane.
You must have like no traffic in your parts. Try the dan ryan or edens
expressways. Especially on edens on a sunday night northbound.... That's
when the WI drivers are heading home... they sit in the left most lane
and *NEVER* move over until the edens spur. It's justice when traffic
keeps them from getting right in time and they have to go up to lake-cook
road turn around, go south, exit, get back on going north, and then hit
the spur.
> Usually someone else will come along and give them the message. I am not
> in such a hurry that a few seconds will make any real difference.
So for you to live your left side passing only life, you have to rely on
the very drivers you consider assholes. Interesting....
>> You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
>> asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
>> out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
>> you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
>> or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
>> merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.
> How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?
Maybe you missed how I explained a typical traffic condition. the left
and middle lanes are blocked up with slow drivers... the mostly open lane
is the right one. It's actually moving faster... plus the best way to
merge is to be going faster than the traffic you are merging into. Brakes
are more powerful than the engine so it's easier to slow down at the last
moment to time a gap that has shifted than to accelerate further.
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796968 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:20 |
|
In article <bN3zj.521$Ie2.421 [at] trndny09>, Stephen Harding wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>> Believe it or not, much of the time I am in the bottom 50% speed wise.
>
> Color me surprised Brent!
>
>> Even when I drive the fastest I am willing to go, there are drivers going
>> faster. I don't drive faster than the ISP officers drive, but a good
>> number of people don't so restrict themselves.
>
> I don't doubt that. Here in MA I get a kick out of watching people
> passing Staties. *Some* don't seem intimidated at all.
>
> On the other hand, there are people suddenly going from 75 mph to
> 50 (well under the 65mph limit) when a Statie appears.
>
> Go figure.
Up to recently ISP officers typicalled cruised in the 85-95mph range
IME. Recently the one's I've seen have been in hunt mode or
uncharacteristically slow.
That said, there's nothing new in this thread for me and I'm done.
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796974 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:44 |
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Brent P? wrote:
> In article <fqievo$r9p$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Brent P? wrote:
>>> In article <4e8d2c3f-d188-42d5-904c-448f9d749865 [at] 34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Mar 3, 10:04 am, "DanK... [at] gmail.com" <DanK... [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 3, 9:50 am, Stephen Harding <smhardin... [at] msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "I wanna go faaaster. Get outta my waaay! I'm commin through!
>>>>>> <honk><honk><light_flash><light_flash>"
>>>>> Flash-to-pass is NOT "get outta my way", it's "excuse me,
>>>>> please move to the right". Have you ever been walking down a sidewalk
>>>>> and had a group of people blocking the whole thing, engrossed in their
>>>>> conversation or whathaveyou? In that situation, what would you do? I
>>>>> would say "excuse me", as I have in the past. That's the exact same
>>>>> thing as flash-to-pass.
>>>> The situation we've all experienced and are complaining about is not a
>>>> simple flash-to-pass. Instead, it's this:
>>>>
>>>> Approach from behind with at least 10 mph speed differential;
>>>>
>>>> Maintain that approach speed until within about ten feet of the car in
>>>> front;
>>>>
>>>> Begin flashing lights repeatedly, even though the car in front is
>>>> passing a truck at or slightly above the speed limit, or even though
>>>> the car in front is prevented from completing passing by yet another
>>>> car.
>>> I get it now.... Frank and the rest of them don't even notice there is
>>> someone behind them until that guy has been blocked for minutes and has a
>>> reached a significant frustration level and/or has escalated his attempts
>>> to wake them from their mindless stupor.
>>>
>>> If you actually saw them 'maintain speed until 10 feet off your bumper',
>>> that's behavior consistant with someone sliding in front of them going
>>> much slower. There is an expectation when you move in front of them, to
>>> accelerate. That's why he didn't brake, he was expecting you to
>>> accelerate. But you didn't. MFFY.
>>>
>> No, some people do the same maneuver when one is maintaining a steady
>> speed in the right lane. They are attempting to scare people by closing
>> so quickly because they are bullies.
>
> If you haven't moved into their path it's because they aren't
> particularly aware of their surroundings much of the time.
Unlikely in these cases. The brain dead ones are those who close on
light traffic rural freeways, and then let the person ahead of them
"drive" for them, even though there are half-mile or longer gaps in the
left lane traffic.
> Some are just assholes.
Yes, those are the ones I referred to in my original post. Sometimes
Usenet conversations go awry due to different parties putting different
interpretations on the same words.
> It has nothing to do with being a bully... bullies back away
> when they encounter someone who will stand up to them.
>
Indeed.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796976 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:50 |
|
Nate Nagel wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but
>>>>>>>> find it
>>>>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>>>>> explode.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>>>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>>>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>>>>> or traffic stops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane
>>>>> behind some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old
>>>>> guy in a Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>>>>
>>>>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're
>>>>> either just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or
>>>>> even worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or
>>>>> far enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in
>>>>> the seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do
>>>>> actively hold him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in
>>>>> the passing lane and that's the behavior he's come to expect from
>>>>> other motorists. If you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll
>>>>> be pleasantly surprised and might even acknowledge your courtesy
>>>>> with a wave as he passes. If you actively block him, you're just
>>>>> another of the rude and/or clueless masses that make everyday
>>>>> driving unpleasant.
>>>>>
>>>> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
>>>> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high
>>>> beams when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
>>> said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever
>>> had the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan
>>> where even the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion.
>>> (although lane discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison)
>>> So I have to ask, are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster?
>>> This would imply that you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer
>>> - say total length 70 feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or
>>> so, which isn't unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
>>>
>> I had this happen plenty of times in the Chicago area, and also in
>> Wisconsin (usually by people with Illinois plates). These are the
>> vehicles that are cutting back and forth from lane to lane, passing on
>> the left, center and right, and often without signaling lane changes.
>
> I've only driven in Chicago briefly, but again, never had that happen to
> me.
>
> Is there anywhere in the CONUS where drivers DO regularly signal lane
> changes? It seems to be an optional courtesy to most people, and most
> people don't seem to be courteous.
>
It is not too bad in the upper Midwest.
>> There are also the people that speed up to try to prevent others from
>> changing lanes as soon as they see a turn signal go on. Often, the two
>> are the same.
>
> That's when you suddenly have an attack of decreased peripheral vision,
> and can't see them anymore. NB: do NOT do this unless you are
> absolutely sure that you have an accurate mental picture of the road
> around you, the speeds and positions of all vehicles in the immediate
> vicinity, etc. etc. etc. In fact, it's probably a bad idea to do this
> at all.
>
That maneuver works well when you need to change lanes, e.g. getting
over to the right to exit or to the left when the right lane is ending
ahead. It can also be necessary to merge into heavy traffic.
> Also, if you set yourself up so that you have a clear, safe, legal space
> to change lanes into, simply put on your signal and go. Don't hesitate
> and give other drivers the opportunity to cut you off. It's sad that
> things have come to this, but people are basically bastard coated
> bastards with bastard filling. (obscure?)
>
Yes, another technique that is sometimes necessary in urban driving.
Things seemed a lot better 20 years ago, when the number of vehicles on
the roads were much fewer.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796978 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 05:54 |
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Brent P? wrote:
> In article <fqifqk$v3b$1 [at] registered.motzarella.org>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>>> I wait until I can change lanes and pass without causing problems for
>>> other people going faster than I. Why is it such a problem for you?
>
>> Waiting for other people is easy on a rural freeway, where one can
>> easily see every vehicle and the gaps are big. On an urban freeway, the
>> faster vehicle may not be in the left lane until the last minute, and
>> may be screened from view by other vehicles.
>
> I don't get out on to anything one could call a 'rural freeway' much
> except when I go camping... and then if I am driving it's my friends big
> ass econoline van... I rarely leave the right lane with that thing.
>
The delivery truck drivers seem to cut in and out of traffic in their
vans quite a bit.
On the other hand, when I drove a Class B truck, I would try to stay to
the right as much as possible to keep people out of my blind spot, and
made lane changes very slowly.
>> The plus 2 mph pass is Brent P's words, not anyone else's.
>
> See mr. 67mph cruise control passing someone doing 65.
>
I have had the issue when passing at 10+ mph speed differential - hardly
"micro passing".
>>>> You need to stay on your own private roadway. You don't have
>>>> the understanding to actually deal with driving a public road.
>
>>> Seriously, you need to lay off this bullshit. I know how to deal with a
>>> public road far better than you and the other asshats in this country who
>>> see the highway as their passive-aggressive control freak playground.
>
>> Projecting here?
>
> I don't have people flashing me in the left lane.... You boys do.
>
You must have good luck them. Or maybe the real jerks are driving on the
right-hand shoulder to pass.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796982 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 06:05 |
|
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:21:09 -0800 (PST), frkrygow [at] gmail.com wrote, in
part:
\
>
>Geez, guys! It's OK to trim the posts, you know!
>
>Bill Sornson isn't even reading this, so it won't confuse anyone!
Who?
--
zk
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #796999 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 13:00 |
|
In article <tDUyj.5902$Td2.1310 [at] trndny08>,
> But I have also had confirmed my beliefs that many basically
> good people do indeed become jerks once behind the wheel of
> their motor vehicle. The old saying about the "nut behind
> the wheel" seems confirmed.
>
> Nothing to get too bent out of shape over. Hey, it's only
> a NG (or two).
People complain about each other too much, and don't
acknowlege ourselves enough.
At where I work, the day-shift gripes about stuff the
afternoon shift does, and vice-verso. You can't win.
Everyboy has a beef/whine/gripe/compaint about the "others."
This whole idea that human society needs a pecking order
(promulgated by pecking-order enthusiasts) should be
swiftly eradicated.
There shouldn't be any lords. Especially on the
streets, roads & highways.
Drivers & cyclists complaining about eadh other is so
much like day-shift & afternoon shift at where I work
complaining about each other. Same ol' story, and
nothing gets resolved.
I guess nothing gets resolved on Usenet.
Oh, well.
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #797000 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 14:02 |
|
On Mar 3, 10:24 pm, Tom Sherman <sunsetss0... [at] REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> DanK... [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > [...]
> > I commute a minimum of 62 miles per day. Most of it is highway. I
> > don't exceed the posted limit by more than 5-7mph, and am usually 3-5
> > over. I often flash-to-pass. It means "please don't block this lane,
> > I intend to overtake you". People, however, interpret it as "Get the
> > hell out of my way", which is a mistake on their part. It's not
> > uncommon for someone I flash-to-pass to slam on the brakes and come
> > down to 20MPH under the limit in response to my polite double flash,
> > i.e. flash to pass. This can be problematic when I'm driving a pickup
> > truck with rear drum brakes and the car in front of me has 4 wheel
> > disks, ABS, and low-profile shoes that give great highway traction. I
> > am always at a safe distance when I flash, and yet I've had to
> > negotiate out of the highway and onto the shoulder on one occasion
> > fairly recently because my truck is simply no match for a new A4 in a
> > 65-0MPH deceleration race. So back to the analogy, I said "please let
> > me by" and the thug said "What? F*** you! You want a f***ing
> > problem? This is MY sidewalk. I ain't excusing sh**!!!
> > Unfortunately we were not on a sidewalk and I didn't have a chance to
> > exchange views face to face with that particular thug.
>
> If you can not stop when they do, you are not following at a safe
> distance. What if they were braking hard for a legitimate reason, e.g.
> part of a load falling off a truck, deer running into the road, another
> slower vehicle cutting them off?
In traffic it is impossible to leave enough distance for a drum-brake
pickup to stop in the same distance as a high-performance sports car.
If that large of a gap is left, it will be filled. If I manage to
avoid the collision the following distance was sufficient. When we're
coming down from 70ish to zero at absolute pedal-to-the-floor
deceleration there is going to be a variable in stopping distances.
Part of calculating the following distance in traffic is taking into
consideration the generous shoulder. I watch far ahead into traffic.
I've NEVER had any issue with stopping in time, regardless of my
vehicle, with the rare exception of some a-hole in a high-performance
car doing a 70-0 check in the middle of the passing lane for no reason
but to try to attempt to cause a collision.
> When I drive a one-ton pickup with a loaded trailer, or a 10 ton
medium
> duty truck, I leave a LOT more following space than I do when driving my
> car, and I drive a lot slower in traffic.
And when I drive a one-ton box truck, tow a trailer, or even drive my
compact truck in traffic I do the same. That's not what we're talking
about, we're talking about an a-hole with a high-performance sedan
attempting to cause a collision on purpose. I avoided the collision,
I did my part.
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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| Re: Saw an intelligent bicyclist today [message #797001 ] |
Tue, 04 March 2008 14:04 |
|
|
On Mar 3, 10:28=A0pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin... [at] msn.com> wrote: | |
|
